He drinks a lot of alcohol

[Calmandfocused]

18 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

I have a hard time imagining a man drinking that much every night, and drinking even more on weekends, being a good father. I'm sure he loves his children, not debating his love,  but how present can you be when your alcohol level is 4-5 times above the limit every single day. 

You don't know the real him yet, you're seeing the surface and you're already seeing his alcoholism, imagine all you don't see yet.

You make some excellent points. 
 

I’ve already got to grips with his “workaround strategies” concerning his children. However they’re teens so I’m pretty sure they’re not daft and probably know exactly what’s going on. 
 

 He starts drinking about 5.30pm every day. Therefore he’ll drop his children off at 5pm back to his ex wife, then goes straight to the pub. 

I’ve also picked up that he avoids speaking to his children in the evening even though he appears to be very close to them otherwise. He’s always doing activities with them and communicates with them a lot. 

My sense is that he goes to great lengths to hide his drinking from his children which is another indictor of addiction. However they must know. 

[Els]

9 hours ago, Calmandfocused said:

I’m talking at least a bottle of wine plus a few beers- Every day.

Every day??? Yikes. I'd hard pass on this one unfortunately, it'd lead to a whole bunch of preventable medical issues at the very least (and probably more than just that).

To be clear, I'm not against drinking - I take the occasional drink, and H frequently has a glass of wine or a bottle of beer with dinner. IMO, drinking, in moderation, within the WHO guidelines, is totally fine. This guy's consumption is WAY out there, though.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Els

[Calmandfocused]

17 minutes ago, Els said:

Every day??? Yikes. I'd hard pass on this one unfortunately, it'd lead to a whole bunch of preventable medical issues at the very least (and probably more than just that).

To be clear, I'm not against drinking - I take the occasional drink, and H frequently has a glass of wine or a bottle of beer with dinner. IMO, drinking, in moderation, within the WHO guidelines, is totally fine. This guy's consumption is WAY out there, though.

I completely agree Els. If he consumed alcohol in the same way yourself and your husband do I wouldn’t have a problem with it at all. 
 

It’s the quantity, excessiveness, and habitual nature of this guy’s drinking that I find alarming. 

[Ami1uwant]

6 hours ago, Calmandfocused said:

Thanks everyone. I know that what you’re all saying is absolutely correct. 
 

The drinking culture is so socially accepted in the U.K. it’s difficult to pinpoint when a drinking problem is a problem. There is a huge population of functioning alcoholics. 
 

In a lot of ways I’m the “abnormal” one due to my very limited consumption. Even my female friends drink way more than me. 2 of them do have a problem with drinking copious amount of gin, but again they are “functioning”.

 How do I draw a line and a standard with something that is so “normal” here? And what is that line exactly? Tricky one. 

My two cents…

 

I know there can be cultural differences like some people might drink more.

 

my mom was a military brat spending half her childhood in Europe. She grew up drinking alcohol with meals.  She religiously had 2-2 glasses of wine every day with dinner or shortly after.  She never accepted that she would be considered an alcoholic.

 

daily drinking can be a big issue even before you talk of drinking a full wine bottle 

 

this is a no go for me.occasional drinking is fine.

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, Calmandfocused said:

 my father was a “functioning alcoholic”. A successful Businessman whose life revolved around getting his next drink. 

It's great you are aware of this blindspot. It sort of explains why you were trying to minimize and normalize this problem drinking as "pub culture".

Hopefully you will check out the Al-Anon link I provided for support, information and strength. Trust your instincts that this is a red flag. 

[spiderowl]

I think you are right to be concerned.  A friend of mine, who I met when I was a young adult (years ago), used to drink a few cans to relax in the evening.  He did this regularly.  At the time, I didn't think anything of it, except that he became a bit tipsy on occasion.  Because I was visiting him and his wife at the time, I just thought it was 'drinks with friends or visitors'.  However, many years later, he had been married twice and both marriages ended for the same reason: his drinking.  When I first met him, he was drinking a bit regularly but that gradually became several times a day and then he became an alcoholic.  Sadly,  he died a few years ago due to the damage the alcohol had caused.  It was very sad because he was a bright, interesting and kind guy.  It was such a waste.  

