You're Picking the Wrong Ones

[ChatroomHero]

I notice I have heard this consistently throughout my life. The problem is, it's always in retrospect.

The people I meet and date are typically open and honest up front, they are not avoidant and initially handle things well. I don't know them until I get to know them.

I'll see them handle something stressful with a good attitude and handle it well. All the interactions for weeks or even months are positives. I will see them deal with personal difficulties in a good way. All indications will be they are a good choice...up until they are not a good choice. 

At some point it may become clear they are not a good fit or what they strongly presented was different than who they were deep down but by then you are hooked and it becomes an issue you really like them and want to be accepting that they are not perfect or you can work on something with them and get past it. Most of my new relationships aren't someone I know well and people don't always present their faults for weeks or months into dating.

So I guess the question is, how do you pick the "right ones" when you would have no idea until you are already invested and maybe in love? 

My only thought on it is I think going forward I have to work and probe deeper upfront to determine their attachment style in the beginning stages to see if we would be a fit. Even then, unless I tell them, here, take this test and let me know the results, I likely still wouldn't be able to tell because people present their best selves until they don't and by then it is probably too late to easily cut and run.

So how do you qualify the right ones versus the wrong ones? 

[Ray_xx]

54 minutes ago, ChatroomHero said:

I notice I have heard this consistently throughout my life. The problem is, it's always in retrospect.

The people I meet and date are typically open and honest up front, they are not avoidant and initially handle things well. I don't know them until I get to know them.

I'll see them handle something stressful with a good attitude and handle it well. All the interactions for weeks or even months are positives. I will see them deal with personal difficulties in a good way. All indications will be they are a good choice...up until they are not a good choice. 

At some point it may become clear they are not a good fit or what they strongly presented was different than who they were deep down but by then you are hooked and it becomes an issue you really like them and want to be accepting that they are not perfect or you can work on something with them and get past it. Most of my new relationships aren't someone I know well and people don't always present their faults for weeks or months into dating.

So I guess the question is, how do you pick the "right ones" when you would have no idea until you are already invested and maybe in love? 

My only thought on it is I think going forward I have to work and probe deeper upfront to determine their attachment style in the beginning stages to see if we would be a fit. Even then, unless I tell them, here, take this test and let me know the results, I likely still wouldn't be able to tell because people present their best selves until they don't and by then it is probably too late to easily cut and run.

So how do you qualify the right ones versus the wrong ones? 

I ask myself this every morning I wake up. I am a natural women, 32, caring, massive heart, good job and brought up in an amazing family and I still cannot meet a man. I know women who are absolute jokes who have children and partners and I am coming to the conclusion that until you meet that one hidden gold, people are just not good enough. I will not settle and would rather die old with 30 cats than settle for anyone who doesn't deserve me. Sounds like you are similar - you have yourself and until/if your gold comes to you, enjoy your life alone with family and friends. Best of luck

Edited September 14, 2023 by Ray_xx

[ChatroomHero]

6 minutes ago, Ray_xx said:

I ask myself this every morning I wake up. I am a natural women, 32, caring, massive heart, good job and brought up in an amazing family and I still cannot meet a man. I know women who are absolute jokes who have children and partners and I am coming to the conclusion that until you meet that one hidden gold, people are just not good enough. I will not settle and would rather die old with 30 cats than settle for anyone who doesn't deserve me. Sounds like you are similar - you have yourself and until/if your gold comes to you, enjoy your life alone with family and friends. Best of luck

I'll say this, I know my strengths and weaknesses and flaws and being a good BF is one of my strengths.

I am laid back and easy going and open to most anything, not too laid back though. I am not passive aggressive, I apologize when I am wrong. I make decent money. I am down to do anything they are into even if it's not my thing. I don't go and complain, I go because it's something that makes them happy and they need someone to go with that doesn't crap all over it. I don't shower with gifts but like to occasionally surprise them with things they like. I make myself available but also have my own things going on. My last gf was really sick and in bed for 3 days and talked about being hungry but not being able to go out so she would just sleep and send her kid out for something when he got home, so I bought this awesome soup and bread and left it on her doorstep and texted her after so I didn't bother her. There were activities she wanted to do and family events and was like, if you don't want to do it, that's fine...and I wanted to do them because I wanted to spend time with her. I am not needy but I am not afraid to be intimate or close either. 

