USA marital traditions vs ex ?

[Lover_1]

Here is my situation:
Me: Canadian, divorced since 3 years with children, ready for love
Her: American, divorced since 10 years with children, ready for love BUT...
We both are around 60 but very active and young at heart.
We both are retired.

We know each other for only 8 months, living in each others house full time depending of the time of the year.

Even if she is divorced since 10 years, and had a boyfriend in between, she still has her ex-husband name. 
It bugs me a bit, since it's like I'm always remembered her ex. But, she tells me it is only because in the US, taking
her name back is a lot of paper to fill, and she has no love sentiments to him, only friendship.

But she still wears her wedding band. When I asked her why, she said that this ring belonged to his mother, and she loved his
mother a lot, so it is a souvenir. I said fine, you can keep your souvenir in a drawer, but she refused, she was very mad at me.
She even threatened me that if I was insisting too much, it would be a probable reason to leave me. I couldn't believe it! Finally, I asked her to wear it
on the right hand instead of the left one. It bugs me because to me, it is not a souvenir, but a reference to her ex.

Then, there is her very strong friendship with him. She is in contact with him on a weekly basis, either a direct conversation or a group chat with the kids.
She want the kids (adults in the 20s living on their own) to feel good about daddy and mommy. 
So, several times per year, (thanks giving, a birthday, vacation etc), the 'family' gets together like if nothing never happened.
The thing is, I'm now in her life.
Someone may think that she would keep me away to see him or family, but it's the inverse. She wants me to be a 'buddy' of her ex,
and wants me to be present at all their 'family's' events.

So, I'm there, looking at them remembering souvenirs, or planning things. Yes they try to talk to me a bit, but since they all live far away and don't see each other sometimes for several months, the discussion is mainly between 'the family',  and me I feel like a side show.

I'm not comfortable with all that and find that it is a lack of respect that even after I told her many times what my feelings were, she says,
it's because I'm Canadian, and in the US, divorced people stay friends, and women keep their husband's name.

I have difficulty to believe that, you know, Canada is not that far and we have very similar culture, so.

She loves me a lot. I love her a lot. But she comes with that 'baggage' and she wants me to swallow it, but it hurts me, I can't.

What do you think about that.
I'm not looking for a reason to end our relationship, but I hope she will, one day, change her behavior, and give herself 100% to me.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Lover_1

[basil67]

2 minutes ago, Lover_1 said:

I'm not comfortable with all that and find that it is a lack of respect that even after I told her many times what my feelings were

It could equally be argued that she's told you many times how she feels about this and that your lack of acceptance of her view is lack of respect for her.  She's probably also hoping that you will change your behaviour, accept her reasons and let the topic drop.

Anyway, I don't think it's a country thing.  I would imagine that over much of the world, there are divorced couples who can't stand each other, couples who are civil, and couples who get on well all living in the same country as each other.  In in Australia and in my case, I kept my ex-husband's name partly because I didn't want to do the paperwork and partly because I didn't want to go back to my maiden name (long story)   I did eventually change it to my partner's name though.  

Honestly, I think that she's got a point in the name change thing.  I'd really only be concerned if she would refuse to change her name if you got married.  All in all though, she does sound very much like she's given herself to you.  

 

[Lover_1]

8 minutes ago, basil67 said:

It could equally be argued that she's told you many times how she feels about this and that your lack of acceptance of her view is lack of respect for her.  She's probably also hoping that you will change your behaviour, accept her reasons and let the topic drop.

Anyway, I don't think it's a country thing.  I would imagine that over much of the world, there are divorced couples who can't stand each other, couples who are civil, and couples who get on well all living in the same country as each other.  In in Australia and in my case, I kept my ex-husband's name partly because I didn't want to do the paperwork and partly because I didn't want to go back to my maiden name (long story)   I did eventually change it to my partner's name though.  

Honestly, I think that she's got a point in the name change thing.  I'd really only be concerned if she would refuse to change her name if you got married.  All in all though, she does sound very much like she's given herself to you.  

 

Yes she's a very good person and I love her. 

I'm just not comfortable having her ex living in her house 7 days with us because he's visiting 'the family' or having him with us when we go on a short vacation. 

My view of that, is I could be a kind of step father for the children, and they would see us (without the ex) as a new family. 

But the mother is so afraid that her kids won't love her anymore if she starts not inviting the dad when the kids are visiting. So the problem comes from her, not being independent or confident enough. I think.

[basil67]

OK, definitely not cool to have him stay with you or go on family vacations!   100% with you on that.  It's also weird that she thinks the kids won't love her if she doesn't invite their father around when they are together.  Divorce isn't uncommon and they'd know perfectly well that the kids take turns with parents.

