We have such STRONG opposing opinions. Can this still work?

[Eliza033]

Trigger warning - discussion of sexual assault and r8pe culture

 

So I (F20) have been together with my boyfriend (M20) for four years now. Overall, we have a very healthy relationship. Lots of great open communication, we always get along great all the time (even for long extended periods of time) and overall he treats me amazingly. However over the last year or so i've been noticing that when it comes to a certain topic, we seem to have very different values and opinions. 

 

I consider myself a feminist, so I feel very strongly about how horrible victim blaming and r8pe culture is... but I'm kind of starting to suspect that my boyfriend is part of this problem. That is - not to say in ANY way that he himself is a r8pist - but rather his belief that women can "put themselves into those situations" by wearing "revealing" clothing or just going clubbing in general. He says that of course he agrees it's not right, but the victim needs to take at least SOME of the blame (using the analogy that if you walk down a shady street with 2 million dollars in your pocket, even though the robber is in the wrong, you were still stupid for getting into that situation). 

 

I VERY strongly disagree with his ideology, as I believe that the only person responsible for a r8pe is the [] r8pist who CHOSE to harm another human being. I also think that by people spreading this narrative of "well what was she wearing" is harmful to victims and is just another way society is trying to blame women for the disgusting behaviour of [some] MEN. I also think that it causes victims of assault to be less likely to come forward and report the attack for fear of being shamed and interrogated.

This all started two years ago when I moved on campus at my University. I went shopping with some of my friends and they encouraged me to buy a corset top. Something I wouldn't usually opt to buy, however we were all going out later that night and we wanted to be matching. When my boyfriend saw my outfit, he asked if I would change because the outfit made him feel uncomfortable. I agreed to do this because I didn't see it as a big deal, but when I asked him why he wanted me to change, he said it was because he didn't like me wearing things like that without him there because he wouldn't be there to protect me and he didn't want me to get r8ped. I told him I don't think my outfit would have anything to do with it, to which he replied that I was being naive about the subject. This caused our first argument in two years of dating, after which we agreed to just not comment on what each other is wearing in general, but be conscious of our partners feelings. 

 

However since then, the topic has come up from time to time whenever I am getting dressed up to go out with my friends. In my opinion, the outfits I choose are not all that outrageous anyway, with maybe just a bit of cleavage showing at most. But earlier today, I hit a breaking point as I was discussing what to wear to a friends house party. It's fancy dress as it's for halloween, and he casually dropped "Just don't dress like [ ]  If you do and you get raped, don't be surprised when I say I told you so." I was shaken with what he had said. The sad part is I believe him that he GENUINELY would say "I told you so" or some equivalent if I was raped wearing a dress. He then continued to say that I was "living in fairyland" and seeing the world how I wish it was rather than how it actually is. I asked if he was saying he thought I was an idiot, and he said no he knows I'm not, which is why he gets to frustrated I see the world this way. It began as a difference in opinion but now - I wonder if I can be with someone who would do something like that. I'm pretty hurt by what he said and I know that he really means it. He sees it as a matter of my safety, which is why he is so firm on his stance on the matter. 

The funniest part is that before I moved to my University and we would go out as a couple all the time, he would ENCOURAGE me to wear extremely revealing dresses and outfits. He argues this is different because he was with me and could therefore protect me. 

Also just to be clear - my boyfriend is very much not a controlling man. He is always very respectful of my boundaries, gives me space to hang out with my friends, doesn't constantly text me the whole night while I'm out or anything like that. 

I find it so hard because we get along in literally EVERY other way. But I feel so passionately about this - I don't know what to do. Please give me advice. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
offensive term/language

[basil67]

When I was your age (naive in the 1980's), I may have tolerated this opinion.  But now I'm easily old enough to be your mother and I know that females ranging from children to women in unattractive clothing to aged women all get raped, so obvious that it has nothing to do with clothing.  And as such, his opinion would be a dealbreaker for me.  Even more so when he stated that his response if it happened to you would be "I told you so".   If the two of you had children, is this the lesson you want him giving to your children?

