Learn to make friends before starting a family?

[BelieveInHumans]

Hello everyone, I'm new here.  And could use some advice.  Here's the short version of my question:

If I want to make a family with wife and children, I need to find a girlfriend.  If want to find a girlfriend, I need to learn how to make friends.  So it is mandatory that I create a plan or seek professional help on how to create healthy relationships with other adult humans as the first and most critical step.  Do you all agree?  And if so, can anyone suggest strategies, tactics, routines etc... that are worth trying?

 

If it helps, here is more background:

I'm approaching my mid-40s.  People describe me as a workaholic, but I don't agree with them, since I really like my work.  I'm a software engineer and I've been running my own technology consulting practice for 20 years.  I don't have any friends. I had one relationship with a young lady that started when I was 37 years old and ended when I was 39 years old.

My goal is to quickly find a wife and start a family.  People say I'm very good with children.  I was hoping that if I had a family, I could have children that are my own so that I can share a life with them.  With children, I feel like I'm "being myself"....I get along with almost any of them because I have a three specialized interests that span three very different categories.

Interest 1 - physical : For the rough and tumble, I let them go in my boxing ring and we fight (I have 40 years training in Boxing, Wushu and BJJ - I taught a long time in Boxing and Wushu and competed world wide).

Interest 2 - musical : For the musical, we form a band or I teach them guitar or piano.  I've been learning guitar the past 3 years on my own, and some professional musicians I seek guidance from say I have demonstrate skills closer to someone who's been practicing for 6 years (but of course, there are some bad habits since I never had an instructor).
 

Interest 3 - intellectual : For the intellectual kids, I teach them how to build robots, do experiments in my chemistry lab, program video games or make websites etc... sometimes I hire the teenagers in my business.

And finally, if all else fails, we watch my favourite TV shows like Avatar the Last Air Bender, Legend of Korra, Naruto, Attack on Titan, Death Note etc...So in short, I love being around children and teenagers because they share the same intense passion for my interests as me.  They're always looking at the world with excitement, as if everything is "brand new", which is how I see everything.

The problem however is that I have trouble relating to adult humans.

In the work place, I'm very focused. I don't like small talk...I feel anxiety any time people talk about things not directly related to the task at hand, because it's wasting my client's money  (I wouldn't be surprised if I have some kind of mental disorder associated with being extremely focused, or scarcity mindset because of the family I grew up in). So that's probably why I have difficulty making "deep connections" in the work place.

Outside of the work place, I still have trouble relating to other adult humans. I don't share any common interests with adults...They usually talk about things like drinking alcohol, mortgages, bank interests, marriage life (often contemplating divorces), relationship issues (good or bad), debt, traveling, finding a better job, house prices, good restaurants, movies, netflix.  People think I'm a very good listener...but in actuality, I just know how to ask good questions because of my experience hosting a lot of interviews for podcasts/online shows, so I know how to keep a conversation going and let people talk about themselves.

Last year, I spent a lot of time attending various social groups for music, outdoor walks, debates, etc...  It was very exhausting...When I talk to people, I'm always in the mode: "be an interviewer and ask good questions" to keep the conversation going.  It's very draining.

When I'm not working, I make content for my youtube channels. I make educational content for boxing on my boxing channel,  musical compositions for my music channel, and robotics/software for my technology channel.  My youtube channels don't have many subscribers, but I like making youtube content because it's very relaxing when I'm "making something".

When other adults talk to me about the subject matters I'm interested in like boxing, engineering or guitar related topics...it doesn't last long.  I think it's because my knowledge in these areas is so "deep", that for adults to ask my superficial questions like, "Can you play metallica , or can mike tyson beat muhammad ali, or do you think chatgpt will replace engineers?", I usually give them same answers I've given to countless other people ...During these conversations, I'm always thinking, "These people don't really care, they just want to be polite by making small talk."  If I talk too deeply of any subject, people lose interest and everything goes over them.   (I feel children have a much longer attention span than adults...children will keep asking why and keep asking for more demonstrations....children are the only ones who sometimes show more endurance and energy than me when it comes to learning and asking questions.  When children lose focus on a conversation, it's ok for me to reign them back in on the subject at hand.  Adults on the other hand lose interest quickly, and it would be impolite or awkward for me to reign them back , because then they'd feel like it were a board meeting and everything feels like work, which is not conducive to a casual atmosphere).

