Crossroads. Is This the End?

[Alpacalia]

42 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

But dreams could be delayed to accomodate the relationship. 

But does that mean sacrificing my own interest? Or his for that matter?

How can you ever be truly happy knowing you sacrificed your dreams for a guy or girl?

Late at night, when those "what ifs" sneak into your thoughts, and during arguments when you fear losing that one thing that makes you, you. I tend to see it as supporting and uplifting each other, not holding one another back.

[Gaeta]

3 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

But does that mean sacrificing my own interest? Or his for that matter?

Delaying is not sacrificing. 

I understand you do not want to delay your program and he doesn't want to delay his phD but for the sake or argument, if another couple really wanted to save the relationship those 2 dreams could be optained on a different timeline. 

In your case I think it's better to breakup. He wants to do a phD in politics right? I doubt he'll want to come back to the US when he's done. He'll be able to aim at any position in the world, he will be interested in those big international organizations and the shy will be the limit for him. 

[giotto]

If neither of you want to wait or make sacrifices for the relationship, then the relationship is not important enough. The individual is more important than the sum.

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, Alpacalia said:

I tend to see it as supporting and uplifting each other, not holding one another back.

Yes exactly. Love is when you want someone to be happy. It sounds like you genuinely want your partner to be happy - even if that means the relationship end. That’s pretty much the epitome of love. 
 

And while I agree that compromises are vital to a healthy relationship, I also recognize there are some things that can’t be sacrificed. For him, if his career / field are a true passion, then he needs to do this, and yes you need to support him. If for you your field, career, family and friends are so high on your list of priorities then you can’t move to Europe. It is what it is. You can both love each other deeply, and the relationship still not work. 

[Alpacalia]

41 minutes ago, giotto said:

If neither of you want to wait or make sacrifices for the relationship, then the relationship is not important enough. The individual is more important than the sum.

We have made sacrifices for each other during the course of our relationship, ones that I haven't mentioned, this just happens to be the one that I'm struggling with in the present moment.

It's difficult for me to imagine spending 5 years apart, but I also recognize that he comes from a different background and sees the value of this degree differently. We are not in our twenties anymore so delaying can significantly impact other plans in life. I am trying to reconcile all these factors and emotions, but it's quite overwhelming.

I feel sad and divided each time I dwell on the decision. For example, I could be doing well on my own for a while but then I see something that makes me think of him and that it's better if that something will be part of my life for the next five years.

I'm overlooking anything good about having a base eventually on the east coast and wanting to have a life back East. I am very connected to people back East because that's where I grew up.  He frames it as me being stuck in my ways, which is fair enough, but I can also see how it hurts him the way I'm stuck.  I am relatively open-minded, it's just this particular decision is difficult for me to separate identity from because it has so many implications.

He values the Ph.D and returning to California. He has an ideal vision of things, but I see them in a different way, although I don't articulate this as successfully as him. It can be difficult to cohesively explain what weights one decision over another at times.  I am stuck in the moment and the present, while he is more intent on the future and is futuristically-minded. 

I just don't find the statement, "the relationship isn't important enough" to be helpful, because we've made sacrifices for each other, and to say that the relationship isn't important isn't true. It could be that each person that someone will always be sacrifice, and you have to weigh the risk vs. gain. In this case I'm wondering if it would be a risk /gain issue worth separating the whole relationship for.

It feels like a trade-off between valid things, my friendships and extended family back east and his degree and returning to California, for example. So I am struggling with the "relationship not being important enough" bit. Even if we broke up I wouldn't make it about the relationship not being valuable or having that mean hostility or disdain for the individual.

So, trying to come up with a hard-and fast-rule based on feelings of affection seems a bit too extreme, or at least simplistic, as a way of evaluating what we have. If a pursuit is damaging it doesn't mean it isn't valuable in some other way, even if it's still a fair reflection of some basic compatibility.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Alpacalia

[giotto]

7 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

I just don't find the statement, "the relationship isn't important enough" to be helpful, because we've made sacrifices for each other, and to say that the relationship isn't important isn't true.

I'm not saying it's not important... only that it's not important enough. And this is the crux of the matter, IMO. If it were, you would find a way to be together. I hope I'm not sounding too harsh. This is simply my view.

[Gaeta]

Do you have siblings to help with your parents?

Can your program be taken from a distance the first year?

Does your program come with long summer breaks, long holidays, spring breaks?

