Married female drunk with new colleagues

[Wfj2176]

Writing to get perspective about something that happened with my wife. She went on a work trip. And the last night went out for dinner then drinks with co workers. Usually we both check in in this instance. The dinner went till 9 or so. She then went to the bar with 5 male co workers she met this week (however she didn’t tell me this was the group until the next day). By 11:30pm I had texted as she usually is in by then just seeing if she was ok as it was out of ordinary to not say I’m back. She didn’t respond. By midnight I decided to call thinking she had simply went to her room and went to bed. Instead she answered. But would barely speak. She was clearly out at the bar still and slurring her a speech. I asked who she was with (our of concern she would get back safely to her room). She said her team. Very short answer. Could hear all male voices in background. I asked if she was going up soon. She then hung up on me with no context. I waited up till 1:30am. She texted me she had had too much to drink. So I called to see if she was back. I calmly explained I was worried and she responded with “I’ll do whatever the f_ck I want to do.” And hung up again. For context. We have been trying to have a baby through ivf. She also told me a few weeks before this that if that didn’t work she likely would not stay with me. The following day she argued that I was at fault for “implying” she had done something wrong. She then relayed she didn’t recall the discussion with me or hanging up. She did remember saying she would do whatever she wanted. When she returned from the trip I explained all that she said and did. She apologized. Said she felt bad. At this point I asked who she was out with and she explained it was all male co workers who also were drunk on whiskey. Given all of this I asked her if she had been faithful (in mind heart which was hurting I was dreading asking, even thinking about it made me sick). She told me how dare I even ask that. That she can’t see how we could stay married if that’s how I see her. Which is strange cause I had never seen her that way. Even in asking I didn’t. But all that happened and what she had said a few weeks earlier felt like I had to ask. So despite my wife not checking in, getting very very drunk with male co workers she barely new till 1:30am and hanging up on me twice. She feels I am at fault. I am asking this group to help me with perspective. She is painting me as over reactor and not trusting. I responded with I don’t have security given her own words and behavior. I just need guidance if I am in the wrong. Or if my wife’s behavior warranted the question. Ultimately. I love her very much. And didn’t see any of this coming. 

[NuevoYorko]

How long have you been married?

It sounds like there are some deep troubles in your marriage.  I get this impression mainly from her telling you that she would probably leave you if she doesn't get pregnant through IVF.   

Why would you and she both keep up trying if your marriage is at the point where she is ready to leave?  I know that IVF can be stressful and put a huge strain on a marriage but if she has one foot out the door already,  is this a good situation in which to bring a child?

The events of the work trip really seem secondary.

[Wfj2176]

1 1/2 yrs. There are troubles yes. And deep rooted. We’ve been working through problems for awhile and have made progress in my opinion. She said that comment was a result of the ivf having an effect on her hormones and took it back. But it’s had a lasting effect on me. Right now the work issue is primary. 
 

[Wiseman2]

45 minutes ago, Wfj2176 said:

She was clearly out at the bar still and slurring her a speech. I asked who she was with (our of concern she would get back safely to her room). She said her team. Very short answer. Could hear all male voices in background. I asked if she was going up soon. She then hung up on me with no context

Sorry this is happening. How old is she? Does she have problems with drinking?  Unfortunately your marriage seems troubled and accusing her of cheating certainly didn't help. 

While her being out partying late and drinking with coworkers may have annoyed you, jumping to accusations of infidelity with zero proof whatsoever doesn't seem like there's a lot of trust or respect in the relationship. 

Have you considered marriage therapy? It's unclear why you're trying to conceive if your marriage is this toxic and you two aren't going to therapy. 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Wiseman2

[glows]

Why can’t you drop it and let her have a good time with her colleagues? Would it have made a difference if they were female? Let this go. She’s safe and she can handle herself. You should trust her if you’re expecting this woman to be the mother of your child. Why would you impregnate any woman whose judgment you don’t trust?

