Another first date went nowhere. Should I change what I'm talking about or my approach?

[max3732]

After all these dates and time on here I know there is no magic formula or script on a date and every woman is different. However, I was wondering if there's something wrong with my general approach to conversations on 1st dates. When I first started dating I was very nervous and would memorize lists of questions and just try to act like myself. Thankfully I've gotten much better in that regard and don't think I appear nervous on dates anymore.

Rather than a list of questions I've been "going with the flow" of the conversation and treating the 1st date like I'm just getting to know someone. I think some of the nerves came from trying to reach milestones on the 1st date (must touch her innocently 3 times, try to read if she's open to a kiss, etc) and trying to convince her to like me.

My question is if this approach creates a new problem, which is that I'm not showing her my value as a boyfriend/husband and am instead just talking to her about things she's interested in and a lot of her interests and am not coming across as masculine enough.

For example, on this last date we could see birds across from us and she was talking about bird watching and among other things how she went and couldn't see any of them. I listened for a long time and told her about an experience I had trouble on a trip where they were pointing out animals I couldn't see and how there was a TV show with a funny scene with bird watching. So we spend a great deal of time talking about bird watching or looking at animals, which is not exactly my biggest passion or interest. She also talked about baking and what she likes to cook and I shared with her some of the things I like to do make also. 

The other thing is I tried to let her talk instead of interrupting her with questions all the time, so there were a lot of things about her I wanted to know or could have asked about but didn't because I wanted to let her finish her story. In one case she went through like a 10 minute explanation of where she went to college that involved what he dad does for a living, her brother, what she studied, where she'd like to live, and just ton of information. I tried to ask clarifying or other questions where I could, but again it's just her talking about her life and I didn't want to keep interrupting.

I did tell her what I do for a living and how I started with that, but she didn't ask many questions and then want on to talking about something else. When she was talking about movies I don't know if I came across as a little too passionate about certain types and what's been going on with them. Even though I'm passionate about movies for example, that's not really the core of who I am.

Hopefully my question makes sense. I am just so tired of getting excited about dates and getting the "you're a great guy, but no what I'm looking for/no connection" message.

[Wiseman2]

14 minutes ago, max3732 said:

I think some of the nerves came from trying to reach milestones on the 1st date (must touch her innocently 3 times, try to read if she's open to a kiss, etc) and trying to convince her to like me.

Sorry this happened. You seem incompatible to the point of being bored to death with her conversation and interests. That's ok.

That's what first meets are for, to gauge in person chemistry and in this case there doesn't seem to be any. The good news is you're getting dates.

The only suggestion is to please discontinue reading this pick up artist and dating coach rubbish about "milestones". 

If you are sitting there preoccupied with your "next moves", the dates are going to be exceedingly boring and stilted and your date can sense this preoccupation.

Just be yourself rather than over focus on your dating game and whatever impression you're making. 

Please try to not fit a round peg into a square hole. If they are this boring and incompatible, just try to wrap up the date and thank them for their time. Forcing things contributes to dating burnout.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Wiseman2

[Ami1uwant]

I agree…stop with this stuff on pick up artist stuff or whatever guide you are reading.

in my experience it’s a turn off when I ask her questions and she responds but then she doesn’t engage in conversations with me by asking me stuff. It could be her nerves. Some don’t  ask questions if nervous. Some like to talk a lot of nervous.

 

you have enough experience to have conversations snd see how it flows.  Near the end of the meeting is when I might try to touch/ hold hands but it more discreet like hands touched each other. I dont try to force it.

 

 

 

 

[basil67]

49 minutes ago, max3732 said:

I did tell her what I do for a living and how I started with that, but she didn't ask many questions and then want on to talking about something else. ection" message.

Going with the flow and simply getting to know them is great.  But as soon as it becomes apparent that they have no interest in talking about anything but themselves, find a reason to end the date and write them off.  

[Alpacalia]

Don't worry about it. Most don't connect 1st. It sounds like you're definitely putting in effort and trying to have genuine conversations with your dates, which is great!

Ultimately, finding a connection with someone isn't about trying to impress them or showing off your masculine qualities. It's about finding someone who you enjoy spending time with and who also enjoys spending time with you.

