Insecure guy?

[Marka]

Run into similar situation as another poster, swiped right on a guy with pictures showing only his face up to shoulders etc. We started chatting and I enjoyed our conversation. Among other things he asked what I am looking for in a man and I said there should be connection on emotional, intellectual level and physical attraction. Quite basic things I would say. He then replied it is not going to work as he is overweight and I said earlier that physical attraction is important for me. Which is true, but it doesn't mean that overweight guy would not be attractive to me, I look at general picture and I dated both overweight, thin and in good shape guys. Was never deal breaker for me as long as I am attracted. Anyway I respected his decision and if he feels it doesn't work it is fine and wished him all the best.

He then reached out next day saying that he changed his mind and would be happy to meet if I feel I can be patient while he is working on loosing the weight (which is not even requirement for me, as long as guy is comfortable in his own skin I don't care). I was a bit hesitant, as I don't really like back and forth, but nonetheless thought it is too much pressure nowadays for overweight people in present society, so it is understandable for a man to be unsecure a bit. So I replied to him that I am still open to meeting him. He replied with a smile emoji and thats it. Heard nothing for past couple of days.

Now I feel like it is already a bit of unhealthy dynamics and I need to move on. From other side, he seems to be intelligent and cultural guy and I really enjoyed our conversations. I am a bit unsure how to proceed here, not clear to me if he is just that unsecure or uninterested

[Alpacalia]

I don't think it matters if he is unsecure or not, his interest is clearly not enough for him to keep up with the conversation. You have already expressed your willingness to meet him despite his weight. If he is still unresponsive or unsure, I don't see how you can move forward with this person. Perhaps it is time to focus your attention on someone who is more confident and ready to engage in a potential relationship with you.

[Weezy1973]

42 minutes ago, Marka said:

…as long as guy is comfortable in his own skin I don't care)…

He clearly isn’t, so I think this one should be a pass. It’s not your responsibility to give him confidence.

[Lotsgoingon]

Typically I would say there is no wrong move here. Meeting him is no commitment to anything further. Your mission would be to allow yourself to go the extra mile to see if the things you liked about outweighed his insecurities.

But this guy has gone silent. Guy goes silent on you after you show some openness, no!  You were more than generous and understanding.  What's interesting is that you weren't being "nice." You were just expressing the truth that you are comfortable with a range of body sizes. You opened the door wide for him, wide! But then he turned and ran (went silent) anyway. Don't go chasing him. That would be the dynamic of the entire relationship. 

This guy's reaction reminds me of a dance I once went to. It's a slow, sensual dance genre that I won't name here. This particular night started with a lesson, and then the social dance goes on for about two hours. Once the social dancing started, one of the teachers, a woman who co-led the lesson, asked me to dance. I said yes, but as I got close to her to get into the embrace, the dumbness and insecurity of dancing with the teacher spilled out. "I'm sorta a beginner" I told her. Which wasn't true. I was experienced.

The look of disgust on her face is one I will never forget. Her expression screamed out: "Shut the F up and dance, you idiot!" And I understand her reaction. The key element of this dance is how well you connect with your partner. That's actually more important than technical still.  You can have two technically advanced dancers moving with each other and things can be blah--unsatisfying to both people. And you could have a mediocre dancer and a near beginner (if both allow themselves to relax and be present) and the dance can be produce magic and downright elation.  

This teacher had had time to see me dance and she approached me. She had opened the door wide! Yet here I was pre-apologizing for my own dance skill (which wasn’t an issue with her) just like this guy pre-apologized for his body, which wasn’t an issue for you. 

No surprise, my dance with the teacher was stiff and robotic. I had taken myself out of my power. I had undermined the fun for me and for her. This guy has already undermined the fun for you.

Back to you, I have a question. Why are you even THINKING of him after he went silent? Guy goes silent like that, run! Do you have some tolerance for distant, inconsistent or insecure guys? If so, lose that immediately!

