My friend shouldn't have pets

[Lolamoe77]

My (30f) friend Austin (39m) have known each other for over a decade. In the last ten years, Austin and his fiancé Quinn (34f) have had a lot of pets. And I mean a lot. If my memory serves me right, in the last decade they have had 7 dogs, 6 cats, 4 rats, 1 lizard, and the newest and reason for this post, 6 ferrets. 

The fate of most of these animals is what bothers me most. Out of all the animals I just listed 3 of the dogs, 4 of the cats, all the rats, and the lizard ended up being surrendered due to “sudden behavioral issues”. Basically they get bored, overwhelmed, or just sick of the pet and give it away to the first taker. Lately, they’ve been giving away one pet because it doesn’t get along with the newest animal addition. 

So, that brings me to the ferrets. Due to a random Facebook marketplace impulse buy, Austin and Quinn acquired 3 male ferrets. And less than a week later, they found 3 female ferrets to “keep the boys company”. Before that, they have 3 dogs and 2 cats. So in less than two weeks the amount of animals in their home more than doubled. 

One of their dogs, Rider (4f), has been with them since she was a puppy. She’s overall a good dog and never really got into trouble. But for some reason, she cannot stand the ferrets. Now Austin and Quinn want to surrender her to keep the ferrets happy. I remember the cat they surrendered to keep Rider happy. They had that cat since it was a kitty as well. 

I feel like this behavior needs to stop. But I have no idea how to go about this without overstepping. It’s their home, their lives, etc. but I think this just isn’t fair to the animals who’ve been with them all their lives. How do I go about this?

[d0nnivain]

Anonymously call animal control & have them do a wellness check on the pets.  

[Wiseman2]

9 minutes ago, Lolamoe77 said:

I have no idea how to go about this without overstepping. It’s their home, their lives, etc. but . How do I go about this?

There is such a thing as animal hoarding, you can google it.

If the animals are being abused, you can report them to animal control and welfare agencies. Otherwise you could adopt or help the animals to be adopted.

You're right that it's their lives and their home and their relationship and their pets, so you need to stay out of it unless there's animal abuse or neglect. 

[Lolamoe77]

4 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

There is such a thing as animal hoarding, you can google it.

If the animals are being abused, you can report them to animal control and welfare agencies. Otherwise you could adopt or help the animals to be adopted.

You're right that it's their lives and their home and their relationship and their pets, so you need to stay out of it unless there's animal abuse or neglect. 

I cannot adopt any of the animals myself due to my job and current living situation. 
The questions about abuse or neglect is the part I can’t 100% answer. It’s because I haven’t been inside their home in years. The last time I was there the house was filthy and smelled awful. There was excrement all over the floors and obvious stains on the furniture. The animals aren’t well behaved because Austin and Quinn ignore them 90% of the time. If I had hard proof of abuse or neglect I wouldn’t be asking this forum I would go straight to animal welfare. 

[d0nnivain]

Bad smells & excrement on the floor violates health codes.  Call animal control & ask them to do a wellness check.  That is part of their jobs.  

[BrinnM]

6 hours ago, Lolamoe77 said:

the house was filthy and smelled awful. There was excrement all over the floors and obvious stains on the furniture. The animals aren’t well behaved because Austin and Quinn ignore them 90% of the time. If I had hard proof of abuse or neglect I wouldn’t be asking this forum I would go straight to animal welfare. 

This is enough “hard proof” to call animal welfare.
If I had to guess, the cleanliness probably hasn’t improved since you were there last time. 
On the other hand, I do understand that it’s tough to snitch on a friend. Not sure how close you guys are, but the animals have no voice, and if I had to choose, I would give them one by reporting the owners. I would also mention to the animal welfare people how they like to add & get rid of current pets for no good reason. It’s sad. If this is what it’s really like, all pets should be rehomed. I would speak up, if i were you, and definitely call someone to have the place checked out. 

Edited November 2, 2023 by BrinnM

[Lolamoe77]

Update:
I spoke with another friend Maddie (29f) about calling animal welfare and she thinks I should go over and “see for myself” before I do. Maddie doesn't know Austin or Quinn but she believes people can change so I can’t go off of evidence I saw years ago. I don’t think it’s the very worst idea but it does open up the potential of Austin and Quinn knowing it was me who called.

[d0nnivain]

OK.  That's fair.  You have no current knowledge so getting some before calling is reasonable.  

[basil67]

Calling animal welfare would take care of the current lot of animals, but I'm curious about the bigger picture and if they need better supports so that it doesn't keep happening. Do you know if they are living with intellectual disability or mental illness?   A wholistic approach may be required

[ShyViolet]

12 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

Anonymously call animal control & have them do a wellness check on the pets.  