So coming back to my original question.....If I can't make friends with adult humans, then there's no chance in this universe that I will be able to find a wife.  Therefore, I need to prioritize understanding adult humans and befriending them.  Does this seem correct to everyone?  And if so, I welcome any suggestions on what to try. Maybe I need to hire professional help?

Edited October 3, 2023 by BelieveInHumans
grammar and spelling

[MsJayne]

Maybe consider counselling to explore why you don't attract friends. If you're doing something that makes other people disengage from you a counsellor can help you figure out what it is and how to change it. Example, (and I'm not saying this is what it is), you might believe you're sharing really interesting stuff but your extensive knowledge might not be that riveting to others. Also, if you really do think it's possible you may have a mental issue, a counsellor can point you in the direction of finding out if that's actually the case. Maybe try dating apps to meet women. You might not meet your future wife but you could get in some practice at engaging on a deeper level than just sharing your knowledge of various subjects. As you say, most people like to talk about life, and you may find it to be tedious small talk but that's how people connect on an emotional level, a shared moan or a shared laugh creates a bond between people. 

[Els]

It's not just about finding a wife (although finding a partner who also wants biological kids is obviously going to be a necessity, especially if you're a cis male who won't/can't get a surrogate), it's also about the fact that your children won't stay children forever. And if you can't relate to ANY adults, then you are obviously missing social skills that will be necessary to maintain relationships with your children when they get older. Many people have strained relationships with their parents because of this - the parents wanted a child, but somehow didn't realize that the child would grow up, and couldn't/weren't willing to make the necessary adjustments to let go and foster a healthy relationship of equals with their adult children. My relationship with my parents, in fact, is the precise embodiment of this.

That being said, I can identify with your dislike for small talk. I don't think that the solution is to have MORE small talk, but rather to figure out why none of your acquaintances have ever gotten past the small talk stage. Most people are able to eventually develop friendships or relationships that they aren't just stuck at making small talk with all the time. I agree with the suggestion of therapy.

Edited October 3, 2023 by Els

[BelieveInHumans]

6 minutes ago, MsJayne said:

Maybe consider counselling to explore why you don't attract friends. If you're doing something that makes other people disengage from you a counsellor can help you figure out what it is and how to change it. Example, (and I'm not saying this is what it is), you might believe you're sharing really interesting stuff but your extensive knowledge might not be that riveting to others. Also, if you really do think it's possible you may have a mental issue, a counsellor can point you in the direction of finding out if that's actually the case. Maybe try dating apps to meet women. You might not meet your future wife but you could get in some practice at engaging on a deeper level than just sharing your knowledge of various subjects. As you say, most people like to talk about life, and you may find it to be tedious small talk but that's how people connect on an emotional level, a shared moan or a shared laugh creates a bond between people. 

Thank you.  Is there a type of counsellor I should try to seek?

I have a client that works as a counsellor that needed my help building something. So then I tried hiring her for a few sessions, but I feel like she doesn't understand where I'm coming from.  I know I'm a very "robotic" and rational person, where as the counsellor was trying to explain things to me with "ideals" and "feelings", which I understand conceptually, but I'm unable to internalize.  Is this the way therapy sessions are suposed to work?  Or what am I looking for in a therapist or counsellor?

I tried online dating a few years ago.  I remember I went on about 20 dates through the app.  What I learn was that the women I was meeting felt like every other adult human I run into of any gender.  That is, I am an interviewer asking good questions to keep the conversation going and let the other party tell their story.  It was very tiring.  So that's when I noticed that my problems with women are probably rooted in a larger issue...which I just unable to establish meaningful conenctions with adults in general.