 

 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Lotsgoingon

[Versacehottie]

3 hours ago, Marka said:

Now I feel like it is already a bit of unhealthy dynamics and I need to move on. From other side, he seems to be intelligent and cultural guy and I really enjoyed our conversations. I am a bit unsure how to proceed here, not clear to me if he is just that unsecure or uninterested

IMO you should move on. Basically I like that you had an open enough mind to give him that "second chance" after he said that (weird) unconfident thing. But you are meeting him more than halfway under the circumstances and now he's not in more consistent contact. In context, I think that's like a 3 strikes and he's out thing. Basically he''s not that in shape, he feels bad about it and as soon as you agreed to keep an open-mind, he then sort of treats you in a dismissive manner. My feeling is that you are a pawn in his ego struggles. And this final thing of not being in touch would show me that he's going to keep doing that hot/cold thing as he works through them...even at your expense. He doesn't sound like he's ready or in a position to date. (which is not against overweight people but he shouldn't have layered that on you IMO).

If you slightly want to keep the door open, tell him you understand he's going through some personal stuff (lol or however you want to word that similarly) and he's welcome to get in touch after he's worked through it and maybe if he gets lucky, you will still be single. 

*BTW, I definitely don't think the back and forth, "reconsider" is a good dynamic!! You guys haven't even met yet, not like you are a 2 year couple with some back and forth indecision on real things!! I typically think that people who do this and act impulsively, ie laying his insecurity speech on you right away essentially and then subsequently backtracking, are typically a waste of time. It's impulsive and unstable and even if he feels better about himself eventually/loses some weight or whatever, I highly doubt this character trait will go away🤪 I think sometimes people can be educated and look good on paper and still be a hot mess. That's sort of what he sounds like. My guess is he will devalue you for having accepted him in a lesser state...as these indecisive, impulsive, and self-centered in a stuck way people tend to do. His thinking will be: "wow, she can't be all that great if she likes me like this in my D self era!!".  This is in evidence to me by the fact that he should have felt enthused and progressing forward with the green light and reassurance you gave him and you got an emoji and silence!  Fear of his failure, mixed in with ego issues and a need to win. It's all a mess really. If you decide you don't want to date him now, my guess is that you won't look back and he' ll be forgotten in a couple of weeks. If you invest at all, his back and forth will mess with you and you will just waste your own time. Good luck. I voted for dump. That little thing I advised saying, of course, you don't have to and I might lean toward not doing it at all. But you can if you want, might help you feel like you are not just shutting doors on potential opportunities unnecessarily. But don't date him now as he is.🙂

[Marka]

12 minutes ago, Versacehottie said:

Basically I like that you had an open enough mind to give him that "second chance" after he said that (weird) unconfident thing.

Initially I wanted to reject him, but took a day to think and decided to give a second chance. I think most people deserve second chance if they ask nicely but probably not a 3rd one.

 

13 minutes ago, Versacehottie said:

If you slightly want to keep the door open, tell him you understand he's going through some personal stuff (lol or however you want to word that similarly) and he's welcome to get in touch after he's worked through it and maybe if he gets lucky, you will still be single. 

 

I probably won't. After that emoji I don't think I should reach out with something like that. I will look really desperate. He really needs to work on himself and probably more mentally than hitting the gym. I feel that he will reach out again with some more mess. The reason I was actually thinking more favorably in regard of his insecurity, it that i was overweight by like 20kg myself like 5 years ago, took me 6 months of dieting and gym to loose that weight. So I can relate. 

 

16 minutes ago, Versacehottie said:

This is in evidence to me by the fact that he should have felt enthused and progressing forward with the green light and reassurance you gave him and you got an emoji and silence!  Fear of his failure, mixed in with ego issues and a need to win. It's all a mess really.

Yes exactly. Big mess. I don't need that in my life. I am chatting with another guy who is slightly overweight, but has several pictures in his profile showing his body and I have no issues with that and he doesn't seem to have as well. We are planning to meet next week. 

[Marka]

3 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

But this guy has gone silent. Guy goes silent on you after you show some openness, no! 

Yes I was also confused by myself. He replied very quickly to my messages, when I asked him a reason why he changed his mind and then with this emoji when I said I am still open to see him. I will not be chasing for sure. The ball is in his court. But even if he hits it back, I probably still should not take it.

 

3 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Back to you, I have a question. Why are you even THINKING of him after he went silent? Guy goes silent like that, run! Do you have some tolerance for distant, inconsistent or insecure guys? If so, lose that immediately!

