Huge Fight After 3 Months

[helloladies21]

15 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

Why didn't you just stop seeing her? Clearly, she wasn't worth the time nor the energy if she was making you feel like that. And if she was under the assumption that you guys had something going then maybe it would've been better to clear the air. Maybe something got misconstrued.

I really think she said that you could date other woman because she probably though that's what you'd want to do. Did she reject you or did you reject her first because it didn't sound like she would want someone who just dates other girls. It just doesn't make sense if you want a relationship with someone you would date and have sex with other people.

At least, you wouldn't WANT TO.

And if it hurt as much that this woman didn't want a relationship with you then you would have stopped seeing her not keep seeing her along just to fill a void.

I didn't stop seeing her because I cared about her and had developed feelings for her. I did feel like she was worth the time and energy. I tried to clear the air with her several times. Every few weeks the subject of us would come up and she kept kicking the can down the road.

No, she said I could date other women so that she wouldn't get close to me. It was a defense mechanism.

100% she rejected me first. I never rejected her. I remember our conversation:

Me - "What are you looking for with me?"

Her - "I would like to be in a relationship again someday."

Me - "That's a great answer, but that wasn't the question I asked. What are you looking for with me?"

Her - Unable to respond either way.

This conversation repeated every few weeks. All the while, acting as if she was my gf and I was her bf. So many mixed signals.

I think she would have been hurt to find out that I was dating someone else, especially the longer we dated, but she would have rationalized it in her mind as "Oh well, I guess he wasn't interested in me.", completely pinning it on me. This is a self defense mechanism.

On a certain level, the entire situation doesn't make sense. "I love you, but I don't want a relationship with you." But it does make sense if you account for some walls she has up.

It doesn't make sense that someone, who wants to be in a relationsuip, would sleep with other women, unless that person was rejected (me) and wanted to give the other person (her) a chance to have a Come to Jesus moment. I wanted to give her a chance to really fall for me and get comfortable with the idea of being with me. Her experience with me was very good.

I was not seeing her to fill a void. I was seeing her to give her a chance to warm up to the idea of being with me and because I cared about her.

[NuevoYorko]

You expect full vulnerability and a commitment of exclusivity  from a woman well  before you are willing to  offer the same.

You have a few threads here.  So far, it has not seemed to have worked out for you.

It certainly has not worked out for any of the women - not the ones you like, or the ones you're just using as a buffer for your ego.   Frankly, it's extremely controlling behavior and a healthy woman will run.  

Both people need  to be prepared to put themselves in a position of vulnerability before making a complete commitment.  That's "skin in the game" and without it, nothing worthwhile is going to happen.

 

[Alpacalia]

10 hours ago, helloladies21 said:

I didn't stop seeing her because I cared about her and had developed feelings for her. I did feel like she was worth the time and energy. I tried to clear the air with her several times. Every few weeks the subject of us would come up and she kept kicking the can down the road.

No, she said I could date other women so that she wouldn't get close to me. It was a defense mechanism.

100% she rejected me first. I never rejected her. I remember our conversation:

Me - "What are you looking for with me?"

Her - "I would like to be in a relationship again someday."

Me - "That's a great answer, but that wasn't the question I asked. What are you looking for with me?"

Her - Unable to respond either way.

This conversation repeated every few weeks. All the while, acting as if she was my gf and I was her bf. So many mixed signals.

I think she would have been hurt to find out that I was dating someone else, especially the longer we dated, but she would have rationalized it in her mind as "Oh well, I guess he wasn't interested in me.", completely pinning it on me. This is a self defense mechanism.

On a certain level, the entire situation doesn't make sense. "I love you, but I don't want a relationship with you." But it does make sense if you account for some walls she has up.

It doesn't make sense that someone, who wants to be in a relationsuip, would sleep with other women, unless that person was rejected (me) and wanted to give the other person (her) a chance to have a Come to Jesus moment. I wanted to give her a chance to really fall for me and get comfortable with the idea of being with me. Her experience with me was very good.

I was not seeing her to fill a void. I was seeing her to give her a chance to warm up to the idea of being with me and because I cared about her.

Try not to fill your plate with other women when you're seeing someone and have feelings for them. It's wrong and hurts the woman who you're using as your self-esteem workbench.

Yes, I see your perspective. It sounds like you were trying to give her time and space to figure out her feelings for you, but at the same time, you were kind of keeping your options open and seeing other women. It's understandable, but it can also send mixed signals and potentially hurt her. In the future, it might be better to have an open and honest conversation about what you both want from the relationship, rather than playing these games with each other.

