Date seems keen but wanted to split the check?

[Ami1uwant]

9 hours ago, babybrowns said:

You are getting this out of thin air, I never said anything like this at all. That’s not what happened- I repeat what I said before, he did NOT offer to pay at any point.

The man got back in touch with me this evening to say he had been telling his family all about me today, and was keen for us to arrange date #3. He wanted us to go out to get dinner again.

I wasn’t planning on seeing him again at this point but I just wanted to see what he’d say if I first said I’m too broke to go for dinner again next week, which in reality is true. He responded with the suggestion that he cook for me at his house. That ruled out any benefit of doubt about why he didn’t get the check last night- it had nothing to do with me offering to pay, but rather he just has no intention of taking me out to dinner.

To anyone who has posted to say, why should a man pay? That is how you feel, as I said in my OP, people tend to be on both sides of the fence about this- you either are pro Dutch or you’re not. On the first 2-3 dates which I go on with a new man, especially when he has invited me out, my standard is that he pays. It is not about the money, it is about chivalry and a sense of knowing that he wants to treat me. Call me old school but that’s what I am.

I relayed unto this man my concerns that he has just come out of a LTR and that I am looking for someone who doesn’t have an ex in their life. He has spent most of the evening trying to convince me in response, that he has no feelings for his ex, that he wants a relationship, that he wants us to delete the dating apps on our phone so that we try to build something with each other, etc.

He won’t take my no for an answer. For this I’m actually glad that he did not pay the check last night, since yes it might have helped me want to keep overlooking the big elephant in the room and proceed. But yes, it’s impossible in these circumstances.

My own ex is not in my life, we broke up a few years ago, and I am ready to build something with someone who’s in a similar place to me and doesn’t have their ex as a big part of their life, feelings or not.

Thanks everyone for your help once again 💐 

5+ yrs with a shared child.  Generally 4 months is too soon to date. They probably aren’t over the ex.

 

I’m assuming you are all about equality in pay and your job but yet you are expecting him to ask you out and him to pay.  If he doesn’t you hold it against him?

 

[ExpatInItaly]

14 hours ago, babybrowns said:

I am looking for someone who doesn’t have an ex in their life.

When did you first learn his ex was in his life? 

[Gaeta]

Many freshly separated men don't want to pay exactly because they're not ready for another commitment. They want a girlfriend, have sex, companionship, but they don't want to invest themselves to the point of investing money in another woman. They're often bitter because they were generous in their previous relationship and they see a separation as a betrayal toward that generosity. 

Anyway you look at this, this man is not a good investment for you. 

[BaileyB]

23 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

Many freshly separated men don't want to pay exactly because they're not ready for another commitment.

Agree. I would also add that while we don’t know his situation, he may well have a lot of other financial obligations right now. If he has just moved out, he is likely trying to establish himself independently while paying child support, spousal support, or assisting with the rent and bills for his child and his child’s mother. He may have significant legal fees as they establish a custody agreement and divide other assets. There are valid reasons why he may not have a lot of disposable income right now. Perhaps, he was actually being financially responsible by not offering to pick up the cheque… No doubt, you will say OP that he shouldn’t have invited you to dinner if he was not planning to offer to buy your dinner… but I’m sure you invite friends out to lunch all the time and split the bill. This is not an unreasonable expectation considering that you barely know the man. 

 

[stillafool]

1 hour ago, NuevoYorko said:

Wow, another sh** test.

This is exactly what you were doing - saying you'll go half on the bill just to see if he would accept.  Not cool.  Say what you mean and do what you say.  You play so many games with men to find out how much they like you.  No wonder things never work out and you're always on the hunt.

[glows]

I read the original post as a polite gesture and you genuinely shocked that he took up your offer to split the bill. If you’re irritated with him let go. Say thank you for the time but this isn’t a match. Be respectful and date someone else.

I don’t get the sense that you’re writing him off. You’re just wanting to understand why he accepted to split the bill because chivalry is important to you. He offered to cook for you on this upcoming date. I think that’s very thoughtful and assumed you accepted.

Do you intend to keep seeing him? 
 

Edited November 13, 2023 by glows

[stillafool]

52 minutes ago, glows said:

He offered to cook for you on this upcoming date. I think that’s very thoughtful and assumed you accepted.

Cooking for you is also paying for your meal and not cheap with the cost of groceries.

[Alpacalia]

I still think inviting to his place to cook dinner is iffy.  

Maybe he took you up on your offer to split the check because his  ex seems financially ambitious and independent so he thought that by going dutch, it would show his support. And yes you can meet outdoors- go for a picnic, walk/ bike ride anything outdoors- something active, right, in the park somewhere, perhaps a movie. He may be not want to pay because his ex was upset about the parents paying for the new house and may be trying to reduce any conflicts on dates.

I think it is important for you to be aware of the recent split and potential baggage and left over feelings when continuing to date him. I think you should trust your gut on this.

Your post here highlights some serious maturity gaps between the two of you, which cannot easily be bridged. *Buuuuuuttt* these matters are very important, and it would be better to work through them when you're in your 30s. This might be a teaching moment to bring you back to "Why am I dating?"

