Met someone great

[Gaeta]

20 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I have been to these before and they are very awkward and I need to summon up even more confidence for them

So they're awkward. 

First dates are awkard, online dating is awkward, approaching someone is awkward. Get used the the feeling of awkwarness, it won't kill you, it last a moment and then it's gone. 

I agree 100% with @FredEireYou're awkward? then own it, it will be endearing to the right woman. You trying to cover up your awkwarness with some youtube technic is making the awkwarness even more awkward and that's creepy, not endearing. 

[FredEire]

13 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

So they're awkward. 

First dates are awkard, online dating is awkward, approaching someone is awkward. Get used the the feeling of awkwarness, it won't kill you, it last a moment and then it's gone. 

I agree 100% with @FredEireYou're awkward? then own it, it will be endearing to the right woman. You trying to cover up your awkwarness with some youtube technic is making the awkwarness even more awkward and that's creepy, not endearing. 

Yep.

If you want a psychological explanation, people are "programmed" to like those who are acting according to their genuine emotions more, as they are easier to trust.

A sense of putting on an act suggests something hidden, dangerous and not in the cool intriguing way

[ZA Dater]

48 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

So they're awkward. 

First dates are awkard, online dating is awkward, approaching someone is awkward. Get used the the feeling of awkwarness, it won't kill you, it last a moment and then it's gone. 

I agree 100% with @FredEireYou're awkward? then own it, it will be endearing to the right woman. You trying to cover up your awkwarness with some youtube technic is making the awkwarness even more awkward and that's creepy, not endearing. 

I always find your advice interesting, I have tried owning it, it's a total turn off for anyone I have ever found attractive. That's the problem. All I am trying to do is project false confidence.

Mostly I never have much in common, here for once I do but yeah nothing I can do seemingly with the spoken word can make me attractive. That's something else I tried here.

[Weezy1973]

16 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

nothing I can do seemingly with the spoken word can make me attractive. That's something else I tried here.

Asking a woman on a date projects confidence. You didn’t do that here. I don’t mean a cold approach or OLD. I mean speaking with a woman you find attractive, having a nice conversation, then asking her out on a date. And confidence is attractive. So all of the above with the spoken word.

The reason it projects confidence is that it indicates you don’t fear rejection. If she says yes, great, you have a date. If she says no, great, there are other women out that that will be interested. Both answers are a “win”.  But the story in your head doesn’t fit - attractive women are scarce, I’m not attractive, I can’t do anything right…etc. 

So if you want different results, you have to either change the thoughts in your head and then change what you’re doing (I.e. ask women out on dates) or just ignore the thoughts in your head and change what you’re doing anyways.

[FredEire]

41 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I always find your advice interesting, I have tried owning it, it's a total turn off for anyone I have ever found attractive. That's the problem. All I am trying to do is project false confidence.

Mostly I never have much in common, here for once I do but yeah nothing I can do seemingly with the spoken word can make me attractive. That's something else I tried here.

But that's exactly the point, right now you're trying to project false confidence! So don't, project insecurity lack of confidence and doubt and say f*** it, there's things I need to work on but I'm getting out there and I'm trying, here I am warts and all. That's much more attractive than posting on here all the time about how you've tried everything and the situation is hopeless.

[ZA Dater]

20 minutes ago, FredEire said:

But that's exactly the point, right now you're trying to project false confidence! So don't, project insecurity lack of confidence and doubt and say f*** it, there's things I need to work on but I'm getting out there and I'm trying, here I am warts and all. That's much more attractive than posting on here all the time about how you've tried everything and the situation is hopeless.

I tried this exact method for years, being agreeable, presenting myself as I am warts and all. People don't want that, that much has become clear so I wanted to try something else, I have been on dates with awkward people, very unpleasant those dates were.

Once had a date tell me I need to gain experience before dating. 

There are sadly no awards for trying in life. You either do or you don't seemingly.

I appreciate your advice.

[ZA Dater]

45 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Asking a woman on a date projects confidence. You didn’t do that here. I don’t mean a cold approach or OLD. I mean speaking with a woman you find attractive, having a nice conversation, then asking her out on a date. And confidence is attractive. So all of the above with the spoken word.