I agree in general. I should not allow back and forth behavior. The only reason is that I can relate to his insecurity as I was overweight myself several years ago. So I felt bad for him.

[Wiseman2]

Just now, Marka said:

I felt bad for him.

Sorry this happened. You were open-minded, but he may be too self-conscious to date, just lonely and hiding behind a screen. It's good to have empathy, but dating out of pity isn't in anyone's best interest. Glad you moved on after the emoji text. 

[Marka]

4 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

It's good to have empathy, but dating out of pity isn't in anyone's best interest.

I wasn't going to date neither him nor anyone else out of pity. I don't have issues with body types and enjoyed our conversation. That's why decided to give it a go. 

But I will not chase him out of pity or any other reason. I think people are right, who mentioned him going silent is not okay, as of why are you asking for 2nd chance if you are not going to follow through. Will move on and keep talking to other guys.

Edited October 14, 2023 by Marka

[Lotsgoingon]

After that emoji I don't think I should reach out with something like that. I will look really desperate.

Hey, don't worry about "looking" desperate. That's not the issue. If you are confident and not desperate that will come through quickly when you're with someone. People get tied in knots over this "I don't want to be seen as" a certain way. 

No, the problem here and the reason you don't want to reply is that HE has disappeared even AFTER you showed you were willing to consider hanging with him. He has shown himself to be thoroughly unreliable. That's why you don't want to reach out to him. Forget the "I might appear desperate" thing. 

For example, if you really thought he was a great guy, you could reach out to him while being totally confident and assertive. You would say something along the lines of "hey, I'm reaching to you, but I have mixed feelings. I like you based on the little I know, but then you disappeared. That's not the kind of behavior I typically put up with. But you seem like a good guy still working on some things, so I'll make an exception in this one instance. Do you want to go out or not?"

That's totally confident, totally assertive. No appearance of desperation, sure. But more important, it's objectively not desperate! But notice that the words draw a clear boundary and set a standard and make clear you were willing to look past his silence in this one instance only.

I had women who set such boundaries with me in my unreliable, fickle days. They sometimes went an extra mile, but they did so while announcing an explicit standard I had failed to meet--a standard they were suspending for one time. And then they enforced that standard at the first sign I was fickle again. My reaction to these women: they were super strong! I was impressed by them and knew deeply inside of myself that I wasn’t ready to date such people.

These strong women didn't cut me off because they feared I would see them as "desperate." They cut me off because they  concluded that I was a waste of their time. 

 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Lotsgoingon

[Marka]

9 minutes ago, Lotsgoingon said:

That's totally confident, totally assertive. No appearance of desperation, sure. But more important, it's objectively not desperate! But notice that the words draw a clear boundary and set a standard and make clear you were willing to look past his silence in this one instance only.

 

Yes, thats right. When he messaged me that he changed his mind. I messaged him back saying that I really don't appreciate back and forth dynamics and asked why he changed his mind. He gave his reason and I said I am open to meet. I personally think you can state your expectations once, if person didn't hear it is lost case. No point reaching out repeating what has been communicated. The messages in the thread were really helpful, even if he reaches out next week, I will brush him off or will reply wth emoji.🤨

[Lotsgoingon]

You got it!!!!!

[Versacehottie]

6 hours ago, Marka said:

Initially I wanted to reject him, but took a day to think and decided to give a second chance. I think most people deserve second chance if they ask nicely but probably not a 3rd one.

yeah it was open-minded and I would have recommended doing that. There's really no harm in doing so. Especially, you sound pretty sure of yourself in a good way.

