Disaster of a Second Date

[mark clemson]

11 hours ago, FredEire said:

Only bit I didn't do was the last thing, sounds like an interesting hail mary 😂

Maybe I'm missing something, but she seems weird and a bit emotionally unstable. Rather than a hail Mary, maybe just let her go and look for someone else.

It's easier said than done, but consider making yourself as attractive as possible. IF you can pull off becoming an attractive guy, you will likely have lots of solid options and won't have to resort to follow ups and chasing. The women will chase you.

[FredEire]

12 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

Maybe I'm missing something, but she seems weird and a bit emotionally unstable. Rather than a hail Mary, maybe just let her go and look for someone else.

It's easier said than done, but consider making yourself as attractive as possible. IF you can pull off becoming an attractive guy, you will likely have lots of solid options and won't have to resort to follow ups and chasing. The women will chase you.

The date in OP was a while ago now, so the comment was in jest. I wouldn't imagine we'll have much communication going forward.

I've had an issue pretty much my entire adult life though in that I find it quite easy to meet women in general (I'd rate myself as a relatively good looking, charismatic guy etc), but meeting someone I'm excited about dating (as was the case with this girl) has been very rare and when it does happen it tends to be short-lived and ends in some sort of often bizarre drama.

In my younger years I didn't mind so much passing the time and dating just to date as it was all a new experience. Recently though I've been questioning what I'm looking for and it's become clear I have some tendencies to be more attracted to probably not so healthy women.

[mark clemson]

Yes, "high drama" emotionally unstable women can be appealing for some men - in fact I sometimes find it attractive myself. While the "hot/crazy matrix" thing is obviously a joke, I think there is some of truth to it as well, for some men. However, eventually getting your fingers burned enough times teaches you not to play with fire. Being attractive/having options is probably good - you just need to assess the right woman and stick with her (assuming you do indeed genuinely want a LTR).

You might consider talking to a therapist who specializes in romantic issues and see if they can help you to do a bit better at picking.

[FredEire]

1 hour ago, mark clemson said:

Yes, "high drama" emotionally unstable women can be appealing for some men - in fact I sometimes find it attractive myself. While the "hot/crazy matrix" thing is obviously a joke, I think there is some of truth to it as well, for some men. However, eventually getting your fingers burned enough times teaches you not to play with fire. Being attractive/having options is probably good - you just need to assess the right woman and stick with her (assuming you do indeed genuinely want a LTR).

You might consider talking to a therapist who specializes in romantic issues and see if they can help you to do a bit better at picking.

Indeed, instability = excitement.

I'm a bit unclear what I want at the moment which is part of the problem. I'm open to a relationship with someone I click with but since I very rarely feel that and it seems to be the same kind of unstable woman there's obviously a problem.

I'm seeing someone about it thanks, it's very early stages.

 

[Wiseman2]

12 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Indeed, instability = excitement.

Sometimes people confuse intensity with intimacy. Basically staying a little bit addicted to drama. That's ok. It gets very old very fast.  You'll know when you've mellowed out and it becomes annoying rather than "exciting". 

[FredEire]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sometimes people confuse intensity with intimacy. Basically staying a little bit addicted to drama. That's ok. It gets very old very fast.  You'll know when you've mellowed out and it becomes annoying rather than "exciting". 

For sure, maybe looking for limerance rather than romance. Maybe I'm just not there yet, I have a lot to figure out for sure.

[NapoleonBonaparte]

16 hours ago, FredEire said:

Haha actually I did most of that. Told her they had good veggie options which they did and was they only reason I thought of going there.

Didn't want to go to the place she suggested both because it was a bit out of the way, she was already a bit pissed off and as you said she obviously wanted me to take the lead. But after the date she said I had just ignored her and didn't care about her suggestion. Doubt the outcome would have been much better if I had gone, may have just needed to get a taxi home in addition to all the other stuff.

We left the cow place because the atmosphere already seemed poisonous, it was way more expensive than I remembered and there was another place 5 minutes away that I had remembered that was probably a lot better.

