Disaster of a Second Date

[Alpacalia]

You just need to develop a thicker spine and not put up with the ridiculous behaviour some of the women are acting out with.

As for girls pulling the same stunt again and again-- if you know it's some sort of avoidance tactic, say buh-bye.

[FredEire]

23 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

You just need to develop a thicker spine and not put up with the ridiculous behaviour some of the women are acting out with.

As for girls pulling the same stunt again and again-- if you know it's some sort of avoidance tactic, say buh-bye.

Well yes, when I realise things are going in that direction saying buh-bye is pretty much the only dignified option 😂

It just gets frustrating when the girls I meet who are down to earth, kind, patient and engaged are the ones I feel a lot less connection to and interest in.

But I guess it's not really a unique problem. You want what you can't have is an age old cliche. I just end up wondering how people end up making it work and how I need to go about it.

[Alpacalia]

8 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Well yes, when I realise things are going in that direction saying buh-bye is pretty much the only dignified option 😂

Well not quite. If you would at least call it like it is & point out the frustrating behaviour when it manifests, at least you are vocal. It does send the message you have no issue holding the undesirable behaviour to account & expect other people to be decent, respectful & act in good faith the way you want to be treated. Otherwise, you basically let anyone roll you in adjacency as long as they are not outright insulting you. Like, on option, when she started acting bratty, would be to leave her there in her spot at the table.

Instead she said she is going home early and then proceeded to post some cockamamie story on Instagram to give you one last dig to make you anxious enough.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Alpacalia

[FredEire]

8 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

Well not quite. If you would at least call it like it is & point out the frustrating behaviour when it manifests, at least you are vocal. It does send the message you have no issue holding the undesirable behaviour to account & expect other people to be decent, respectful & act in good faith the way you want to be treated. Otherwise, you basically let anyone roll you in adjacency as long as they are not outright insulting you. Like, on option, when she started acting bratty, would be to leave her there in her spot at the table.

Instead she said she is going home early and then proceeded to post some cockamamie story on Instagram to give you one last dig to make you anxious enough.

Yeah, trusting my instincts more and as you said acting on that kind of thing esrly is definitely something I need to work on. It doesn't necessarily make experiences like this nicer but at least doesn't aggravate the situation and brings it to a more straightforward conclusion.

Edited November 17, 2023 by FredEire

[basil67]

2 hours ago, FredEire said:

It just seems to be a general theme with girls I particularly like. I've only had one serious ex but was told by people close to me they got a seriously bad vibe off her early on and in the end it turned out she'd lied about a 7-year age gap for 6 months and only told me because I saw her passport, while constantly accusing me of wanting to leave her, going through my phone looking for chats with other girls etc.

Thanks, now I understand.   With this ex, I'm surprised that you waited till you found out that she'd lied about her age.  Because her behaviour of constantly accusing you of wanting to leave you and spying in your phone should have been a dealbreaker way before that!  Perhaps you were kind tolerated it because you felt sad for her being insecure...but when insecure manifests in abusive behaviour, you need to switch your focus into looking after yourself.  It doesn't matter how much damage someone has in their past, if they aren't treating you well, then you should leave them behind. 

2 hours ago, FredEire said:

Apart from that there's been a few other things that always seem to end in some kind of conflict or argument, a girl who'd only meet up with me in a group of friends and never wanted to go on a date with just the two of us, then got upset with me one night and said we shouldn't see eachother again because she didn't want to be with me in front of her friends.

Another one to quickly ditch. 

2 hours ago, FredEire said:

Apart from that I've had quite a lot of things where I've seen a girl for a while, had pretty lukewarm feelings while loads of friends have told me this girls and keeper etc, and ultimately she told me she wanted us to be an item but I had to let her down gently because I didn't want to engage in a relationship I'm only half into.

Good choice on your part.  While it's good to have reassurance from friends and family that the person doesn't throw up any red flags, it doesn't mean that you should keep dating them if the connection is absent.

2 hours ago, FredEire said:

It gets pretty sad and frustrating because ever time I meet someone I feel a strong connection with which is really quite rare my mind goes to "how is this going to blow up on me". As others have mentioned in the thread it can end up a self-fulfilling prophecy, I just seem to find it hard to decode what's really going on so I can work on changing it.

