The wrong one has a crush on me

[basil67]

7 minutes ago, Thelambofdeth said:

You must not live in the US (well you did say "mates") bc many, many, many women by their own admission, will tell you how single they are bc of OLD. There's a perpetual cycle of women having "bad dates" bc they have so many options they never focus on one person bc they literally have thousands of likes, and messages so they're always playing the field. I mean that's the way dating sites are set up...not to have you find the ideal match but to keep you coming back to all you volume of options...not that it matters bc I'm neither young or able to use dating apps lol, but most will attest.

Yes I do accept that for some women 'choice overload' is a problem.  And you're correct that I don't live in the US.  But are you seriously suggesting that the majority of younger women in the US are single?  That there are few couples living together, buying houses, getting married, having babies? 

Why do you use inverted commas around "bad dates"?  If one of the couple doesn't feel it, then surely there's no point continuing

Edited October 25, 2023 by basil67

[d0nnivain]

You are fishing in the wrong pond.   on line dating sucks.  Even the most attractive people in the world have trouble.  It's the nature of the beast. 

In my 20s I was pretty hot.  If I set out to hookup on any given night odds are it would happen.  Granted women have it easier than men.  I was cute.  I'm flirty.  It was all easy. 

In my mid 30s coming off a long term relationship I had nobody to go out partying with & for the 1st time in my life was single outside of academia.  I didn't know what to do.  Everyone said try OLD so I did.  I put up cute pictures.  I wrote a pithy "about me" statement & I was open minded.  It was the most demoralizing experience of my life.  So much rejection.  OMG.  It sucked.  The whooping 3 men I agreed to meet because they were the only men who asked in 90 days, were awful.  If I had seen or talked to them in real life I would have been polite but frosty at best & never would have accepted a date from any of them.  The idea of kissing them made my stomach turn.   They were well educated nice people but no anybody I otherwise would have gone out with.  As soon as my trial membership was over I swore off OLD forever. 

I then set about finding things to attend so I could meet people.  Suddenly I had dates coming out my ears again, with successful, witty attractive people who were not the socially awkward losers guys I met online.  I crossed that mean word out but trust me there was something off about the men I met on line.  2 of them were lawyers so it wasn't like they had nothing going for them; they simply had no social skills. 

You got this attractive woman to like you for you IN PERSON.  That is something.  If you don't want to date her because you like her friend better, fine but please stop saying that you won't even try because she will eventually deem you unworthy for whatever reason.  Who knows, maybe with her, you will become more interesting.  My husband was a stick in the mud who stayed home & played MMORPG all the time.  🙄   he was a freakin' paperboy with a crappy car & still in college.   Now he has a college education, a great job he loves, and is a world traveler, who goes on vacation multiple times per year; enjoys the theater; has interesting conversations about current events; dines at unique restaurants; has adventures etc.  all because I drag him. 

Your own negative projections are the problem, not you the person.  

Edited October 25, 2023 by d0nnivain

[Thelambofdeth]

3 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Yes I do accept that for some women 'choice overload' is a problem.  And you're correct that I don't live in the US.  But are you seriously suggesting that the majority of younger women in the US are single?  That there are few couples living together, buying houses, getting married, having babies? 

Why do you use inverted commas around "bad dates"?  If one of the couple doesn't feel it, then surely there's no point continuing

Tbh I'm 30 I don't really care and it in no way impacts me if most younger women are single or not. And I haven't had a date in years, the last thing I know of is what couples are doing. But I do know the culture OLD and SM creates here. Just by trying to use dating sites and seeing the profiles and the miasma of reddit and forum threads made by people detailing their OLD woes.

Bc "bad dates" often equates to "I'm going to ghost this person I haven't even gave a real chance to be I have 30 other dates lined up". But again, I'm the last person to speak on dates.

[Thelambofdeth]

6 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

You are fishing in the wrong pond.   on line dating sucks.  Even the most attractive people in the world have trouble.  It's the nature of the beast. 

You got this attractive woman to like you for you IN PERSON.  That is something.  If you don't want to date her because you like her friend better, fine but please stop saying that you won't even try because she will eventually deem you unworthy for whatever reason.  Who knows, maybe with her, you will become more interesting.  My husband was a stick in the mud who stayed home & played MMORPG all the time.  🙄  Now he is a world traveler, who goes on vacation multiple times per year; enjoys the theater; has interesting conversations about current events; dines at unique restaurants; has adventures etc.  all because I drag him. 