[basil67]

Before I start, 'adult humans' isn't the way to describe our peers.  It sounds really weird.  Try switching that phrase to 'people'   As in "I have trouble relating to other people"

It seems like you're really smart guy who has a load of interesting skillsets but you struggle with basic social interactions.  I'd look for a psychologist who works with adults who are on the autism spectrum.  I'm not diagnosing you, but their skillset would be what you need...they have the knowledge to teach all those unwritten rules for when we interact with other people

 

[BelieveInHumans]

8 minutes ago, Els said:

It's not just about finding a wife (although finding a partner who also wants biological kids is obviously going to be a necessity, especially if you're a cis male who won't/can't get a surrogate), it's also about the fact that your children won't stay children forever. And if you can't relate to ANY adults, then you are obviously missing social skills that will be necessary to maintain relationships with your children when they get older. Many people have strained relationships with their parents because of this - the parents wanted a child, but somehow didn't realize that the child would grow up, and couldn't/weren't willing to make the necessary adjustments to let go and foster a healthy relationship of equals with their adult children. My relationship with my parents, in fact, is the precise embodiment of this.

That being said, I can identify with your dislike for small talk. I don't think that the solution is to have MORE small talk, but rather to figure out why none of your acquaintances have ever gotten past the small talk stage. Most people are able to eventually develop friendships or relationships that they aren't just stuck at making small talk with all the time. I agree with the suggestion of therapy.

Thanks for your insight.  A few years ago, I told myself I probably don't have any business being a parent if I can't raise a child in a healthy way. The child will eventually interact with other adults.  If I can't lead by example, and show I can have healthy relationships with other adults, then I risk passing on that disability to the child.

If I don't put in the work to find a wife, or learn how romantic relationships work, then I risk passing down that disability to my child.

If I can't prove that I can put in the work to create meaningful relationships with adults, then I will not be setting a good example for the next generation.

[BelieveInHumans]

9 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Before I start, 'adult humans' isn't the way to describe our peers.  It sounds really weird.  Try switching that phrase to 'people'   As in "I have trouble relating to other people"

It seems like you're really smart guy who has a load of interesting skillsets but you struggle with basic social interactions.  I'd look for a psychologist who works with adults who are on the autism spectrum.  I'm not diagnosing you, but their skillset would be what you need...they have the knowledge to teach all those unwritten rules for when we interact with other people

 

OK got it!  Some people say I act autistic, but I never took their remarks seriously.  But maybe I shouldn't dismiss it so quickly.  I'll try speaking with psychologist with experience working with autistic adults.  Thank you!

[d0nnivain]

I agree that you are most likely on the spectrum.  That is why logic, reasoning & computer engineering stuff makes sense to you but people don't.   You are going to need counseling to teach you skills that you don't have that you should have developed in childhood.  In your language, there is a whole section of code missing from your programming.   I think once you find the right counselor you should be able to move forward.  

Good luck.  

[MsJayne]

On 10/3/2023 at 7:31 PM, BelieveInHumans said:

Thank you.  Is there a type of counsellor I should try to seek?

The way you describe your problem reminds me of the son of a friend of mine, he has Aspergers Syndrome. He's highly intelligent, but is unable to relate to other people on an emotional level, and sometimes the extent of his knowledge, and how involved he gets when talking about things, can be a little overwhelming . I'm unsure of the diagnostic criteria, but you can do self-tests online, see link below, and if you rate highly on it the best way forward might be to consult with your GP, and they should be able to refer you to the most appropriate service. You can also do a Google search of consulting psychologists in your area and check their website profile to see what they specialise in and just make your own appointment.

https://www.autism360.com/aspergers-test-for-adults-aspie-quiz-for-children/#start

[BelieveInHumans]

@MsJayne @d0nnivain

Thanks for your insight. I took the survey and it says thinks I have 50% chance of being on the ASD spectrum.  So i'll see what the professionals say!
 

I have a feeling that the professionals will say something like, "You're not autistic.  You're just working hard to dislike adults because of your childhood experiences.  In your childhood, you decided that when adults can not regulate their emotions in critical situations, it causes dysfunctional families -- alcoholism, financial distress, physical abuse, verbal abuse etc....  You then overgeneralized the situation to think that ALL emotions are evil, especially when adults in positions of responsibility act based on impulse and the results cause harm to you and people around you.  Because even as a child, you foresaw the negative outcomes based on a cold objective analysis, you oversimplified and concluded that emotions are always evil, and you worked hard to be as emotionless as possible for the rest of your life.  You think doing what is right vs. doing what feels good are always at odds, and you think humans can't set aside their emotions to do what you think is right because you have some holier-than-thou complex.  You take it even further by creating the fantasy that you define yourself as not human, because you think you've transcended the need for emotions, and you smuggly classify any emotional organism as human as lesser things.  The solution is to stop thinking you're better than everyone.  Emotions, like everything else in this world, are neither good or bad.  It all depends on how you use your emotions.  You should find ways to resolve your misanthropy.  Your disdain for humanity needs to stop.  You need to grow up."