What's messed up is it seems appreciated and I hear comments from outside people like, wow, you guys are perfect together and I have never seen her so happy. To me, that's the death knell. I have had 3 major relationships in the last 15 years where I heard from different 3rd parties that they had never seen her so happy, she constantly talks about me and they were glad she found someone that made her really happy. Nothing changes and nothing major happens and with all 3, the longest was about 3 weeks before they stopped communicating and said, "We're just not a fit and we're not on the same page". One of them said she wanted to go to the next level, I said I'm ok with it and 2 days later she literally stopped texting/responding to me. She works at a bar I go to sometimes and I see her now and again and she looks past me like I'm a stranger and doesn't even say hello or acknowledge me.

The only thing I found is I think they have an opposite attachment style. I am Anxious and they were Avoidant. I think ultimately we would not ever really mix. I am not Anxious in the relationship normally and take it as it comes but when they actually deactivate and pull back, my style pushes them away and I do get really Anxious and frustrated. For me it's hard because I hear of a lot of people in this situation the partner comes backs and leaves repeatedly, at this point I would even take that as validation but with me it goes from everything is great to them saying I meant nothing to them and making it clear that I don't exist in their world anymore. It is devastating. I would say at least 2 of the 3 were extreme Avoidant.

I just don't know how to "pick them" when even looking back very critically and asking others if they saw anything the weeks or months leading up to that point and there were no clues. It goes from her saying on Saturday, "I am going to buy these concert tickets for us if you want to go..." to Sunday I text to ask if she was able to get them and I don't hear anything until Tuesday when I get a text saying, "we are not a good fit" and she will refuse any further explanation. I know they are Avoidant because in each case I would offer multiple ways to end it amicably and in a light way, saying we were nice to each other let's just end it in a nice way and say goodbye and they will agree and then cancel.

To me it would be weird but I am almost considering anyone I have more than one date with saying, take the test to determine your attachment style and if they are Avoidant, bailing. I just don't know how to "pick them" when you don't know what you are picking until you are fairly invested.

[d0nnivain]

Part of it is to not get invested that early.  In the beginning try not to be invested in a future farther out than you have been together. 

The 1st meet is only to qualify them as worth spending 3-4 hours on an actual date. 

The 1st date is to determine if having a second date is worth it.  

After a month of dating you can plan something for the next month but don't be thinking this means you have a date for New Years' Eve or Valentine's Day unless those holidays are less than 30 days away.  

Until you have made it to 1 year, don't assume they are going to be there next year.  

 

If exclusivity is important to you, talk about it before you hit the sheets.  Don't treat a new SO like a therapist & run from anybody who tries to turn you into their therapist.  Also don't expect the same level of reliability from a new SO (under a year) as you would from a LTR or spouse.  

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, ChatroomHero said:

You're Picking the Wrong Ones

Agree it sounds like a hindsight is 20/20 type of sentiment.  There's people you're compatible with...or not. 

Screening for red flags and major deal breakers is important, but even if that is ruled out there's still chemistry, how well you get along and getting to know more about them.

So it's somewhat of a catch-22. You don't know it's the wrong person until after you're involved. 

Of course there's the obvious red flags, addiction, in another relationship, unstable, etc. but a lot of simple incompatibilities don't really have to do with red flags and deal breakers.

[mark clemson]

1 hour ago, ChatroomHero said:

I am Anxious and they were Avoidant.

To me it would be weird but I am almost considering anyone I have more than one date with saying, take the test to determine your attachment style

Interesting. Don't do that, but instead perhaps try to pick up on the more subtle cues they are avoidant.

I agree this is tricky and perhaps you've simply had the bad luck to draw a string of such folks. However, the common denominator in your relationships is ultimately you, so perhaps you need to take a step back and question what is drawing you to a person. It's not a good place to be in to second guess yourself, but it sounds like in your specific case it might be the right thing to do?

It's also true that people tend to be more "great" and lovey-dovey during the initial bonding phases of a relationship and "truer colors" tend to come out later. So no doubt there is some of that going on.

Possibly you could "administer" this personality test not during the first few dates, but a bit later and couch it more as a casual/fun "learning more about each other and how we interact" bonding thing? "I like personality quizzes, etc." It's true that they CAN be fun and a bonding experience, AND you could also take note of any strongly "avoidant" results IF those come up. You don't have to make a big deal out of it, or use it as a litmus test either, but perhaps it might provide you with helpful info.

[ChatroomHero]

13 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

Interesting. Don't do that, but instead perhaps try to pick up on the more subtle cues they are avoidant.

