Crossroads. Is This the End?

[Alpacalia]

My boyfriend and I met in California and fell in love.

When we first met, he had plans to pursue a Ph.D., which might involve moving. After almost two years together, I suggested he apply for a Ph.D. program in California. However, I was torn between my life on the East Coast, where I'm originally from, and our life in California. Missing my friends back East made me feel homesick, and I was uncertain about staying put for five years while he completed his degree.

The decision is tough; it felt like my value was being judged, and our life together was just one aspect of his plans. We both have experience moving around and maintaining connections with friends and family in different places, so he didn't see moving temporarily as a big issue.

In the end, he chose a distant location, and I was upset, though I've come to understand why it was important to him. I'm struggling with feeling torn between places, longing for a settled life together.

He worries that even if he returns, I might not be able to forgive him for the time apart. He thinks I'm dwelling on the past, wishing he stays. I've unintentionally taken out my sadness and fear on him, expressing anger, which hurts him deeply. We both feel guilty.

I know he loves me deeply, and I love him too. He said he will visit every few weeks, but what if it doesn't meet our expectations. I'm trying to figure out if that should matter.

He works and works hard to show he cares, but nothing seems enough. It feels like I'm being unfair and that seems wrong and destructive on my part. However, we chose this path, and I worry about the lasting effects of the years ahead. My question is whether a point comes when something that hurts so much means we should part ways.

I have been trying to fill my time with activities, so that 24/7 I'm not thinking about 5 years from now and what it does, but the sadness randomly emerges and I am left crying. Nothing is as fulfilling as spending time with him. I don't know how to navigate this, and it's causing a lot of pain for both of us.

[Wiseman2]

53 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

he chose a distant location, 

Sorry this is happening. Only you know if you're cut out for distance relationships. If the specific program he's interested in is at a distance, he needs to go where he needs to go. When will he move and how far apart will you be? 

[glows]

What was the actual reason for picking a distant program? Is it because the program truly is phenomenal over there and is like no other near where both of you are or does his decision rationally make zero sense to you? Would you walk me through his reasoning for picking this program far away? Perhaps there’s a specific reason he would want the opportunity to live in this city or area? 

I ask because you seem to be hurt and upset with the situation. If the program is truly like no other where he has picked to go, be happy for him and encourage him to grow! 5 years long distance is survivable and it’s for a specific reason only and you do need to know why. I’d be just as hurt and upset if there were a plenitude of excellent programs around and my partner chose a program 1000 mi away “just because”. It would feel like an insult and as if the other person was looking for a reason to break up(or accelerate a break up in this case). This doesn’t sound like the case but not clear why he chose this locale or program. 

I’m not sure what you mean by feeling your value is judged. It sounds heavy and oppressive and painful. Can you explain this a bit more?

I see that you’ve both more or less anticipated some kind of long distance would be a high probability early on and always knew it there was a high chance it would come to this. I remember your threads two years ago when you were single and dating, things with your dad caused so much worry recently and I did wonder how things were going with your partner. I’m sorry this is just one more thing added to your plate.

Edited November 25, 2023 by glows

[Sony12]

Having a relationship workout is often just as much about timing as it is how the two people feel about each other. Are they in a place in their life to where they are ready to settle down and completely commit to someone? A lot of relationships end not because the two people don't love each other but simply because the timing wasn't right at that point in their lives.

[Alpacalia]

The program is overseas in Europe.

He has wanted to study in Europe and this Ph.D. program in particular has a strong focus on his research interests and more funding for the field of study (Political Science). He was offered a fully funded scholarship and the opportunity gains a global perspective on his research topic (which I don't really want to disclose because it's sensitive and very specific). I know when he graduates he wants to use his expertise to pursue career in academia or international organizations, and this program would give him an edge in those fields.

I also know he really wants this opportunity and I don't want him to miss out on it. There are so many benefits for him personally and professionally, and I know how hard he has worked to get to this point. We have been together for almost two years. I am only hurt and upset because I will miss him so much and I am afraid of what the distance might do to us. 

How we will make our relationship work with the time difference and his busy schedule as a PHd student. 