 

6 hours ago, Marka said:

I probably won't. After that emoji I don't think I should reach out with something like that. I will look really desperate. He really needs to work on himself and probably more mentally than hitting the gym. I feel that he will reach out again with some more mess.

oh yeah it was just an option...In fact, if you feel good about cutting ties completely definitely do that, as I also recommended. While I often point out stuff that looks or is desperate on other threads, I actually think saying the option I suggested is very confident. You'd be reminding him in the moment "if I'm still available" and that is confident and a good reminder that he blew a good thing right now. It's also nothing you ever need to act on. BTW, I think being desperate is usually resigned to when a person still wants to date the other person and is doing things to try to manipulative that outcome. I don't really think when you've decided that you don't want to date him in his current mental state of low self-esteem that it's desperate at all. It's just a statement, in good faith said at that moment because it's sort of "wish timing for us was different/lol and not so sure about you now if you aren't sure about yourself". It's not really a promise since 2 months from now--or even 2 weeks from now--your life could be different it's not a guarantee that you would even take his call! But yeah I totally can agree with going with the cut-all-ties version so you don't have to continue to deal with his mess. I thought some of the purpose of this thread was bc you were torn...maybe talking it through with us made it crystal clear!

 

6 hours ago, Marka said:

I am chatting with another guy who is slightly overweight, but has several pictures in his profile showing his body and I have no issues with that and he doesn't seem to have as well. We are planning to meet next week. 

Awesome. Roll with that ....like I predicted whether it's this other guy or a 3rd, 4th or 5th person, I highly doubt you will give this guy (the subject of the post) a second thought within a week or so. Good luck!

[Versacehottie]

5 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Hey, don't worry about "looking" desperate. That's not the issue. If you are confident and not desperate that will come through quickly when you're with someone. People get tied in knots over this "I don't want to be seen as" a certain way. 

No, the problem here and the reason you don't want to reply is that HE has disappeared even AFTER you showed you were willing to consider hanging with him. He has shown himself to be thoroughly unreliable. That's why you don't want to reach out to him. Forget the "I might appear desperate" thing

Yeah I agree with this whole-heartedly. As long as you remain true to yourself, in your actions and words, it's not really acting desperate. IMO, you haven't acted that way at all yet and forget what some guy that you have so little respect for and barely want to date and is not from your personal world thinks. That's why the desperate thing makes very little sense in this context. If you kept the door open for something in the future potentially or back burner him, and it works out mutually, it would be to your benefit. If you increasingly become sure of your current decision/or meet someone else, then who cares what he thinks and it won't matter anyway, ie you won't answer him if he got in touch in the future or tell him at that point that you've moved on completely. I think if a person is always in control--and realizes they are in control--then their choices are hardly ever desperate.  

I'm glad you chose to cut it off but it's good to keep this kind of stuff in mind for the future...because even if the next good guy you are dating, you will probably bump into the feeling about "not wanting to look desperate again". And perhaps that feeling will misguide you or have you hold back or make bad decisions. I think your natural instincts so far seemed really great so I'm surprised that you'd be worried about looking desperate and would just keep doing what you've been doing. Pretty honest and open relative to where you are in the dating cycle/timeframe is a good way to play it...and advocate for yourself and your bigger dreams..don't be afraid of that.🙂

[glows]

17 hours ago, Marka said:

🤨

I agree with all the previous comments and your decision to can it. Nothing to add except to applaud this emoji. Very fitting!

[Marka]

I just dunno whats wrong with the people. I was trying to arrange a date with another guy like for a month. Started chatting mid September, he asked me out but then he went away on hols for 2 weeks and said he will be back on Wednesday and lets agree meeting up then. I message him on Thursday evening asking how his trip was and if he would like to meet at the weekend. He replies on Saturday afternoon (almost two days later), suggesting Sunday. I said cool are you free around 6pm. No reply. Sunday morning he messages and asks if I can make it around lunchtime. To what I said that it is all unnecessary last minute and I cant just get up and commute an hour to city center at the last minute. He apologized what it seemed sincerely saying it is his fault and asks to reschedule which I said sure. I was heading to extended weekend getaway break and once I was back he went to weekend getaway. He asked if I am available next week to meet and I said yes I can do Tuesday or Wednesday evening after work. To which he replied great. This exchange was on Friday. He finally messages today in the afternoon asking if I am available tomorrow or on Thursday. I said I can do tomorrow but not on Thursday as I mentioned last Friday and asked them which location he was thinking to meet. I replied him in the late afternoon. 10 pm now local time - and no reply for a date which is supposedly be tomorrow. We talk on whatsapp now, not a dating app. I checked he was online several times after I sent reply and my message is still not read after 5 hours. I just blocked and deleted him. Enough is enough.