I agree this is tricky and perhaps you've simply had the bad luck to draw a string of such folks. However, the common denominator in your relationships is ultimately you, so perhaps you need to take a step back and question what is drawing you to a person. It's not a good place to be in to second guess yourself, but it sounds like in your specific case it might be the right thing to do?

It's also true that people tend to be more "great" and lovey-dovey during the initial bonding phases of a relationship and "truer colors" tend to come out later. So no doubt there is some of that going on.

Possibly you could "administer" this personality test not during the first few dates, but a bit later and couch it more as a casual/fun "learning more about each other and how we interact" bonding thing? "I like personality quizzes, etc." It's true that they CAN be fun and a bonding experience, AND you could also take note of any strongly "avoidant" results IF those come up. You don't have to make a big deal out of it, or use it as a litmus test either, but perhaps it might provide you with helpful info.

I agree. What's interesting is the last one wasn't really like anyone else I have dated. I maybe gravitate towards strong independents women but I have found the ones that seem strong, underneath have a lot of issues and they turn out to be almost the opposite of strong. But maybe presenting as strong and independent might signal avoidant, I don't know.

I think the biggest problem may be that I am pretty even keel. I have noticed a few reactions because I generally stay pretty calm in stressful situations. I am pretty ok (outside of relationships) accepting things that I can't control. Like of someone is aggressive and wants to fight, I don't encourage it and I don't really back off. If they want to start, I'll oblige if it can be defused, it would be for the best. There will be situations where the woman thinks something will bother me or I wouldn't like it and they find it odd I just don't think it's anything to lose sleep over. So when it comes to relationship arguments or fights, they pretty much don't happen with me and GF's during the initial stages so I can't see how they react or handle things. 

[Alpacalia]

Attachment styles can be all over the place.

If you are secure, then the best choice for you would be someone with a secure attachment style that also has the capacity to empathize and communicate well. If you are anxious, a secure attachment may be the best option.

Anxious attachment 'typically' looks for someone with an avoidant attachment style, which isn't really the healthiest. So I would say work on your own attachment style to try to get to a more secure-style attachment. There is a tendency to want to fix those with an avoidant attachment style because they seem like they need it, but this often leads to poor long-term and healthy relationships.

Try not to be overly fixated on pinpointing someone's attachment style.

Isn't a successful relationship about more than just that? Things like humor, communication style, and how they connect with others matter too. Remember, attachment style is just one piece of the puzzle. Different relationships can bring out the best in various attachment styles. Plus, if you model healthy behavior, it could inspire someone with a different style to adapt and grow in how they interact. Of course, you have to have the same life values, wants, needs, etc., in order to really be compatible.

And these are things you should be discussing in the get-to-know-you phase of the relationship.

It's not just about meeting specific criteria; it's about finding a genuine connection and someone with whom you can grow. While there are no guarantees, prioritizing what matters to you helps in finding the right fit. Finding someone you can work with, even with some differences, is good.

Take your time getting to know the person you're into. Watch how they handle challenges and stress, and really dig deep to understand who they are. Check if they meet your core needs, make you feel safe, and if you can talk and connect with them.

Look, you're never going to be able to devise a mathematical equation or a surefire way to pick the “right ones.” That’s part of the mystery of romance and the process of getting to know someone and learning to trust them. That doesn't mean you shouldn't exercise caution. There are ways that you can improve your chances of choosing the “right ones.” First, recognize the red flags. If someone is being overly pushy, abusive, or controlling, these are major warning signs that you should move on. Additionally, take your time getting to know someone. Don’t rush into a relationship. Spend time together, get to know each other’s likes and dislikes, and talk about what matters to you both. Finally, trust your gut. If you feel uneasy about something, don’t ignore it. If you talk it out honestly and still feel uneasy, it may be a sign that this person isn't right for you.

 

[ChatroomHero]

1 hour ago, d0nnivain said:

Part of it is to not get invested that early.  In the beginning try not to be invested in a future farther out than you have been together. 

The 1st meet is only to qualify them as worth spending 3-4 hours on an actual date. 

The 1st date is to determine if having a second date is worth it.  

After a month of dating you can plan something for the next month but don't be thinking this means you have a date for New Years' Eve or Valentine's Day unless those holidays are less than 30 days away.  

Until you have made it to 1 year, don't assume they are going to be there next year.  

 

If exclusivity is important to you, talk about it before you hit the sheets.  Don't treat a new SO like a therapist & run from anybody who tries to turn you into their therapist.  Also don't expect the same level of reliability from a new SO (under a year) as you would from a LTR or spouse.  