I feel like you're going to have to make a big decision here. 

[Alpacalia]

It sounds a bit too enmeshed.

Why do you need to be good buddies with her Ex? Sure, I can understand wanting to be cordial and friendly, but to pressure you in being good friends is just a lot to ask of you. And I don't understand the need to have you at all their family events, especially when you feel like a side show.

When I ended my engagement, I gave the ring back. I also made sure he respected my decision and stopped talking to him completely. Not that it stopped him from trying to creep back in but, still.

Of course, I understand every relationship is different and everyone handles their past differently, but it seems like your girlfriend is not fully letting go of her past and acknowledging that you are now a part of her present. I can understand keeping the last name, as it is a hassle to change, but the constant communication and insistence on keeping her wedding band is a bit odd. It seems like she is trying to keep you and her ex in separate compartments, rather than integrating you into her life as a whole.

It's not just about the US vs. Canadian views on divorced couples, sounds like a smoke screen, to me.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Alpacalia

[glows]

You’re not the “new family”, OP. You’re a blended family if it ever gets that far and it seems you and her have vastly different ideas of how to treat her kids. They don’t need a step dad at only 8 months of you dating their mother. You’re getting a bit ahead of yourself. Their father is active in their life and this relationship has not even passed the one year mark. 

You haven’t proposed to her and aren’t engaged - correct me if I’m wrong. So where do you get the idea that you have a role of step father? It doesn’t appear that they need or want a step father either being self sufficient and in their twenties, out of the house. 

I do think it’s inappropriate for him to be spending week long vacations at her home if you’re uncomfortable with it but it IS her home. She isn’t comfortable with your comments, it seems.

In regards to past wedding rings and names it’s common not to change it back to one’s maiden name. I’m in Canada and don’t believe it’s a Canadian/US issue. It’s ridiculous that she’s making it out to be a regional difference and dismissive towards you - perhaps in the same way you are dismissive towards what matters to her. The ring has sentimental value and I wonder if she’s so exasperated with you making demands or wanting to be in a “step father” role to 20 somethings that she blurted out she’d rather break up with you than argue further. 

At this age I thought one might be so much more relaxed and having lived all your lives so fully you’d both practice more acceptance. To hell with the rings and the daddy roles and all that. I hope you’re able to come to some compromise together. Otherwise respectfully go your separate ways. Life is too short to be in poor company.

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by glows

[Wiseman2]

5 hours ago, Lover_1 said:

We know each other for only 8 months, living in each others house full time depending of the time of the year.

Sorry this is happening. How did you meet? What inspired you to pursue a distance situation with all these complications?

While visiting each other for months at a time seems to work now, how would you eventually bridge the gap? 

Asking her to change her name back to her maiden name is unreasonable especially with kids. As far as her jewelry choices, it's weird but not really your call. Just observe.

As far as vacations and the ex staying at her house, that seems a bit too much. Is it possible for you not to visit while her family gets together at her house for holidays?  It's unreasonable that the ex needs to visit and stay there but unfortunately it seems like their family tradition. 

Since you have only been dating 32 weeks and it seems like too much too soon to be camping out at each other's places this much. There's already so much conflict about "baggage", however seniors with adult children are going to have a long history and past. 

None of this is cultural. It's her attachment to whatever family traditions they have which seem unusual and too close for comfort.

All you can do is step back and observe all these conflicts and obstacles and decide whether this is a viable situation and pick your battles.

For example, fussing about her maiden name is unreasonable but you seem to be overlooking major obstacles like being citizens of two different countries and the distance in general. 

[d0nnivain]

She's correct about the name thing.  When you divorce a name change can be part of the process but if you don't do it then in that context afterwards it's an expensive p.i.t.a.   Many people find it easier to have the same last name as the kids.   She gets a pass from me on this one. 

Stil wearing her wedding ring 10 years later & having these events where they are one big happy family is a problem.  

[BaileyB]

The name would not bother me at all.

The fact that she still wears his ring and expects you to accept that he will stay in her/your home when he visits - that would be a deal breaker for me.

I’m Canadian and I have a friend who is very friendly with her ex- husband - her kids, her ex-husband and his new wife/family, and her new partner have gathered for social and holiday events. But, nothing like what you are describing. There are no boundaries here, and that would be a problem for me.

Unfortunately for you, she has told you what she expects. The only decision that you have is whether to accept what she offers or to end the relationship. I would end the relationship. 

