A Love Story of Two Worlds

[Wiseman2]

55 minutes ago, MBar said:

 I don't want her to sacrifice her beliefs or the people she loves for me. I'm trying to see the positive side of this breakup, 

Did you break up? The positive side of this breakup (if that is what you mean) is that she may be free of danger because you wanted her to conform to your idea of world peace and be with you even though it's difficult if not impossible for her from the perspective of her religion culture and people. 

[MBar]

On 10/27/2023 at 5:52 AM, BaileyB said:

Sounds to me like you are doing what’s best for you, placing her at risk.

I don't want to make any decisions right now. She's free to live her life, and I love her, so I want her to be happy! One important thing I learned in this relationship is that I won't decide on something unless I'm at least 51% sure about what will happen. Our relationship began with a decision that was only 50% certain.

I'll never make a decision that puts her in danger. Her health and safety are more important to me than my own happiness.

Thank you.

 

[Wiseman2]

8 minutes ago, MBar said:

I'll never make a decision that puts her in danger. 

You were putting her in danger for 5 years and needing to sneak around behind her parents back in order to see or communicate with you. You simply can't accept or respect the tenets and restrictions of her culture and religion. 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Wiseman2

[MBar]

15 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Is she at risk for honor killing or other severe punishment? It's sad you're willing to put her in danger for your own romantism. You may not agree, but I feel this is selfish and about ego and not about a love story or love. If you love someone you don't put them in danger to accommodate your beliefs. 

 

I won't ever risk her safety. When you love someone, their health, safety, and happiness come first. I don't think so, but they might want her to quit her job and stay at home, as I mentioned before.

[MBar]

14 hours ago, Gaeta said:

There is no we in this story. YOU risk nothing! she does not only risk everything she is also putting herself in danger, of physical and emotional severe consequences. You don't even share 1% of what she'll be facing. It's pretty arrogant of you to use the *we risk*.

There's a lot behind the words "we". I have a significant responsibility to my family. If she is at risk, then I am too. However, I understand that this is more about her, and I acknowledge that I cannot and will not put her at any risk. I can't even ask her family because I'm concerned that it might even put her in harm's way.

Her health and safety are my top priorities.

[MBar]

26 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Did you break up? The positive side of this breakup (if that is what you mean) is that she may be free of danger because you wanted her to conform to your idea of world peace and be with you even though it's difficult if not impossible for her from the perspective of her religion culture and people. 

We've decided to support each other, and we declared that we're free to make our own decisions from now on. However, despite everything that has happened, as I mentioned, it's been around 60 days, and neither of us has fully recovered.

I do agree, though, that one of the significant and positive aspects is that she is free from danger. Thank you for acknowledging that!

 

[MBar]

19 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

You were putting her in danger for 5 years and needing to sneak around behind her parents back in order to see or communicate with you. You simply can't accept or respect the tenets and restrictions of her culture and religion. 

Certainly, I reject the notion that one cannot marry outside their religion. While I respect diverse perspectives, I believe in fostering communication and understanding to offer choices rather than rigidly adhering to prohibitions. It's essential to avoid being confined to a single belief.

I was transparent about my interactions; everyone, except her father and uncles, was informed. Her aunts and others were aware of the situation. Despite the potential risk, the peril lies not in the five-year relationship but in the proposal for marriage.

Certainly, one of her relatives married outside her religion over 50 years ago, and despite the passage of time, her family continues to maintain a silent stance towards her. I forgot to mention this earlier.

[Wiseman2]

14 minutes ago, MBar said:

 I reject the notion that one cannot marry outside their religion. 

Then you are rejecting her, her people, her family, her traditions, her beliefs and her culture. You simply seem to see your philosophy as superior. 

[BaileyB]

58 minutes ago, MBar said:

Certainly, I reject the notion that one cannot marry outside their religion.

As do I. 

Then problem is, you are in love with a woman who comes from a culture and a family that has a different belief.

In some parts of the world, women have the notion that they should be able get an education, hold a job, and drive a car - and still, there are examples of women being stoned to death for attempting to do so. I just read a story about a teenage girl in Iran who has died after attempting to ride the subway without a head scarf. 