The guy you are interested in sounds equally nice.  It does sound like he is a functioning alcoholic.  You wouldn't know the difference until he is asked to go without alcohol for a week.  It's a concern to you now and it will become a bigger concern in the future.  He is a great father so one can assume his previous marriage(?) relationship broke up.  See if you can find out why.

I would tackle him on his drinking.  Point out gently that it is a lot more than you are used to and you are concerned for him.  See what he says.  Does he have any insight into this?  What justification does he give?  Is he willing to reduce the drinking?  Are you willing to stick with him if he agrees to do this?  Another woman I know had the same problem with her husband.  He agreed to reduce drinking, went to AA, then carried on hiding the alcohol from her until the day he died.  She could never fully trust him on that.

Quite honestly, if it were me, I'd cut and run.  I wouldn't want to get into the rollercoaster of 'He has stopped drinking; oh dear he has started again.  He has stopped really this time; oh dear he's fallen off the wagon'.  My friend was a lovely guy but I could not have lived with an alcoholic and all the problems that brings.  

 

 

[Calmandfocused]

12 minutes ago, spiderowl said:

I think you are right to be concerned.  A friend of mine, who I met when I was a young adult (years ago), used to drink a few cans to relax in the evening.  He did this regularly.  At the time, I didn't think anything of it, except that he became a bit tipsy on occasion.  Because I was visiting him and his wife at the time, I just thought it was 'drinks with friends or visitors'.  However, many years later, he had been married twice and both marriages ended for the same reason: his drinking.  When I first met him, he was drinking a bit regularly but that gradually became several times a day and then he became an alcoholic.  Sadly,  he died a few years ago due to the damage the alcohol had caused.  It was very sad because he was a bright, interesting and kind guy.  It was such a waste.  

The guy you are interested in sounds equally nice.  It does sound like he is a functioning alcoholic.  You wouldn't know the difference until he is asked to go without alcohol for a week.  It's a concern to you now and it will become a bigger concern in the future.  He is a great father so one can assume his previous marriage(?) relationship broke up.  See if you can find out why.

I would tackle him on his drinking.  Point out gently that it is a lot more than you are used to and you are concerned for him.  See what he says.  Does he have any insight into this?  What justification does he give?  Is he willing to reduce the drinking?  Are you willing to stick with him if he agrees to do this?  Another woman I know had the same problem with her husband.  He agreed to reduce drinking, went to AA, then carried on hiding the alcohol from her until the day he died.  She could never fully trust him on that.

Quite honestly, if it were me, I'd cut and run.  I wouldn't want to get into the rollercoaster of 'He has stopped drinking; oh dear he has started again.  He has stopped really this time; oh dear he's fallen off the wagon'.  My friend was a lovely guy but I could not have lived with an alcoholic and all the problems that brings.  

 

 

Thanks for sharing your story SO. It resonates with me. 
 

Yes if my guy was a bit of tw*t it would be easy. But he’s not, he’s a really nice guy. His persona is very calm, relaxed and peaceful. He feels safe if that makes sense. 
 

No games, ambiguity or odd nuances in behaviour.

However I’m aware that I’ve probably not seen or spoken to him yet just before it’s time to start drinking. I’d be very interested to see what he’d be like if he had to wait an hour or two for his first pint. 
 

However I understand the psychology of it. It probably feels safe to me because of familiarity. However my father wasn’t a safe drunk. He was a nasty drunk and in a bad mood the majority of the time. 

 

 

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, Calmandfocused said:

I’ve already got to grips with his “workaround strategies” concerning his children. However they’re teens so I’m pretty sure they’re not daft and probably know exactly what’s going on. 
 

 He starts drinking about 5.30pm every day. Therefore he’ll drop his children off at 5pm back to his ex wife, then goes straight to the pub. 