Your own negative projections are the problem, not you the person.  

If it was that easy for you, then you have no idea where I'm coming from. Having the issue of too many options, isn't the same as literally none. Going on a dating sites and having tons of suitors and being able to get as many dates and sex partners as you like, at will...doesn't ensure to literally have no options with no way to ever date or meet people. "Problems" aren't created equally. Sure having high standards is an issue, but it's not comparable to have low standards and still having nothing.

The difference is choice. Women can go one dates and then choose to not use OLD bc men will approach them irl. I'm an ugly man with anxiety, so woman aren't going to approach me, and I'm too anxious to try to meet them....OLD would be perfect, but I'm literally too unattractive to use it so...I literally get nothing.

You don't understand bc you're super attractive or w/e. When something seems too good to be true, it always is. At least for me. People don't randomly date down when they don't have to, an attractive, successful, social, artist doesn't need to. Attractive, succcful men aren't endangered.

I'm the only one that loses in this scenario. Hypothetically, if we went on a couple of dates or w/e, she get bored and move on to all the better options she has and I'm back to nothing. Back to be dateless, with no options and now my self-esteem is even lower.  My only hope is to use this to gain some confident to gain agency to approach women in my league I have a shot with.

[basil67]

38 minutes ago, Thelambofdeth said:

 the last thing I know of is what couples are doing.

So you really haven't got a clue as to whether or not there are a heap of single women.

All in all, how does this debate relate to your first post?  I mean, you either go on a date with this attractive woman or respectfully decline.  But I guarantee that you miss 100% of the shots you don't take

[Thelambofdeth]

Just now, basil67 said:

So you really haven't got a clue as to whether or not there are a heap of single women.

All in all, how does this debate relate to your first post?  I mean, you either go on a date with this attractive woman or respectfully decline.  But I guarantee that you miss 100% of the shots you don't take

There are always single women as people are always breaking up and  relationships are always ending. But It doesn't matter if there are 10 billion single women or they're endangered...I have no way of meeting them, regardless.

The point is, it won't matter. If I decline or opt for a humoring it, it only delays the inevitable. I'm alone and dateless again. Ideally, I would like to make something of a woman possibly finding me attractive and gain some agency to find women just as boring as unattractive as me. I can guarantee there's single women in my league, and that's what I'm aiming for. Not a pipe dream.

[basil67]

Just now, Thelambofdeth said:

The point is, it won't matter. If I decline or opt for a humoring it, it only delays the inevitable. I'm alone and dateless again

If this is your attitude, it's 100% sure that you will remain alone and dateless. 

Just now, Thelambofdeth said:

Ideally, I would like to make something of a woman possibly finding me attractive and gain some agency to find women just as boring as unattractive as me. I can guarantee there's single women in my league, and that's what I'm aiming for. Not a pipe dream.

So why did you bother making this thread?  Just decline and move on

[Thelambofdeth]

5 minutes ago, basil67 said:

If this is your attitude, it's 100% sure that you will remain alone and dateless. 

So why did you bother making this thread?  Just decline and move on

It's not my attitude that makes me dateless..

And I literally asked in the very first post how to use this situation to be more confident with women. It's the point of the thread.

[Wiseman2]

9 minutes ago, Thelambofdeth said:

 I'm alone and dateless again. 

Why is your thread titled "The wrong one has a crush on me", if you claim you're undatable? If someone has a crush and you turn it down that's a conscious choice. 

[Thelambofdeth]

5 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Why is your thread titled "The wrong one has a crush on me", if you claim you're undatable? If someone has a crush and you turn it down that's a conscious choice. 

A crush is preliminary interest...it means they like the concept of you bc they dont know you yet. As soon as she got to know me, she'd bail bc the ratio of what we have to offer is imbalanced. 

I'm undateable bc I have no way to actually find women in my league I have a real shot with to date.

Edited October 25, 2023 by Thelambofdeth

[Weezy1973]

29 minutes ago, Thelambofdeth said:

And I literally asked in the very first post how to use this situation to be more confident with women. It's the point of the thread.

This situation won’t make you more confident. You have low self worth. You’re convinced that once someone gets to know the “real” you, they won’t love you. More to the point, you believe you’re unlovable. 
 

You could try dating without concern for the outcome. Don’t worry whether or not she likes you, just try to get to know her better. But that would take courage and a commitment to self improvement. You can do it, but will you?

[basil67]

35 minutes ago, Thelambofdeth said:

It's not my attitude that makes me dateless..