On the way there though she declared she was going to the other place and when I mentioned the place I had remembered she stormed off. I've had bad starts to dates, made some pretty poor venue choices where it was clear the girl wasn't a big fan etc but nobody had ever stormed off on me haha so took me a bit by surprise.

Only bit I didn't do was the last thing, sounds like an interesting hail mary 😂

And you have nothing to lose with that hail mary. At best you will get laid because of it, at worst you'll have a funny story to share. 

[mark clemson]

16 hours ago, FredEire said:

For sure, maybe looking for limerance rather than romance. Maybe I'm just not there yet, I have a lot to figure out for sure.

True limerence is rare for most people as it involves neural changes in the brain. It has similarities to addiction and to OCD and will happen perhaps 5-7 times in your lifetime.

"New relationship energy" is common and happens in most new relationships. But everyone's different and perhaps you only feel NRE (or "enough" NRE to interest you) with a high-drama woman or similar...

[FredEire]

15 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

True limerence is rare for most people as it involves neural changes in the brain. It has similarities to addiction and to OCD and will happen perhaps 5-7 times in your lifetime.

"New relationship energy" is common and happens in most new relationships. But everyone's different and perhaps you only feel NRE (or "enough" NRE to interest you) with a high-drama woman or similar...

Yeah maybe one of these things thats overused in pop psychology such as "I'm a bit depressive/ADD".

I definitely have trouble managing expectations, either putting too much expectation (quite rare) or very little because I'm not all that interested (much more common).

As Versace said earlier in the thread its probably coming largely from a lot of preconceptions, i.e. I find it hard to meet girls I'm genuinely interested in. I know on a logical level there's plenty of people out there for any given person to date who's a great fit for them.

I certainly don't buy into the idea of "the one" in a world with almost 7 billion people. Because of psychological hangups though it can be made more difficult for some to find a "one" who's right to date long term and settle down with.

Edited January 9 by FredEire

[Gaeta]

I find that people that 'think too much' about it usually have a harder time with dating.

Just do it. When it feels right it will unfold without efforts. 

I once was online 3 years with 200 coffee dates before I met my ex. I never asked myself *why me*. I knew if I knocked at enough doors one would open and it would feel right. 

To meet my current boyfriend I went on about 75 dates before meeting him. Once again....I did not ask myself why it did not click with the 74 man before him, it just did not and I'd move on to next. 

Edited January 9 by Gaeta

[FredEire]

9 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

I find that people that 'think too much' about it usually have a harder time with dating.

Just do it. When it feels right it will unfold without efforts. 

I once was online 3 years with 200 coffee dates before I met my ex. I never asked myself *why me*. I knew if I knocked at enough doors one would open and it would feel right. 

To meet my current boyfriend I went on about 75 dates before meeting him. Once again....I did not ask myself why it did not click with the 74 man before him, it just did not and I'd move on to next. 

You're right. It's good that you were so patient. I think a lot of people end up in a sort of "you'll do" relationship either through overthinking or desperation due to a lack of confidence.

[Alpacalia]

On 1/8/2024 at 12:03 PM, FredEire said:

Haha is it that I'm also a vegetarian? 😂

Yeah probably a bit off-topic in a dating forum but I agree it's not healthy for everyone. I myself had a B12 definiciency and I'm quite careful now about how I supplement and the foods I eat. A lot of people wouldn't get anywhere near enough protein or just eat soy-based processed rubbish and it has a whole lot of bad effects including mood regulation.

Anyway that's enough diet talk haha, sorry mods!

We're on topic, she was a vegetarian so we can bring it back... I ate a lot of cheese when I did it & only supplemented when my bloodwork showed I needed it. I noticed that a lot (not all) vegetarians struggle with digestive issues, which is nothing they can help. It's just a lot of work unless you buy a lot of packaged vegetarian food (on average the guys I dated took digestive enzymes, which told me what they were struggling with, that I learned to cook for it).

Needless to say, we ate out (& carried Tums for my sweet tooth).

Lookyloo, don't be so hard on yourself - you come over as a very decent human being. Real women adore that most of all (though admittedly different women admire different traits in men).