Instead of "when is this going to blow up on me?" what if you phrased it "this is going really well, but I need to manage my expectations at least until the 6-8 month mark.  That way, you're not expecting doom, but rather, are simply managing your hopes and dreams.

[FredEire]

9 hours ago, basil67 said:

Thanks, now I understand.   With this ex, I'm surprised that you waited till you found out that she'd lied about her age.  Because her behaviour of constantly accusing you of wanting to leave you and spying in your phone should have been a dealbreaker way before that!  Perhaps you were kind tolerated it because you felt sad for her being insecure...but when insecure manifests in abusive behaviour, you need to switch your focus into looking after yourself.  It doesn't matter how much damage someone has in their past, if they aren't treating you well, then you should leave them behind. 

Another one to quickly ditch. 

Good choice on your part.  While it's good to have reassurance from friends and family that the person doesn't throw up any red flags, it doesn't mean that you should keep dating them if the connection is absent.

Instead of "when is this going to blow up on me?" what if you phrased it "this is going really well, but I need to manage my expectations at least until the 6-8 month mark.  That way, you're not expecting doom, but rather, are simply managing your hopes and dreams.

Yeah, in the case of my ex I stayed too long partly through infatuation and partly maybe through buying the story that most of it was my fault for not being committed enough (on my end I probably wasn't ready for a serious relationship but told myself I was).

It quickly became apparent though that although we had amazing chemistry in many ways our biggest compatibilities were in our negativities and self-destructive thoughts. It ended very badly and there was a lot of heartbreak but it's been long enough now I can see that and see that it was the right decision to leave it behind.

I think the lack of confidence in letting things go quicker and maybe accepting more than I should comes from the rarity of feeling any kind of connection. I have a long list of dating partners for my age but within that very little real positive intimacy, as I said a lot more lukewarm "this girl is fun to spend time with but there's no feelings there" type stuff (which quite often goes along with wanting a relationship on her side), and also a whole lot of initial attraction followed by conflict and ugly drama which sometimes seems to come out of nowhere as in the case of this date or the girl I was seeing in college.

Yeah it's definitely a healthier way to look at things. A lot of this I find it very easy to know in theory but very hard to put into practice, unfortunately.

[Versacehottie]

20 hours ago, FredEire said:

Hmm right, interesting. I'll definitely try and research it more.

I definitely struggle with self-criticism in the aftermath of things like this as well, as in if I feel I messed something up that I cared about even if there was bad behaviour on the part of the other person I'd take it all on myself, judging that the fact I'd over-thought the whole thing caused that behaviour, and if I had just been able to relax and be natural it would have gone a lot better and they wouldn't have acted that way.

Anyway, it's an interesting way of looking at things for sure.

Yeah I hope you do. It's pretty much an accepted practice (of positive psychology)--doesn't mean it's easy but yeah. Even understanding that the stuff is connected and correlates would be the first step. 

With the bolded, don't you think that the bolded is CONNECTED to why you likely overvalue a person who IS behaving badly????? And why you would consider to pursue a somewhat toxic and dramatic/moody relationship and why those ones "feel right" to you? I mean, which came first: feeling attracted to that person...or feeling attracted to them once you notice the tiniest inkling that they have some of those traits where you will be on an endless loop of trying to "prove" yourself, win them over etc? And it's "obtaining" a relationship with them that makes the ego feel good---often at any or almost any cost. It's looking for external validation because you don't know how to give it to yourself (internal validation)...If your internal validation was working, you'd have probably immediately been turned off or severely questioning her brattiness, moodiness and ability to fit into your life. Instead someone who is calibrated like you seem to be, runs toward a person like her like "if I can just win her over and make her mine, it will mean I'm worth it/everything will be good". Which usually keeps you in the bad cycle, bad choices of people and actions, such as escalating things with the beer photo, and/or overreactions. 