Also, just another thing to note but going on dates with a man with a small kid is draining. Especially at this point in your life. 

If you feel that this is something that you can't get behind, then there's probably no need for a (non-spotty) third date.  You don't know him. So then perhaps, you need to let this whole thing go and move on. If not, I would say have a conversation about it with him. Let him know you're a traditional woman who expects chivalry from a partner. Go from there. But from the sounds of it, you two are not a good match, OP. Regardless of who pays. 

[Gaeta]

2 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

I still think inviting to his place to cook dinner is iffy. 

I think so too.

Usually men will wait to be invited over by the woman because it's usually a sign that she is comfortable enough to meet him one on one on *her* territory, in an environment she feels safe. When a man is the first one to make a home invitation he is not concern about making her feel safe, and he's not concern about her comfort level. 

Not gentleman at all.

[stillafool]

1 hour ago, Gaeta said:

I think so too.

Usually men will wait to be invited over by the woman because it's usually a sign that she is comfortable enough to meet him one on one on *her* territory, in an environment she feels safe. When a man is the first one to make a home invitation he is not concern about making her feel safe, and he's not concern about her comfort level. 

Not gentleman at all.

I agree.  Still there was an invite for a paid dinner.  She could have said "Thank you, but I'm not comfortable yet to come to your house."  Which she probably said that and then offered to go half on dinner followed with getting angry because he accepted.

[NuevoYorko]

It seems to be a repeating scenario that you are very wrapped up in some fairly superficial gestures that you have labeled as "chivalrous" and indicate how very much a man is INTO you.  

Please keep in mind that nobody healthy is likely to be completely smitten after only meeting someone one time.   Also, at risk of redundancy, these "chivalrous gestures" like paying for a meal don't really mean that the guy is that into you - many men know that it's kind of easy to influence certain women with these moves.   More importantly, they don't indicate much about real compatibility at all.

[basil67]

1 hour ago, NuevoYorko said:

It seems to be a repeating scenario that you are very wrapped up in some fairly superficial gestures that you have labeled as "chivalrous" and indicate how very much a man is INTO you.  

Please keep in mind that nobody healthy is likely to be completely smitten after only meeting someone one time.   Also, at risk of redundancy, these "chivalrous gestures" like paying for a meal don't really mean that the guy is that into you - many men know that it's kind of easy to influence certain women with these moves.   More importantly, they don't indicate much about real compatibility at all.

All of this ^ 

Chivalry in the modern day is bait and switch.  It's a performance which drops off as the dating progresses into a relationship because it's not necessary.   

It only makes sense in the old days when women had less/no income, lived at home till they married and weren't able to travel easily on their own.  The guy actually HAD to do this stuff if he wanted to court her.  

 

[Alpacalia]

3 hours ago, Gaeta said:

I think so too.

Usually men will wait to be invited over by the woman because it's usually a sign that she is comfortable enough to meet him one on one on *her* territory, in an environment she feels safe. When a man is the first one to make a home invitation he is not concern about making her feel safe, and he's not concern about her comfort level. 

Not gentleman at all.

I have a female friend. She recently went on a second date with a man at his house. He's a millionaire by the way and he offered to cook for her.

LST, he's been pretty dodgy since that evening. 

Though, I do agree that you should not have offered to pay your share if you weren't inclined to. If you say you'll split the check and someone takes you up on that offer that's not on them.

Sure, it would have been a nice gesture had he said, no worries, I got this, but maybe he felt it was rude to dismiss your offer to go Dutch. Who knows.

[Gaeta]

I'm wondering BB, when you were at this dinner did you go on about gaving 2 Uni degrees? Maybe this made him think you're one of those women that would be offended if the man grabbed the bill. 

[Alpacalia]

26 minutes ago, basil67 said:

It only makes sense in the old days when women had less/no income, lived at home till they married and weren't able to travel easily on their own.  The guy actually HAD to do this stuff if he wanted to court her.  

Well, in all fairness, women still earn less money than men, but that's a whole different discussion🤗. I agree though, in our modern society where women are more independent and influential, it doesn't make as much sense for a guy to insist on paying for everything. It's a nice gesture and can be appreciated, but it shouldn't be expected or demanded.

In fact, splitting the bill or taking turns paying can be a more fair and balanced approach. It shows that both parties are contributing and valuing each other's financial stability. Plus, it takes the pressure off of the guy to always be the one to foot the bill. That being said, there are still instances where it might make sense for a guy to pay for everything. For example, if he initiates the date and chooses an expensive or exclusive restaurant, it would be courteous for him to cover the bill. Or if a guy is treating his significant other to a special occasion, such as a birthday or anniversary, it's understandable for him to take care of the expenses.

There are plenty of ways to gauge someone's interest, and who covers the bill isn't a reliable indicator. I wouldn't read too much into it. If you're inclined to interpret it, perhaps he's suggesting a shared investment —both contributing equally, rather than one person doing all the heavy lifting. It could be his own test to see if you're genuinely interested in him or just enjoying a night out with free food and drinks. People's past experiences can influence these things, so who knows what his previous dates were like.