 

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by BelieveInHumans

[Els]

1 hour ago, BelieveInHumans said:

I have a feeling that the professionals will say something like

But have you TALKED to a professional about this before? If you haven't, how do you know what they'll say?

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, BelieveInHumans said:

@MsJayne @d0nnivain
I have a feeling that the professionals will say something like, "You're not autistic.  

All you need to do is see your physician for an evaluation of your physical and mental health and ask for a referral to a neurologist and qualified therapist for ongoing support. There a many things that could cause the way you feel. From neurological to psychiatric to other physical issues.

You can not diagnose yourself online. As far as being unable to relate to people, a therapist could help you with that.

The purpose of marriage and family is not to create playmates because you have difficulty relating to adults.

If you are good with children you could volunteer, coach, teach, be a mentor, big brother or someone other form of relating to children in a productive manner.

[BelieveInHumans]

@Wiseman2@Els

Yup, i will see a few more professionals.

ON the subject of being volunteer, coach, mentor etc... I've been doing this for a long time.  And the thing that disappoints me the most is whatever I try to teach, it is always UNDONE by the family.  I say one thing, but their family and parents teach another.  As I get older, I get more cynical, and think it's all for nothing.  Out of all these years, the most impressionable story is about one young friend I tried to help named George (name has been anonymized).  I'll post the longer version of the story below to show how little influence I have compared to actual parents...but the short version of the story is I was teaching George how to take better care of his body, but his parents came from a completely different generation of thinking that was in conflict with my teachings.  And george ultimately succumbs to the pressure of the parents instead of me.  Stories like these happen again whether it's young people I've groomed to be in my company, or people I took under my wing as part of my combat team, etc... 

I thought maybe if I had my own children and as a parent, I could share things that might have greater chance of sticking for a longer time!

----- Longer version of the George story for entertainment purposes (originally published sometime in the 1990s)

I tried to help a family friend named George who is 15 years old. George was diagnosed with gout, which might have been caused by his #unhealthy life style (#sedentary, non-stop video gaming, non-stop binging on junk food, and surplus amounts of canned and processed meats). George is 5'8" and weighed about 250lbs.

George's mom, whom I call Aunty, came to me and asked me to train George in martial arts to get him in shape, so that he wouldn't play so many video games and so that he wouldn't sleep until noon every day in the summer. So I took George on as a student.

I tried to #teach George discipline and the importance of eating a well balanced #diet. But George didn't see any progress after a few months and he was disappointed.

One evening, I had dinner with George and his family. Aunty made instant ramen. Aunty doubled all the prepackaged seasoning, added a lot more salt and added a lot more pepper. She also added large portions of spam and other canned meats. Everything was extremely flavorful. George ate the noodles and the meats, but he and his sister didn't drink much of the soup. And that's when Aunty said in her ethnic language, "Make sure you drink all the soup! It is healthy for you because it has #nutrients! When we were in Vietnam, people will kill each for the food. So eat everything! And then make sure you drink the Gatorade (a sports drink) in the fridge because it will give you energy! I bought 20 cases from Walmart during a sale, but they will expire soon, so we have to finish it." Aunty is a very strong lady, so one can challenge her, except me because she uses me as role model for her children. I tried to #educate Aunty on the harm of too much sodium, too much sugar, and too much processed/preserved meats. Aunty nodded her head in agreement, as if everything I said were gold. But when it came time to prepare the next meal, she resorted to her usual ways. Aunty was not able to retain any of the #knowledge I gave her...

Aunty and her husband fled Vietnam during the civil war. Neither of them attended #school. Neither of them speak English very well. They arrived in Canada as refugees back in the 70s. Aunty still has nightmares of people drowning to death beneath the decks of the boat she escaped on.

So...whatever I try to teach George about #health and #nutrition, it's completely undone by Aunty. And whatever I try to teach Aunty about health and nutrition, it's completely undone by the horrors of the 20th century. How do I prevent the #vietnamwar from happening so we can start over?