He offered for me to come with and I have worked hard to establish myself in my own educational pursuits and I am not sure if I am ready to give that up to follow him overseas. I want to support him and his dreams, I have mine too.

The other factor is that my father is still recovering from his stroke and I need to be available right now for whatever comes next. He is getting stronger everyday and recently had movement in his fingers (his right arm and hand are still paralyzed) but he is still wheelchair bound and has difficulty speaking and his personality is very different from what it was and I'm still adjusting to the fact that my father is a different person now.

So I am just reeling from a bit of conflicting emotions about his acceptance to this program. The times that I have been upset towards him wasn't fair to him, especially since he expressed that he was grateful for the opportunity and sad about leaving me behind. I tried to explain that this is just a difficult situation and I am still trying to process everything. He says he will come visit as much as he can, and I can him, but I am also trying to be realistic in that these are very different circumstances given our stage in life and is busy Ph.D. program.

We won't have the same freedom and flexibility of a short study abroad program. I thought initially, because I decided to pursue a degree of my own later in life, and him a bit later too that we were kind of on the same trajecotry. I didn't fully think this through and thought that he was thinking about that too.

[Alpacalia]

2 hours ago, Sony12 said:

Having a relationship workout is often just as much about timing as it is how the two people feel about each other. Are they in a place in their life to where they are ready to settle down and completely commit to someone? A lot of relationships end not because the two people don't love each other but simply because the timing wasn't right at that point in their lives.

Yeah, that's how I feel. The timing sucks! There have been so many life challenges as of late and I am just emotionally exhausted and I honestly don't know if I am capable right now of exerting the effort with everything else that is going o in my life, not because he isn't worth it, but because I want to be there for my family at the same time and I just feel like I am being pulled in so many directions.

[BaileyB]

He thinks he’s going to be able to travel from Europe every few weeks to visit you? 

You are not alone, I would find this very stressful and disappointing too. I think you need to follow your heart - if it leads you to Europe, that’s wonderful. If you need to make a different decision for yourself, to stay close to family and friends and follow your own career interests, there is nothing wrong with that either. Only you can make that decision… it’s a hard decision, but whatever you choose will be the right answer. 

Edited November 25, 2023 by BaileyB

[Weezy1973]

To me the question would be then what. So he completes his PhD. Then what? Where does he live then? There’s a lot up in the air. But then again, if everything was great, and this really is the only issue, perhaps it’s worth doing the long distance thing temporarily?

[glows]

1 hour ago, Alpacalia said:

The program is overseas in Europe.

He has wanted to study in Europe and this Ph.D. program in particular has a strong focus on his research interests and more funding for the field of study (Political Science). He was offered a fully funded scholarship and the opportunity gains a global perspective on his research topic (which I don't really want to disclose because it's sensitive and very specific). I know when he graduates he wants to use his expertise to pursue career in academia or international organizations, and this program would give him an edge in those fields.

I also know he really wants this opportunity and I don't want him to miss out on it. There are so many benefits for him personally and professionally, and I know how hard he has worked to get to this point. We have been together for almost two years. I am only hurt and upset because I will miss him so much and I am afraid of what the distance might do to us. 

How we will make our relationship work with the time difference and his busy schedule as a PHd student. 

He offered for me to come with and I have worked hard to establish myself in my own educational pursuits and I am not sure if I am ready to give that up to follow him overseas. I want to support him and his dreams, I have mine too.

The other factor is that my father is still recovering from his stroke and I need to be available right now for whatever comes next. He is getting stronger everyday and recently had movement in his fingers (his right arm and hand are still paralyzed) but he is still wheelchair bound and has difficulty speaking and his personality is very different from what it was and I'm still adjusting to the fact that my father is a different person now.

So I am just reeling from a bit of conflicting emotions about his acceptance to this program. The times that I have been upset towards him wasn't fair to him, especially since he expressed that he was grateful for the opportunity and sad about leaving me behind. I tried to explain that this is just a difficult situation and I am still trying to process everything. He says he will come visit as much as he can, and I can him, but I am also trying to be realistic in that these are very different circumstances given our stage in life and is busy Ph.D. program.