[helloladies21]

I'm driving, so I can't respond to the previous two posts fully yet, but we are running off on a tangent. I am not interested in critique of my dating technique regarding dating multiple partners. I find it completely ethical to date others until I'm in an exclusive relationship, have had success doing it this way in the past, and don't believe it had any effect on the current situation.

I made an offer to get into a relationship a week and a half in. She essentially rejected my offer. I was under no obligation to be monogamous with her at that point. Advising me to do otherwise is absurd.

[Els]

34 minutes ago, helloladies21 said:

don't believe it had any effect on the current situation.

You are an adult and can do whatever you want as long as all parties give informed consent, but this belief of yours is absolutely absurd. I'm a monogamist and I would never take anyone seriously if they were multidating to this extent. I can guarantee you that you are specifically selecting FOR non-committal women with this technique of yours, ethical or not.

I also notice that you avoided @basil67 's question re: unprotected sex...

[helloladies21]

7 minutes ago, Els said:

I'm a monogamist and I would never take anyone seriously if they were multidating to this extent.

I can guarantee you that you are specifically selecting FOR non-committal women with this technique of yours, ethical or not.

Once again, we are running off on a tangent that is unrelated to my original post. Please keep this on topic

Multidating to what extent?

That is an incorrect conclusion. Most of the women I date are looking for a monogamous relationship with me. I'm the one that ends it over 90% of the time.

[Alpacalia]

39 minutes ago, helloladies21 said:

I'm driving, so I can't respond to the previous two posts fully yet, but we are running off on a tangent. I am not interested in critique of my dating technique regarding dating multiple partners. I find it completely ethical to date others until I'm in an exclusive relationship, have had success doing it this way in the past, and don't believe it had any effect on the current situation.

I made an offer to get into a relationship a week and a half in. She essentially rejected my offer. I was under no obligation to be monogamous with her at that point. Advising me to do otherwise is absurd.

Well, kind of seems a bit backwards.

Wanting to be exclusive with someone isn't meant to be some sort of bargaining chip. It's a desire that 2 people have when they connect. It would be where one reaches a point that they aren't interested in entertaining other options.

I.E. "look, I really like you and would like to explore where this relationship could go and I am not interested in dating other people, how about you?"

But anyways. You got into this relationship with a timeline of when things should happen, and when they didn't meet your timeline, you try and salvage something that was barely underwater already. If after a certain amount of time this girl doesn't want you. Then she never wanted you in the first place. And if that doesn't work out, then move on.

PS. You're texting and driving? Eeek! Watch out for tumbleweeds.

[Wiseman2]

14 hours ago, helloladies21 said:

, I made it clear that I was going to see other people. She was not happy with that response and stormed out. I haven't heard from her in over a month. 

She stood up to you and stood up for herself. That's ok. If you want to date around that's your right but she's wise to walk away and not look back.

Sometimes people call your bluff instead of acquiescing to ultimatums, and this seems to be the case.

You don't seem compatible either way so it all worked out in the end. 

[helloladies21]

Just now, Wiseman2 said:

She stood up to you and stood up for herself. That's ok. If you want to date around that's your right but she's wise to walk away and not look back.

Sometimes people call your bluff instead of acquiescing to ultimatums, and this seems to be the case.

You don't seem compatible either way so it all worked out in the end. 

That's not correct. She didn't stand up to me. There was nothing to stand up to. It's not like I was oppressive or forcing anything on her. And I don't agree that she would be wise not to look back. I was very good to her and she was very happy until her defense mechanism went up.

I didn't make any bluff. And I fully stand by my ultimatum, if you want to call it that, which I don't agree with that characterization. She said she wasn't interested in a relationship with me. I said I'm going to go see other people. It's a perfectly reasonable response under the circumstances.

I don't disagree that we're not compatible. She's not ready for what I'm looking for.

[NuevoYorko]

Multi-dating is one thing.  Polyamory is a thing.  

What you do is a different thing:  a power play / manipulation tool.  You are "teaching her a lesson" because she didn't proclaim her love and her intention to only date you,  by having sex with other people.  

My understanding is that if she "proved" herself to be worthy, and had forsaken all others, you would be potentially willing to be monogamous with her.   

And as everyone here who is or has been in successful loving relationships is telling you, nobody with any semblance of self esteem will stay around for that game.  

There are damaged women who will get desperate when they know that they need to commit to you even whilst you are [playing] around or else you'll be gone.  Lots of them.   I'm surprised you don't have one of them stashed at your house waiting to serve you at your whim.  It seems, however, that you keep getting attracted to women who expect a lot more out of a man who claims to be seriously interested in them.

I'm sure you will ask to have this thread closed like you have done in the past.  Something must be resonating with you though.   I mean ... you're doing the same things, getting the same results, AND your threads continue to end up right here.