[Wfj2176]

Thanks. She is 40. I am 47. Drinking has caused problems for sure. As for lack of trust. I said I don’t have trust based on her comment about leaving. I wouldn’t say annoyed. Getting hung up on. Her not remembering doing it then staying out another hour and a half while being so drunk she is slurring I find very disrespectful and more importantly so worrisome.  The statement I’ll do whatever the f_uck I want to” before she hung up on me the last time and lying about who she was out with all added up to me. And that is why I’m asking because I don’t believe someone’s wife should be in that situation or treat their husband that way. We both are in individual therapy. She recently shared an attachment style of fearful avoidant with me. We had a couples therapist but she felt he was biased against her perspectives. It was Gottman based. 

[Wfj2176]

Not sure I agree a female by herself who is so drunk she is slurring and with 5 guys at 1:30am is automatically safe and in a position to take care of her self in that environment with people she just met. I never had a trust issue before the comment she made about leaving. I agree about trust and pregnancy which is why I started this thread. To get perspective on what happened. 

[glows]

5 minutes ago, Wfj2176 said:

Not sure I agree a female by herself who is so drunk she is slurring and with 5 guys at 1:30am is automatically safe and in a position to take care of her self in that environment with people she just met. I never had a trust issue before the comment she made about leaving. I agree about trust and pregnancy which is why I started this thread. To get perspective on what happened. 

They’re not just 5 guys. They’re professionals she works with and she is not just 1 female. She is also a professional having drinks and out with fellow colleagues. I get the feeling there’s not much respect for her in general and if I am sensing it I’m sure she does also. I do feel for you and what is happening but you’re letting your jealousy and insecurity drive both of you further apart. The thing to do here IS trust her and trust her judgment. Otherwise put a stop to the IVF. It makes no sense why you’re both having this child when you can’t respect one another.

Edited October 28, 2023 by glows

[Wfj2176]

Sorry. Forgot the one question about if it were females would it have made a difference?  Well. I guess a few things. If it wasn’t 1:30am and very drunk. Then that before any gender would’ve made the biggest difference. Then yes. Being in that state at that time with the other behaviors plus being with 5 guys was concerning. So even having one female with her would’ve been helpful. She herself doesn’t ever leave a friend by themself at the bar late like that. 

[glows]

I can see your concern. I would worry as well if I cared about someone out like this and also feel put off if they spoke to me the way she spoke to you. I don’t think it’s right that she’s chalking it up to hormones either. That’s what I meant as well by both of you not respecting each other. I want to clarify that she’s not respectful to you and it’s dismissive just using hormones for an excuse. I agree she shouldn’t speak to you that way. 

I also think focusing on these men (not random guys but colleagues she works with) and that she was out with them is focusing on the wrong thing. She disrespects you and it makes you insecure. That’s very clear. You distrust her and she lashes out at you. It’s a terrible toxic cycle and way to treat one another. Is there any way to start respecting one another more…?

[Wiseman2]

22 minutes ago, Wfj2176 said:

Thanks. She is 40. I am 47. Drinking has caused problems for sure. We both are in individual therapy.. We had a couples therapist but she felt he was biased against her perspectives. 

Unfortunately even with therapy, she seems to be a problem drinker. It's still unclear why you are trying to conceive unless she gets sober. Fetal alcohol syndrome, infertility (not to mention her age) are related to heavy and problematic drinking. 

Please take care of yourself and perhaps seek support and advice and information for those involved with problem drinkers:

https://al-anon.org/newcomers/self-quiz/adult-quiz/

[Wfj2176]

Thank you. To clarify. We did a first round. That ended a few weeks ago. We have not started a second round. So there isn’t concern about continued alcohol use if pregnant. 

[Wfj2176]

Im an eternal optimist. So I would say yes there is a way to start respecting each other more. Yes she has def pushed insecurities for me. I wouldn’t say that my distrust is continued or pervasive. It only just came up cause of the comments and this work trip. I understand focusing on them is misplaced. I agree. The hormone part felt like an easy excuse that has never been fully addressed. 