Besides, it's better to want someone to pay for you because they WANT to, not because they feel like they HAVE to.

[introverted1]

On 11/12/2023 at 3:29 PM, babybrowns said:

I just wanted to see what he’d say if I first said I’m too broke to go for dinner again next week, which in reality is true. He responded with the suggestion that he cook for me at his house.

I fail to see how this is a negative on his part.  She preemptively stated she could not afford dinner while offering no alternatives.  He did offer an alternate.  She could have countered but she didn't. In that regard, he's actually being smart because her lack of counter lets him know whether she's just looking for a free meal or actually interested in seeing him.  There are lots of inexpensive date ideas - a day at a local museum followed by a trip to a local pastry shop or drinks at a piano bar or ice skating or hiking at a nearby trail or...  I have no idea where they live but surely there are other things to do than just go out for dinner (which is not all that interesting, really). 

It seems that OP's interested is in being feted, not in getting to know this man. 

[NuevoYorko]

One more thing about the check splitting:   When I was online dating, I met MANY MANY women who were very firm about going Dutch in early dating.  I spoke to women about this; generally they wanted to keep any type of potential obligations from creeping into things when they were not ready for it.  

This went for even women who were generally more traditional in their approach to dating.  

If a woman offered to split the check, I would take that as she actually would prefer to split the check.   It would not have occurred to me that I might be failing some type of weird test by accepting her offer.   

[smackie9]

He's split from his ex, and is raising a young child that now probably needs daycare, he's paying his own rent, bills, etc. Money is going to be a little tight for him so I can see why he's not really going to be the type to pay the whole tab. And ya it's only 4 months after his spilt...he might be a little thirst/everything look good on the menu. Take his words "telling me on the drive back that he was so happy to have met someone like me" with a grain of salt. 

Edited November 14, 2023 by smackie9

[Mercedes7]

I personally feel like if a man invites me out on a date, he should pay.   I think the person who initiates the date should pay. So, I do not 'offer to pay' if I have been invited out on a date (I live in the southern US, so some of this is probably location based and maybe generational (in my 50s - Gen X).  Men here seem to follow that 'rule' from what I have seen and heard from my friends (again mostly my age group) - meaning if they ask a woman on a date, they expect to pay.

But if someone invited you out on a date - and if you are going to view someone negatively for NOT paying - I don't understand why you would offer to pay.  He may have thought like others have mentioned that it was something important to you to split the check and didn't want to cause problems.  I agree with those who thought the invite to 'cook at home'  was likely just looking for a hookup, though.  

[Weezy1973]

3 hours ago, Mercedes7 said:

I personally feel like if a man invites me out on a date, he should pay.   I think the person who initiates the date should pay.

This would be great if women asked men out on dates at an approximately equal rate to men asking out women on dates. But we’re not there (yet). Men still are overwhelmingly the ones to initiate and ask out women on dates. 
 

And yes being in a more traditional culture and being older will definitely skew your values.

[Alpacalia]

I suggested to someone once that we meet, but that was after corresponding for a bit beforehand. He paid for both of us, albeit, I offered to chip in for my share, and he declined it. 🤷‍♀️In any case, the gesture was appreciated and it was a nice surprise. But as a personal rule, I always offer to at least pay for my share or split expenses when meeting someone for the first time. It's just a matter of courtesy and not assuming anything. 

You have to be careful because there are some unsavory men that will buy you a drink, dinner, whichever, and then follow you around all night as if you owe them. By offering to buy yourself a drink or split the expense, it sets the expectation that you are not obligated to them or owe them anything just because they bought you a drink. 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Alpacalia

[smackie9]

Some men do prefer to pay and find it emasculating /disappointing that a women would offer to pay half or grab the tab during the first few dates. Some guys welcome it because of the traditional expectation of men should pay. Me, I am at both sides of the coin. When I was dating I liked it when the guy whom ask me out to pay, but I usually left the tip...I had np paying for dates, and I ask men out too....some were most confused and didn't know how to take it. Everyone has different expectations.

[Alpacalia]

True smackie9. I've also observed that too, that some men are confused how to perceive it especially during the first few dates. That she may just view their date as a friendly hangout than a romantic one (i.e. if the expenses were split).

Alternatively, if a woman lets the man pay, he may view it as a woman just want to have a 'free food' rather than actually wanting to get to know him.

It's like, argh, catch-22!

It would seem that there's a higher level of communication and delicacy that has to go into discussing/tackling this issue. However, not every first date would create an environment where this issue could be discussed calmly/naturally.

I suppose the real issue here (assuming a warm, friendly connection) is whether or not both parties see the slight potential of something more to grow from their first few dates that will prompt each of them to keep eager to see and know each other more. 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Alpacalia

[NuevoYorko]

38 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

Some men do prefer to pay and find it emasculating /disappointing that a women would offer to pay half or grab the tab during the first few dates.

Definitely true.  I have seen posts on this very forum where men are counseling other men that when a woman offers to pay half etc.  it means she is not into the guy.  

 

[stillafool]

Yes, I was told when I started dating to only let the guy pay if you have a romantic interest, that way he won't feel bad when you jump out of the car and run into the house at the end of the date. LOL.