We won't have the same freedom and flexibility of a short study abroad program. I thought initially, because I decided to pursue a degree of my own later in life, and him a bit later too that we were kind of on the same trajecotry. I didn't fully think this through and thought that he was thinking about that too.

A different continent with significant travel time is different from one or two states over. I doubt he has any clue whether he would want to live in this city in Europe past his PhD at this point, too early to tell. Does he have family in this area? Has he ever been to this country or city before in travels? Does he know? Am I wrong? 

My heart aches for both of you but he did make his decision so I’m fairly sure he’s had much longer time processing this than you. I wouldnt continue dating unless you potentially see yourself moving to Europe. If you want to remain in the US and it’s a hard no ever moving to Europe as long as your parents are in the US then no I would not continue dating this man. 

If he comes back to the US and shows an interest in building a life in the US permanently then consider dating again. 

[Ami1uwant]

55 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

The program is overseas in Europe.

He has wanted to study in Europe and this Ph.D. program in particular has a strong focus on his research interests and more funding for the field of study (Political Science). He was offered a fully funded scholarship and the opportunity gains a global perspective on his research topic (which I don't really want to disclose because it's sensitive and very specific). I know when he graduates he wants to use his expertise to pursue career in academia or international organizations, and this program would give him an edge in those fields.

I also know he really wants this opportunity and I don't want him to miss out on it. There are so many benefits for him personally and professionally, and I know how hard he has worked to get to this point. We have been together for almost two years. I am only hurt and upset because I will miss him so much and I am afraid of what the distance might do to us. 

How we will make our relationship work with the time difference and his busy schedule as a PHd student. 

He offered for me to come with and I have worked hard to establish myself in my own educational pursuits and I am not sure if I am ready to give that up to follow him overseas. I want to support him and his dreams, I have mine too.

The other factor is that my father is still recovering from his stroke and I need to be available right now for whatever comes next. He is getting stronger everyday and recently had movement in his fingers (his right arm and hand are still paralyzed) but he is still wheelchair bound and has difficulty speaking and his personality is very different from what it was and I'm still adjusting to the fact that my father is a different person now.

So I am just reeling from a bit of conflicting emotions about his acceptance to this program. The times that I have been upset towards him wasn't fair to him, especially since he expressed that he was grateful for the opportunity and sad about leaving me behind. I tried to explain that this is just a difficult situation and I am still trying to process everything. He says he will come visit as much as he can, and I can him, but I am also trying to be realistic in that these are very different circumstances given our stage in life and is busy Ph.D. program.

We won't have the same freedom and flexibility of a short study abroad program. I thought initially, because I decided to pursue a degree of my own later in life, and him a bit later too that we were kind of on the same trajecotry. I didn't fully think this through and thought that he was thinking about that too.

That’s part of life….I’m not being cold.  This affects many aspect of life and timing.

many have a difficult time being far away from their comfort zone of frirnds and family.  Many studies have shown how most people end up settling down within 100 miles of their home Toews.

 

I’ve had opportunities for relationships I did ot pursue because of the difference in timing.  I recall in college I met someone 5 yrs older than me.  We danced around a relationship for a bit but she had lived elsewhere, bern married, got divorced and returned home while I was looking at moving out of town for other opportunities. She was one of those what ifs I occasionally think about of how life might have been different for me.

 

this also happened with my ex gf in part of why we ended it.  I was kind of stuck in my career and needed to change things to advance. She did not want a long distance relationship.

 

I don’t know what your home toen is…but even if you were to be together…what do you expect post phD work will be located?  This probsbly also means not near home.  In international stuff he’s looking at dc, nyc, or LA/SF if he works for a company/ govt in this area.  In fed govt it’s state department or USAID or working in foreign service.  
 

my brother and his now wife went to grad school together but in different fields. Some places they targeted the same university but in large metro areas they looked st large universities in the area split apart.  When it came post doc my brothers field was more targeted and limited in universities todo research work. His wife’s was in education which you can find all over so he was the driver in deciding where they would go post doc.  Neither of them wanted to return to our home ttown because local family/ friend life would be a big career distraction.