[BaileyB]

He must not have a new relationship because I can’t imagine that his wife would tolerate this kind of thing…

[stillafool]

10 hours ago, Lover_1 said:

it's because I'm Canadian, and in the US, divorced people stay friends, and women keep their husband's name.

They do, especially if they have children.  They want to have the same last name as their children.

[BaileyB]

10 hours ago, Lover_1 said:

in the US, divorced people stay friends, and women keep their husband's name.

I agree with everyone above. I’m Canadian, many people that I know stay friends and keep their married names (for convenience and because of the children). But, most have much better boundaries than this woman has with her ex husband. 

This isn’t a Canadian/US thing, the cultures are very similar and societal norms don’t differ in the way that she says…

[Lover_1]

4 hours ago, stillafool said:

They do, especially if they have children.  They want to have the same last name as their children.

But if we decide to marry one day, I would like her to have my name.

Are those women keeping their ex-husband name because they want the same name as their children open to take the new husband name, or their stick to the fact that they want to have the same name as their children?

 

[Lover_1]

4 hours ago, BaileyB said:

He must not have a new relationship because I can’t imagine that his wife would tolerate this kind of thing…

No he doesn't.

[Lover_1]

4 hours ago, BaileyB said:

The name would not bother me at all.

The fact that she still wears his ring and expects you to accept that he will stay in her/your home when he visits - that would be a deal breaker for me.

I’m Canadian and I have a friend who is very friendly with her ex- husband - her kids, her ex-husband and his new wife/family, and her new partner have gathered for social and holiday events. But, nothing like what you are describing. There are no boundaries here, and that would be a problem for me.

Unfortunately for you, she has told you what she expects. The only decision that you have is whether to accept what she offers or to end the relationship. I would end the relationship. 

Yes, that's what scares me. It seems to me that she will choose him/family gathering over me if I push it too much, which doesn't make sense to me.

The worst, is, since it is the family home they built when they married, he seems to be entitled to her. He acts like he is in his home. She told me that last year, he was there with friends, and at one point he told her: 'shouldn't you be inside preparing dinner?'  His friend was embarrassed, and said to her to stay, dinner can wait. And my girlfriend accepts that, scared to be rejected from the children if she cuts him from the family events.

[Lover_1]

9 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry this is happening. How did you meet? What inspired you to pursue a distance situation with all these complications?

While visiting each other for months at a time seems to work now, how would you eventually bridge the gap? 

Asking her to change her name back to her maiden name is unreasonable especially with kids. As far as her jewelry choices, it's weird but not really your call. Just observe.

As far as vacations and the ex staying at her house, that seems a bit too much. Is it possible for you not to visit while her family gets together at her house for holidays?  It's unreasonable that the ex needs to visit and stay there but unfortunately it seems like their family tradition. 

Since you have only been dating 32 weeks and it seems like too much too soon to be camping out at each other's places this much. There's already so much conflict about "baggage", however seniors with adult children are going to have a long history and past. 

None of this is cultural. It's her attachment to whatever family traditions they have which seem unusual and too close for comfort.

All you can do is step back and observe all these conflicts and obstacles and decide whether this is a viable situation and pick your battles.

For example, fussing about her maiden name is unreasonable but you seem to be overlooking major obstacles like being citizens of two different countries and the distance in general. 

You have good points. I won't ask her to change her name based on the comments I read here. But, if we get married, like she said she would like, for me it will be a non negotiable subject. I will want her to take my name. She already said that she would do it. Let's see.

We met on a dating app. I'm a snowbird, and met her in a hot climate, I will say...

For now, it works well because I want to avoid cold Canadian winters, and her, she want to avoid very hot, and humid, tropical weather, and also, rain and storms during summer. So she spends summer in Canada under a more moderate climate. She said to me that she sees ourselves in the future selling our houses and buying something together, near water, or a mountain. I'm touched that she sees a nice future for us, but, what will happen at Thanksgiving? The ex will come live in OUR house? For now, I keep myself from being exited too fast and will see how this Thanksgiving will go.

[Lover_1]

13 hours ago, glows said:

You’re not the “new family”, OP. You’re a blended family if it ever gets that far and it seems you and her have vastly different ideas of how to treat her kids. They don’t need a step dad at only 8 months of you dating their mother. You’re getting a bit ahead of yourself. Their father is active in their life and this relationship has not even passed the one year mark. 

You haven’t proposed to her and aren’t engaged - correct me if I’m wrong. So where do you get the idea that you have a role of step father? It doesn’t appear that they need or want a step father either being self sufficient and in their twenties, out of the house. 

I do think it’s inappropriate for him to be spending week long vacations at her home if you’re uncomfortable with it but it IS her home. She isn’t comfortable with your comments, it seems.