I think self REFLECTION is a good thing...compared to self CRITICISM which can go too far and cease to become helpful. There is also the way you are wording the thoughts in your head that serve to help you both in the moment as well as long into the future. The way your sentence structure of thoughts you have become a feedback loop for your belief system, which then guides your action/inaction and the way you do those things (attitude, vibe, interpersonal communication style etc). So some self reflection is necessary and helpful of course (i would even say a lot is fine but that is just my personal opinion I have no research on that)..but you have to make sure the way you CHARACTERIZE events that happen to you support your ability to approach similar events (or even your whole definition of yourself) going forward.  The characterization can either be LIMITING and thus unhelpful or more of a learning tool. It can be limited to that event with little to no bearing on future events or you can let it pervade your identity, such as when you have thoughts that "it's difficult for me to find people to date"..That's the type of thought that is limiting: it's attached to your personal identity, projects onto all future events of dating, etc. 

The good news about any of this changing your belief systems work is you can work on it immediately and on your own and stuff comes up constantly within any and every day. Think about it just even for today, when you interact with someone anywhere for example at a coffee shop, giving your order or picking up your drink or anything that happens there. In a 5 minute span I'd be shocked if SOME thought about you personally doesn't come up--even if you barely say a word to anyone.  How can you make those thoughts project beyond your trip to the coffee shop if they are good and limit them to a specific moment in time and exterior events if they are bad? Such as if you have a friendly interaction with the cashier, your take away, ie attributes to your underlying belief system about yourself, could be "I find it easy to meet/be friendly with people" (people who tend to have critical or more negative mindsets might limit good events such as a friendly interaction to JUST that event, to the exterior person and limit it to JUST that time and they belief system might go like this: "i just had a friendly action, but I'm not usually that lucky or it's just that cashier").  If a negative event happens, such as the cashier was rude, a positive mindset person would LIMIT it to that person, even that person just having a bad day or a previous bad customer or something like that; they wouldn't project it onto future events (such as your next trip to that coffee shop, all cashiers or you interacting with people in general--which trust me, some negative thinkers literally go this far!!) and they don't take it "personally", meaning that they don't think it was anything about themselves that caused this bad behavior from the cashier. Positive thinkers are really good at CONTAINING negative events almost to a one-off. Think of how helpful that can be to all future events and to your identity as a whole.

Your underlying belief system will support your confidence and the way in which you take action in the world. It's one of the very few things we have control over and can make the biggest difference in your internal experience of life as well as exterior outcomes of life. 😊

[FredEire]

2 hours ago, Versacehottie said:

Yeah I hope you do. It's pretty much an accepted practice (of positive psychology)--doesn't mean it's easy but yeah. Even understanding that the stuff is connected and correlates would be the first step. 

With the bolded, don't you think that the bolded is CONNECTED to why you likely overvalue a person who IS behaving badly????? And why you would consider to pursue a somewhat toxic and dramatic/moody relationship and why those ones "feel right" to you? I mean, which came first: feeling attracted to that person...or feeling attracted to them once you notice the tiniest inkling that they have some of those traits where you will be on an endless loop of trying to "prove" yourself, win them over etc? And it's "obtaining" a relationship with them that makes the ego feel good---often at any or almost any cost. It's looking for external validation because you don't know how to give it to yourself (internal validation)...If your internal validation was working, you'd have probably immediately been turned off or severely questioning her brattiness, moodiness and ability to fit into your life. Instead someone who is calibrated like you seem to be, runs toward a person like her like "if I can just win her over and make her mine, it will mean I'm worth it/everything will be good". Which usually keeps you in the bad cycle, bad choices of people and actions, such as escalating things with the beer photo, and/or overreactions. 

I think self REFLECTION is a good thing...compared to self CRITICISM which can go too far and cease to become helpful. There is also the way you are wording the thoughts in your head that serve to help you both in the moment as well as long into the future. The way your sentence structure of thoughts you have become a feedback loop for your belief system, which then guides your action/inaction and the way you do those things (attitude, vibe, interpersonal communication style etc). So some self reflection is necessary and helpful of course (i would even say a lot is fine but that is just my personal opinion I have no research on that)..but you have to make sure the way you CHARACTERIZE events that happen to you support your ability to approach similar events (or even your whole definition of yourself) going forward.  The characterization can either be LIMITING and thus unhelpful or more of a learning tool. It can be limited to that event with little to no bearing on future events or you can let it pervade your identity, such as when you have thoughts that "it's difficult for me to find people to date"..That's the type of thought that is limiting: it's attached to your personal identity, projects onto all future events of dating, etc. 

