Met someone great

[FredEire]

22 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Networking is not manipulative. She had no idea of your inner musings. She was polite, appropriate, friendly and is just doing what people do at events (since you wouldn't ask her on a date).

She has no idea you follow dating gurus and were trying to put that into practice. You're not a victim because you found someone attractive. 

Have to agree, at the end of the day you could go back and forth all day but not much actually happened outside the head trip you are going on. That head trip and why you're going on it is really what you need to work on before you can proceed with anything else dating wise.

And a quest to be more "alpha" and "high value" is a red herring that will lead nowhere. It's about you and your relationship with yourself.

Edited November 27, 2023 by FredEire

[Gaeta]

I think there is reality and what you perceive reality to be.

You said somewhere in this thread that she knew 100% that it was a date. People on here insisted with you ' you sure she understood it's a date?' And you were : yes yes yes.

Turns out it was only a date for you. She was networking, you were on a date. Your reality vs the reality.

And it's the same with all this self analyzing you're doing, it's how you perceive reality even if a dozen people tell you otherwise, you stick to what you beleive is reality. You have a one track mind. You need to change that and open yourself to possibilities. 

[semble]

40 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

There is a possible business tie up which might be mutually beneficial so I am not going to throw that away taking a shot in the dark. When I look at it, there is no interest here at all from her side and I am once again getting the feeling of being "handled/manipulated" 

These are two completely different things.

1- You don't necessarily "throw away a business relationship" by asking a girl out. You ask, she says no, and you move on from it and keep doing the business thing. It's not nearly such a big deal as you make it out to be. If anything, had you asked her out, and had she said yes, and ultimately it didn't work out- THEN you would have thrown out a business relationship.

Which brings me to my next related point-  you don't mix business with pleasure.

2- It appears you completely misread her intentions, she is not now, nor has she EVER been the least bit interested in you in a romantic sense.

This is something you need to work with- your inability to correctly read the emotions and feelings of others. Have you ever been diagnosed as being "on the spectrum?"

[basil67]

46 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

There is a possible business tie up which might be mutually beneficial so I am not going to throw that away taking a shot in the dark.

So you're also keeping her around to use for business purposes.   In that case, just take it for what it is: a business contact who is good company 

[ZA Dater]

14 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Have to agree with @semble on this one. You just needed to ask her out. You’ve lost the window at this point. But as soon as you knew you were attracted to her and you were having a good conversation- even if it was just work related - that’s when you ask her on a date.

 

Confidence is an attractive quality in and amongst itself. Asking a woman out that you find attractive shows confidence, and she’ll find you more attractive because of it. Strangely, it would be an indicator of extreme confidence especially if you’re not conventionally attractive which women find very appealing. 

Well as usual I do the wrong thing, hence me reading and listening to apparent "rubbish" 😂.

Oh well.

Again there is only so much confidence I can muster so I just think " well what is the possibility of her actually being attracted" I met her long term ex and he and I are total opposites in every single way 

I suppose all I wanted to do here I mostly achieved and that was to feel more confident and some fantasy dating was nice. You know how I enjoy that.

[ZA Dater]

3 minutes ago, basil67 said:

So you're also keeping her around to use for business purposes.   In that case, just take it for what it is: a business contact who is good company 

In a different world she'd be exactly the sort of person I would want to date but experience has taught me I can never ever date the people I want to date.

[basil67]

Just now, ZA Dater said:

In a different world she'd be exactly the sort of person I would want to date but experience has taught me I can never ever date the people I want to date.

How is this related to both of you keeping the other around for business opportunity?

[semble]

2 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

In a different world she'd be exactly the sort of person I would want to date but experience has taught me I can never ever date the people I want to date.

You don't even try. You only talk about how afraid you are to ask them out because *gasp* they might say no.

[ZA Dater]

11 minutes ago, semble said:

These are two completely different things.

1- You don't necessarily "throw away a business relationship" by asking a girl out. You ask, she says no, and you move on from it and keep doing the business thing. It's not nearly such a big deal as you make it out to be. If anything, had you asked her out, and had she said yes, and ultimately it didn't work out- THEN you would have thrown out a business relationship.

Which brings me to my next related point-  you don't mix business with pleasure.

2- It appears you completely misread her intentions, she is not now, nor has she EVER been the least bit interested in you in a romantic sense.

This is something you need to work with- your inability to correctly read the emotions and feelings of others. Have you ever been diagnosed as being "on the spectrum?"

My entire life is a mixture of business and pleasure, they are never seperated and they co exist together not always well but mostly well enough.

Nobody I ever find attractive is interested in me, it's a given hence why I read up on body language over an extended period of time.

I am interested because there is a lot I find attractive but again life is not some movie, guys like me don't get to date people like her, perhaps rarely yea.

I'll just keep working on me, for me.

[ZA Dater]

1 minute ago, semble said:

You don't even try. You only talk about how afraid you are to ask them out because *gasp* they might say no.