My cousin is very cerebral and just isn't into "intimate" conversation early on because he knows from experience that following that program means striking out. Now he has a lovely girlfriend. 😀

If they ask about your interests, of course share, but don't force other topics just for the sake of appearing more manly or interesting. If you can find common ground and have genuine conversations about things you BOTH enjoy that's where the sweet spot is at!

[glows]

From your title I’m assuming she rejected /declined after you asked her on a second date. By saying it went “nowhere” you’re saying she is not interested in pursuing. Is that correct?

If she declined her not asking further qs about you during the first date is rather telling and would foreshadow the decline for a second date.

Your value as a human being/boyfriend/partner is shown over time. People can talk big and be all talk/no substance. What’s important is you are engaged and so is she and that you both want to see one another again. Don’t take things so personally. 

[basil67]

@max3732 More on what I wrote about not bothering with someone who only talks about themselves, a connection can only be created if both people are working to create the connection.  If a woman doesn't attempt to get to know you, then it's not your fault that the connection didn't happen.  

[max3732]

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry this happened. You seem incompatible to the point of being bored to death with her conversation and interests. That's ok.

That's what first meets are for, to gauge in person chemistry and in this case there doesn't seem to be any. The good news is you're getting dates.

The only suggestion is to please discontinue reading this pick up artist and dating coach rubbish about "milestones". 

If you are sitting there preoccupied with your "next moves", the dates are going to be exceedingly boring and stilted and your date can sense this preoccupation.

Just be yourself rather than over focus on your dating game and whatever impression you're making. 

Please try to not fit a round peg into a square hole. If they are this boring and incompatible, just try to wrap up the date and thank them for their time. Forcing things contributes to dating burnout.

I wasn't bored to death with her conversation and interests. It's just not what defines as a person. I guess what I have trouble wrapping my head around is that these women are judging my whole life based on this one interaction to see whether they think we'd be compatible and worth spending more time with me. So if we start talking about movies for example and I share my opinions on some of them that she disagrees with she thinks "this is a movie guy" and doesn't know anything else about me. 

The "3 touch rule" I actually did get from a dating coach online. 

In both of my last 2 dates I actually had fun with the conversations, but found myself talking about a whole bunch of random topics and I'm just trying to figure out what kind of impression I'm leaving since I keep getting the "you're great, but no connection/not for me" line after.

1 hour ago, Ami1uwant said:

I agree…stop with this stuff on pick up artist stuff or whatever guide you are reading.

in my experience it’s a turn off when I ask her questions and she responds but then she doesn’t engage in conversations with me by asking me stuff. It could be her nerves. Some don’t  ask questions if nervous. Some like to talk a lot of nervous.

 

you have enough experience to have conversations snd see how it flows.  Near the end of the meeting is when I might try to touch/ hold hands but it more discreet like hands touched each other. I dont try to force it.

 

 

 

 

For me it was kind of a turn off and disappointing as well. I asked where she was from and she went into a long explanation going into college and work and she never once asked where I was from. She actually grew up really close to me and I had visited a lot of the places she mentioned, but I never had a chance to say it. It was either interrupt her to tell her that or let her finish her story. 

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

Going with the flow and simply getting to know them is great.  But as soon as it becomes apparent that they have no interest in talking about anything but themselves, find a reason to end the date and write them off.  

Now that you mention it she did just talk about herself. The only question she asked about me was what I did for work and she didn't ask many follow ups. Everything else I had to volunteer.

1 hour ago, Alpacalia said:

Don't worry about it. Most don't connect 1st. It sounds like you're definitely putting in effort and trying to have genuine conversations with your dates, which is great!

Ultimately, finding a connection with someone isn't about trying to impress them or showing off your masculine qualities. It's about finding someone who you enjoy spending time with and who also enjoys spending time with you.

My cousin is very cerebral and just isn't into "intimate" conversation early on because he knows from experience that following that program means striking out. Now he has a lovely girlfriend. 😀

If they ask about your interests, of course share, but don't force other topics just for the sake of appearing more manly or interesting. If you can find common ground and have genuine conversations about things you BOTH enjoy that's where the sweet spot is at!