The good news about any of this changing your belief systems work is you can work on it immediately and on your own and stuff comes up constantly within any and every day. Think about it just even for today, when you interact with someone anywhere for example at a coffee shop, giving your order or picking up your drink or anything that happens there. In a 5 minute span I'd be shocked if SOME thought about you personally doesn't come up--even if you barely say a word to anyone.  How can you make those thoughts project beyond your trip to the coffee shop if they are good and limit them to a specific moment in time and exterior events if they are bad? Such as if you have a friendly interaction with the cashier, your take away, ie attributes to your underlying belief system about yourself, could be "I find it easy to meet/be friendly with people" (people who tend to have critical or more negative mindsets might limit good events such as a friendly interaction to JUST that event, to the exterior person and limit it to JUST that time and they belief system might go like this: "i just had a friendly action, but I'm not usually that lucky or it's just that cashier").  If a negative event happens, such as the cashier was rude, a positive mindset person would LIMIT it to that person, even that person just having a bad day or a previous bad customer or something like that; they wouldn't project it onto future events (such as your next trip to that coffee shop, all cashiers or you interacting with people in general--which trust me, some negative thinkers literally go this far!!) and they don't take it "personally", meaning that they don't think it was anything about themselves that caused this bad behavior from the cashier. Positive thinkers are really good at CONTAINING negative events almost to a one-off. Think of how helpful that can be to all future events and to your identity as a whole.

Your underlying belief system will support your confidence and the way in which you take action in the world. It's one of the very few things we have control over and can make the biggest difference in your internal experience of life as well as exterior outcomes of life. 😊

Wow very good post, thanks for taking the time to type all that out!

I think I had a bit of a breakthrough with it today. Had a visit from my sister who's in college and is struggling a bit making friends, feels like people aren't treating her equally and are leaving her out etc. I was very shy in school and had a lot of the same problems but grew out of them in my early 20s and now have a lot of great friends and almost too many plans on any given week.

I told her that my problems with that disappeared once I set boundaries on people and stopped seeking their approval. I started thinking of it more of well what are you going to add to my life as a friend that I don't have already, and if you're going to be snide or not respect my time then I'm going to cut that relationship off pretty quickly. Eventually I learned to just have people's approval automatically because I'd accepted myself as a good friend for others, and anyone who's doesn't treat me as an equal I either spend the absolute minimum time with or never end up talking to in the first place.

About halfway through telling her this I realised I could have been talking to myself, only about my love life! Boundaries, as yourself and others have mentioned in this thread, are probably what I'm missing. I need to set how much I'm willing to put up with, how many red flags I can see before giving someone a fair chance becomes an unnecessary hassle.

For example when I was texting this girl before our first date she seemed to get oddly offended by a joke I thought was fairly innocuous. It might not be enough to cancel the date (although for some it might be), but as you alluded to it might actually have put her up in my estimations subconsciously, as in chasing after the complicated emotionally conflicted girl and trying to win her over, whereas in reality it maybe should have been viewed as a small initial red flag and not really a plus. A reason to go into it with a bit more caution.

Also as you mentioned I may be falling into the same trap as my sister as in thinking if I'd only done X, Y, Z I could have impressed this person, whereas maybe a healthier way to approach it is to put healthier boundaries around dates so in a similar situation she doesn't feel she's able to take the nuclear option and antagonise me into ending things ugly with a really unpleasant name-calling session. In reality it may play out that things just end even earlier, or the date.nevee even happens in the first place, but it would involve a lot less heartache and stress for both of us and possibly allow me to meet healthier people with more potential for a constructive rather than self-destructive relationship.

 

[FredEire]

So I realise this topic is a bit old at this stage, there hasn't really been an update in terms of the date itself but I met an old friend the first time in ages the other day and he asked "what happened to that girl you were into a while back?" so I kind of revisited what happened. He had a totally different perspective on the whole thing and it made me realise I hadn't included a couple of things in OP that I probably should have.