Again, it’s very naive of you to think that because you believe differently, these kind of societal and cultural norms can be easily changed or disregarded. 

 

 

[MBar]

3 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Then you are rejecting her, her people, her family, her traditions, her beliefs and her culture. You simply seem to see your philosophy as superior. 

She also lacks faith in her own cultural belief...

[MBar]

3 hours ago, BaileyB said:

As do I. 

Then problem is, you are in love with a woman who comes from a culture and a family that has a different belief.

In some parts of the world, women have the notion that they should be able get an education, hold a job, and drive a car - and still, there are examples of women being stoned to death for attempting to do so. I just read a story about a teenage girl in Iran who has died after attempting to ride the subway without a head scarf. 

Again, it’s very naive of you to think that because you believe differently, these kind of societal and cultural norms can be easily changed or disregarded. 

 

 

 

Okay, but she doesn't believe in all of this either. Yes, her family allows her to work, drive, and wear whatever she wants. She even became the top student in her studies. It's very strange! Still, I don't think her family would go that far, but they might stop talking to her. Our decision now is not to hurt anyone's feelings. Her family needs her a lot because she helps them both financially and at home. 

There is no Honour in ki*****  I don't even want to spell out the whole word. 

[MBar]

9 hours ago, S2B said:

You are attempting a losing battle. Better to cut your losses and move forward.

like you said - otherwise you are putting her at risk or worse.

her family needs her help in the home and financially… she’s not likely to just end the needs of her family - and that trumps everything and everyone in these cultures.

run! 

I am committed to supporting and assisting her through the challenges that lie ahead in her life. As I mentioned before, I have granted her the freedom to move on! 

 

[ExpatInItaly]

13 minutes ago, MBar said:

I am committed to supporting and assisting her through the challenges that lie ahead in her life

This is a sweet but very naive sentiment. 

She won't keep in contact with you forever. Eventually, she will marry within her culture and I guarantee you that she won't be in touch with you anymore after that. 

[MBar]

1 hour ago, ExpatInItaly said:

This is a sweet but very naive sentiment. 

She won't keep in contact with you forever. Eventually, she will marry within her culture and I guarantee you that she won't be in touch with you anymore after that. 

I am committed to being there for her as a friend until the day she finds someone else. Our friendship is valuable to me, and I want to offer my support and care regardless of the changes life may bring! 

[ExpatInItaly]

You are kidding yourself if you think it won't hurt you a lot the day she cuts you off because she has another man. 

 

[MBar]

4 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

You are kidding yourself if you think it won't hurt you a lot the day she cuts you off because she has another man. 

 

It's true that the prospect of someone you care about moving on can be challenging and emotional. While I can't predict the future! I choose to focus on the present and value the time we have together. If the day comes when she finds someone else, it may be difficult, but I believe in my ability to handle those emotions and continue to wish her happiness. Life is full of changes, and I aim to approach them with understanding and resilience.

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, MBar said:

I am committed to supporting and assisting her through the challenges that lie ahead in her life. As I mentioned before, I have granted her the freedom to move on

You are not in charge of "granting her freedom". She is. Do you mean you broke up or backed off for her safety? 

Additionally if communication with you is not approved in her culture,why are you continuing? 

Do you work or go to school together? What exactly is the basis of how you see each other and communicate? 

 

[MBar]

6 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

You are not in charge of "granting her freedom". She is. Do you mean you broke up or backed off for her safety? 

Additionally if communication with you is not approved in her culture,why are you continuing? 

Do you work or go to school together? What exactly is the basis of how you see each other and communicate? 

 

 

She is uncertain about the course of action and departing is more complex for her than it may seem. Thus, "granting her freedom" signifies my endorsement to empower her to be self-reliant even beyond our relationship. Communication is permitted, but marriage is not. We have completed our studies. We communicate through the phone, acknowledging the constraints of our technological era! 

[MBar]

14 minutes ago, S2B said:

Does her family know she communicates with you?