Some cities and localities don't have this option.  Depending on where you are, you could try to call "the city" or animal control but they will do absolutely nothing unless it's a case where a crime was clearly committed.

[ShyViolet]

This is really awful.  If I were you I would try to talk to them, try to convince them that pets aren't disposable and they're not something you can just take home impulsively and then give away when you get tired of them.  It's extremely irresponsible and dangerous to give pets away to random people that you met through the internet because you have no idea if those people are animal abusers or if they are really irresponsible and will just abandon the animals when they get tired of them.  It's not okay to gamble with animals' safety like that.

If they don't listen or have no interest in being responsible pet owners, then honestly there is no way I would continue to be friends with these despicable people.  The way someone treats animals tells me everything I need to know about them as a person. 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Lolamoe77 said:

 I should go over and “see for myself” before I do. 

Definitely a good idea. If it's really neglect/abuse or you don't agree with how many animals they adopt and surrender.  Even if animal control comes, the situation would have to fit their criteria of neglect/abuse. 

[ShyViolet]

12 hours ago, Lolamoe77 said:

If I had hard proof of abuse or neglect I wouldn’t be asking this forum I would go straight to animal welfare. 

What exactly is "animal welfare" in your location, have you done research as to whether or not this even exists?  I live in New York City.  If there was a situation identical to this here in my city, the authorities would do absolutely nothing.  They would not come.  They only come for extreme cases where someone is hoarding like 100 animals and they are all being starved, situations like that.  So many people incorrectly assume that they can call "animal welfare" for situations where they feel animals are being mistreated, they try calling the police, they try calling the ASPCA, and let me tell you, the authorities do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.  I know this for a fact because I am part of the cat rescue community here in New York City.

So before you think you can report them to the authorities, do a little research to find out whether this is even true.  Try contacting your local cat/dog rescue in your city and ask their advice.  They would know.

[basil67]

29 minutes ago, ShyViolet said:

What exactly is "animal welfare" in your location, have you done research as to whether or not this even exists? ......So many people incorrectly assume that they can call "animal welfare" for situations where they feel animals are being mistreated, they try calling the police, they try calling the ASPCA, and let me tell you, the authorities do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.  I know this for a fact because I am part of the cat rescue community here in New York City.

It's a little better where I live.  We'd call the RSPCA.  But we still need to be able to state that the animals are definitely at risk and we must describe exactly what we've seen (such as the animals being starving or having untreated injuries/illness.  Or things like animals being frequently locked in a dark cupboard

In short, you're going to have to visit and document the issues if you want to call authorities

Edited November 3, 2023 by basil67

[Alpacalia]

Yes, this happens all the time.

I have done a lot of charity work with animal shelters and volunteered at animal shelters. I know surrender and rehoming happens for a lot of reasons.

So a few things. No, it's not your place to dictate how your friends live their lives or take care of their pets. However, as someone who cares about animals and has experience working with animal shelters, it's also understandable that you have concerns about their behavior towards their pets.

It seems like they are giving up these animals at the first sign of trouble. Where are they getting these animals anyways and where are they surrendering them to? Knowing that information would greatly help. (Some animal rescue places will not let you adopt any pets after 3 surrender and if they are going to high-kill animal shelters, that's concerning).

Have they considered talking to a trainer or behaviorist before potentially surrendering animals? You can talk to your friends about your concerns and offer to help them find resources that can help them deal with any behavioral issues. As well, if you are close friends with them, maybe you can offer to foster temporarily that they are thinking about giving away for a couple of weeks till they can get a better handle on the situation? Of course, that would be a heavy time commitment on your end.

Maybe you can see if they would consider talking to a behaviorist? Maybe you can help them find one if they like?

Another option is to reach out to local rescue organizations that specialize in the specific types of animals your friends have. You can reach out to animal welfare organizations for advice and resources on how to approach the situation and help improve the care for the animals. They may be able to offer advice and resources for proper care and management of multiple pets. They may also be able to provide a safe and loving home for the animals if your friends are unable or unwilling to properly care for them.

If you call animal welfare, what will most likely happen is that someone from the organization will visit their home and determine if the animals are being properly cared for. Sometimes they won't even come out. It all depends. But if they do come out and if there are signs of neglect or abuse, they will take action and remove the animals from the home. When that happens, depending on the severity of the situation, animal control may then open an investigation and possibly pursue criminal charges against the owners.

And, the animals will most likely be placed in a shelter or with a foster family until an investigation is completed and a determination is made on their fate...

If they have behavioral issues and depending on the severity, may very well be euthanized if they are suffering from severe health issues or have aggressive behaviors that cannot be managed.

Sorry you're in this predicament.

[glows]

I thought Facebook marketplace doesn’t permit selling of live animals. While very sad I don’t know how you truly stop someone from owning animals. They need to be banned and it takes a hours and legal work to do that, often time and resources these organizations don’t have.