I don't think a phD requires to be sitting in classes every day, there is a lot of research/study done on your own, would that allow him to study from the US on occasion?

[NuevoYorko]

Have the two of you sat down and really discussed possibilities regarding staying together?  Nuts and bolts of how it would be accomplished?  It sounds like both of you are generally prepared to let it go.

[Alpacalia]

36 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

Have the two of you sat down and really discussed possibilities regarding staying together?  Nuts and bolts of how it would be accomplished?  It sounds like both of you are generally prepared to let it go.

Yes. Quite a lot in fact. 

[Alpacalia]

1 hour ago, Gaeta said:

Do you have siblings to help with your parents?

Can your program be taken from a distance the first year?

Does your program come with long summer breaks, long holidays, spring breaks?

I don't think a phD requires to be sitting in classes every day, there is a lot of research/study done on your own, would that allow him to study from the US on occasion?

Gaeta, I do. My brother helps with my mother and my sister helps with both. My mother can fend for herself to a degree but with my Dad right now it is still touch and go. Just last night when we video chatted he was experiencing severe stomach pain and there was a possibility he had to go back to the hospital (he's in a skilled nursing intensive rehab facility right now). So, I have flown out twice since his stroke (he's in Arizona) and will be going back again near Christmas.

We do not know what's going to happen in terms of his mobility.

No, the program is an 80 hour a week onsite full-time program in lecture and labs and with heavy clinical rotation. I could do it in Europe but I do not know the language proficiency level, especially being that I will be interacting with patients. The program here would start next Fall, no breaks until mid-December. The spring semester following would have a Spring break in between.

To your last point (which is a great point and one that I hadn't considered). That's def a possibility!

Edited November 28, 2023 by Alpacalia

[NuevoYorko]

I don't believe that "love conquers all" but I do believe that a lot can be done to keep a relationship together if both people really want it.  But you'd need a lot of motivation.

Are you thinking you and this man might be marriage bound?  I think that would be the clincher.  If you both are there.  

If you are in love but really taking it as it rolls without too much future planning,  this might indeed have rolled to a stopping place.  No one is in the wrong or showing lack of love. 

[Weezy1973]

And to add to @NuevoYorko’s point, this is especially important if you’re thinking of starting a family. If.he’s someone you’d like to have kids with, you think he’d make a great husband and co-parent, then indeed it might be tough to find someone else as compatible. But really I think also important to ask him steps after his PhD. What would be the next move. Could you do 5 years in Europe and then back to New Jersey to start your family?

[introverted1]

5 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

I could do it in Europe but I do not know the language proficiency level, especially being that I will be interacting with patients.

You have 6+ months in which to immerse yourself in an intensive language course, if this is the only thing holding you back. 

 

[Alpacalia]

3 hours ago, introverted1 said:

You have 6+ months in which to immerse yourself in an intensive language course, if this is the only thing holding you back. 

 

No, I do not have 6 months.

I have classes already booked for Spring 24 to further my education that is almost a full-time class load and I work. I could do it in the summer though, albeit, summer semester is 2 months and not sure how proficient I will become in a new language in two months, but it would be a start.

Please also recall that my father JUST HAD a major stroke, it is still very touch and go with him. Of course, he could make a decent recovery between now and then, but right now he is still a fall risk, wheelchair bound, paralyzed on one side and just a few weeks ago rushed to the ER again which I was present for. As much as I love my boyfriend, I would feel terrible leaving the country if my father is still in such a tenuous state. It is hard enough leaving the state for a few days. But I am hopeful that my father will improve and be more stable by then but I cannot predict the future.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Alpacalia

[Alpacalia]

You know, I am really getting mad thinking about this now.

Why should I be the one to uproot my entire life just to make him happy? This is his dream, that I support, but I feel like I'm getting the short end of the stick.

What about my dreams and aspirations? Am I just supposed to put them on hold for the next five years? I'm not mad at him but asking me to uproot my life just because it's what he wants is unfair. Yes, he's my partner, but what about my needs and wants? It's not just about him. I feel like I'm being asked to sacrifice everything for his dream, without any guarantee that it will all work out.

Asking me to come with him isn't a solution; it's just adding more pressure on me to make a decision that I'm not ready to make.

[Gaeta]

2 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

Asking me to come with him isn't a solution; it's just adding more pressure on me to make a decision that I'm not ready to make

Where is his family?