#education #training #exercise #generationaltrauma

Edited October 4, 2023 by BelieveInHumans

[Wiseman2]

11 minutes ago, BelieveInHumans said:

@Wiseman2@Els
young people I've groomed to be in my company, or people I took under my wing as part of my combat team, etc...

If you are going to coach or mentor children you need boundaries. You don't "groom" young people to be your play friends. You should never undermine parental authority with children.  

[BelieveInHumans]

SOrry if this is too verbose...but I feel liek sharing one more story...i tell it often but never got around to writing it down.

I remember a teenager named Jeff (name has been anonymized).  He's often a trouble maker on the streets dealing drugs, petty crime, etc...  I knew him through the boxing gym.  He's often acting tough around everyone, and when we're in the actual boxing ring, he shows very little discpline, often still punching people when they've fallen until the coach steps in.  Early in my encounters with him, the first thigns we did was actually spar in the ring.  I gained his respect because he knew he couldn't intimidate me.  We had a very violent and brutal sessions, but we learnt to respect each other in and outside of the ring.

One day during our rest time in the boxing gym, I went over to the front desk where there was a table.  I pulled out my laptop and opened up microsoft excel and I needed to assemble a project plan and budget estimate for a software system I needed to deliver to our client.  Jeff came up behind me and said, "You #$@#$, sup wicha?"

I reply, "I need to get this project plan out for a small project."

Jeff asks, "Whadat?  Whoaa.... 2Gs yo?"

"Yeah,  i need to help them upgrade a system for $2k Canadian dollars.  I have about a week to do it."

Jeff immediately drops his bags and equipment and sat beside me for the next hour or so asking "really good questions" about my work.

Jeff says, "#$@#, i gotta sling months of dope and rip off a lot phones to make 2Gs.  And get dat in a week.  You show me dat computer *(&(*&"

For as long as I've known Jeff, he'd always ask me how my work was doing, and if there's ways to help.  I tried to teach him a few things, but he keeps getting into trouble with the law and finds himself arrested.
 

I visited his family once.  He comes from a broken household.  The mom has a lot of issues and dad keeps running into problems with the police.

I often feel like what i do as a mentor means nothing...it's always undone by the parents.

[BelieveInHumans]

6 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

If you are going to coach or mentor children you need boundaries. You don't "groom" young people to be your play friends. You should never undermine parental authority with children.  

I completely agree with that now.  Which is why i feel the role of mentor/coach/etc... is not sufficient, the boundaries are too restrictive, I might as well not do anything

Edited October 4, 2023 by BelieveInHumans

[Els]

Quote

Stories like these happen again whether it's young people I've groomed to be in my company

I hope that this was just a poor choice of words, but your statement honestly sounds worrisome and creepy. Even if you did have children, you really shouldn't be "grooming them to be in your company"... There will be boundaries needed even with your own children, especially as they get older.

I'm glad you're going to see a professional.

Edited October 5, 2023 by Els

[d0nnivain]

The whole Aunty / George thing was more of you not understanding that people aren't logical.  You are correct about diet & nutrition but persuasion takes more than just facts.   You would be better off educating the Aunt not George.  You also seem surprised that parents have more influence than others.  It's the way of the world.  

You are missing empathy & emotion from your tool box.  You view them as unnecessary & in the way but they are important.  

Let me try to explain it this way.  You are computer guy.  You know the important parts of the computer are the chip, the memory, the CPUs, the connectivity etc.  (I am not that tech savvy so don't get bent if the analogy is imperfect)   You will buy a machine because of the hardware.  Somebody else will buy the computer because it's blue or purple.  The color has zero effect on the functionality of the device but it makes the person happy.  That is kind of what's going on here.  You don't understand why the color matters at all so you dismiss the idea that it matters to the person for whom color was the determining factor.  

[BelieveInHumans]

6 hours ago, Els said:

I hope that this was just a poor choice of words, but your statement honestly sounds worrisome and creepy. Even if you did have children, you really shouldn't be "grooming them to be in your company"... There will be boundaries needed even with your own children, especially as they get older.

I'm glad you're going to see a professional.

I use the word groom because I hear it often.  Employers say, "let's groom our project manager into the overall department lead."  So wasn't sure if there's a better word to use instead?