I met this girl through a work thing but we ended up matching on an app. Her profile originally said looking for "something casual", which I was open to at the time but circumstances meant when we originally met nothing was going to happen that particular night.

As it happened we got on really well and I probably projected a lot more onto it than was justified. While we were chatting while I was away it ran very hot and cold but we actually exchanged a couple of intimate pictures that she had asked for (very out of the blue). At times though she'd also say things like she wanted us to dance together when she graduated or take her to visit some place so I still got the sense something more serious was possible. She also changed what she was looking for on her profile to "not sure".

Anyway my friends perspective was that I'd treated the whole thing completely in the wrong way as in she was expecting a bit of chit-chat and then a hookup and was put off by me turning up expecting we were going to get to know eachother better and was probably justified in storming off because we were turning up to two completely different things.

As I said it's pretty much academic at this stage but I was curious what the forum thought about my friend's take. Personally I think she may not have been sure what she wanted by the time we met up and that may have added to the unnecessary tension.

Edited January 2 by FredEire

[Alpacalia]

From storming off to boasting about her "wild Friday night in", was her behavior justified or simply a display of her pride and ego? And the icing on the cake - blaming you for everything.

That she preferred to leave which was in fact a relief. 

You didn't deserve to be treated like a door mat and there's no getting around that.

Even if your friend is correct in his assessment, you're not there to entertain someone who wants to be entertained either. Nor is failure to read her mind a crime. When she states something different to what's on her profile, she should be adult enough to communicate that without throwing tantrums.

Either way you didn't really lose much. She wasn't what you hoped her to be. Just delete anything that will remind you of her (numbers, media etc) and move on.

[FredEire]

1 hour ago, Alpacalia said:

From storming off to boasting about her "wild Friday night in", was her behavior justified or simply a display of her pride and ego? And the icing on the cake - blaming you for everything.

That she preferred to leave which was in fact a relief. 

You didn't deserve to be treated like a door mat and there's no getting around that.

Even if your friend is correct in his assessment, you're not there to entertain someone who wants to be entertained either. Nor is failure to read her mind a crime. When she states something different to what's on her profile, she should be adult enough to communicate that without throwing tantrums.

Either way you didn't really lose much. She wasn't what you hoped her to be. Just delete anything that will remind you of her (numbers, media etc) and move on.

She also said the next day in our fairly unpleasant text exchange that I'd thought she was a whore because of the pictures, even though it was a mutual thing. I think she was insecure about it and came in with a lot of preconceptions that she'd put on herself, looking for me to disprove them somehow.

I've gone on a few dates since this, had to improvise a couple of times since places tend to be full this time of year and plans go amiss quite easily. On no occasion was there any hint of annoyance, impatience or tension like there was with her. It's frustrating that I seem to be most attracted to that sense of difficulty and volatility, or something like that 😅

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts! Straightforwardness and a bit of flexibility definitely is what you want when you're initially getting to know someone.

[Alpacalia]

20 minutes ago, FredEire said:

It's frustrating that I seem to be most attracted to that sense of difficulty and volatility, or something like that 😅

I'm guessing that maybe you're more advanced and do not prefer the Neanderthal definition of a calm, submissive, baby-making cutie pie. You see her as a person who simply wants to be treated how she feels she deserves to be treated and that is highly attractive to you. But it was her tantalizing intimate photos that really reeled you in. 😉

But, truth is, she acted like a brat versus being a confident, independent, strong woman, and respectful as the huntress that you see her as. 

[FredEire]

24 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

I'm guessing that maybe you're more advanced and do not prefer the Neanderthal definition of a calm, submissive, baby-making cutie pie. You see her as a person who simply wants to be treated how she feels she deserves to be treated and that is highly attractive to you. But it was her tantalizing intimate photos that really reeled you in. 😉

But, truth is, she acted like a brat versus being a confident, independent, strong woman, and respectful as the huntress that you see her as. 

Yeah I'm aware there's a certain number of women who enjoy being wined and dined and basically told what to do and where to go and won't appreciate any sort of uncertainty or mutual decision making. It seems an exhausting way to operate though especially in a relationship.