I feel like online dating is completely screwed. The problem is I live in a city where it is extremely difficult to meet IRL, though I participate in lots of social activities. I go out also a lot, men just don't approach.

[basil67]

13 minutes ago, Marka said:

I feel like online dating is completely screwed. The problem is I live in a city where it is extremely difficult to meet IRL, though I participate in lots of social activities. I go out also a lot, men just don't approach.

OLD isn't completely screwed....you just spent too much time waiting around on this guy.  If someone isn't reliable in their messaging from the start, then don't bother with them further.  

Regarding men not approaching, what do you do to encourage them?   For example, can you start chatting to a stranger who's queued up at the bar waiting for a drink?  Throw a smile at a guy who's dancing near you?  Say Hi to a regular at the gym?    There's a lot of women who don't like cold approaches, so it's worth signaling your interest

 

[Marka]

5 minutes ago, basil67 said:

you just spent too much time waiting around on this guy.  If someone isn't reliable in their messaging from the start, then don't bother with them further.  

s true. Funny fact is that he replied quite quickly to general messages but not when trying to set up a date.

6 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Regarding men not approaching, what do you do to encourage them? 

Yes I smile guys and also start chatting with guys I go to tennis social for example. But it is just polite exchange.  Nothing ever came from it.

[basil67]

Just now, Marka said:

s true. Funny fact is that he replied quite quickly to general messages but not when trying to set up a date.

He sounds like a waste of time

Just now, Marka said:

Yes I smile guys and also start chatting with guys I go to tennis social for example. But it is just polite exchange.  Nothing ever came from it.

That's normal.  Meeting strangers has a really low success rate.  As long as you stay friendly and open, you're doing your best.  Of course, you could ask a guy out

[glows]

He sounds very rude and inconsiderate of your time. 

Online dating is not completely bad. There are success stories and people who also meet other genuine people who end up being friends due to romance not working out. It can be exhausting though sifting through profiles. Don’t give up and enjoy the journey. Don’t spend time going back and forth with people like this.

[d0nnivain]

The overweight guy is too damaged.  I doubt he will reach out again but you were kind to say you would give him a chance.

The missed connections guy is just not that interested.  Like you he has a lot going on but you are not a priority.  He's trying to squeeze you in last minute where he can when he has nothing else going on.   I would not hold my breath, nor would I rearrange anything to suit his schedule.  

Keep trying IRL   If you go out a lot as you say but men don't approach, you need to be the ice breaker.  

[stillafool]

My suggestion is when these guys you meet suddenly have to go away on vacay, slow to reply and continue to cancel dates is they are giving you the run around and not really interested.  Stop playing their game and don't try to set up anymore meet ups.  Men who want you, act like it.  There are no cancellations or missed messages.  Please hold out for someone like that.

[Marka]

3 hours ago, stillafool said:

My suggestion is when these guys you meet suddenly have to go away on vacay, slow to reply and continue to cancel dates is they are giving you the run around and not really interested.  Stop playing their game and don't try to set up anymore meet ups.  Men who want you, act like it.  There are no cancellations or missed messages.  Please hold out for someone like that.

He was really away for vacations as his location on app  changed so I though he was geniusly intrested. But I agree with the rest of your post. This guy is blocked and deleted. 

Agreed for a date with other guy on Saturday, will see how this one goes

Edited October 18, 2023 by Marka

[d0nnivain]

2 hours ago, Marka said:

Agreed for a date with other guy on Saturday, will see how this one goes

Who is the "other guy" mentioned above? Missed connections / last minute guy?  If so you best get confirmation before noon on Saturday before you go anywhere.  You may have to reach out to secure this.  

[Marka]

1 minute ago, d0nnivain said:

Who is the "other guy" mentioned above? Missed connections / last minute guy?  If so you best get confirmation before noon on Saturday before you go anywhere.  You may have to reach out to secure this.  

No, 3rd one. Been chatted for a week and he asked me out yesterday for Saturday. Made plans tonight. I have a dinner with friends anyway so will not be a big loss if this one falls through as well. But will message on Friday evening or Sat morning to confirm if we are still on.