In regards to past wedding rings and names it’s common not to change it back to one’s maiden name. I’m in Canada and don’t believe it’s a Canadian/US issue. It’s ridiculous that she’s making it out to be a regional difference and dismissive towards you - perhaps in the same way you are dismissive towards what matters to her. The ring has sentimental value and I wonder if she’s so exasperated with you making demands or wanting to be in a “step father” role to 20 somethings that she blurted out she’d rather break up with you than argue further. 

At this age I thought one might be so much more relaxed and having lived all your lives so fully you’d both practice more acceptance. To hell with the rings and the daddy roles and all that. I hope you’re able to come to some compromise together. Otherwise respectfully go your separate ways. Life is too short to be in poor company.

 

Yes you're right. I'm not the new family. Also, the term step father was not good. (English is my second language). What I meant, is I would like the kids to know me more, and me know them more by doing things together, but if the father is there, of course he gets all the attention. For example, I see my daughter a specific day at XMas with my sister, mother etc. Then my daughter has another event with her mother and her family. The kids are in their 20s. They understand couples/divorce. They don't need the image of the perfect and happy mommy/daddy/couple that still have fun together. Well, that's my point of view.

[mark clemson]

I could see feeling uncomfortable about the sort of "family get togethers" you describe, depending on the specifics, and especially on top of everything else.

The fact that she wants you along shows that she intends to "integrate you" and so is presumably not e.g. cheating on you with the Ex or anything similar. Nevertheless, being buddies with the Ex (as she is) isn't for everyone - some folks would be fine with this but others not and you're in that latter camp.

It's only been 8 months. If you genuinely feel overall that she is too close to her Ex and/or there is "too much of her old self" in her lifestyle and habits, and for her part she expects you to "be fine with everything" then perhaps you and she are incompatible? Expecting her to change very much (at least on a shorter timeframe) may not be realistic. That essentially leaves you with the option to either adapt to the situation or leave it.

You may have moved to the co-habitation "phase" a bit too quickly here.

[stillafool]

1 hour ago, Lover_1 said:

But if we decide to marry one day, I would like her to have my name.

Are those women keeping their ex-husband name because they want the same name as their children open to take the new husband name, or their stick to the fact that they want to have the same name as their children?

 

They use hyphens.

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, Lover_1 said:

But if we decide to marry one day, I would like her to have my name.

I appreciate the sentimentality in the thought, but the woman is 60 years old. I’m not as old as her, but I am getting married next year, and I will not be changing my name. My name is my identity, and this has been her identity for 60 years now… 

She has already gone through the hassle of changing her name once. And, she avoided the hassle of changing her name back. I think you need to prepare yourself for the fact that she may not want to change her name - and that’s ok.

My soon to be husband has no expectation that I will change my name - he told me that he would prefer if I don’t. I have no intention of changing my name because it is a real hassle… and, it is my professional and personal identity. I just don’t see any benefit aside from the fact that it’s a rather old-fashioned, romantic thing to do…

As to the idea of hyphenation, I I think people hyphenate their maiden name and their husband’s name. I don’t know anyone who would hyphenate their ex-husband’s name with their new husband’s name… I don’t know what she will decide - keep her existing name, assume her maiden name again, or take your name… but, I don’t see her hyphenating her name. 

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, Lover_1 said:

I'm touched that she sees a nice future for us, but, what will happen at Thanksgiving? The ex will come live in OUR house?

Has she said that? Or are you just making the assumption? 

 

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, Lover_1 said:

I want to avoid cold Canadian winters, and her, she want to avoid very hot, and humid, tropical weather, and also, rain and storms during summer. So she spends summer in Canada under a more moderate climate. 

This sounds like a nice arrangement. Since it's only 8 mos, try to just observe what's going on.

The name and jewelry are not worth worrying about, however the ex being "part of the family" to the point of staying there and vacations together is not a comfortable situation.

You'll have to assess the situation as a whole because she is most likely set in her ways. Perhaps when your relationship matures and gets more serious she'll adjust things. Try to relax for now and pick your battles.

[glows]

8 hours ago, Lover_1 said:

Yes you're right. I'm not the new family. Also, the term step father was not good. (English is my second language). What I meant, is I would like the kids to know me more, and me know them more by doing things together, but if the father is there, of course he gets all the attention. For example, I see my daughter a specific day at XMas with my sister, mother etc. Then my daughter has another event with her mother and her family. The kids are in their 20s. They understand couples/divorce. They don't need the image of the perfect and happy mommy/daddy/couple that still have fun together. Well, that's my point of view.