All good points. I generally don't bring up exclusivity until at least 6 weeks in, I don't know that I've ever pushed for it first. I think it has always naturally come up, usually with clues from them.

I don't really plan much beyond a week with new dates. After a couple of months if there is a concert or something, I really won't buy a ticket more than a week or two ahead of time. In the back of my mind it's still pretty new and frankly I am a little adverse to planning anything further than that with someone I know could be seeing someone else.

I do find they plan much further out than I do. I used to take that as a good sign they are thinking we will be together then but experience has taught me it means little or nothing, just that they are either ok at that point or not fully checked out.

The last part is good advice. 

I will say I do get emotionally invested probably a little early but I am also very in tuned to validation queues being anxious attachment. I think maybe I put too much stock in them. It's like, she said, "I love you"...so I think, "She loves me. Awesome"...but an avoidant may not mean it in the same way or as deeply as I take it.

[basil67]

7 hours ago, ChatroomHero said:

I am not Anxious in the relationship normally and take it as it comes but when they actually deactivate and pull back, my style pushes them away and I do get really Anxious and frustrated.

I think you're getting too bogged down in attachment styles...so much so that you're seeing problems with regular behaviour.    For example, what you describe about getting anxious when someone pulls back is completely normal.  The only person who wouldn't get a bit frustrated and/or anxious is someone who doesn't care that much.   The same with labelling partners avoidant.  It could just be that they just don't care enough to get bogged down in discussion....or they just aren't that into you.

5 hours ago, ChatroomHero said:

I agree. What's interesting is the last one wasn't really like anyone else I have dated. I maybe gravitate towards strong independents women but I have found the ones that seem strong, underneath have a lot of issues and they turn out to be almost the opposite of strong. But maybe presenting as strong and independent might signal avoidant, I don't know.

Again, too much attachment styles.  Perhaps you simply don't need your hand held.  I can't see why this would signal 'avoidant'.

Quote

I think the biggest problem may be that I am pretty even keel. I have noticed a few reactions because I generally stay pretty calm in stressful situations. I am pretty ok (outside of relationships) accepting things that I can't control. Like of someone is aggressive and wants to fight, I don't encourage it and I don't really back off. If they want to start, I'll oblige if it can be defused, it would be for the best. There will be situations where the woman thinks something will bother me or I wouldn't like it and they find it odd I just don't think it's anything to lose sleep over. So when it comes to relationship arguments or fights, they pretty much don't happen with me and GF's during the initial stages so I can't see how they react or handle things. 

You've pretty much described my husband so I can't see why any of this is a problem.    However, you can see how a woman handles issues by watching how she deals when things go wrong with everyday stuff.  A lost purse. A friendship which has problems.  Problems at work.  An online purchase gone wrong.  My husband felt comfortable with me because I was still sorting out a separation when we met.  He saw me not getting bent out of shape when ex was being pushy about the money split.   I mean, what's a few thousand dollar loss in the grand scheme of things??  I'd rather lose the money than fight about it.

Edited September 15, 2023 by basil67

[Lotsgoingon]

If you can't look back and see red flags in your problematic past relationships, then you haven't turned on your critical brain.

I can look back at close friends and see issues and problems and these are people I love. I can identify my own red flags and problems, things the other person should have noticed about me. You're not being critical enough. 

I don't buy all the attachment lingo for reasons I don't need to go into here. But you say you're anxious. Actually the times you feel anxious can be the red flag that you're missing. There is excitement anxiety, butterflies, when we meet someone new we really like. But pretty soon, there should be calm and a feeling of peace and security with this person, even if you're an anxious person, whatever that means.

My bet is you are ignoring the anxiousness, which may be your body's way of signaling that this person isn't right for you or the relationship is not feeling safe to you. 

 

 

 

[ShyViolet]

None of us have a crystal ball.  You can't know whether someone is the "right" person when you've just started dating them.  That's not how dating works.  

It always takes quite some time of dating someone before you know whether they are "right" for you.  Dating is a process of getting to know someone and finding out whether you are compatible for a longer term relationship.

If you date someone for a short time and they turn out not to be the right one, that's not a sign that you failed.  It's ok.  It's literally just the process of dating.  You meet a lot of people, and most of them will be wrong for you.  You have to know how to navigate it.