[FredEire]

11 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

We're on topic, she was a vegetarian so we can bring it back... I ate a lot of cheese when I did it & only supplemented when my bloodwork showed I needed it. I noticed that a lot (not all) vegetarians struggle with digestive issues, which is nothing they can help. It's just a lot of work unless you buy a lot of packaged vegetarian food (on average the guys I dated took digestive enzymes, which told me what they were struggling with, that I learned to cook for it).

Needless to say, we ate out (& carried Tums for my sweet tooth).

Lookyloo, don't be so hard on yourself - you come over as a very decent human being. Real women adore that most of all (though admittedly different women admire different traits in men).

Yeah, I met a girl once in Italy when I was travelling there. She told me she was vegetarian but she had to give up because she'd become anaemic. But when I asked about diet she what she described was more fruitarian than vegetarian.

I don't agree with the suffering and death of animals for food production, there's good reasons to get into it... but you have to do your research properly rather than just eating whatever as a lot of veggies do.

Also my philosophy for a long time has been you can avoid it on a personal level but if you want to avoid it being in your general area you won't leave the house much, you have to accept it's part of the society we live in. And if you ask a date to take you to a place with beers and burgers the odds they will serve beef ones as well are pretty high 😂

Thanks, I guess I just have to be patient more than anything. And try to go on dates with girls I'm into rather than Mexican stand-offs.

[Alpacalia]

5 hours ago, FredEire said:

Yeah, I met a girl once in Italy when I was travelling there. She told me she was vegetarian but she had to give up because she'd become anaemic. But when I asked about diet she what she described was more fruitarian than vegetarian.

I don't agree with the suffering and death of animals for food production, there's good reasons to get into it... but you have to do your research properly rather than just eating whatever as a lot of veggies do.

Also my philosophy for a long time has been you can avoid it on a personal level but if you want to avoid it being in your general area you won't leave the house much, you have to accept it's part of the society we live in. And if you ask a date to take you to a place with beers and burgers the odds they will serve beef ones as well are pretty high 😂

Thanks, I guess I just have to be patient more than anything. And try to go on dates with girls I'm into rather than Mexican stand-offs.

I became anemic too. I had to give up after 5 years. I too disagree with the suffering of animals and I'm guessing we would be on the same page with research and proper diet!

I do want to give it another try again but I would have to do some serious research first to make sure I do not go all anemic again. Because there are so many different aspects to take into consideration like for instance the quality of soil and where the fruit and vegetables are actually growing and being watered with, which could affect nutrition. Even natural spring water has its negative outcomes according to research.

And seriously good observation. Especially the date thing. Made me laugh.

Edited January 10 by Alpacalia

[FredEire]

7 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

I became anemic too. I had to give up after 5 years. I too disagree with the suffering of animals and I'm guessing we would be on the same page with research and proper diet!

I do want to give it another try again but I would have to do some serious research first to make sure I do not go all anemic again. Because there are so many different aspects to take into consideration like for instance the quality of soil and where the fruit and vegetables are actually growing and being watered with, which could affect nutrition. Even natural spring water has its negative outcomes according to research.

And seriously good observation. Especially the date thing. Made me laugh.

Yep I was vegan for a year too. I went to a lot of vegan food festivals and there's a lot of great nutritious stuff the average person doesn't know about, you have to go out of your way to find it.

Beans, nuts, legumes, soy and other plant proteins are pretty much essential if you want to be healthy, but even then it depends on the individual and how they digest food.

It's kind of thought of as all healthy but stuff like "impossible" meat is pretty terrible for your body.

Edited January 10 by FredEire

[spiderowl]

Hi FredEire,

I am sorry to hear how things went.  I know you were excited about this girl.  We don't know her side of the story, obviously, but it sounds like she was selfish, demanding and spoilt.  I think she did the best thing which was to leave you in peace to find someone more appreciative.  She had already said that the reason she wanted to go out was because she was annoyed with someone else.  This should have been a red flag for you that this is a girl who has an anger problem and blames others for her misfortunes.  I really would advise you don't pursue anything with her.  I think it will only end in anger and tears.  You don't need a spoilt brat to deal with.