You don't think engaging with her in a conversation about her interests is a problem? This one was really into plants and baking so I asked a lot of questions about them and also shared my experience with growing a rare fruit tree and things that I cook. She is also very musically inclined so I talked about learning an instrument recently. When I got the rejection text I was thinking maybe I should have spent more time talking about more masculine things I do? 

 

1 hour ago, glows said:

From your title I’m assuming she rejected /declined after you asked her on a second date. By saying it went “nowhere” you’re saying she is not interested in pursuing. Is that correct?

If she declined her not asking further qs about you during the first date is rather telling and would foreshadow the decline for a second date.

Your value as a human being/boyfriend/partner is shown over time. People can talk big and be all talk/no substance. What’s important is you are engaged and so is she and that you both want to see one another again. Don’t take things so personally. 

That's correct. I wish I could find someone who could get to know me over time. Sending these messages on dating apps and finally meeting just to get rejected after meeting 1 time is rather frustrating.

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

@max3732 More on what I wrote about not bothering with someone who only talks about themselves, a connection can only be created if both people are working to create the connection.  If a woman doesn't attempt to get to know you, then it's not your fault that the connection didn't happen.  

Good point. I didn't think about it like that. 

In the future is there anything else I can do (assuming she's asking me questions as well) to generally create more chemistry/spark/attraction? 

I just see the years ticking by and am still single and don't know else I can do on dates or how to improve myself to become someone the kind of woman I'd want would like. I am a high performance athlete, run my own successful business, have a ton of hobbies/interests, close with my family, good close friends, like to think I have a good sense of humor, well traveled, well read, etc.

Since I'm just under 6' tall though I know I'm missing a lot of women on dating apps, but in person I don't know what else to do

[glows]

She may not have been physically attracted in person considering this was a first meet up after matching online. This means there’s very little you can do to “spark” more interest. I’ve been on dates where the person is both attractive and a great conversationalist but know from experience it will not be a match long term and choose not to go on another date. I’m not going to go into specifics but it can be anything from a person’s background, where they are in their life/life stage mismatch or mismatch in shared experiences or just a vibe that is missing entirely or something I’d rather not mix up with. 

You may be picking women who just aren’t attracted to you. Or you’re looking for traits in people that you yourself don’t have. It’s good to reflect up to a point but confidence and purpose in a person are attractive traits overall.
 

[Wiseman2]

47 minutes ago, max3732 said:

 In the future is there anything else I can do  to generally create more chemistry/spark/attraction? 

Please detox from the dating coaches that tell you to do these contrived things. Either they are attracted... or not. By trying to "create", this you're focusing on yourself and scoring like a video game. 

You're getting dates so your height and other demographics are not the issue.  This "creating sparks, chemistry and attraction" mythology is what could be giving you a cardboard-like feel in person. Please relax and just be yourself. 

[ShyViolet]

3 hours ago, max3732 said:

I am just so tired of getting excited about dates and getting the "you're a great guy, but no what I'm looking for/no connection" message.

Nothing you could have done differently would have changed this.  When you are in the dating scene, most people are not going to be a match with you.  That's just how dating works.  You need to stop trying to come up with the "correct" things to say and overanalyzing every little thing you are doing on dates.  It's not a science.

3 hours ago, max3732 said:

My question is if this approach creates a new problem, which is that I'm not showing her my value as a boyfriend/husband and am instead just talking to her about things she's interested in

You're not supposed to be "showing your value as a boyfriend/husband" on first dates.  That's not something you should be thinking about.  On first dates, the normal thing to do is just get to know each other and talk about things you are both interested in.

[basil67]

58 minutes ago, max3732 said:

Good point. I didn't think about it like that. 

In the future is there anything else I can do (assuming she's asking me questions as well) to generally create more chemistry/spark/attraction? 

I just see the years ticking by and am still single and don't know else I can do on dates or how to improve myself to become someone the kind of woman I'd want would like. I am a high performance athlete, run my own successful business, have a ton of hobbies/interests, close with my family, good close friends, like to think I have a good sense of humor, well traveled, well read, etc.