I’m curious here. What if you’re wrong and it’s not about a perfect image? I know English is not your first language but the way this is being phrased is quite raw and it might be conveying what you feel in much more distilled and accurate way. What if it’s about simply spending time quality as a family and her kids are the ones choosing or requesting that they spend time with both their parents together? Although you keep saying they’re in their 20s you don’t seem to be affording them their own opinion or free will. It’s their choice as well and this arrangement works for them as a family. The decision may be being made collectively as a family and this is what they want. I think anyone new will have to respect that at the very least.

I suggest going forward avoiding criticizing the father there or present and don’t phrase it like this as if it’s the perfect image they’re after as it’s quite insulting to the family, I’d imagine. Focus more on spending time with your partner and figuring out whether you are compatible. Don’t make this out to be a relationship of convenience either avoiding hot and cold weathers. Then you’re just using one another and miserable because you can’t stand the other person or their beliefs/outlook, their family relationships. 

Regarding her old wedding ring she’ll have to want to take it off on her own and maybe it takes you accepting her and her family for her to want to take it off because right now it feels like an assault from all angles and being criticized for the way she lives and spends time with her family and what she chooses to wear. You both are so at odds that you never let your guard down and that’s usually when couples end or relationships fizzle out.

[Lover_1]

13 hours ago, glows said:

I’m curious here. What if you’re wrong and it’s not about a perfect image? I know English is not your first language but the way this is being phrased is quite raw and it might be conveying what you feel in much more distilled and accurate way. What if it’s about simply spending time quality as a family and her kids are the ones choosing or requesting that they spend time with both their parents together? Although you keep saying they’re in their 20s you don’t seem to be affording them their own opinion or free will. It’s their choice as well and this arrangement works for them as a family. The decision may be being made collectively as a family and this is what they want. I think anyone new will have to respect that at the very least.

I suggest going forward avoiding criticizing the father there or present and don’t phrase it like this as if it’s the perfect image they’re after as it’s quite insulting to the family, I’d imagine. Focus more on spending time with your partner and figuring out whether you are compatible. Don’t make this out to be a relationship of convenience either avoiding hot and cold weathers. Then you’re just using one another and miserable because you can’t stand the other person or their beliefs/outlook, their family relationships. 

Regarding her old wedding ring she’ll have to want to take it off on her own and maybe it takes you accepting her and her family for her to want to take it off because right now it feels like an assault from all angles and being criticized for the way she lives and spends time with her family and what she chooses to wear. You both are so at odds that you never let your guard down and that’s usually when couples end or relationships fizzle out.

May be it's not for the image for the kids as you say.

So, that means that it is for him, she really bonds to her ex?

Why wouldn't be possible that the kid s to see mommy and her new life partner for an event, then daddy and his new life partner (that he doesn't have) another day?

Why I have to witness my new love laughing with her ex remembering nice thinks?

You say: she wants to spend quality time with her family.

I think there is no more family. The parents are divorced. There is mom and the kids, daddy and the kids, but the family is exploded. 

The thing is, we are a compatible couple. 99% of how we think, what we do, we think the same, all goes well, except that part. We love each other.

To add a bit to it, her older daughter wants to go sailing like 10 days with the family. My girlfriend wants me to go with them. I'm not comfortable being with her ex for such a long time on a tiny boat. And letting my GF go alone, well, I question myself to what my GF is ready to do to please her kids? And if it is not to please the kids, if she really enjoys being with him that much for such a long period of time, well, that scares me even more. I start thinking that she loved him very much during 20 years, then s*** happened, they divorced, but she wants to keep the 'good' of him in her new life. She had a BF after her divorce, during 9 years of on-off relationship, and she told me that him also had a problem with her being so close to her ex. So, to me, my GF will need to reduce her contacts with him if she wants me to feel well in that new relationship.

And also, her daughter needs to stop to see mommy and daddy as a couple, that she can ask to go on a vacation with them. Mom and dad have a new life, new partners.

I was married 26 years. I had good time with my wife. I then divorced and on several years, I had 4 GF, that I also had fun and lovely time with them.

So, in theory, I could call back all these women and ask my GF to accept them in our new life?

I think when someone really wants to start a new life, he/she has to start on a clean slate.

Oh well. My GF often tells me: 'let it unroll'. So, I will tell her what hurts me, then we'll see.

 

Thank you all for the comments.

 

[Lover_1]

20 hours ago, BaileyB said:

Has she said that? Or are you just making the assumption? 

 

No she didn't say that. I'm just scared that this will be happening because her family including the ex, are very entitled toward her.