And I literally asked in the very first post how to use this situation to be more confident with women. It's the point of the thread.

I promise you that it is your attitude - if you expect to fail, then you WILL fail.   And honestly, your posts are dripping with negativity and no woman will stick around for that.  Fact is, there are unattractive men who have partners.  Look around you next time you go to a mall and see just how many there are.  Further, you say that you want a woman who's as unattractive and boring as you.  Thing is, if a woman of mediocre looks thinks that you see both her and yourself her as unattractive and boring, then even she won't stay with you.  I'm not saying she'd be delusional and expects to be found beautiful, but she will still want to feel valued....but "unattractive and boring" is not a way to value someone. 

In answer to your question, given that she's not your type and you believe she'd ditch you anyway, I don't imagine this will add to your confidence at all.   Have you tried working with a psychologist?  

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by basil67

[Thelambofdeth]

18 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

This situation won’t make you more confident. You have low self worth. You’re convinced that once someone gets to know the “real” you, they won’t love you. More to the point, you believe you’re unlovable. 
 

You could try dating without concern for the outcome. Don’t worry whether or not she likes you, just try to get to know her better. But that would take courage and a commitment to self improvement. You can do it, but will you?

I wouldn't assume that if she was a woman on my level. In my looks range and just as boring and mid as I am. Self awareness isn't a bad thing.  I don't believe I'm entirely unlovable, I'm just not delusonal..delusional...

Again, what does that do for me? Hypothetically, I could get my hopes up and try...but what happens afters it's over after like two dates once she's bored. I'm back to square one, even more jaded and less likely to ever take a chance again. But if she was someone in my league, I wouldn't have that issue.

[Thelambofdeth]

35 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I promise you that it is your attitude - if you expect to fail, then you WILL fail.   And honestly, your posts are dripping with negativity and no woman will stick around for that.  Fact is, there are unattractive men who have partners.  Look around you next time you go to a mall and see just how many there are.  Further, you say that you want a woman who's as unattractive and boring as you.  Thing is, if a woman of mediocre looks thinks that you see both her and yourself her as unattractive and boring, then even she won't stay with you.  I'm not saying she'd be delusional and expects to be found beautiful, but she will still want to feel valued....but "unattractive and boring" is not a way to value someone. 

In answer to your question, given that she's not your type and you believe she'd ditch you anyway, I don't imagine this will add to your confidence at all.   Have you tried working with a psychologist?  

 

My attitude isn't the reason the hundreds of women I like, swipe and message on dating apps don't even reply to me.

You know I really don't get it. All too often men are accused of being shallow and here I am trying to be pragmatic and reasonable,  and I'm scrutinized for that...those unattractive men with conventionally attractive women find a way to compensate. They're both "just ugly". They're well off, famous, successful, etc. They're found other areas to make up for their looks discrepancies.

And you don't get it...I find many unattractive women, attractive. I like weird, alternative women, so many "ugly" women I genuinely find attractive. And how would she know? I'm going to just go up to her and say "hey you're conventionally unattractive!". Not to mention she'd be thinking the EXACT SAME THING about me. I would still value her bc I would be comfortable around her bc we'd be if equal footing. Doesn't mean I can't find her attractive just bc she's ad mid as I am. Newsflash...most unattractive and boring people date people just as unattractive and  boring as them.

Considering she's pretty and successful, it should...

Edited October 26, 2023 by Thelambofdeth

[glows]

Hey Op so you’re an ugly guy 6’3 wearing nice clothes and smelling good?

I don’t know about leagues but I like down to earth people who smell good.

 

[basil67]

28 minutes ago, Thelambofdeth said:

My attitude isn't the reason the hundreds of women I like, swipe and message on dating apps don't even reply to me.

True.  It could be your presentation.  What percentage of your photos do you smile in?   How do you choose the women you message?

Quote

You know I really don't get it. All too often men are accused of being shallow and here I am trying to be pragmatic and reasonable,  and I'm scrutinized for that...those unattractive men with conventionally attractive women find a way to compensate. They're both "just ugly". They're well off, famous, successful, etc. They're found other areas to make up for their looks discrepancies.

And you don't get it...I find many unattractive women, attractive. I like weird, alternative women, so many "ugly" women I genuinely find attractive. And how would she know? I'm going to just go up to her and say "hey you're conventionally unattractive!". Not to mention she'd be thinking the EXACT SAME THING about me. I would still value her bc I would be comfortable around her bc we'd be if equal footing. Doesn't mean I can't find her attractive just bc she's ad mid as I am. Newsflash...most unattractive and boring people date people just as unattractive and  boring as them.