When people come to me and show interest in pursuing a path which I think I have some means to support, and it doesn't come at too great a cost to me, or even better, if it improves my position in terms of knowledge, profitability, positive outcome to society etc... then I am very interested in taking such a task.

 

If a person of any age shows no interest in pursuing my line of work or engaging in any of my hobbies, I see no reason to share what I know with them.

In the case of George, Aunty asked me to help him out. I saw that as an opportunity to help someone in terms of physical and nutritional health, and I do my part in reducing the long term burden on our overstressed Canadian health care system .  I failed.  Canadians will continue to pay taxes to support people like George.

Yes if I have my own childrne, there wil be boundaries.  It's just those boundaries will be less restrictive than the boundaries of other young people that belong to other families.

Edited October 5, 2023 by BelieveInHumans

[BelieveInHumans]

1 hour ago, d0nnivain said:

The whole Aunty / George thing was more of you not understanding that people aren't logical.  You are correct about diet & nutrition but persuasion takes more than just facts.   You would be better off educating the Aunt not George.  You also seem surprised that parents have more influence than others.  It's the way of the world.  

You are missing empathy & emotion from your tool box.  You view them as unnecessary & in the way but they are important.  

Let me try to explain it this way.  You are computer guy.  You know the important parts of the computer are the chip, the memory, the CPUs, the connectivity etc.  (I am not that tech savvy so don't get bent if the analogy is imperfect)   You will buy a machine because of the hardware.  Somebody else will buy the computer because it's blue or purple.  The color has zero effect on the functionality of the device but it makes the person happy.  That is kind of what's going on here.  You don't understand why the color matters at all so you dismiss the idea that it matters to the person for whom color was the determining factor.  

So there's a follow up to situations like this.

I acknowledge "color" does matter, just to what degree it matters and the cost you're wiling to pay for it.  This is going to be a stupid example, but I'll use it just to illustrate a point.  Two computer have identical hardware specs and same performance standards.  But like you said, one is blue and the other is purple.  The blue one costs $500.  The purple one costs $1500.

An acquitaince i communicate with often,  always complains to me about his stress from his financial debt, decides to buy the purple computer for $1500 because purple is his favourite color.  Although his is iinitially happy with his purchase, he comes to me later complaining why I didn't talk him out of it and just buy the blue one instead.

It's like I often see the train wreck about to happen, in fact, everyone does, but they don't set aside their emotiosn and take the necessary actions to avoid it. Or, if it does happen, they complain to me about it and I have to put up with it.

 

[mark clemson]

I find your question phrasing and story odd. Is this post written by an AI?

(Assuming it's not) if you truly are distressed around other people, then - despite what you might wish for - you might not be right for relationships.

In that case the key strategy (to my mind) would be to find one of the few people in the world who relate to you well on your own terms and see if you can start a relationship with them.

Learning the typical social skills of friendship is probably a good step in this direction and may be helpful. HOWEVER, I'd note that among adults non-romantic friendships are often built around shared interests, rather than simply "being there" socially. So, if your mental model of "befriending" folks is based on what you observed in high school and college, it may not apply well in the real world of the behavior of busy adults for whom friendship is a lower priority than it was in youth.

I would say that improving your social skills will be helpful overall, but shouldn't be the primary focus. Being friends with a potential romantic partner CAN be a good place to be IF that person is also attracted to you romantically. But it can also be a huge waste of time if they aren't. I think many people tend to separate looking for friends and looking for romantic partners. It's ALSO true that many people are "open" to a friend becoming a romantic partner (but again only IF they're attracted to the friend).

Ultimately friends and romantic partners are different things, so that's something you'd be wise to keep in mind. You might be well served to research "pair-bonding" which applies a bit more to the "pre-amble" phase of starting a relationship and may get more at what you're looking to establish here.

[mark clemson]

On 10/3/2023 at 1:40 AM, BelieveInHumans said:

I need to prioritize understanding adult humans and befriending them.

You might try prioritizing understanding what adult women find attractive in men, so that ones you might be interested in and/or make friends with will find you attractive.