[glows]

That’s a good start. Do you mind me asking how often you both go on dates? When I was married it was customary to go out often but that doesn’t always mean dinner dates. They were more off grid adventures at the time. Other times they were dinner dates. Since he was an executive chef most of the dinner dates were also at home or somewhere we both knew or outdoors. It was fun. Anything you both enjoy doing. It’s time to repair the communication and that bond. I get the feeling that regular routines are wearing both of you down and unusual events like this work trip and disrespectful comments are a build up of stress and not enough quality time spent together. 

[mark clemson]

Since it was with multiple work colleagues and she came home with her clothes on etc, I wouldn't be too concerned about infidelity. The hanging up might be "drunk her" focusing on the immediate instead of what she was trying to think about, etc. If she had stayed out all night and/or a hotel was involved it would be much more concerning.

Honestly I would be more concerned about the going out and partying to 1:30 at 40. That's not something you do with a 6 month old. It sounds like she had been single awhile and gotten used to clubbing/partying before she met you?

It's possible she's starting to detach from your relationship, but it's really not clear. Even many fully committed LT couples have "moments of anger" occasionally.

If it was me, the main thing I think I'd be doing would be asking her to NOT go out to bars with friends that late. Unless you are in an area where that is a cultural norm or similar it seems unnecessary to me (and even in those places not everyone does it). Think of things to do/ways to have fun that involve both of you and sober. What are things to do as a couple in your area?

[Wiseman2]

11 hours ago, Wfj2176 said:

.The statement I’ll do whatever the f_uck I want to” before she hung up on me the last time 

Unfortunately it seems you expecting her to be in bed by 9 on a business trip then repeatedly contacting her and interrogating her was perceived and patronizing, controlling and jealous.  

It's unclear why her going out with colleagues on a business trip is an issue for you. Please don't act like her father and she's a teenager.  She's not a child who has to go to bed early. Also this was a business trip and a certain degree of socializing is expected.

Keep in mind she told you off only after pestering and checking up on her repeatedly and insinuating she's cheating, etc. Please keep in mind that cheaters can cheat sober, in the afternoon and not on a trip. 

Her drinking is problematic but you seem to be addressing that in therapy? It's interesting that you've only been married 1.5 years and already your both in therapy as well as marriage therapy and yet.... The drinking continues along with this toxic parent child dynamic. 

Please talk privately and confidentiality to your personal therapist about the drinking and controlling and possessiveness.

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Wiseman2

[Weezy1973]

Honestly, she’s not someone I’d hitch my wagon to for the rest of my life - and if you have kids together, that’s what you’re doing.  Therapy is fine, but it’s not magic. Peiple actually have to actively do things differently, and her getting wasted with strangers is not doing that. Your concern was fine. She was out of line. Optimism is fine, but think long and hard if this is the woman you want to spend the rest of your life with. Not if she changes. Not if she deals with her issues. But her right now. Impulsivity - the core of “I can do whatever I want” is terrible for relationships and especially bad for raising children who thrive on stability. 
 

If it’s me, I’m divorcing this woman before I get trapped.

[glows]

I agree the continued contact was patronizing and controlling. I also think that your marriage is on shaky ground considering all the issues prior and you do mention there are existing problems in the marriage. You’re very insecure due to the culmination of issues in your marriage and unfortunately it’s coming out in destructive ways such as checking up on her, calling and texting or checking where she is, any comments about “guys” meaning her male colleagues. I know what it’s like to feel betrayed and lost as many others do, also very insecure in an unhealthy relationship. This is so much bigger than that work event or being out late with male colleagues. 

In your most recent reply to me you agree that your distrust was misplaced and it’s better to focus on the whole marriage and figure out whether now is a good time to have kids. You both seem to be treating a pregnancy or having children as a solution to the marital problems but I’m not sold that it’s the appropriate solution? Can you explain a bit more why you’re both trying IVF with the ongoing issues? 

I’d also like to hear more about things you both can do together to bond and improve your communication. She shouldn’t be speaking to you that way but you don’t dictate and tell someone not to speak that way. You explain that it feels hurtful and causes you to disengage and feel distrustful of the whole situation. Never dictate to anyone. Show them what you feel and bring them closer, more mutual understanding. 