Been there done that have zero success over a decade plus. No attractive matches at all so again someone who has lots of options will not date someone who has pretty much none. 

I did try the entire conversation and every subsequent communication was about business. She wants my network, not me.

[Weezy1973]

3 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Nobody I ever find attractive is interested in me,

Wow, right back to your old thought patterns eh? Did you already forget your ex-girlfriend where there was mutual attraction? 
 

I know it’s really hard to fight our thought patterns, so this is mostly a kudos for trying so hard, but just realize you still have a ways to go. 

[ZA Dater]

4 minutes ago, basil67 said:

How is this related to both of you keeping the other around for business opportunity?

I can't date her so I may as well try derive some sort of benefit. Which sounds ruthless but I am definitely not going back down the puppy eyed lap up any attention I may get. For once I have some sort of value which is nice. As with every other time I have tried to date I need to find some sort of value I can offer up that may be seen as enticing because as a person there is nothing enticing about me. 

That's a given there is enough evidence to support that.

[Weezy1973]

4 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Been there done that have zero success over a decade plus.

Again this is complete hyperbole. How many women that you’ve found attractive have you asked out in person? We’ll discount OLD because it’s a whole other conversation. So just in person over the last decade plus? You keep these stories in your head that are just defense mechanisms- they aren’t even remotely true. 

[ZA Dater]

Just now, Weezy1973 said:

Wow, right back to your old thought patterns eh? Did you already forget your ex-girlfriend where there was mutual attraction? 
 

I know it’s really hard to fight our thought patterns, so this is mostly a kudos for trying so hard, but just realize you still have a ways to go. 

There was not enough mutual attraction, that was one of the many problems there. I was the primary problem.

I miss her for a multitude of selfish reasons but she is better off without me.

All I can do is try, opportunities are so few and far between as it is. I suppose it doesn't help what I find attractive is difficult to find.

 

[ZA Dater]

1 minute ago, Weezy1973 said:

Again this is complete hyperbole. How many women that you’ve found attractive have you asked out in person? We’ll discount OLD because it’s a whole other conversation. So just in person over the last decade plus? You keep these stories in your head that are just defense mechanisms- they aren’t even remotely true. 

Each time you put a profile up it's an invitation to date, an opportunity to engage, people choose not to. If I'd approached those people in public which would for a start be creepy they would have said no  

I maintain a no on dating sites will not translate into a yes in person. 

What I wanted to do here was to see if my intellectual ability could keep a conversation going, if I could open my personality up enough to get positive body language, I managed that so I can be happy about that. What I am good at won't overcome what I am not but at least it felt good to be good at something and stretch my mind a bit, yea it was my favorites , politics, life and finding out more about her. I could keep the conversation going and was described as "thank you for the good company".

 

[ZA Dater]

32 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

I think there is reality and what you perceive reality to be.

You said somewhere in this thread that she knew 100% that it was a date. People on here insisted with you ' you sure she understood it's a date?' And you were : yes yes yes.

Turns out it was only a date for you. She was networking, you were on a date. Your reality vs the reality.

And it's the same with all this self analyzing you're doing, it's how you perceive reality even if a dozen people tell you otherwise, you stick to what you beleive is reality. You have a one track mind. You need to change that and open yourself to possibilities. 

What possibilities would those be?

[basil67]

17 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I can't date her so I may as well try derive some sort of benefit. Which sounds ruthless .....

Mate, do you know how many of us have had romantic interest in colleagues/business contacts and it's not gone anywhere?  Lots of us!  Loads!   And when it doesn't work out, we continue on with the bit which does work for us.   It's not ruthless, it's life.

[ZA Dater]

12 hours ago, basil67 said:

Mate, do you know how many of us have had romantic interest in colleagues/business contacts and it's not gone anywhere?  Lots of us!  Loads!   And when it doesn't work out, we continue on with the bit which does work for us.   It's not ruthless, it's life.

Probably true. Thank you as always for to everyone for being understanding and nice, it is appreciated. 

I think what I was trying to prove to myself was that I could use another quality to make up for another one and watched an interesting video which suggests that this not really possible because what people are looking for is actually fundamentally the same.

Things I can do

1: Make the best out of the situation, if nothing else I could potentially have a plus 1 for events so I would not need to go alone.

2: Try to keep positive which to be honest is not so easy as another lonely holiday season looms.

3: Try carry some confidence each day

A lot eats at me each day, the fragility of life, the struggles of those around me, the need try project a feeling I am not always feeling and the weight of the past, saw someone else I really liked the other day, married, kids, seemingly perfect life, exactly the sort of guy I'd imagine she would land up with, she is happy so am I am happy for her.

[Wiseman2]

14 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

 experience has taught me I can never ever date the people I want to date.