You can report them but what if they hide the fact they have animals and keep doing this? It’s also a huge blessing in disguise if some of those animals find more secure and stable homes. There is the risk that there are worse outcomes but this already sounds neglectful, unsanitary and abusive from what you’re describing even though you haven’t seen the way they live and are going from memory. You say you haven’t been inside their home in years. They can’t be such good friends either then?

My guess is there is likely deep rooted mental health issues and owning these animals are a coping mechanism for all else failing and things falling in disarray, same like any hoarding situation and problems caring for one’s self or surroundings. I hate saying this but tackling those deeper issues are likely beyond your reach though you may try. I see these as chronic repeat/lifetime offenders.

[Lolamoe77]

Several people have ask about animal welfare in my area. To be honest I had no idea how much it differed area to area. I will do some more research on that so thank you.  
 

Another question I’ve seen is if there’s someone going on mental health wise with Austin and Quinn. I know for a fact both have adhd, anxiety, and depression. Both use their diagnoses to justify a lot of what goes on with their animals. For example, one dog they had was very aggressive and they signed them up for obedience classes. Austin said because of his adhd, he kept forgetting to take the dog and missed so many classes they got kicked out. Another example is Quinn saying her depression keeps her from cleaning out the litter boxes.

And finally, I realize now why Austin and Quinn have adopted and rehomed all their recent animals off of Facebook. Years ago I remember them going to the local Humane Society often but now that you guys have mentioned certain shelters limit adoptions it all makes sense. 

[Lolamoe77]

3 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

Yes, this happens all the time.

I have done a lot of charity work with animal shelters and volunteered at animal shelters. I know surrender and rehoming happens for a lot of reasons.

So a few things. No, it's not your place to dictate how your friends live their lives or take care of their pets. However, as someone who cares about animals and has experience working with animal shelters, it's also understandable that you have concerns about their behavior towards their pets.

It seems like they are giving up these animals at the first sign of trouble. Where are they getting these animals anyways and where are they surrendering them to? Knowing that information would greatly help. (Some animal rescue places will not let you adopt any pets after 3 surrender and if they are going to high-kill animal shelters, that's concerning).

Have they considered talking to a trainer or behaviorist before potentially surrendering animals? You can talk to your friends about your concerns and offer to help them find resources that can help them deal with any behavioral issues. As well, if you are close friends with them, maybe you can offer to foster temporarily that they are thinking about giving away for a couple of weeks till they can get a better handle on the situation? Of course, that would be a heavy time commitment on your end.

Maybe you can see if they would consider talking to a behaviorist? Maybe you can help them find one if they like?

Another option is to reach out to local rescue organizations that specialize in the specific types of animals your friends have. You can reach out to animal welfare organizations for advice and resources on how to approach the situation and help improve the care for the animals. They may be able to offer advice and resources for proper care and management of multiple pets. They may also be able to provide a safe and loving home for the animals if your friends are unable or unwilling to properly care for them.

If you call animal welfare, what will most likely happen is that someone from the organization will visit their home and determine if the animals are being properly cared for. Sometimes they won't even come out. It all depends. But if they do come out and if there are signs of neglect or abuse, they will take action and remove the animals from the home. When that happens, depending on the severity of the situation, animal control may then open an investigation and possibly pursue criminal charges against the owners.

And, the animals will most likely be placed in a shelter or with a foster family until an investigation is completed and a determination is made on their fate...

If they have behavioral issues and depending on the severity, may very well be euthanized if they are suffering from severe health issues or have aggressive behaviors that cannot be managed.

Sorry you're in this predicament.

I remember years ago they would surrender their animals to the local humane society now they use Facebook exclusively to rehome and adopt. Majority of the behavioral issues with their pets don’t seem to bother them until they get a new pet. Then all of a sudden the older pet bothering the new one is bad and they need to get rid of them. And they always talk about wanting to put their dogs in obedience training but never do. The one time they did sign a dog up they were kicked from the program because they kept forgetting to go. 

My current living and working situation doesn’t allow pets nor would it be beneficial since I’m gone for long periods at a time. They also do not take general pet advice from me because “I don’t have any so I can’t understand” This is a different situation and I’m trying to approach with respect but also real concern for what they are doing. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by Lolamoe77

[Wiseman2]

15 hours ago, Lolamoe77 said:

. It’s because I haven’t been inside their home in years. The last time I was there the house was filthy and smelled awful. 

How well do you know them and how often do you see them in person? They seem to have multiple problems beyond what you can do anything about. 

[Lolamoe77]

1 hour ago, glows said:

I thought Facebook marketplace doesn’t permit selling of live animals. While very sad I don’t know how you truly stop someone from owning animals. They need to be banned and it takes a hours and legal work to do that, often time and resources these organizations don’t have.