[BrinnM]

I don’t understand - first of all - why you would continue IVF with her if she already tells you that she won’t stay with you if it doesn’t lead to pregnancy. What kind of a basis is that for a marriage? 
 

Second of all: yes it’s disrespectful to hang up on your spouse when they are worried about you being drunk and out all night. But that’s what she did so leave her alone. There is no reason to keep discussing it with her, especially if she doesn’t feel that she did something wrong. Apparently she doesn’t respect you enough to apologize. I don’t know what you are trying to do here. She’s not your child. She’s an adult and she makes her decision. These decisions don’t seem to be good ones at all times, but you can’t change that ….. treating her like your child won’t change that either. 
If this happened to me, I would give my spouse one last chance to apologize, and then leave, especially after a childless marriage that’s relatively short, like yours.

And then you also have to consider her comment about leaving you if ivf doesn’t go well - I mean wtf. 

[Els]

First of all, it's super weird to refer to your wife as "married female" - 99% of people would just say "my wife". You might say that I'm nitpicking, but IMO if there isn't a language barrier that would explain that incredibly strange turn of phrase (i.e. English isn't your second language), then that statement actually says a lot about your mindset and how you view her.

Secondly, your wife's behaviour would be a red flag to me, but on the other hand so would yours. You are both incredibly disrespectful towards each other and to your relationship, albeit in different ways.

Please stop trying to bring a child into this toxic mess. Work your way through this with MC or split up, your call, but stop trying to have a kid until you've resolved this situation.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Els

[MsJayne]

Getting drunk with a bunch of people she hardly knows and then being downright rude to her husband who is just concerned about her well-being is dumb-a** behaviour. Sounds like she's the one with issues, (she claimed your therapist was biased against her, this is often the case when one partner is being shown up as the troublemaker - the troublemaker doesn't like that therapist any more), and having children probably isn't going to solve anything. Hormone treatment may have some effect on her mood, but it isn't causing her issues, they were already there. I'd think very hard about whether I really wanted to make a family with someone who made it so clear they resented me and tried to dismiss their obnoxious behaviour by gas-lighting me. Her comment about leaving if she doesn't get pregnant would pretty well be the escape route for me. She appears to believe your whole marriage is about her. 

[Wiseman2]

16 hours ago, Wfj2176 said:

Im an eternal optimist. 

Please read up on problem drinking. Denial is not "optimism". In fact this entire episode has to do with problem drinking and your attempts to control it. This isn't about male coworkers or cheating or bedtimes or safety. This is about someone with a drinking problem who wants to drink. Please discontinue attempting conception. She is not healthy enough. 

[d0nnivain]

Going drinking with colleagues on a work trip in & of itself is not that terrible.  Getting drunk at work reflects badly & can be seen as unprofessional.   It could also be unsafe.  Acquaintance rape is a crime of opportunity; being that drunk she is vulnerable & not thinking straight  She may not have had the capacity to consent.  

Her comment to you, her husband, was uncalled for & seriously rude.  

That said IVF really screws with a woman's head & hormones.  There is this whole overarching feeling of being defective because you can't do something that seems so easy for other women:  get pregnant   It puts a lot of pressure on someone.  

If you two are going to save this marriage, I think some MC is in order in addition to the IC.  This seems like an awful lot of drama & unrest for a marriage of such a short duration.  

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by d0nnivain

[basil67]

Kindly, when my husband is away for a work conference or a weekend with the boys, I know better than to be bothering him by checking in.  He's not my child and I have to trust that he can look after himself or that his friends will look after him if need be.  

Learning to switch off while they are gone is helpful

Edited October 28, 2023 by basil67

[ExpatInItaly]

On 10/28/2023 at 5:23 AM, Wfj2176 said:

. We have been trying to have a baby through ivf. She also told me a few weeks before this that if that didn’t work she likely would not stay with me.

This is the real problem. There are serious cracks already in your marriage. 

On 10/28/2023 at 5:23 AM, Wfj2176 said:

That she can’t see how we could stay married if that’s how I see her.

I seriously think she is looking for a way out of the marriage. She keeps finding different reasons to threaten to leave you. This is a woman who has got one foot firmly out the door.