I’ve also picked up that he avoids speaking to his children in the evening.

My sense is that he goes to great lengths to hide his drinking from his children which is another indictor of addiction. However they must know. 

My mom and dad used to have a glass of wine with dinner. They would then continue to drink throughout the evening while they watched television. I used ti hate it when I would come home - if she was slurring her words, I would avoid her and go straight to my room. It upset me to see her drink this way… she would perhaps be described as a functioning alcoholic, by any standard. But, we never used that word. She was a good and kind and loving parent - I grew up in a very happy and supportive home. But, I knew to avoid conversations with my parents in the evening if they had been drinking and they were slurring their words. It scared me. I’m sure his kids are also aware. One does not drink as much as he does and those closest to him are not aware…

[Gaeta]

5 minutes ago, Calmandfocused said:

However my father wasn’t a safe drunk

There is no such a thing as a 'safe drunk'. Your brain is trying to justify exploring this. W-a-l-k a-w-a-y....

My childhood best friend was a daily drinker, a kind woman that paid her bills, raised her kids, was with same man for 35 years then at age 55 her pancreas gave up because of the alcohol, she was one full year in a coma, had a stroke while in a coma, and now waking up from that at 56 she is paralyzed and mute for the rest of her life. 

Anyway you look at this it's not something worth exploring. 

[spiderowl]

15 minutes ago, Calmandfocused said:

Thanks for sharing your story SO. It resonates with me. 
 

Yes if my guy was a bit of tw*t it would be easy. But he’s not, he’s a really nice guy. His persona is very calm, relaxed and peaceful. He feels safe if that makes sense. 
 

No games, ambiguity or odd nuances in behaviour.

However I’m aware that I’ve probably not seen or spoken to him yet just before it’s time to start drinking. I’d be very interested to see what he’d be like if he had to wait an hour or two for his first pint. 
 

However I understand the psychology of it. It probably feels safe to me because of familiarity. However my father wasn’t a safe drunk. He was a nasty drunk and in a bad mood the majority of the time. 

 

 

CalmandFocused, It is an awful shame to meet a nice guy and then to have this red flag appear.  It probably feels familiar to you and even safe, but it isn't safe in the long run.  There's the driving (or lack of it due to being drunk), the erratic behaviour, the deception of hiding drink, and as time goes on his health problems.  

[NuevoYorko]

A person who's nice, calm etc. when inebriated is still "under the influence."  This guy is not really fully present, emotionally, in his life.  He does not choose to be, and he goes to quite a bit of trouble to assure that he doesn't have to be.

Any kind of intimate relationship (emotional, romantic, familial, all of them) with a person who is drunk or high most of the time is not going to be fulfilling.  

I am speaking from experience in almost all phases of the cycle - being a child with drunk parent, being sober with a drunk / high relationship partner, and me being the drunk / high person.  Fortunately my daughter and current partner have not had to deal with that, because I'm clean and sober myself now.   It's a whole different world.  

[ClearEyes-FullHeart]

Totally agree on a hard pass. Signing up for a relationship with an alcoholic is signing up for misery, and I say this as a child of alcoholics. Father was high functioning and mother less so, though she did stop following an intervention.

Anyone interested in the effects of alcohol on the brain, I highly encourage seeking out a podcast from Dr. Andrew Huberman, titled “What Alcohol Does to Your Body, Brain & Health | Huberman Lab Podcast #86”  You can find it on YouTube. Apple Podcast etc. There’s a reason it’s been viewed on YouTube over 5 million times in a year….so informative! You may find a scroll through the comments of interest.

I love the Huberman Lab podcast and this one was very insightful and just hit home to me. I have always avoided alcohol given my family history and this episode underscores for me that it’s the right decision. In recent years, I probably only have one glass of wine a quarter at the most, usually tied to a special occasion. While I do love good wine I don’t miss not having it as I feel so amazing just living very clean.

Best of luck and think long and hard about what you really want in a relationship.

 

 

[ExpatInItaly]

Just call it off now, OP.