[Els]

Sorry to hear that.

It seems like we're talking about an intercontinental LDR for 5 years here. I'm no stranger to LDRs (H and I lived in different continents for 2 years before we closed the distance) and honestly the thought of doing it for 5 years literally fills my heart with dread.

Unless one of you is incredibly wealthy, I don't see how a PhD student is going to be able to afford a trans-Atlantic flight once every few weeks, with the current flight prices. I would be impressed if he could do it once every few months.

The honest answer is that if my partner made the unilateral decision to do this, it would probably lead to the demise of our relationship. The reason why H and I coped with the 2 years apart is because the move was set in stone long before we even met each other.  After we closed the distance and progressed into a committed LTR, we wouldn't unilaterally decide to move across the globe without first getting the other person's input on whether they'd be willing to come along.

If he has his heart set on this, sadly it may indeed be best to call it quits. Intercontinental LDRs are incredibly, insanely, ridiculously tough and I wouldn't wish them on my worst enemy. I cannot imagine doing it for 5 years.

Edited November 25, 2023 by Els

[Alpacalia]

8 hours ago, glows said:

A different continent with significant travel time is different from one or two states over. I doubt he has any clue whether he would want to live in this city in Europe past his PhD at this point, too early to tell. Does he have family in this area? Has he ever been to this country or city before in travels? Does he know? Am I wrong? 

My heart aches for both of you but he did make his decision so I’m fairly sure he’s had much longer time processing this than you. I wouldnt continue dating unless you potentially see yourself moving to Europe. If you want to remain in the US and it’s a hard no ever moving to Europe as long as your parents are in the US then no I would not continue dating this man. 

If he comes back to the US and shows an interest in building a life in the US permanently then consider dating again. 

Indeed. And, thank you.

No family that I am aware of overseas. His parents live here (California).

He traveled to Europe years ago and absolutely loved it there. I do think that he for whatever reason always preferred being there over living here in the US. Then again, I know a big part of it centers around the program itself and that is where he wants to do his PhD work - he thinks it will give him an invaluable experience for what he wants to do. I understand this is a huge opportunity so I do get it from that standpoint. But at the same time, I logically am thinking about the long term outcome.

4 hours ago, Els said:

Sorry to hear that.

It seems like we're talking about an intercontinental LDR for 5 years here. I'm no stranger to LDRs (H and I lived in different continents for 2 years before we closed the distance) and honestly the thought of doing it for 5 years literally fills my heart with dread.

Unless one of you is incredibly wealthy, I don't see how a PhD student is going to be able to afford a trans-Atlantic flight once every few weeks, with the current flight prices. I would be impressed if he could do it once every few months.

The honest answer is that if my partner made the unilateral decision to do this, it would probably lead to the demise of our relationship. The reason why H and I coped with the 2 years apart is because the move was set in stone long before we even met each other.  After we closed the distance and progressed into a committed LTR, we wouldn't unilaterally decide to move across the globe without first getting the other person's input on whether they'd be willing to come along.

If he has his heart set on this, sadly it may indeed be best to call it quits. Intercontinental LDRs are incredibly, insanely, ridiculously tough and I wouldn't wish them on my worst enemy. I cannot imagine doing it for 5 years.

Thanks Els.

Yeah, I was just thinking that as much as I miss the East Coast and want to eventually move back, I would have stayed put for us.

But, I just can't see myself waiting idly 5 years for his return. Does that make me weak? Maybe. That’s why I am thinking this all out because I mean, we haven’t been together THAT long so not sure it makes sense to invest in this relationship given what we're now up against. On the other hand, I'm worried that if I don't, I won't be able to find someone better. I guess I just need to think about it some more.

And to the other point (I think Weezy mentioned), what happens after Phd, then what? 

I think he was trying to be cute and reassure me that we would see each other every few weeks, we both know that's just not feasible. I don't think it's fair for either of us to sacrifice so much for the other. He said that's not what he was asking of me (to move), but what else is in there? As much as we both don't want to admit it, there are unspoken expectations when something like this is presented.

He has been visibly upset and losing sleep over this. This is something we’ve discussed for a bit now trying to come up with possible solutions and what not.