That's easier said than done, but you could take a look at the book "A Billion Wicked Thoughts" - specifically the parts on female attraction (there are a few chapters on this). If you're able to understand that and "operationalize" this info into specific concrete actions, that may go a long way towards netting you a wife or at least a girlfriend or three...

[Els]

2 hours ago, BelieveInHumans said:

I use the word groom because I hear it often.  Employers say, "let's groom our project manager into the overall department lead."  So wasn't sure if there's a better word to use instead?

Using the word "groom" with children specifically definitely does have a different meaning.

[d0nnivain]

5 hours ago, BelieveInHumans said:

It's like I often see the train wreck about to happen, in fact, everyone does, but they don't set aside their emotiosn and take the necessary actions to avoid it. Or, if it does happen, they complain to me about it and I have to put up with it.
 

That is part & parcel of being a good friend.   While active listening is a skill so is appearing to listen when you really don't care.  I'm awful for doing this but I have a friend who goes on & on & on.  Sometimes I literally put the phone on speaker & then do anything else while she prattles away.  Occasionally I murmur something banal like MmmHmm, or really? or wow so it sounds like I'm listening but it's going right over me because honestly I don't care to have a 25 minute conversation about what your grandkid is going to be for Halloween.   Learn that skill, the art of appearing to give a flying fig without actually doing so.  

We all have plenty of friends who repeatedly make decisions that cause us to bang our heads on a wall.  There is nothing you can do.  In the moment you play up the wisdom & utility of the smarter choice & ask a few pointed Qs designed to help them see the folly of the other choice but they get to make it.   And then you have to listen to them whine about it later. 

[BelieveInHumans]

@d0nnivain@mark clemson

Thanks for insight.  You both said something relating to listening skills/social interaction skills.  I know this thread is kind of long, and maybe I mislead people to think I'm not able to "appear normal" and socialize.  I would say I'm good at appearign normal but it takes a lot of energy.  But when i have the energy, I do it quite well because people often come to me with their problems and I listen and give my advice.  Just yesterday night, I spent 4 hours listening and talking to a colleague about being home sick (he's from Iran), asking me for advice on how to repair his relationships with his dad and mom, how to secure enough finances to take care of his younger brother who has down's syndrome etc.. etc... On average, I tend to do this once every two weeks for some colleague, business associate or client...we talk about work, but then we end up with me listening to some challenge they have outside of work for hours , and me trying to give them solutions.  THey seem to walk away with an "you're right and aha" moment, but of course, that's just liek a temporary moment of euphoria, and within a few days, they'll go back to their same usual ways and nothing changes.

Now just because I can do all this, doesn't mean I like it.  People think I'm very good at giving advice and listening, and I can keep things going for hours.  But I do not enjoy it.  I can "mimic" what other humans do, but it comes at substantial effort and endurance.

I only do it because people's life outside of work often affects how they work.  And when they decide to ask me for advice and support, it is in my interest to help them because:
a) if I can contribute to a solution, then they will have fewer distractions in the work place, and then we can make more money together
b) i learn more about humanity, which might give me the toolset and knowledge to share with others who may encounter similar scenarios

But the more I do this, the more I learn how pointless a lot of these things are. Nothing ever changes, because I'm not a professionally trained mental healthcare worker, and I can't coach all these people all the time and tell them what to do.

All I can do is just watch the train wreck happen in slow motion.  They're driving the train, they know what's going to happen, but....it's still going to happen.  And this is why I can't relate to humans.

- One colleague complains to me about the pain of some growth under the tongue.  Doctor already said he should do a biopsy.  I tell him he should isten to doctor.  He says he's afraid it will hurt, and continues to drink and eat foods that doctor explicitely said not to drink and eat.
- Another business associate I know owes the government $2M in penalties and fines.  He's got a mortgage and is paying over $15k/month, most of it interest. He's unemployed and stressed out and always yelling and emotionally abusing his wife as an outlet.   His wife tells me she wishes the husband would just sell the house and they'd be back to $0 and can start fresh.  But the husband says he loves the house too much.  And they bicker and fight, and it's taking a big toll on both of them....I'm thinking of not working with these people anymore...it's probably nt worth it.

The list goes on and on...I just don't know how to relate to humans.  It's very taxing listening to these things that I can't change, and it ultimately affects the way we do business.

Edited October 5, 2023 by BelieveInHumans