Met someone great

[ZA Dater]

Ok I'll start off with an unreserved apology to all those I offended in the past.

I took lots of your advice in board and for the last few months I decided to read and read lots, lots of Jordan Peterson and I can relate to much of it and a lot of it has helped me a lot in life. Rather unexpectedly I met someone great too.

"Why do you not try date her, she will be good for you", must admit I was not very sold on this initially, I had know her for a while on a social level but normally in groups which made interactions challenging. I also thought I was a lesser person and the same old negative thinking I had to fight off, which I think I did successfully.

I ended up spending two odd hours with her one on one at an event, I had a few sips of wine and it was a really great social interaction, lots of positive body language from her too (she has recently broken up with her bf) and I did everything I could to fight awkwardness and mostly won that fight. I loved the conversation and it was really great. 

Of course how attractive she finds me is unknown (enough to play with her hair, point her feet in my direction and give me a very firm hug), she suggested coffee and we are meeting next week, though it may be more professional coffee. Yes I know its not ideal but I actually like her as person so I am going to summon up all the confidence I can find.

The really great positives is there is a fair degree of compatibility.

How confident should I be? What I have learnt is to try steer the conversation to some degree and then let her steer the conversation.

I have had to learn a lot and I have to really, really try each day to banish negative thinking and just be authentic.

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

she suggested coffee and we are meeting next week, though it may be more professional coffee. Yes I know its not ideal but I actually like her as person so I am going to summon up all the confidence I can find.

Go and have a good time. Try to pay attention to her and focus on the moment rather than being preoccupied with pick-up artist "signs", etc. Ask her out one-on-one for a date if it goes well. Try to relax and enjoy yourself. 

[Weezy1973]

@ZA Dater You can’t control how attracted or interested she is  so really not something to worry about. Also confidence comes when you stop relying on any outcome (like her being attracted to you / wanting to date you etc.).  If she’s interested, great! And if she’s not interested, also great! 

[basil67]

8 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

How confident should I be?

Sounds like you've made some great headway!   You can be confident in the things which are under your control - mostly, that you're doing the best you can with what you've got...and that no matter which way it goes, knowing you'll be OK.  

My one thought is to be very careful of which parts of Jordan Peterson you take in.  It looks like he's been helpful in teaching you more flexibility and confidence, but stay judicious over which of his other views you take in.   And for the love of god, do not tell a woman that you're a fan!  I believe most women who have heard of him would run a mile from any man who gave the slightest hint that he's a follower.  

[Alpacalia]

I dig Jordan Peterson's work. I stay away for the politics and some other topics, but he has a very refreshing take.

On that note, knock er' out of the park next week!

 

[ZA Dater]

8 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

@ZA Dater You can’t control how attracted or interested she is  so really not something to worry about. Also confidence comes when you stop relying on any outcome (like her being attracted to you / wanting to date you etc.).  If she’s interested, great! And if she’s not interested, also great! 

Exactly this, I have been trying to not look too far ahead and appreciate the moment rather than get fixated with the outcome. What did surprise me about the time I did spend with her one on one was how easy the conversation was, yes I had work past a lot of my own shyness which I did manage to overcome and when I did get past that I could actually to my surprise find quite a lot of confidence. The conversation flowed well and I was able to "open up" which is something I have been working on getting better at.

I think the primary difference here is that I have realized to some extent there are aspects of this I can control and things I can do.

[ZA Dater]

8 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Go and have a good time. Try to pay attention to her and focus on the moment rather than being preoccupied with pick-up artist "signs", etc. Ask her out one-on-one for a date if it goes well. Try to relax and enjoy yourself. 

Because I know she has recently got out of a LTR I am going to go fairly easy but what I have learnt is sometimes its not what you say but how you say it. There is a lot of common ground in terms of life philosophy and shared interests. What I absolutely must NOT do is doubt myself, this has been a recurring problem for years which I realized has been holding me back badly in many respects. 

Reading a bit has actually given me more confidence that I do have value and I do have something to offer. What I also learnt is what we think of ourselves can be very obvious to others even if we do not think it to be so.

Ultimately I can just enjoy the moment but equally I am determined not to make the same old mistakes I have made too many times. For example this time, I chose the place and chose the time, normally I would do the following "well I am fairly easy, I can fit into your schedule" the take away here is I then come across as indecisive and overly accommodating. 

Each day I am trying to find confidence in everything I do.