[Acacia98]

On 11/28/2023 at 3:09 AM, Alpacalia said:

I appreciate the feedback. I really do. 

I am not sure if anyone realizes but if he had stayed how difficult and likely impossible it would be. I would have felt guilty and even though I suggested California plan...feel like I was holding him back for five years.

Thing is, I know this is something he's always wanted. Before he met me. When this first came about a while ago, he said he wouldn't go if it meant that are relationship would come to an end and at the time I said I didn't know. He knew that at the time that it was going to be extremely hard on our relationship and life together and he said he'd wait till it felt right to be able to do it. We talked about everything at this time.

So that he could not miss this opportunity of something that's always been so important to him. I know that I played a role in him wanting this. He says he had always wanted this but he would chose our life together.

 

As difficult and painful it is, I feel you're doing the right thing under difficult circumstances. I know too many people who have married (and sometimes even had kids) before one of them went on to pursue further studies or career goals in another country. That has been disastrous for their marriages/families. So I'm all for achieving goals of that particular type before marriage and kids. I also know that sacrifices of the kind your boyfriend would have to make in order to stay would likely breed resentment. So for that kind of sacrifice to work, he'd have to make it without pressure from you. I definitely would encourage you to stay in the US and be there for your dad at this difficult time. IMO there's no room for compromise there. 

Maybe as time goes by you will both figure out another solution that will work. 

[Acacia98]

1 hour ago, Alpacalia said:

You know, I am really getting mad thinking about this now.

Why should I be the one to uproot my entire life just to make him happy? This is his dream, that I support, but I feel like I'm getting the short end of the stick.

What about my dreams and aspirations? Am I just supposed to put them on hold for the next five years? I'm not mad at him but asking me to uproot my life just because it's what he wants is unfair. Yes, he's my partner, but what about my needs and wants? It's not just about him. I feel like I'm being asked to sacrifice everything for his dream, without any guarantee that it will all work out.

While we're on the subject, I know women who have put their careers on hold to follow their husbands abroad for PhD studies. It's often been a disempowering, disorienting and lonely experience for them. A career-oriented person should not make that choice. The best-case scenario would be to try to achieve your own career goals in the new country by your partner's side if that was possible. But sacrificing your career: No. And certainly not living in a situation where your finances and visa and everything are completely dependent on your partner.

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Alpacalia said:

Asking me to come with him isn't a solution; it's just adding more pressure on me to make a decision that I'm not ready to make.

Sorry this is happening. Agree it's not a solution to go with him or wait around.

You have a lot of stuff going on with family, school, etc.

I disagree that love conquers all or that sacrifices to excess is a good thing. Especially when such sacrifices create a no-win situation for both people. If you go, you lose, if he stays he loses. 

You still have time to hang out together and see what happens. Unfortunately you knew this was his dream and he would eventually follow it. 

Not all relationships end badly or because of lack of love or problems. In this case, you're just heading in two separate paths. That's ok. It's better than being resentful and unhappy. 

[Alpacalia]

1 hour ago, Gaeta said:

Where is his family?

California.

8 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry this is happening. Agree it's not a solution to go with him or wait around.

You have a lot of stuff going on with family, school, etc.

I disagree that love conquers all or that sacrifices to excess is a good thing. Especially when such sacrifices create a no-win situation for both people. If you go, you lose, if he stays he loses. 

You still have time to hang out together and see what happens. Unfortunately you knew this was his dream and he would eventually follow it. 

Not all relationships end badly or because of lack of love or problems. In this case, you're just heading in two separate paths. That's ok. It's better than being resentful and unhappy. 

Those are my feelings too. I don't feel that love conquers all.

I do have a lot going on with my family and school. I can't in good faith leave my father at such a crucial time in his life. I know some people say you're supposed to put your partner first before your family, but my father has always been there for me and I can't just abandon him when he needs me the most. This is a big factor for me and I can't pretend otherwise.

 

[Alvi]

2 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

You know, I am really getting mad thinking about this now.

Why should I be the one to uproot my entire life just to make him happy? This is his dream, that I support, but I feel like I'm getting the short end of the stick.

What about my dreams and aspirations? Am I just supposed to put them on hold for the next five years? I'm not mad at him but asking me to uproot my life just because it's what he wants is unfair. Yes, he's my partner, but what about my needs and wants? It's not just about him. I feel like I'm being asked to sacrifice everything for his dream, without any guarantee that it will all work out.