11 hours ago, ChatroomHero said:

At some point it may become clear they are not a good fit or what they strongly presented was different than who they were deep down but by then you are hooked and it becomes an issue you really like them and want to be accepting

It sounds like maybe this is your problem.  You need to bail when red flags present themselves and not ignore them.  No, you are not "hooked", you always have a choice and should be making decisions with your rational brain.  Don't stay in relationships when signs present themselves that you are not compatible with the person.

[Weezy1973]

Usually the things that attract us to someone have little to do with them being a good long term partner. I’m fairly certain that more dysfunctional relationships start with intense attraction than begin with lukewarm attraction that grows over time. 
 

When I look objectively at my most dysfunctional relationships,  my main problem was ignoring flags that were there early, but I ignored them because I was so caught up in the early stage relationship drug. 

[ChatroomHero]

10 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Usually the things that attract us to someone have little to do with them being a good long term partner. I’m fairly certain that more dysfunctional relationships start with intense attraction than begin with lukewarm attraction that grows over time. 
 

When I look objectively at my most dysfunctional relationships,  my main problem was ignoring flags that were there early, but I ignored them because I was so caught up in the early stage relationship drug. 

That's valid, but I would say for me at least, my last few relationships I grew and I was aware of not putting red flags in the back seat to attraction. There were some women where I was highly attracted and they were nice and pleasant but there were little red flags that I could see becoming and issue. I wouldn't say I lost attraction but I lost the desire to pursue. I tried not to be too critical but when I honestly thought about it, I felt their situation wouldn't be a good fit. I might have been wrong but over the years it finally stuck that attraction is just attraction and compatibility is filter 1 and attraction filter 2. Seems obvious now but took me a long time to realize intense attraction won't overcome incompatibility. 

[mark clemson]

20 hours ago, ChatroomHero said:

I think the biggest problem may be that I am pretty even keel.

So when it comes to relationship arguments or fights, they pretty much don't happen with me and GF's during the initial stages so I can't see how they react or handle things. 

I think it's probably positive that you're "even keel" - I think that is a positive for many women and so (statistically speaking) a plus.

Possibly, some women who are "higher maintenance," or avoidant, in particular gravitate towards that as well, dunno?

I think you'll have to try to look for subtler cues wrt how things are likely to play out. Don't overreact, but perhaps pay attention to "warning signs"?

One possibility, is that these women treated you nicely, etc, but perhaps then realized you weren't "the one" for them - and so at that point decided to "cut bait". Dunno, and certainly avoidant attachment could be part of that, but it's something to consider.

There are also some folks who simply go through life with a series of medium term relationships that they eventually end (for whatever psychological and personal reasons) and don't stay long term. So if you've hit a string of those "by chance" - that may simply be how things have played out (although it's certainly unfortunate for you if you were hoping for longer term).

The truth is relationships can be tough in some ways and staying together long-term just doesn't always happen as the two people might have hoped.

[Lotsgoingon]

Your "even keel" sounds like you are passive and withdrawn.  I have a close buddy I consider "even keel" and he's quite demanding and funny and quirky, reacts to what people say. He just doesn't go all the way up or all the way down, but he's not sitting there ignoring problems around him. 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Lotsgoingon

[Acacia98]

On 9/14/2023 at 6:50 PM, ChatroomHero said:

I'll see them handle something stressful with a good attitude and handle it well. All the interactions for weeks or even months are positives. I will see them deal with personal difficulties in a good way. All indications will be they are a good choice...up until they are not a good choice. 

At some point it may become clear they are not a good fit or what they strongly presented was different than who they were deep down but by then you are hooked and it becomes an issue you really like them and want to be accepting that they are not perfect or you can work on something with them and get past it. Most of my new relationships aren't someone I know well and people don't always present their faults for weeks or months into dating.

So I guess the question is, how do you pick the "right ones" when you would have no idea until you are already invested and maybe in love? 

One thing you could do is take the opportunity to look back on old relationships that didn't work out and remember the reasons why they failed. Then ask yourself if, in hindsight, there were earlier signs of those issues that you missed. Once you learn to recognize those earlier signs, you will be halfway towards solving your problem.

The other thing you could do is take things more slowly. For instance, date someone for at least a year before you decide that they are the one. 

[Wiseman2]

On 9/14/2023 at 3:04 PM, ChatroomHero said:

 You're Picking the Wrong Ones

Sometimes after a breakup, friends don't know what to say to console you so they come up with statements like these. You really don't know who's right or wrong for you before you get to know them.