Since I'm just under 6' tall though I know I'm missing a lot of women on dating apps, but in person I don't know what else to do

In my experience, chemistry/spark/attraction are either there or they are not. 

I do think you're over estimating how much your height has to do with this.  Sure, if you were 5'4 you might well struggle but unless a woman is of extraordinary height herself, you don't want the kind who sets arbitrary height limits anyway.   About the only thing left is to broaden your own criteria

[Acacia98]

29 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Please detox from the dating coaches that tell you to do these contrived things. Either they are attracted... or not. By trying to "create", this you're focusing on yourself and scoring like a video game. 

I agree with this, OP.

23 minutes ago, ShyViolet said:

Nothing you could have done differently would have changed this.  When you are in the dating scene, most people are not going to be a match with you.  That's just how dating works.  You need to stop trying to come up with the "correct" things to say and overanalyzing every little thing you are doing on dates.  It's not a science.

You're not supposed to be "showing your value as a boyfriend/husband" on first dates.  That's not something you should be thinking about.  On first dates, the normal thing to do is just get to know each other and talk about things you are both interested in.

I agree with this too.

Overall, OP, I'd say it sounds like you're so focused on making a particular impression on these women that you've forgotten that you're also supposed to be trying to figure out if they're right for you. If a woman spends an entire date talking about herself and doesn't show any interest in who you are and what you like, it probably means she's self-centered. You shouldn't want to date her again. So you should be glad she sent you that rejection text. 

[ExpatInItaly]

2 hours ago, max3732 said:

When I got the rejection text I was thinking maybe I should have spent more time talking about more masculine things I do? 

This tells me you don't understand women very well. 

We are not sitting there thinking, ,"oh, his interests are not masculine enough. Next."  No. I don't know where you are getting these ideas from but it's leading down some contrived paths and imaginary concepts of how we ladies think about a man we're on a date with. If anything, the fact that you treat a first date like a score-card of how attractive you can make yourself probably comes through in person. I am not suggesting the women know you are doing this, but I get the strong sense from your post that you are nervous as hell and don't really know how to relax. That is something most people will pick up on and it can be off-putting. 

But why would you want to go on another date with a woman who wasn't interested in getting to know you and talked about herself the whole time? She wasn't a good candidate for a second date anyway. 

[Alpacalia]

2 hours ago, max3732 said:

You don't think engaging with her in a conversation about her interests is a problem? This one was really into plants and baking so I asked a lot of questions about them and also shared my experience with growing a rare fruit tree and things that I cook. She is also very musically inclined so I talked about learning an instrument recently. When I got the rejection text I was thinking maybe I should have spent more time talking about more masculine things I do? 

I can't remember ever thinking, "This guy isn't proving his worth." But what does that even mean? While it's true that if two people have different interests, one may not win the "World Adventurer of the Year" award, I believe our mistake lies in not recognizing that traits traditionally considered masculine and feminine are present in all of us. 

So yes, bake me a cake and then arguably I can fix the kitchen sink but I can't fix the engine in the car all that well. 

If a woman seeks traditional masculine traits in a man, she can still identify them in you, even if your date revolves around discussing plants and baking. If she can't, perhaps she isn't the right match for you. If you feel compelled to display these traits due to insecurity, consider addressing those feelings instead.

Listening is fine, but so is genuinely being interested in what the other person has to say. If you're not interested in something, whether it's bird watching or baking, don't pretend to be. I always said with my ex, he loved football, I told him I didn't but I'm going to do this or that because I know he loves football and I loved him!

Remember, you're an important part of the date, so don't forget to share your interests and likes in the conversation. While it's good to let your date talk, being too reserved about yourself can make you seem disinterested or dull. It's important to strike a balance by sharing information about your own interests and passions – after all, we want to get to know you too.

All that aside, I can't say I have ever been on a date and said to myself, wow. He is a great conversationalist!  That doesn't really come up - yes making each other laugh and aside from any standout dates, it doesn't make the cut in my conversations with others. There is typically a "pull" of some kind that gets me there with other people. Think about it as more of getting the other person excited or interested in seeing you again because the first outing was fun, enjoyable and perhaps because you do share something more than the activities already mentioned...