Also, as per his example of a person with 2 million in their pocket...they are likely to have it it deeply hidden in their clothing, so it's not a fair comparison.  And my insurance company will still cover me if I forget to lock a window or door when I'm out and get robbed

Edited October 27, 2023 by basil67

[Wiseman2]

40 minutes ago, Eliza033 said:

 before I moved to my University and we would go out as a couple all the time, he would ENCOURAGE me to wear extremely revealing dresses and outfits. He argues this is different because he was with me and could therefore protect me.  - my boyfriend is very much not a controlling man. 

Sorry this is happening. Unfortunately you've been together for too long and way too young. Now that you are away at university, try to be more independent and confident.

For example it's strange you discuss your outfits with a BF in the first place. Or expect his input or opinions. 

You mentioned "he's not a controlling man", but actually this is what this is all about more so than politics or feminism.

Reflect on your relationship and if you have outgrown each other.  Please also read up on red flags for controlling relationships. Including the derogatory terminology he uses with regard to insinuating how you dress indicates promiscuity. Dictating what you wear is part of that even if he dresses it up with male-privilege and patronizing remarks. 

Please talk to a campus counselor and read up on relationship and dating red flags. Reconsider dating someone like this.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Wiseman2

[giotto]

Sorry, I would dump your boyfriend and his prehistoric opinions. 

[d0nnivain]

Rape is about power not clothing or fashion.   The fact that your BF wants to dictate what you wear, does make him controlling  

You & others on here will tell me that I am victim blaming but I firmly believe that people do have some obligation to keep themselves safe by taking reasonable precautions & making smart choices.   Using your analogy of walking down the alley with $2M & getting robbed, that was preventable.  There are so many better ways to transfer that kind of money   Similarly being aware of one's surroundings, staying in groups when you have been drinking & not trusting every guy you just met on a night out can reduce your risks. If I was in college now I would absolutely use those coasters that test for GHB in drinks.   I am NOT saying that anyone ever asks to be sexually assaulted or robbed but you have to keep yourself safe. 

In college I met a cute guy at a party.  We danced, drank & flirted.  When the party ended he invited me to breakfast.  I was excited.  On the way to the diner he said he forgot his wallet back at his place so we went there to get it.   At his place we started making out.  Ok, fine.  We ended up on top of the bed, fully clothed.  I'm still enjoying myself.  Then he started to grope me.  I said no.  Then he tried to take off my clothes. I said no more firmly.   Then he pinned me to the bed.  He was a foot taller than me & 100 lbs heavier.  I didn't have choice.   I got sober real fast & using my brains convinced him I needed to be on top & wanted to give him a massage.  That role reversal enabled me to get out of there without being assaulted but it taught me a lot about the choices I made.   

Only you can decide if you want to continue dating your BF.  His heart may be in the right place (caring about your safety) but the idea that he can dictate how you live your life is off putting.  

Edited October 27, 2023 by d0nnivain

[Gaeta]

You started dating he was a boy (16) and with no idea what type of man he'll become. This is who he's becoming, it might not be compatible with who you're becoming. The good news is you are both 20 and are not done changing, learning and growing. 

Rapists act on opportunities, a woman walking alone, an unlocked door, being stupidly drunk & vulnerable at a party, etc. It has nothing to do with being provocatively dresses or not. I think your boyfriend talks out of ignorance, possibly influenced by things he hears in his friends group, social medias, etc  he needs to be educated on the subject. By the way many women were raped while their boyfriend were held at gun point next to them. Again, a crime of opportunity, couple is alone in a remote area like in a park, makes me laugh when I read he'll protect you. 

I'd tell him I don't want to be the woman who's boyfriend carries the most ignorant speech on this subject especially after all we know on this topic nowadays. He needs to get out of 1953 and make a jump to 2023.

[Els]

I would think long and hard about being in a relationship with this person if I were you. The problem is that while this is currently a theoretical discussion that doesn't affect your life, it demonstrates a fundamental issue with how he views women and consent, and I would be very surprised if it didn't eventually get to the point where he says or does something far worse. Honestly, it sounds like he's a budding alt-right (manosphere, MGTOW, whatever you wanna call it) recruitee, and while he may be "mild" right now, that community tends to function like a gateway drug, and people in it often get more and more radicalised.

There are things that my husband and I disagree on, for sure - we are individuals, after all. But never something fundamental like this. This isn't just a disagreement IMO, it's flat out misogyny, controlling behaviour and caveman mentality.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Els