Unfortunately it seems like you are extremely picky. But that may protect you from women and relationships. It's just odd that you pretend to want a relationship but everything you do deliberately avoids women, dating and relationships. Perhaps you would only like a GF in theory?  This way you could safely stay inside your head and not have to try to understand women or others. 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Wiseman2

[ZA Dater]

10 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately it seems like you are extremely picky. But that may protect you from women and relationships. It's just odd that you pretend to want a relationship but everything you do deliberately avoids women, dating and relationships. Perhaps you would only like a GF in theory?  This way you could safely stay inside your head and not have to try to understand women or others. 

For me an attractive person is someone who is a great conversationalist, I feel comfortable with, is smart, ambitious, well spoken and is what I would term physically attractive. I have always found these qualities attractive and I have met people who have these qualities, this lady has all of them and then some. 

The entire point of me watching things like physch hacks and others is to try gain understanding, gain some tips how, understand more why but ultimately the limiting factor will always be what I find attractive and the competition I have.

All I can do is work on confidence but the truth is I meet very few people so that is a fundamental problem.

[semble]

Go to singles events like speed dating and also activities where a group of singles does an activity together such as a hike or picnic in a local park or a day trip or whatever.

Then you can quickly weed out the once who aren't good conversationalists and the ones you don't find attractive and focus on the rest.

 

 

[ZA Dater]

30 minutes ago, semble said:

Go to singles events like speed dating and also activities where a group of singles does an activity together such as a hike or picnic in a local park or a day trip or whatever.

Then you can quickly weed out the once who aren't good conversationalists and the ones you don't find attractive and focus on the rest.

Not a bad suggestion. I have been to these before and they are very awkward and I need to summon up even more confidence for them, I just found them to be very contrived. Few weeks ago I come across ladies looking for people for a sort of "connections singles", they were approaching random people to determine if they were single, needless to say I was not approached, I sat on a bench afar and noted the sort of people they were approaching and was not too surprised why I was not approached.

In my view the best way to meet people is via friends. I suppose I could try a match making set up thing but again why would someone need to use this? I ask myself that question, what would be wrong with someone that they would need to resort to such a service, heck I ask that about myself too! 

 

[FredEire]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

For me an attractive person is someone who is a great conversationalist, I feel comfortable with, is smart, ambitious, well spoken and is what I would term physically attractive. I have always found these qualities attractive and I have met people who have these qualities, this lady has all of them and then some. 

The entire point of me watching things like physch hacks and others is to try gain understanding, gain some tips how, understand more why but ultimately the limiting factor will always be what I find attractive and the competition I have.

All I can do is work on confidence but the truth is I meet very few people so that is a fundamental problem.

It doesn't come from "understanding why", it comes from being, even if that means owning and accepting your unconfident, cynical state.

I'd guarantee that if you interacted with women as yourself, even if they did find you a bit awkward etc. they'd find you 10x more attractive than the version of you rejecting these realities and trying to come across as a "high-value" "alpha".

One psych hack I think you could try is while talking with a woman you're attracted to say in your head "I feel very awkward and uncomfortable around you", or whatever the reality of your feeling is, rather than worrying about where to place your feet or which way to lean to look more manly in her eyes.

Edited November 28, 2023 by FredEire

[ZA Dater]

3 minutes ago, FredEire said:

It doesn't come from "understanding why", it comes from being, even if that means owning and accepting your unconfident, cynical state.

I'd guarantee that if you interacted with women as yourself, even if they did find you a bit awkward etc. they'd find you 10x more attractive than the version of you rejecting these realities and trying to come across as a "high-value" "alpha".

One psych hack I think you could try is while talking with a woman you're attracted to say in your head "I feel very awkward and uncomfortable around you", or whatever the reality of your feeling is, rather than worrying about where to place your feet or which way to lean to look more manly in her eyes.

Sure i have spent years telling myself that and the results have been terrible, hence I need to do something else and if its looking at body language then at least its something better, I am not attractive the only way I can sort of feel like that is to try and be confident BUT the cost to that is I feel extremely unattractive if ultimately I get nowhere so yes it feels good for a while but ultimately it ends badly. 

For them to find me attractive would actually be what I am trying to accomplish but I never get that far. Instead I need to accept something else.

[FredEire]

1 minute ago, ZA Dater said:

Sure i have spent years telling myself that and the results have been terrible, hence I need to do something else and if its looking at body language then at least its something better, I am not attractive the only way I can sort of feel like that is to try and be confident BUT the cost to that is I feel extremely unattractive if ultimately I get nowhere so yes it feels good for a while but ultimately it ends badly. 

For them to find me attractive would actually be what I am trying to accomplish but I never get that far. Instead I need to accept something else.

Yeah but there's a big difference between telling yourself "I AM awkward and uncomfortable" and "I FEEL awkward and uncomfortable".

It seems what you're doing a lot is self-criticism/pity which is highly unattractive. But if you can own your doubts and negative emotions in the moment it allows you to be a lot more genuine.