The reason it projects confidence is that it indicates you don’t fear rejection. If she says yes, great, you have a date. If she says no, great, there are other women out that that will be interested. Both answers are a “win”.  But the story in your head doesn’t fit - attractive women are scarce, I’m not attractive, I can’t do anything right…etc. 

So if you want different results, you have to either change the thoughts in your head and then change what you’re doing (I.e. ask women out on dates) or just ignore the thoughts in your head and change what you’re doing anyways.

Fair points. My question to you is do you ask someone out if you think they might be interested or not?

Agreed different results but surely it's absolutely pointless asking someone out who clearly has no interest? 

Here I really tried to step out of the normal thinking mostly because I could see it would be worth doing so IF I could generate any interest.

I felt pretty good mixing it up and trying to actually look at the positives and potential, a lot of what I look at is potential, if I meet someone I really like some of why I like them will be be as a result of " could I see myself spending lots of time with this person". Is that unreasonable?

[NuevoYorko]

21 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

 I prefer not to be rejected, have had quite enough of that thanks. 

So you've made your choice.  Move on.  Whining hours are now closed for the holiday season.  

[ZA Dater]

12 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

So you've made your choice.  Move on.  Whining hours are now closed for the holiday season.  

Happy holidays to you.

Do you ask people out who have shown no interest?

[Gaeta]

44 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Once had a date tell me I need to gain experience before dating. 

There are sadly no awards for trying in life. You either do or you don't seemingly.

So that person you met once, that does not know you, holds the truth on what you need....

A few years ago I went online to find a potential partner. It took 200 dates over 3  years before I meet my someone. I never complained about it being hard, about why others don't have a hard time, why me this & why me that. I did not analyze what I did wrong and what I did right, my theory was if I knock at enough doors one will open. 

You are too busy pocking sticks in your own wheels, get on the bike and roll until you find what you want. 

[Alpacalia]

48 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

Whining hours are now closed for the holiday season.  

That's gold.

I need to make this into a sticky note.

[ZA Dater]

50 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

So that person you met once, that does not know you, holds the truth on what you need....

A few years ago I went online to find a potential partner. It took 200 dates over 3  years before I meet my someone. I never complained about it being hard, about why others don't have a hard time, why me this & why me that. I did not analyze what I did wrong and what I did right, my theory was if I knock at enough doors one will open. 

You are too busy pocking sticks in your own wheels, get on the bike and roll until you find what you want. 

I am glad that worked for you, it's exactly what I did over a 15 year period on dating sites. 

Unfortunately the way I live is by analysis, where I can improve, what I am good at, what I can be better at etc. I have found what I want sporadically, never on dating sites where I haven't had any real luck but when I do find what I want I just never seem to have what those people want.

At some point people who never seem to succeed need to understand why, understand what the market wants, understand their own shortcomings.

My view is I cannot control what other people want but I can learn to try read those wants, trust me a lot of what I have watched and read is truly painful when I equate it to myself , it's much the same feeling I had with therapy, a degree of hopelessness.

What does make me feel good is to tell myself I have value even if I don't have attraction, I have a degree of intelligence even if I dont have charm, I have manners even if I can't flirt, I have capacity to care even if I have no ability to seduce. Is its really wrong for me to value the person I am?

Something I got out of the interactions with her were for once I didn't need to live vicariously through everyone around me who seems to forever to be finding these amazing people while I sit in daring sites accomplishing nothing. It was really nice to believe again even if briefly.

Some interaction today but it was all about my network.

[FredEire]

38 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I am glad that worked for you, it's exactly what I did over a 15 year period on dating sites. 

Unfortunately the way I live is by analysis, where I can improve, what I am good at, what I can be better at etc. I have found what I want sporadically, never on dating sites where I haven't had any real luck but when I do find what I want I just never seem to have what those people want.

At some point people who never seem to succeed need to understand why, understand what the market wants, understand their own shortcomings.

My view is I cannot control what other people want but I can learn to try read those wants, trust me a lot of what I have watched and read is truly painful when I equate it to myself , it's much the same feeling I had with therapy, a degree of hopelessness.

What does make me feel good is to tell myself I have value even if I don't have attraction, I have a degree of intelligence even if I dont have charm, I have manners even if I can't flirt, I have capacity to care even if I have no ability to seduce. Is its really wrong for me to value the person I am?