Asking me to come with him isn't a solution; it's just adding more pressure on me to make a decision that I'm not ready to make.

You know what? You are right. This thread and what you are saying  brought tears to my eyes. I think you have to do what is right for you. Even if it means ending thigs. Anyway, I know this very difficult for you so I offer you virtual hugs. Not that it helps much but still.

Have you two actually been married, perhaps I would tell you to go with him. But he is just a boyfriend. And it is not very wise to uproot your whole life for just a boyfriend.

1 hour ago, Acacia98 said:

While we're on the subject, I know women who have put their careers on hold to follow their husbands abroad for PhD studies. It's often been a disempowering, disorienting and lonely experience for them. A career-oriented person should not make that choice. The best-case scenario would be to try to achieve your own career goals in the new country by your partner's side if that was possible. But sacrificing your career: No. And certainly not living in a situation where your finances and visa and everything are completely dependent on your partner.

And these women often end up with almost nothing  considering how high divorce rate is. In case of divorce, a wife may end up with no money, no career or job and would have to start all over again. Even with some settlements and child support from a guy, it still may not be enough.

[glows]

2 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

You know, I am really getting mad thinking about this now.

Why should I be the one to uproot my entire life just to make him happy? This is his dream, that I support, but I feel like I'm getting the short end of the stick.

What about my dreams and aspirations? Am I just supposed to put them on hold for the next five years? I'm not mad at him but asking me to uproot my life just because it's what he wants is unfair. Yes, he's my partner, but what about my needs and wants? It's not just about him. I feel like I'm being asked to sacrifice everything for his dream, without any guarantee that it will all work out.

Asking me to come with him isn't a solution; it's just adding more pressure on me to make a decision that I'm not ready to make.

Is it possible he doesn’t know the extent to which you worry or feel about your father’s health? Why would he suggest or invite you to go with him or even expect you both to remain in a relationship with his decision to go to Europe? It sounds like he’s either very misguided/misinformed about you and what ties you to the US with school and family OR he’s got selective hearing, just wilfully ignoring these issues. 

Some people don’t see 5 years as too big of hurdle either and passes in the blink of an eye. A lot more see it as a very very long time. This is all very relative. 

Im trying to understand what his expectations are. 

[Alpacalia]

17 minutes ago, glows said:

Is it possible he doesn’t know the extent to which you worry or feel about your father’s health? Why would he suggest or invite you to go with him or even expect you both to remain in a relationship with his decision to go to Europe? It sounds like he’s either very misguided/misinformed about you and what ties you to the US with school and family OR he’s got selective hearing, just wilfully ignoring these issues. 

Some people don’t see 5 years as too big of hurdle either and passes in the blink of an eye. A lot more see it as a very very long time. This is all very relative. 

Im trying to understand what his expectations are. 

I'm not sure Glows. 

This just couldn't have come at a worse time. I am still struggling with the my father being a different person now. My father is the one person I trust more than anyone on this planet and the stroke changed him 100%. I lost him even though he's here. I hate seeing him so afraid and I hate feeling like I can't protect him or take it away. He's had stomach pain for a couple days and seeing him writhe in pain was just more than I could take.

Maybe I am just not as resilient as I thought I was but seeing my dad like that has me all messed up. It makes me feel so powerless and scared and I am frustrated that one minute he seems fine and the next is 6/10 pain and no one can say why. I am not easy to scare but seeing my dad go through this has me really on edge. I know I am ranting and I know everyone is scared right now but I just needed to get it out.

I feel like a horrible daughter for not being able to shake my own feeling scared to try and take care of my dad. My boyfriend though, he's been so supportive in the sense that I have not been able to devote much time to him. He has been picking up the slack, even more than usual. He basically does everything now.

I see it in his eyes that he is worried that I am not okay and that makes me feel even more guilty and stressed. I want to lean on him but I am scared to because I know he's just as stressed as I am right now. I don't want to burden him and I don't want to make things harder on him. I don't feel like I can be a good girlfriend when I am not in a good place.

[Alpacalia]

37 minutes ago, Alvi said:

Anyway, I know this very difficult for you so I offer you virtual hugs. Not that it helps much but still.

Thank you Alvi. ♥️

[giotto]

I left my country and my family to go and live with my (future) wife, so this is very familiar to me. Would I do it again? No.

Nobody is prepared to compromise here, so I guess the relationship is doomed.