[Els]

21 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I decided to read and read lots, lots of Jordan Peterson

Hooooo boy. 😅

If you like reading about relationship tips, have you tried "She Comes First" by Ian Kerner?

13 hours ago, basil67 said:

And for the love of god, do not tell a woman that you're a fan!  I believe most women who have heard of him would run a mile from any man who gave the slightest hint that he's a follower.  

If the OP's planning on dating very conservative women, I guess mentioning Peterson could be beneficial to him. Otherwise.... yeah. It's nearly as bad as saying that you're an Andrew Tate fan, lol.

[ZA Dater]

14 minutes ago, Els said:

Hooooo boy. 😅

If you like reading about relationship tips, have you tried "She Comes First" by Ian Kerner?

If the OP's planning on dating very conservative women, I guess mentioning Peterson could be beneficial to him. Otherwise.... yeah. It's nearly as bad as saying that you're an Andrew Tate fan, lol.

I perhaps should state I find his take on life to be very interesting, agreeable and disagreeable people and how to not fall too much into the latter and why the former really struggle at dating. He is by no means the only reading/listening I have done but I find his motivational talks very helpful.

The meet up next week is a coffee at a place I chose at a time I chose, my take on life has to always be overly accommodating but it would seem this is one way to get into the friend zone which I would like to try avoid. Of course she could simply see me as "business" I guess there is always this risk, more so the way my life is constructed but if nothing else I get a good conversation  because I definitely got that last time, everything was on the table, siblings, growing up, life experiences and I enjoyed being engaged in a conversation and using some of the body language I have learnt.

Perhaps my great mistake in the past was more a mental block to the fact its ok to try without carrying the past around with me like an anchor. Freeing myself from that is an ongoing war but I am mostly winning. Maybe the biggest difference is I do not see defeat before I even start but I do have to say a LOT of people are NOT my cup of tea so from that perspective it will always be difficult for me to find the right people.

 

[ZA Dater]

14 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

@ZA Dater You can’t control how attracted or interested she is  so really not something to worry about. Also confidence comes when you stop relying on any outcome (like her being attracted to you / wanting to date you etc.).  If she’s interested, great! And if she’s not interested, also great! 

This is quite challenging because I so rarely find people who appeal to me but I am going with this approach. I think one of the other problems I have had in the past is I give too much too easily, there is not enough mystery about me. Maybe I am wrong but a lot of the confidence I try carry with me now is based on "you are not better worse than anyone, be the best version of you, you do have something to offer" maybe this is wrong but I have been trying it out in daily life and my interactions and it does seem be of some benefit.

The other way I have been looking at it, everyone has options and its up to me to present myself as a decent option in an authentic way. To do this I am working to drop the considerable baggage and self doubt I carry around, both of which do not help me at all.

If nothing else it would be nice to report back something good and "repay" the kindness shown to me!

[Wiseman2]

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I then come across as indecisive and overly accommodating. 

Try to relax instead of listening to even more gurus about being "alpha". The preoccupation with " how you come across" is not helping. It's keeping you in your head rehearsing and rehashing all these video guru's empty promises of success. 

Please don't discuss politics or dating coaches on dates or make yourself a living experiment of whether these video gurus "alpha" tips are working.  Picking the venue, time and place makes no difference. What matters is asking her out again if things go well.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Wiseman2

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Gaeta said:

This is your mistake here. You've spent enough time on here to know recently separated people are not ready for serious dating and you'll end up being one of her transition guys. 

I actually would be OK with that. I'll also be honest I am punching above my weight class here so there are no expectations from my side but it is nice to find someone I do find attractive as a person rather than attractive because of a few attributes.

Your point is well made though. 

Perhaps my other mistake is once again there is a work angle, I think she may see me as a high value person who can assist her. This being the case I intend to try be a bit smarter about this than I have been in the past. Really the only expectation I have is of myself to try and just be better at however I define better to be and get less lost with the baggage. 

I am always going to be severely impeded by not having a social life so meet ups like these are an opportunity to spend time with a like minded person and to me that is already quite a nice idea.

Each day I have a list of things I am trying to work on and its really hard some days but I am determined to do them for me because I am finding as I work through them I am able to find a bit more confidence where before I had little. 

[ZA Dater]

3 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Try to relax instead of listening to even more gurus about being "alpha". The preoccupation with " how you come across" is not helping. It's keeping you in your head rehearsing and rehashing all these video guru's empty promises of success. 

Please don't discuss politics or dating coaches on dates or make yourself a living experiment of whether these video gurus "alpha" tips are working.  Picking the venue, time and place makes no difference. What matters is asking her out again if things go well.