Something I got out of the interactions with her were for once I didn't need to live vicariously through everyone around me who seems to forever to be finding these amazing people while I sit in daring sites accomplishing nothing. It was really nice to believe again even if briefly.

Some interaction today but it was all about my network.

It's not a maths equation. Looking at it that way isn't ever going to work because there's no "formula" for love.

It's tough if it's something you don't naturally "get", but admitting that and that you have to relax and accept your difference is the first step to a happier life, I reckon.

[Weezy1973]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

My question to you is do you ask someone out if you think they might be interested or not?

Yes. Even more so in your case as you’re pretty much always going to believe a woman you’re attracted to won’t be interested, and confirmation bias is a powerful thing. With this woman I think you’ve lost the window of opportunity, but in the future if you’re having a nice conversation with a woman you’re attracted to, go ahead and ask her on a date. Worst case scenario she says no. 

[ZA Dater]

29 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Yes. Even more so in your case as you’re pretty much always going to believe a woman you’re attracted to won’t be interested, and confirmation bias is a powerful thing. With this woman I think you’ve lost the window of opportunity, but in the future if you’re having a nice conversation with a woman you’re attracted to, go ahead and ask her on a date. Worst case scenario she says no. 

I will will seemingly never find the right window of opportunity or if I did by some miracle I'd just mess something else up. Agreed confirmation bias is a powerful thing and it can only be eradicated when that bias is proven to be wrong, now you and I are on the same page (its taken a few years on my part to get onto that page). You now completely understand what I am actually trying to do to and that is to prove my confirmation bias wrong and to prove my thinking is wrong. Everything I have tried to do is with this in mind and its why OLD has made me chronically unhappy because its never going to work to prove that confirmation bias wrong when I never got any matches I found attractive, if anything it made the confirmation bias worse.

This is really a great post because you summed up my entire problem in perhaps one line.

Each "no" just makes that bias ever stronger which is exactly why I actually look for any sigh of interest and its also why I have been reading and watching to see if I can get better at this or at the very least rationalise that bias.

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, FredEire said:

It's not a maths equation. Looking at it that way isn't ever going to work because there's no "formula" for love.

It's tough if it's something you don't naturally "get", but admitting that and that you have to relax and accept your difference is the first step to a happier life, I reckon.

Its a bitter pill to swallow, I can tell you that much. 

[Gaeta]

4 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I will will seemingly never find the right window of opportunity or if I did by some miracle I'd just mess something else up

We become the stories we tell ourselves. 

5 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

when I never got any matches I found attractive

Maybe you could be flexible on this aspect. The way you talk about rarely finding a woman attractive it's like you're looking for a Miss South Africa. You also have identified yourself as not attractive here and there in this thread but you want an above average woman, so above the crowd that you rarely come across such a woman. 

[ZA Dater]

1 minute ago, Gaeta said:

We become the stories we tell ourselves. 

Maybe you could be flexible on this aspect. The way you talk about rarely finding a woman attractive it's like you're looking for a Miss South Africa. You also have identified yourself as not attractive here and there in this thread but you want an above average woman, so above the crowd that you rarely come across such a woman. 

Unfortunately that is very very challenging. I like dynamic, intelligent, outgoing, ambitious people and yes she should be slim and yes many models I have met in passing do NOT meet my criteria for attraction, maybe the best way I can describe it is to say the person has to make me feel something and this is indeed very rare. 

Maybe some people call this butterflies I do not know if that would be the correct term. Oddly enough someone is attractive if I can see myself spending lots of time with them. 

I do not want to disrespect anyone here as that is not my intention but in 15 years I have basically maybe found I can never attract people who are vaguely attractive, its just the reality I guess, I have sat at dinners bored because the conversation is just not there and we cannot relate to each other, this happens often so I then resort to some sort of interview type date because there are just no topic to talk about. 

On the other hand I have perhaps 4 people want to hook up after one date, I passed on all of them because the intellectual and physical attraction was just not there. Not sure how I come across here (probably as a village idiot but nevertheless) but I do like to think, I do like wide ranging topics, world affairs, the infamous politics, business and when few people seem to tick these boxes, I did match with someone exceptional from the US who did tick all of these but as a tourist that was never going to go anywhere. There are people like that here but its incredibly difficult to find them and they now what they have and that is the ability to choose.

I'd love to break the confirmation bias one day.....

Maybe I have just eaten too much cake in life.