There's a big difference between being strong and confident and throwing your toys out of the pram, sure. I think I did a lot of beating myself up at the time over not being assertive enough on the date but it's not a crime to come in a bit nervous either.

[basil67]

10 hours ago, FredEire said:

Anyway my friends perspective was that I'd treated the whole thing completely in the wrong way as in she was expecting a bit of chit-chat and then a hookup and was put off by me turning up expecting we were going to get to know eachother better and was probably justified in storming off because we were turning up to two completely different things.

I don't agree that she was justified in "storming off".  Storming off should be reserved for when someone is incredibly rude or insulting to us - which you weren't.  Otherwise, the response should be to say "it's been nice to meet you, but we are looking for different things.  I wish you well"

[FredEire]

5 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I don't agree that she was justified in "storming off".  Storming off should be reserved for when someone is incredibly rude or insulting to us - which you weren't.  Otherwise, the response should be to say "it's been nice to meet you, but we are looking for different things.  I wish you well"

She did say before she left "we'll talk another day I'm going home to bed" or something to that effect, but barely looking at me in probably the most pissed off way possible, and then just left.

Yeah I don't think I was at all rude or insulting but she certainly seemed to interpret it that way. The air of conflict seemed to come out of nowhere.

[basil67]

You know, I think most people are good, but there are also plenty of rude/entitled people around too.  Just ask anyone who works in retail!

At this point, you're over thinking it:   You went on a date, she wasn't a good date and it ended.  That's it. 

Perhaps now is the time to figure out why you're ruminating over this?  Please don't give her more thought than she deserves.

[Alpacalia]

5 hours ago, FredEire said:

I think I did a lot of beating myself up at the time over not being assertive enough on the date but it's not a crime to come in a bit nervous either.

No, it's not. I actually find it endearing when he's a bit nervous.

[FredEire]

45 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

No, it's not. I actually find it endearing when he's a bit nervous.

Yeah, I've got this reaction too. It's all relative.

[Versacehottie]

17 hours ago, FredEire said:

It's frustrating that I seem to be most attracted to that sense of difficulty and volatility, or something like that 😅

It sounds like you get suckered by that false surface, ie fake, representation of "value"...

In other words if someone demonstrates to you on the surface that they have "value or worthiness", you fall for it hook, line and sinker. So when she does her bratty, almost IDGAF, "I'm more important than you" thing, she's convey a false surface value (which may/may not be true, and she may/may not believe it herself)....but you take it as TRUTH--most likely because your own self-worth is shaky...

People with shaky or low self worth, often think the easiest, quickest way (and most exciting!) way to give themselves VALUE is by obtaining someone who has some (whether it's real or false, and usually someone who holds themselves in high regard, with only surface to back it up) conveys that very succinctly to the low worth person. And it's a toxic draw to that person. Just guessing...Your life conditioning and priming for this type of person in your life will add to this likelihood. I would just say there really is no shortcut to self worth on your own--it's in the name! Lol it's SELF-worth. You give it to yourself.. You can't obtain it from anyone else, possess people to hope it rubs off on you etc. 

as to her and your friend's take, I need to read it better but I'm guessing, she does her stuff for ego boosts. People can be in a casual mindset (OR only think of you in a casual way) and they are ripe for doing things for EGO BOOSTS...which would explain her behavior IMO. 

[NapoleonBonaparte]

Chat up more women, OP. You're still single, and it's also a numbers game. Your attention and time are extremely valuable, do not give it away for free.

You should have told her they have veggie options since even you said that you knew they did. As for the cow logo, you should have asked if she's got something against cows and how she would hate India because they worship cows over there. Your biggest mistake though was agreeing to her take the lead to go to that other place at which point you should have said, "Don't worry, we'll go there for date 3." If she would of kept arguing, you should have been the one to declare to call it off.

When she sent you an apology a few days later, that's when you should have said, "If you want me to accept your apology, I have to hear it in person, at my place." Just because she doesn't like meat, doesn't mean there aren't other kinds of meat she would like.