If in some cases neither are compelled to say let's see each other again it's that natural compatibility, not something that can be reduced to sentences and words. We decided later to text back, I suspect as a want for closure, yeah that was fun but not for me - great meeting anyway.

[Weezy1973]

8 hours ago, basil67 said:

In my experience, chemistry/spark/attraction are either there or they are not. 

Yes, this is really all you have to know and it should take the pressure off. You can’t control it. The only thing to really to think about on a first date is whether you want to see her again. And if you do, ask her out again. The rest is out of your control.

If this is happening everytime, the only other thing I can think of is to make sure your OLD pics are up to date and accurate. But the fact you’re getting dates on the first place is a really good sign.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Weezy1973

[Gaeta]

Stop wondering if you appear good enough to these women and start wondering if these women are good enough for you!! You get dates, you're articulate, you're capable of auto-analyze, you're open to change, you're honest in your intent, you sound like a catch! So, stop thinking you are doing something wrong by not talking about the right subject, or not touching them at the right moment. That has no incidence on a woman and a man connecting! 

Please drop the online coach! We're a bunch of women here telling you what we like on a first date and it's not 'masculine subject' (what is that anyway). You just be yourself! smile and be authentic! you will come across a woman that will notice and want more of it! Not every woman you meet over coffee is meant for you. 

 

[d0nnivain]

There's no magic formula.  Stop thinking you must touch her 3x.  All that garbage in your head is making you come across as strange .   trust me these women are picking up some odd / off vibe because you are not going with the flow. 

Try flipping the script.  First visualize the date going well.  Knowing your own value as a partner, try talking to her from a perspective more of let her prove to you why she's good enough to deserve a 2nd date or to be your GF.  Confidence is sexy.  The rest of on line coaching stuff are ideas for ways to help you appear confident especially if you are not feeling it.  Never follow one of them like a script.  

[mark clemson]

They seem happy to chat you up so that's probably a good sign. Not sure it's more than "luck of the draw".

That said, since you are focused in part on self-improvement/helping yourself be "right" to be attractive to women, you could consider reading the book "A Billion Wicked Thoughts". Specifically the chapters on female attraction might be helpful as it can give you a bigger-picture view of how women tend to think/operate as well as providing detailed elements of "things women find attractive". 

It sounds very much like you are "almost there" and if you can operationalize some of what's in that book, it might be quite helpful for you. The more (non-superficially) attracted a woman is to you, the more "connection" she generally feels, that's what is actually meant by that expression after all.

And yes, confidence is sexy.

Edited November 6, 2023 by mark clemson

[basil67]

23 hours ago, max3732 said:

I'm not showing her my value as a boyfriend/husband and am instead just talking to her about things she's interested in and a lot of her interests and am not coming across as masculine enough.

I'd like to unpack a bit more of this with you.

If I was out dating again, on a first date, all I can see is whether or not conversation flows easily and if we seem to share similar outlooks to life.  Whether or not he may be what I want in a long term partner will not be revealed until we've been in a relationship for quite some time and I've seen how he deals with life.   And what do you mean by "value" anyway?  The word sounds like a commercial exchange...though if it comes from the manosphere, I guess that makes sense 😕

With regards to being masculine enough, I will concede that I wouldn't be attracted to a guy who has feminine mannerisms. But that's about where it ends.  I actually had to ask Google about masculine traits and it told me "strength, courage, independence, leadership, and assertiveness".  But women can have these traits too, so why is this stuff viewed as masculine?  And really, I think these traits are mostly helpful in one's career, but I can't see that it helps much in the home.  The traits which I find attractive in a man are thoughtfulness, compassion, able to open up about feelings, able to raise young men who respect women, someone who can be silly with me, who can laugh at himself, who can work with peers/equals/friends rather than trying to lead 

 

[max3732]

19 hours ago, Acacia98 said:

I agree with this, OP.

I agree with this too.

Overall, OP, I'd say it sounds like you're so focused on making a particular impression on these women that you've forgotten that you're also supposed to be trying to figure out if they're right for you. If a woman spends an entire date talking about herself and doesn't show any interest in who you are and what you like, it probably means she's self-centered. You shouldn't want to date her again. So you should be glad she sent you that rejection text. 