 I think hasn’t she married? Her culture normally marries VERY young! Like 13-15 years old - but you describe someone older.

Exclude her dad and uncles from the expectation of knowing everything! She left her community at a young age as they reside far away and do not adhere to such practices. Although early-age marriages were once common among her people, this is now a rare occurrence as societal norms have shifted.

 

[MBar]

11 hours ago, S2B said:

So why don’t her dad and uncle know about you when other family members know?

are any of her siblings married?

They believe we're only friends.

No, they are kids! 

[Gaeta]

On 10/29/2023 at 8:38 AM, MBar said:

 I choose to focus on the present and value the time we have together. If the day comes when she finds someone else

If you love her and her happiness matters you will stop all communication and allow her to move on. No, she is not moving on emotionally until you remain in her life even under the form of phone communication. You are simply slowing the process for her. She is 25, she needs to find a suitable partner before her community/religion consider her too old to be a good wife material.

Although you don't see it, you are still standing in the way. You need to let her go for her but also for yourself. 

[MBar]

13 hours ago, Gaeta said:

If you love her and her happiness matters you will stop all communication and allow her to move on. No, she is not moving on emotionally until you remain in her life even under the form of phone communication. You are simply slowing the process for her. She is 25, she needs to find a suitable partner before her community/religion consider her too old to be a good wife material.

Although you don't see it, you are still standing in the way. You need to let her go for her but also for yourself. 

Does being otherwise imply that I lack love for her and that her happiness is of no concern to me?!

 

[Gaeta]

1 hour ago, MBar said:

Does being otherwise imply that I lack love for her and that her happiness is of no concern to me?!

There are all kinds of love. 

There is selfless love and selfish love. 

Selfless love is letting go of any reward for yourself, like her friendship, so she can fully move on and embrace a new man/new relationship without any emotional hold back 'like your friendship'. Because this friendship is just a way of not fully letting go.  Selfless love means I love you so much I will completely free you of me so you can live/love with someone else without any hold back because of me.

Selfish love is how can you keep her in your life because you cannot imagine a life without her so you keep her under the disguise of a friend so you still talk to her, still know what's going on in her life, and still have an input in what is happening in her life. That's selfish, it's not meant to be kind to her, it's meant to serve you and your feelings and still getting a dosage of her. As long as you're 'friends' she will have a hard time moving on, that 'hard time' is caused by you not cutting your link. 

Edited October 31, 2023 by Gaeta

[MBar]

3 hours ago, Gaeta said:

There are all kinds of love. 

There is selfless love and selfish love. 

Selfless love is letting go of any reward for yourself, like her friendship, so she can fully move on and embrace a new man/new relationship without any emotional hold back 'like your friendship'. Because this friendship is just a way of not fully letting go.  Selfless love means I love you so much I will completely free you of me so you can live/love with someone else without any hold back because of me.

Selfish love is how can you keep her in your life because you cannot imagine a life without her so you keep her under the disguise of a friend so you still talk to her, still know what's going on in her life, and still have an input in what is happening in her life. That's selfish, it's not meant to be kind to her, it's meant to serve you and your feelings and still getting a dosage of her. As long as you're 'friends' she will have a hard time moving on, that 'hard time' is caused by you not cutting your link. 

Thanks for explaining. I want to hear your thoughts on what real love means to you. Also, what do you think about the idea that letting her go means I'm just giving up? I'm usually optimistic, so I don't see it as a situation where we have to completely cut ties.

Thanks.

[MBar]

6 hours ago, S2B said:

[ ] 

if you really loved her - you would end it and allow her to be safe for her future.

date women in your area- close to home. 

[ ] 

I'm not in a hurry or set on being with a woman. I know there are plenty of other opportunities, as someone mentioned earlier in the conversation. But the main point of our talk is to understand why there's so much negativity in the world. "We often think small, like the frog at the bottom of the well. It believes the sky is only as big as the top of the well. If it came out, it would see a completely different view." We're all human, and there's no real difference between us, so why the social classes? We should share love and help each other.

Edited October 31, 2023 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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