Looks and personality are all subjective.  Therefore if you find a woman attractive, then she's not ugly!  And if you enjoy her company, she's not boring!   But referring to others in this manner is a seriously unattractive trait. 

Quote

Considering she's pretty and successful, it should...

Have you tried discussing this with a psychologist?  Perhaps they'd have the answer

Edited October 26, 2023 by basil67

[Thelambofdeth]

2 minutes ago, basil67 said:

True.  It could be your presentation.  While you have every right to dress as you please, the further away an individual gets from social norms, they harder they find it go gain acceptance.   If you want an average women like yourself, you need to LOOK like an average guy.  

Looks and personality are all subjective.  Therefore if you find a woman attractive, then she's not ugly!  And if you enjoy her company, she's not boring!  

Have you tried discussing this with a psychologist?  Perhaps they'd have the answer

No its my face. 100% only ignore you if you're ugly. I've done everything to improve my profile from trying different pictures to researching bios, to lowering to standards to sending messages that callback to their profile to paying to for subs for more exposure. I'm just really unattractive. It has nothing to do with how I dress. 100% don't ignore you on dating sites bc you dress well lols. The issue I don't look average, not bc or my attire bc of my face.

Lol not how it works. I'm objective. Just bc I like something doesn't make it good and so on. I can still like or enjoy it, but I'm still going to be objective.

I don't believe in therapy. 

[Thelambofdeth]

6 minutes ago, basil67 said:

29 minutes ago, Thelambofdeth said:

My attitude isn't the reason the hundreds of women I like, swipe and message on dating apps don't even reply to me.

True.  It could be your presentation.  What percentage of your photos do you smile in?   How do you choose the women you message?

I've tried a couple where I smile. And I choose the ones I find attractive(that aren't out of my league) and women I have a lot of commonality and shared interests with. I go through their profile and look at all their pictures and always seen a sincere message that mentions something about their profile. On five different sites I can't get a single reply.

[basil67]

52 minutes ago, Thelambofdeth said:

I don't believe in therapy. 

If you don't believe that a psychologist can teach you how to alter your thought patterns, why are you asking us how to do it?

[Alpacalia]

12 hours ago, Thelambofdeth said:

Well I already kinda hinted I was interested. And it's not like I'm not interested...it's just...I'm too anxious and self conscious to consider the possibility 

Haven't read all the replies but if you're this anxious then it's a non-starter.

Work on your anxiety.

[Thelambofdeth]

9 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

Haven't read all the replies but if you're this anxious then it's a non-starter.

Work on your anxiety.

In this case its less to do with anxiety and just more that I don't have anything to offer her.

[d0nnivain]

You misunderstand me.  I could easily date IRL but couldn't make OLD work.  What I'm telling you is the medium is flawed.  You are not getting dates because OLD doesn't work.  

As for your belief that somebody dating you would be dating down that is your attitude & that is the problem.  You ask how to be more confident with women.  You have to start with being more self confident over all.  Everything you post screams that you have a massive self esteem problem.  That is not going to be corrected by reading a book or learning some PUA technique.  You seriously need to get into therapy & work from the ground up to figure out you got so screwed up in the 1st place.  Who warped your sense of self?  Once you understand when / where / how that damage was done, then again working with a mental health professional, you have to rebuild. 

[Thelambofdeth]

2 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

You misunderstand me.  I could easily date IRL but couldn't make OLD work.  What I'm telling you is the medium is flawed.  You are not getting dates because OLD doesn't work.  

As for your belief that somebody dating you would be dating down that is your attitude & that is the problem.  You ask how to be more confident with women.  You have to start with being more self confident over all.  Everything you post screams that you have a massive self esteem problem.  That is not going to be corrected by reading a book or learning some PUA technique.  You seriously need to get into therapy & work from the ground up to figure out you got so screwed up in the 1st place.  Who warped your sense of self?  Once you understand when / where / how that damage was done, then again working with a mental health professional, you have to rebuild. 

Anecdotes are anecdotal, though. Your personal example doesn't disqualify most people. Your example is an outlier not the norm. Millions of women use OLD...which in turn means millions are men are as well. Women usually have TOO many options. Literally hundreds, even thousands of likes, messages and matches. And this isnt just my take, I've seen women show me their profiles. Any forum like reddit or even here has tons of women talking about being inundated or bombarded with too many options. 