Edited December 22, 2023 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[Wiseman2]

29 minutes ago, helloladies21 said:

I didn't make any bluff. And I fully stand by my ultimatum, 

Then why are you hoping she will come back?  If you wanted it to be over, it's over. If you wanted to manipulate her with the dating others suggestion unfortunately it didn't work. 

[Alpacalia]

29 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

You are "teaching her a lesson" because she didn't proclaim her love and her intention to only date you,  by having sex with other people.  

Indeed.

From my understanding she wasn't even dating other people, which makes this whole thing even more bizarre.

[helloladies21]

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Then why are you hoping she will come back?  If you wanted it to be over, it's over. If you wanted to manipulate her with the dating others suggestion unfortunately it didn't work. 

I'm not hoping she'll come back. She made her decision and we're stuck with it. This is in the Coping with Loss forum.

And I wasn't hoping to manipulate her either. There's no basis for that statement.

Edited December 22, 2023 by helloladies21
Additional information

[helloladies21]

1 hour ago, Alpacalia said:

Indeed.

From my understanding she wasn't even dating other people, which makes this whole thing even more bizarre.

No that is not correct. I am not so immature to teach anybody a lesson. She did go on a couple of dates with another guy early on in our dating and was definitely on all of the dating apps. I believe she was mostly just window shopping. And she hadn't completely kicked her ex out of her life. He was still on her socials. It would be incorrect to make her out to be some saint. 

[helloladies21]

2 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

Multi-dating is one thing.  Polyamory is a thing.  

What you do is a different thing:  a power play / manipulation tool.  You are "teaching her a lesson" because she didn't proclaim her love and her intention to only date you,  by having sex with other people.  

My understanding is that if she "proved" herself to be worthy, and had forsaken all others, you would be potentially willing to be monogamous with her.   

And as everyone here who is or has been in successful loving relationships is telling you, nobody with any semblance of self esteem will stay around for that game.  

There are damaged women who will get desperate when they know that they need to commit to you even whilst you are f*****G around or else you'll be gone.  Lots of them.   I'm surprised you don't have one of them stashed at your house waiting to serve you at your whim.  It seems, however, that you keep getting attracted to women who expect a lot more out of a man who claims to be seriously interested in them.

I'm sure you will ask to have this thread closed like you have done in the past.  Something must be resonating with you though.   I mean ... you're doing the same things, getting the same results, AND your threads continue to end up right here.

I am not polyamorous or monogamous. I don't feel the need to put myself in any kind of box like that. If I find someone who I want to be monogamous with and they want the same, I will only be with them. That's what I've done in the past. But unless I'm in a monogamous relationship, I will date multiple people. This is not some revolutionary idea.

I will be the one to say who my intentions were. They were not to manipulate anyone. I wanted to be in a relationship with her, she was not ready to take that step, so I continued to date others. There's no moral that this violates. Nobody will be able to convince me otherwise.

She did not have to prove herself at all. I openly made the offer one and a half week into dating her to be in a monogamous relationship. If she would have indicated any interest in the same, I would have immediately stopped dating all other people and gotten it to him and I got this relationship with her. I'm going to keep reiterating this over and over again until people on this thread understand it. All of you are not going to be able to convince me that I wanted something that I didn't want, or didn't want something I did want. I would know best.

I never played any game with anyone. From a certain point of view, her straddling the fence with me for 3 months while I kept trying to inquire about what she was looking for with me could be seen as her playing a game. Although I don't believe that that would be correct either. She's not that unethical.

Nobody "needs" to commit to me. This is an absurd statement you're making. I only want somebody to be with me if they want to be with me. If they don't want it, I'm going to go find it someplace else. In order to accomplish that, I'm going to have to date multiple people.

I get some good advice from posters on my threads every once in awhile. I haven't gotten any on here, just a bunch of judgment from people twisting the facts I clearly state making me out to be some kind of player looking to use women. It's not true and it's not working. But maybe someone will volunteer something positive.

[helloladies21]

3 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

I'm sure you will ask to have this thread closed like you have done in the past.  Something must be resonating with you though.   I mean ... you're doing the same things, getting the same results, AND your threads continue to end up right here.

Let's run through the women I posted about on this form. The first one had PTSD from an abusive ex. I did not date any other women while I was dating her.

The second one wasn't attractive enough and too boring for me. She was very much interested in a monogamous relationship with me. I made it clear that I was not interested in that.

This girl has attachment issues. I was more than ready to get into a monogamous relationship with her, but she's not ready for that.

Where are the similarities between these situations? I don't agree that something is resonating with me in these threads. I get a lot of bad advice that I have to sift through in order to get to a golden nugget every once in awhile.