Years of reading your advice have not been lost on me! I will avoid those topics completely unless she brings up politics which is most likely to be Middle East related. The last discussion was very wide ranging and more of the "get to know me, get to know you" type of small talk which is fine with me because its a wide range of topics and that I enjoy a lot. 

You are right I am just going to take it as it comes from a conversational point of view, I do think she wants to access my network of people but I also need to say that I have seen her at events for probably 3 years so we are not strangers. 

For context I had a date with a Russian tourist a few weeks ago and I did exactly what you suggest and it worked OK but the engagement from her side was limited but I felt confident and yes it would never have gone anywhere but I felt like I had presented myself better in my more authentic way, what I stupidly did in the past was try tailor myself to who I thought the person might like, which was actually hard work and very tiring!

I have listened to a fair few people but what I am taking out of a lot of them is motivation and inspiration to try at least that means getting less fixated with the result. My view is IF I can provide a modicum of attraction I think I can make this work and belief can be a good thing.

As always thank you for your good advice!

 

[Gaeta]

5 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I had a date with a Russian tourist

May I ask what you are looking for in terms of dating? Casual, exclusive, a life partner?

[FredEire]

20 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Go and have a good time. Try to pay attention to her and focus on the moment rather than being preoccupied with pick-up artist "signs", etc. Ask her out one-on-one for a date if it goes well. Try to relax and enjoy yourself. 

Agree with this. Constantly looking for "signs" doesn't allow you to be yourself and relax. Be playful and ask plenty of questions and do your best to listen. She has to like the real you, so don't worry about how you should present yourself, if you're putting on an act this won't help things in the long run.

The main thing though in my opinion is it should be fun so try and treat it as such and have a good time.

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Gaeta said:

May I ask what you are looking for in terms of dating? Casual, exclusive, a life partner?

Very difficult to say because me experience with dating is so limited. In the instance of this tourist, it was just a dinner and nothing more, I just felt like taking someone to dinner, maybe learn something new which I did and have a nice conversation. I suppose that speaks to my very limited social life that I need to resort to doing things like that.

Dating wise, suppose probably more on the long term side but I constantly ask myself "can I actually choose"? 

Casual for me would be a challenging to find as long term primarily because my big attraction is personality and physical attraction, there needs to be a fair amount of both whereas to me at least casual seems to be more focused on just physical attraction, I might be wrong?

[Gaeta]

10 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Dating wise, suppose probably more on the long term side but I constantly ask myself "can I actually choose"? 

It's your life, yes you are the one choosing. 

So going back to Jordan Peterson. He is big on focusing on our goals and doing what needs to be done to move toward that goal. 

If you have no specific goal then you will spread your energy into nothingness. 

Having no dating experience does not mean you cannot look for a long term partner if it's what you want.  You are an adult, you have life experience, you know the difference between good & bad, apply that life wisdom in your dating life.

People that don't find what they want sometimes just don't have established clear enough for themselves what it is they want. 

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Gaeta said:

It's your life, yes you are the one choosing. 

So going back to Jordan Peterson. He is big on focusing on our goals and doing what needs to be done to move toward that goal. 

If you have no specific goal then you will spread your energy into nothingness. 

Having no dating experience does not mean you cannot look for a long term partner if it's what you want.  You are an adult, you have life experience, you know the difference between good & bad, apply that life wisdom in your dating life.

People that don't find what they want sometimes just don't have established clear enough for themselves what it is they want. 

Ultimately yes long term would be a goal, if I can find that person. Perhaps more shocking I have realised I have been too agreeable, too accommodating at times and put the needs of other always ahead of my own, I am looking to take some of that back and find a better mix. 

Applying that wisdom is oddly something I had not thought of, might be stupid to say but I have usually only shown part of my personality, actually I'll tell you why, when I was much younger I got teased relentlessly and to some extent bullied so went into my shell and yes from time to time I can come out from that shell and be me but its been a very uncomfortable place because even years later that teasing and wondering what other thing has bothered me. I decided to try make it bother me less and not that that part win out over being the person I am. 

For example I had a lovely conversation with a random person the other day, normally I'd be too shy to do that. Look there are still social settings I do not enjoy clubs and bars being the main ones but put me around a table at a dinner with strangers and I think I can handle myself pretty well so long as I remain out of my shell and muster as much confidence as I can. Its so easy to say this but its actually quite difficult to do!