You can report them but what if they hide the fact they have animals and keep doing this? It’s also a huge blessing in disguise if some of those animals find more secure and stable homes. There is the risk that there are worse outcomes but this already sounds neglectful, unsanitary and abusive from what you’re describing even though you haven’t seen the way they live and are going from memory. You say you haven’t been inside their home in years. They can’t be such good friends either then?

My guess is there is likely deep rooted mental health issues and owning these animals are a coping mechanism for all else failing and things falling in disarray, same like any hoarding situation and problems caring for one’s self or surroundings. I hate saying this but tackling those deeper issues are likely beyond your reach though you may try. I see these as chronic repeat/lifetime offenders.

It might not be marketplace but people posting about having animal for sale. I’ve seen Quinn share a post about someone’s dog who had a litter of puppies. They ended up with one and that’s Rider. 
 

Though I don’t go to their home, I still consider them good friends. We don’t live in the same town but I work with Austin and see him every week, all three days he works. Usually when we hang out outside of work it’s at social events or we go out for dinners. 
 

I am starting to wonder if this is bigger than the pets and something much more personal and deeper than I know. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by Lolamoe77

[Lolamoe77]

2 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

How well do you know them and how often do you see them in person? They seem to have multiple problems beyond what you can do anything about. 

I know Austin better than Quinn. We work together and see each other almost every week, about three times a week. Only when we hang out outside of work do I see Quinn but that’s about once or twice a month depending on my schedule. 
 

I agree on the multiple problems outside my control. I’m starting to wonder if I should see if less animal related resources and more mental health related would be beneficial. 

[MsJayne]

If their house smelled bad before the ferrets it would be nothing to how it will smell in a couple of weeks. Ferrets stink. Will they be using the ferrets for rabbit hunting, or are they just another novelty until they get bored? I have no doubt there are mental health issues involved, and personally I think when they give animals away the animal is probably grateful and thinks to itself, " Finally, free from this stink pit and these two lazy, irresponsible, excuse-making animal abusers."  I'd just make the call for a welfare check and pretend you know nothing about it when you're told. 

 

 

[Lolamoe77]

6 minutes ago, MsJayne said:

If their house smelled bad before the ferrets it would be nothing to how it will smell in a couple of weeks. Ferrets stink. Will they be using the ferrets for rabbit hunting, or are they just another novelty until they get bored? I have no doubt there are mental health issues involved, and personally I think when they give animals away the animal is probably grateful and thinks to itself, " Finally, free from this stink pit and these two lazy, irresponsible, excuse-making animal abusers."  I'd just make the call for a welfare check and pretend you know nothing about it when you're told. 

 

 

I have never been around a ferret so this is not good news to me. Austin is currently obsessed with them but I don’t know how long it’s going to last. 
The more I read the more I realize how this is much more of a mental health issue this is. 

[Alpacalia]

4 hours ago, Lolamoe77 said:

4 hours ago, Lolamoe77 said:

This is a different situation and I’m trying to approach with respect but also real concern for what they are doing. 

 

It usually isn't though.

You've exhausted options trying to be supportive and offer solutions. Either talk to your friend candidly or get animal control involved.

I am not sure where you live but the county should have a number posted on citizens rights and protection of animals. They may be able to get involved. Some jurisdictions will rehome an animal for free. You can make an anonymous call and they can come out for an inspection. It may take a few calls and nudging on your end but it's worth a shot.

If these were friends with children, would you hesitate to get involved or feel like you are out of line telling them this is concerning and needs immediate attention?

You may be their friend but you can also be an advocate for the well-being of those creatures. Just imagine spending your life being tormented and tossed out because you were too much work. That's traumatizing.

Please reach out to animal control and get a professional involved.

It's a delicate situation, especially when it comes to the welfare of animals because, roughly, we consume 56 billion animals a year (give or take). It is by no stretch of the imagination a minor priority by the general consensus. It's very much a unique debate between whether pets of any kind should even be allowed outside the realm of a food source.

With that being said. It's best for someone outside of the dynamic to safely intervene although you must understand that the reality may be your friend knows that you think they are wrong, but naturally doesn't care less to hear you say it at all and may not react optimistically or even calmly, too that.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Alpacalia

[Wiseman2]

5 hours ago, Lolamoe77 said:

I’m starting to wonder if I should see if less animal related resources and more mental health related would be beneficial. 

As a friend and coworker, you really can't manage their mental health, living conditions or how many pets they have.

Do either of these people have friends and family nearby? If they are close friends why haven't you been to their home "in years" and how do you know "The animals aren’t well behaved because Austin and Quinn ignore them 90% of the time"?  It's hard to believe that your coworker tells you he ignores his animals 90% of the time and you haven't witnessed it either.