Any if you look at most threads or anything about dating or relationships where people mention how they met, 9/10 it's OLD. Most women have issues pilfering through all their options and blame all men for being "unworthy" but its their responsibility to go though them. And no, most men don't have anywhere NEAR the amout of suitors women do on there, but if they have realistic standards they can semi reliably find dates. Very few people are in my boat, where they literally can't even get a match. OLD does work in the sense it allow you to date and meet people...at least for the vast majority of people.

Also its different. You're  a woman. You can just go out and meet men bc they'll come to you. When you're a ugly man you have to do all the work, in a culture where women don't even want to be approached anymore. I basically have no way to meet women.

I'm not saying every woman would be dating down if she dated me, I'm saying successful pretty women obv out of my league...not ALL women. And I don't need therapy bc I already know why my self esteem is warped. Its bc having all the hundreds, maybe thousands of women I message and like on OLD ignoring me and getting virtually nothing. For years, despite all the effort I put into my profile and being totally dateless, invisible and segregated to women great lowers your self esteem. How I can I ever expect a woman will be interested in me when I can even get their attention on dating apps where they're looking to date?? Very few people can ever understand that.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Thelambofdeth

[mark clemson]

Ok - IF you genuinely have an unattractive face that probably does make it more difficult. I honestly can't tell if your self-assessment is accurate or these are your insecurities talking.

Compensating with nice clothes and fitness is helpful. It's clear you have had some substantive nibbles in real life on whatever fishing line you are putting out, so you are doing something right.

I wouldn't take the online nonsense about dating standards too seriously. A lot of those "proponents" are people with issues that make them not right for relationships hiding behind the "lists" and finding justifications for their dysfunction. Anything but admit the problem is actually them. NEVER take Reddit too seriously - a lot of seriously fuxxed up people think it's their place to give everyone else advice over there.

In reality, like men, women who actually want relationships tend to become less fussy as they age and as a guy your "value" tends to last a bit longer in the adult dating pool, esp. if you maintain yourself. At a certain point your face becomes less of an issue. There is still quite a bit more hope than you probably realize. I would try to be open to actually carrying through on date opportunities that come along, and avoid doing things that sabotage it, like talking yourself down too much, etc.

I think this specific lady wanted a ONS or fling or similar with you but was ambivalent about it. The comment about boundaries was just her justification for changing her mind, and it seems she doesn't have good skills at exiting a situation gracefully. Oh well...

Edited October 26, 2023 by mark clemson

[Weezy1973]

5 hours ago, Thelambofdeth said:

In this case its less to do with anxiety and just more that I don't have anything to offer her.

So you, and other men have very similar stories and some post here. We do see this pattern fairly often. And here’s your answer:

 

The core issues is a lack of self-worth; that is believing at your core that you’re not worthy of being loved.  Likely this is a by-product of childhood - either due to your family of origin or perhaps school experiences such as being bullied etc.

Your low self-worth lead to social anxiety which is the fear of being reject and / or being humiliated. Because you already have the “wound” of low self-worth, rejection and humiliation make the pain of the wound even greater.

The primary coping mechanism for social anxiety is avoidance. That means you will avoid situations in which you might be rejected or humiliated. And your brain will pretty much automatically come up with reasons not to get into those situations. That’s what you’re doing here with these women. 
 

While there’s no cure for social-anxiety, avoidance is actually one of the worst things you can do. While you do get short term relief from the anxiety, in the long run it just leads to feeling more anxious in more situations. Conversely, the best thing you can do is force yourself to get into those situations which serves two purposes: 1) Desensitizes you so as you get into more and more situations where you might be rejected or humiliated, your body doesn’t reacted as much and 2) Cognitively you realize that even when you are rejected it isn’t a life sentence. You don’t die from it. 
 

The longer you avoid dating and asking women out on dates, the harder it’s going to get. My advice would be to just ask out the woman you’re interested in. Don’t worry about what you have to offer. Let her decide that as you date. And at the same time you can assess if she offers what you’re looking for. 
 

However I suspect you will respond to this with all the reasons why you won’t ask her out. Your brain is working hard to keep you “safe”. But let’s face it, really, asking a woman out on a date carries no danger. That’s why they call them anxiety disorders - your body reacts as though it’s a life and death situation when it isn’t. And that why, if you want to build your confidence, you’ll need to force yourself to ask women out, even when you’re not feeling confident. Fake it till you make it.