[Weezy1973]

4 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

. Its so easy to say this but its actually quite difficult to do!

Yup - it is difficult and like everything else in life becomes easier with practice. So keep doing it! As for JP he’s a clinical psychologist so his self help stuff seems to work for certain people. The political stuff is hit and miss and can easily be ignored.

[mark clemson]

Nice that you met someone you like and that you are perhaps starting to find your footing wrt turning dates into relationships. Having the conversations go well is a biggie as that is part of the "pair-bonding".

 

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

 I suppose that speaks to my very limited social life that I need to resort to doing things like that

It's important to not judge one's own social life as a working adult by the standards of high school and college. Other folks (and you) tend to be too busy. I've found that most new friendships tend to be common interest based, rather than merely proximity/availability to "hang out".

At any rate, GL with the new gal, hope it works out.

Edited November 17, 2023 by mark clemson

[Lisa]

Posts debating Jordan Peterson with other members, either directly or indirectly, are off topic and have been deleted.   As will highly inflammatory comments no matter who they are addressed to.

The focus of this thread is the OP's new outlook to dating.  .

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by Lisa

[ZA Dater]

Another thing that has helped me a lot in aspects more than dating is to try not over think too much, this is an old issue but what I realised I was doing it some of the time because I did not have the confidence to let a conversation flow and project my personality.

In terms of this coffee meet up, I am going to just see how it goes, I am going to try ask her out on a more formal type date but I am going to do it in a non serious way so if its "no" I can just keep the conversation going.

She is supremely confident as her job is very people based so I think this actually helps me because I need to project similar confidence, people here used to tell me "fake it till you make it" and I stupidly ran the idea down, I have tried faking confidence in other aspects and its worked quite well so I think I can know relate better to that suggestion.

My only real concern here is I might be fishing a few leagues above myself but I am trying to not let that idea get into my mind too much, she spent two hours with me, embraced me warmly, I thanked her the next day for a nice event and she mentioned I was great company. 

One thing I have found hugely helpful from a life point of view is having a sort of journal, writing things and this has done a lot to of unload myself from the difficulties of each day.

[Gaeta]

7 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

going to try ask her out on a more formal type date but I am going to do it in a non serious way so if its "no" I can just keep the conversation going.

Why? If she says no then she is not interested in a romantic relationship with you. The smart thing to do is to move on and continue searching for a compatible partner. Making yourself a friend or an orbiter will not help you win the girl, and you'll be spending time and energy on the wrong person. You are not goal focused enough, you waste too much time on the wrong prospect.

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Gaeta said:

Why? If she says no then she is not interested in a romantic relationship with you. The smart thing to do is to move on and continue searching for a compatible partner. Making yourself a friend or an orbiter will not help you win the girl, and you'll be spending time and energy on the wrong person. You are not goal focused enough, you waste too much time on the wrong prospect.

One thing I have learnt is I simply cannot walk back the sort of people I find attractive, when I did some deep introspection I found that what I had been trying to do for years was make myself like people who were interested in me, interested being people who would match with me on OLD, this was not a good place to be. Wasting time on that was a total and complete waste of time, what I would do is go to dinner with tourists, simply because intellectually I find them more interesting them 99% of the locals I have met on OLD.

Ultimately I'll never be truly happy trying to fool myself that I find someone intellectually attractive if I do not. 

Reality is I can spin things in a certain way, I am not an easy person, I am a fussy person and what I find attractive is very difficult to find. Add to the fact I really do not live a very conventional life/balanced life. Compatibility with me is always going to be a problem but I have found trying to adapt myself to what I thought people wanted is a total disaster.

Sure if she does not want to date me, honestly a probable outcome I can live with more so because she is "high value" whereas I am not at face value anyway of very high value. What I can do is back myself in a social situation not in the sense I will be the fun in the room but in the sense I can have an intelligent conversation about many things.

I know I very rarely meet people I find attractive overall so I can just enjoy what there is to enjoy. What I must also say is despite meeting a fair few models, the % of them I actually found attractive was low because of the lack of intellectual stimulation.

Where I have made countless mistakes is to focus too much on the losses rather than way I presented myself which was not ideal in most instances. 

 

[Gaeta]

13 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

One thing I have learnt is I simply cannot walk back the sort of people I find attractive

I did not tell you to do that. I told you use your energy in searching someone else you find attractive. There is no point playing orbiter to a woman that friendzone you.

Little women you find attractive? That's an even bigger reason to not waste time on those who don't want to date you.