That's kind of what I was doing before. In this date (and the last one) I thought I was acting like myself and going with the flow and having fun and contributing to the conversation. The last date (which I also posted about) I thought went really well since she asked a lot of questions and we were laughing and found some common ground. Still got the "no connection" text.

With this one I think I was a bit blinded by her looks as well as the fact she had a lot of traits I'm looking for that are hard for me to find. However you're absolutely right that as far as the actual interaction on the date I was a bit annoyed with her never asking anything about me even when it seemed to be setup perfectly. At one point I remember she was going on and on and I thought I was going to doze off, but snapped out of it. I did tell her some things about myself, but it was always towards the end of her stories.. 

18 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

This tells me you don't understand women very well. 

We are not sitting there thinking, ,"oh, his interests are not masculine enough. Next."  No. I don't know where you are getting these ideas from but it's leading down some contrived paths and imaginary concepts of how we ladies think about a man we're on a date with. If anything, the fact that you treat a first date like a score-card of how attractive you can make yourself probably comes through in person. I am not suggesting the women know you are doing this, but I get the strong sense from your post that you are nervous as hell and don't really know how to relax. That is something most people will pick up on and it can be off-putting. 

But why would you want to go on another date with a woman who wasn't interested in getting to know you and talked about herself the whole time? She wasn't a good candidate for a second date anyway. 

What are you thinking when you try to decide if you want to go out with him again? My fear is getting put in the "he's a great guy, very nice, but I don't find him attractive as a boyfriend/husband" category. 

On recent dates I haven't been treating it like a scorecard and have been trying to just have a nice conversation and to get to know the person and I'm still alone.

With hindsight and thinking about it some more you're right I think she probably isn't right for me. She posts videos online and I showed them to some good friends and they agreed she seems rather self centered and seeks a lot of validation.

10 hours ago, Gaeta said:

Stop wondering if you appear good enough to these women and start wondering if these women are good enough for you!! You get dates, you're articulate, you're capable of auto-analyze, you're open to change, you're honest in your intent, you sound like a catch! So, stop thinking you are doing something wrong by not talking about the right subject, or not touching them at the right moment. That has no incidence on a woman and a man connecting! 

Please drop the online coach! We're a bunch of women here telling you what we like on a first date and it's not 'masculine subject' (what is that anyway). You just be yourself! smile and be authentic! you will come across a woman that will notice and want more of it! Not every woman you meet over coffee is meant for you. 

 

Very good point about my way of thinking. After sending hundreds of messages and swiping on countless profiles I get so excited to have a real woman in front of me I find attractive that I just want it work.

Honestly I was thinking of hiring an online coach, but now I'm thinking I won't do it. I wish I had some way to see if I'm doing something that's off putting to women on dates and could get feedback from them.

5 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

There's no magic formula.  Stop thinking you must touch her 3x.  All that garbage in your head is making you come across as strange .   trust me these women are picking up some odd / off vibe because you are not going with the flow. 

Try flipping the script.  First visualize the date going well.  Knowing your own value as a partner, try talking to her from a perspective more of let her prove to you why she's good enough to deserve a 2nd date or to be your GF.  Confidence is sexy.  The rest of on line coaching stuff are ideas for ways to help you appear confident especially if you are not feeling it.  Never follow one of them like a script.  

Besides confidence is there anything else that women find sexy when they're on a 1st date? I don't want to follow a formula or be disingenuous, but I do want to show her my best self as far dating is concerned. 

 

15 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I'd like to unpack a bit more of this with you.

If I was out dating again, on a first date, all I can see is whether or not conversation flows easily and if we seem to share similar outlooks to life.  Whether or not he may be what I want in a long term partner will not be revealed until we've been in a relationship for quite some time and I've seen how he deals with life.   And what do you mean by "value" anyway?  The word sounds like a commercial exchange...though if it comes from the manosphere, I guess that makes sense 😕

With regards to being masculine enough, I will concede that I wouldn't be attracted to a guy who has feminine mannerisms. But that's about where it ends.  I actually had to ask Google about masculine traits and it told me "strength, courage, independence, leadership, and assertiveness".  But women can have these traits too, so why is this stuff viewed as masculine?  And really, I think these traits are mostly helpful in one's career, but I can't see that it helps much in the home.  The traits which I find attractive in a man are thoughtfulness, compassion, able to open up about feelings, able to raise young men who respect women, someone who can be silly with me, who can laugh at himself, who can work with peers/equals/friends rather than trying to lead 

 

By "value" I mean that she sees me as someone who should want to be with romantically because I'm the kind of guy she's looking for in a relationship. 