Edited January 8 by NapoleonBonaparte

[FredEire]

1 hour ago, NapoleonBonaparte said:

Chat up more women, OP. You're still single, and it's also a numbers game. Your attention and time are extremely valuable, do not give it away for free.

You should have told her they have veggie options since even you said that you knew they did. As for the cow logo, you should have asked if she's got something against cows and how she would hate India because they worship cows over there. Your biggest mistake though was agreeing to her take the lead to go to that other place at which point you should have said, "Don't worry, we'll go there for date 3." If she would of kept arguing, you should have been the one to declare to call it off.

When she sent you an apology a few days later, that's when you should have said, "If you want me to accept your apology, I have to hear it in person, at my place." Just because she doesn't like meat, doesn't mean there aren't other kinds of meat she would like.

Haha actually I did most of that. Told her they had good veggie options which they did and was they only reason I thought of going there.

Didn't want to go to the place she suggested both because it was a bit out of the way, she was already a bit pissed off and as you said she obviously wanted me to take the lead. But after the date she said I had just ignored her and didn't care about her suggestion. Doubt the outcome would have been much better if I had gone, may have just needed to get a taxi home in addition to all the other stuff.

We left the cow place because the atmosphere already seemed poisonous, it was way more expensive than I remembered and there was another place 5 minutes away that I had remembered that was probably a lot better.

On the way there though she declared she was going to the other place and when I mentioned the place I had remembered she stormed off. I've had bad starts to dates, made some pretty poor venue choices where it was clear the girl wasn't a big fan etc but nobody had ever stormed off on me haha so took me a bit by surprise.

Only bit I didn't do was the last thing, sounds like an interesting hail mary 😂

Edited January 8 by FredEire

[Alpacalia]

You know what they say about people that don't eat enough meat? They get grouchy due to iron-deficiency.

In all seriousness though, I'm genuinely sorry about your experience. Sounds pretty unfortunate. Dating can be a minefield sometimes.

[FredEire]

2 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

You know what they say about people that don't eat enough meat? They get grouchy due to iron-deficiency.

In all seriousness though, I'm genuinely sorry about your experience. Sounds pretty unfortunate. Dating can be a minefield sometimes.

Lmao.

Thanks, I resonate with what you and Versace have said here in that I place too much value on girls I meet that are pretty but bratty/high-maintenance/half-interested because of that mystery factor and trying to convince them, when in reality most of these people date for an ego boost and/or time pass and it's not likely to have a good outcome.

I've had a few dates since this one and all were a lot more straightforward, quite nice and easy to get along with girls but I just didn't like them as much. Honestly if any of them had stormed off I would have just laughed, which I know was probably the best reaction to this as well. It's frustrating!

A friend told me he'd recently met up with a girl who used to be best friends of the first girl I dated and had feelings for in college. She had also stormed off on me after a pretty bizarre rant that seemed to come from nowhere, and I was really upset at the time. Apparently this girl had subsequently lived with her and they had fallen out because people started to realise how extremely high-maintenance and sensitive she was about everything. It made me laugh when I heard that because I certain do seem to have a "type", and probably not the healthiest one.

[Alpacalia]

3 hours ago, FredEire said:

Lmao.

It's true. I was a veggie once for several years and I would get the worst headaches and I had an insatiable appetite. As soon as I got into a routine of consuming meat again, that went away completely.

We're just wired a certain way by default I think.

I have a theory about why you're attracted to brattiness/high-maintenance girls.

[FredEire]

23 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

It's true. I was a veggie once for several years and I would get the worst headaches and I had an insatiable appetite. As soon as I got into a routine of consuming meat again, that went away completely.

We're just wired a certain way by default I think.

I have a theory about why you're attracted to brattiness/high-maintenance girls.

Haha is it that I'm also a vegetarian? 😂

Yeah probably a bit off-topic in a dating forum but I agree it's not healthy for everyone. I myself had a B12 definiciency and I'm quite careful now about how I supplement and the foods I eat. A lot of people wouldn't get anywhere near enough protein or just eat soy-based processed rubbish and it has a whole lot of bad effects including mood regulation.

Anyway that's enough diet talk haha, sorry mods!