I was all set with my future until I met him. Yet, I met him, we fell in love and my plans changed. I am seeing things as hard as I can and have still come to the soul crushing realization that forward is the only direction and time is the only combatant against a heavy heart.

Edited November 26, 2023 by Alpacalia

[Wiseman2]

9 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

.He has wanted to study in Europe and this Ph.D. program in particular . He was offered a fully funded scholarship  

I know how hard he has worked to get to this point.  I am just reeling from a bit of conflicting emotions about his acceptance to this program. 

Hopefully you'll be able to work something out and come to terms with things like visiting him and staying in touch.

It sounds like an opportunity of a lifetime and it's good you're happy for him. It seems you've known for a while this was his dream. When does he plan on moving there? 

[Alpacalia]

9 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Hopefully you'll be able to work something out and come to terms with things like visiting him and staying in touch.

It sounds like an opportunity of a lifetime and it's good you're happy for him. It seems you've known for a while this was his dream. When does he plan on moving there? 

It is and I am genuinely happy for him. I know he's going to do amazing things and really kick tail in this program.

The program starts September 2024. He would leave in the summer next year most likely.

Which kinda works out with my wait for acceptance into my radiology training program. It was lottery based this past year and I didn't win. It's been switched to merit based so I'll have more edge and starts next fall, 80-hour-per-week class load (thinking about Healthcare Administration alternatively, with fewer hours next fall).

With the Radiology program, I could travel to see him December 2024. If I do healthcare admin I would have much more flexibility.

[Wiseman2]

27 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

It is and I am genuinely happy for him.The program starts September 2024. He would leave in the summer next year most likely.

Sound like you two have some time to figure things out. All you can do is be happy and supportive that he's accomplishing his goals. 

[Ami1uwant]

14 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

Indeed. And, thank you.

No family that I am aware of overseas. His parents live here (California).

He traveled to Europe years ago and absolutely loved it there. I do think that he for whatever reason always preferred being there over living here in the US. Then again, I know a big part of it centers around the program itself and that is where he wants to do his PhD work - he thinks it will give him an invaluable experience for what he wants to do. I understand this is a huge opportunity so I do get it from that standpoint. But at the same time, I logically am thinking about the long term outcome.

Thanks Els.

Yeah, I was just thinking that as much as I miss the East Coast and want to eventually move back, I would have stayed put for us.

But, I just can't see myself waiting idly 5 years for his return. Does that make me weak? Maybe. That’s why I am thinking this all out because I mean, we haven’t been together THAT long so not sure it makes sense to invest in this relationship given what we're now up against. On the other hand, I'm worried that if I don't, I won't be able to find someone better. I guess I just need to think about it some more.

And to the other point (I think Weezy mentioned), what happens after Phd, then what? 

I think he was trying to be cute and reassure me that we would see each other every few weeks, we both know that's just not feasible. I don't think it's fair for either of us to sacrifice so much for the other. He said that's not what he was asking of me (to move), but what else is in there? As much as we both don't want to admit it, there are unspoken expectations when something like this is presented.

He has been visibly upset and losing sleep over this. This is something we’ve discussed for a bit now trying to come up with possible solutions and what not.

I was all set with my future until I met him. Yet, I met him, we fell in love and my plans changed. I am seeing things as hard as I can and have still come to the soul crushing realization that forward is the only direction and time is the only combatant against a heavy heart.

 

curious……what does “ I was all set with my future until I met him”  actually mean?   What changed?

[Weezy1973]

And just a general commentary on the unfairness of love - so often the qualities that attract us to a partner are the same qualities that make a long term relationship untenable. You were probably so attracted to his drive and ambition and passion for his field. And it’s those very things that are making things difficult. You can’t rightfully ask him not to do it - that would be like asking him not to be him. Unfair.

[BaileyB]

Agree with the above - he needs to be him and you need to be you. 

You can do the long distance thing - I think it will reveal itself early on whether a long distance relationship when both partners are living on different continents is going to work or not.