[basil67]

1 hour ago, max3732 said:

By "value" I mean that she sees me as someone who should want to be with romantically because I'm the kind of guy she's looking for in a relationship. 

Thanks for the clarification.  It was a weird word in this context

I would imagine that most women don't get this far ahead of themselves.   The best you could hope for on a first date is that they want to see you again.  For a relationship minded person, if multiple dates go well AND they are sexually attracted to you, they will then think about a relationship.  And after months of relationship, they will think about long term.  

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, max3732 said:

is there anything else that women find sexy when they're on a 1st date?  that she sees me as the kind of guy she's looking for in a relationship. 

Perhaps one of the first steps (besides ditching the dating coaches) would be to accept one and done situations is par for the course in the OLD landscape. So try to write some of it off as just not a match.

Next think of it as you evaluating them rather than you trying to impress them with sexiness or as husband material for the sake of validation rather than trying to connect to someone. 

You're getting dates so your profile and messages seem to work, but please try to be yourself rather than an actor from a dating guru video. 

[Ami1uwant]

From my experience dating women….having a back and forth conversation mattered in have a second meeting.  
 

when it was more Q & A and she’d answer but not ask would just kill the date…I don’t care how attractive she was to me

[Maldives]

On 11/6/2023 at 10:08 AM, max3732 said:

After all these dates and time on here I know there is no magic formula or script on a date and every woman is different. However, I was wondering if there's something wrong with my general approach to conversations on 1st dates. When I first started dating I was very nervous and would memorize lists of questions and just try to act like myself. Thankfully I've gotten much better in that regard and don't think I appear nervous on dates anymore.

Rather than a list of questions I've been "going with the flow" of the conversation and treating the 1st date like I'm just getting to know someone. I think some of the nerves came from trying to reach milestones on the 1st date (must touch her innocently 3 times, try to read if she's open to a kiss, etc) and trying to convince her to like me.

My question is if this approach creates a new problem, which is that I'm not showing her my value as a boyfriend/husband and am instead just talking to her about things she's interested in and a lot of her interests and am not coming across as masculine enough.

For example, on this last date we could see birds across from us and she was talking about bird watching and among other things how she went and couldn't see any of them. I listened for a long time and told her about an experience I had trouble on a trip where they were pointing out animals I couldn't see and how there was a TV show with a funny scene with bird watching. So we spend a great deal of time talking about bird watching or looking at animals, which is not exactly my biggest passion or interest. She also talked about baking and what she likes to cook and I shared with her some of the things I like to do make also. 

The other thing is I tried to let her talk instead of interrupting her with questions all the time, so there were a lot of things about her I wanted to know or could have asked about but didn't because I wanted to let her finish her story. In one case she went through like a 10 minute explanation of where she went to college that involved what he dad does for a living, her brother, what she studied, where she'd like to live, and just ton of information. I tried to ask clarifying or other questions where I could, but again it's just her talking about her life and I didn't want to keep interrupting.

I did tell her what I do for a living and how I started with that, but she didn't ask many questions and then want on to talking about something else. When she was talking about movies I don't know if I came across as a little too passionate about certain types and what's been going on with them. Even though I'm passionate about movies for example, that's not really the core of who I am.

Hopefully my question makes sense. I am just so tired of getting excited about dates and getting the "you're a great guy, but no what I'm looking for/no connection" message.

That's great that you let her talk and listened and she did a lot of the talking. Nothing wrong with that in fact you paying attention and listening to her can be part of the attraction for her. However, at the end of the day try and qualify her as well whether this is someone you find engaging and compatible rather than trying to take it further if you're not really connecting with her. You wanna be having fun and enjoying the date as well not just trying to score points with them or trying so hard to say the right things.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Goodguy05