Otherwise, you need to decide where your heart is - if it’s with him, you will do what is required to be with him. Europe could be amazing, but not if you are pining for your family or it does not allow for you to follow your own dreams.

Its a touch situation with no easy solutions…

[mark clemson]

Clearly this is what he really wants to do. Compatibility isn't only about personality and lifestyle, sometimes it's about these major decisions/personal situations as well. IF you can't find a way to make this work for you (emotionally as well as practically) then you are probably incompatible. That isn't at all a ding on either of you, as it sounds like you were great together, but if the new situation isn't tenable for you, well - it's not tenable, unfortunately.

Edited November 26, 2023 by mark clemson

[Gaeta]

It's a tough situation and there is too much uncertainties, there is a possibility he will not want to come back to the US. 

In these matters usually one has to make a sacrifice in the name of the relationship and agree to delay their career to advance their partner's career. Your sacrifice would be to delay your program, his sacrifice would be to pick a US University instead of a European one. 

I don't think 5 years is viable. Loneliness will hit soon as well as resentment and bitterness. You are both young with busy life style, it will be just a matter of time before one of you comes across someone that could fill that void. 

I would break it now instead of investing another 6 months. 

I am sorry you have to go through this.

[Alpacalia]

6 hours ago, Ami1uwant said:

 

curious……what does “ I was all set with my future until I met him”  actually mean?   What changed?

I moved to California a few years ago to help caregive my mother. It was only supposed to be temporary (I had plans to move back East, New Jersey, where I am from). My plans were to move back. Realistically, I could do the same school program back East, but I kinda put that off and chose to finish out here after I met him.

So, when I say "I was all set with my future" it means that I had everything planned out and set in motion to move back to New Jersey, but meeting him changed those plans and made me want to stay in California longer. Regardless, I am here for another year. I committed to that because I need to see what happens with my father that lives in Arizona and recently suffered a stroke. It's easier for me to be here so I can fly back and forth as needed while he recovers. Family is super important to me, and my father and I have a very close and special relationship and I want to be here for him during this time.

Big thanks for the extra comments, ya'll!

I know I need to think about this long and hard before making any decisions, but it's just something that's been on my mind and I wanted to get some opinions from others. I appreciate the honesty and different perspectives.

Ultimately, I know I need to make a decision based on what will make me the happiest in the long run. I don't think it would be fair for either of us to put our lives on hold for each other, but it's also hard to let go of something that makes you happy. It's definitely a difficult situation. He wants to continue to explore the relationship and see where it goes, but I know I can't stay in limbo forever.

Thanks again for all the input!

[Foxhall]

If its meant  to be you can probably work through this difficulty,

the two of you probably will have plenty of other options or temptations along the way- thats where it may be difficult,

I spoke with my own love of my life recently, even though well we have been in relationships with other people,

despite that ocean between us interestingly we came to the conclusion that ultimately we probably should be together-

but yes we cannot remain oceans apart indefinitely- time is moving.

 

 

 

 

[Alpacalia]

55 minutes ago, Foxhall said:

If its meant  to be you can probably work through this difficulty,

the two of you probably will have plenty of other options or temptations along the way- thats where it may be difficult,

I spoke with my own love of my life recently, even though well we have been in relationships with other people,

despite that ocean between us interestingly we came to the conclusion that ultimately we probably should be together-

but yes we cannot remain oceans apart indefinitely- time is moving.

 

 

 

 

Fox, is this the same woman you posted about before?

[Foxhall]

Yes, that thread I had just over a year ago,

 

what you and others told me was very accurate actually- I guess you have more experience of love and relationships,

 

Anyway I wasnt ready to leave the other relationship at the time. but am clearer now who the right one is

 whatever happens from here!

[ShyViolet]

Five years is a LONG time to carry on a long distance relationship and to put your life on hold.  My two cents... you should consider the relationship ending when he leaves.  With the possibility that you two could leave the door open to circle back to each other five years from now, if you are each in a place in your lives to do so.  Stay in light touch but don't torture yourself with a long distance relationship for that excessive and unreasonable amount of time.  I'm really surprised that he would say you will visit each other, between Europe and the US, every few weeks.  We all know that's not realistic.