Crossroads. Is This the End?

[Alpacalia]

4 minutes ago, ShyViolet said:

Five years is a LONG time to carry on a long distance relationship and to put your life on hold.  My two cents... you should consider the relationship ending when he leaves.  With the possibility that you two could leave the door open to circle back to each other five years from now, if you are each in a place in your lives to do so.  Stay in light touch but don't torture yourself with a long distance relationship for that excessive and unreasonable amount of time.  I'm really surprised that he would say you will visit each other, between Europe and the US, every few weeks.  We all know that's not realistic.  

Thanks ShyViolet. I agree, it is.

Truth be told, I am kinda of considering the relationship ending when he leaves.  I dread when that day comes. 

I think he was just trying to make me feel better in the moment when has said he would try to visit me every few weeks. I know how hard and expensive that can get, so I try not to take it too seriously. But it's still hard to hear because it brings up all sorts of mixed emotions about the future of our relationship. His eyes have been red and I can tell when I saw him earlier that he was very sad. I know he wants to make me feel better, but I also know that he's feeling just as sad about leaving.

The other day I slept most of the day. I was too depressed to get out of bed.

I think this is going to more of a mutual decision rather than just one of us choosing to end things. Whereas in the past, I have been the one to initiate breakups, this time I feel more of the pain and emptiness of it. I'm not sure if that makes sense. Hard to explain.

[Foxhall]

7 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

The other day I slept most of the day. I was too depressed to get out of bed.

I am sorry to hear that- you are such a nice person- you do not deserve those feelings,

 

wishing you good luck with it.

[Will am I]

9 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

Truth be told, I am kinda of considering the relationship ending when he leaves.  I dread when that day comes. 

I've read through the topic and I believe you might only have two options. Reclaim your freedom or plunge in the deep and come to Europe.

Waiting for five years is not something I would recommend to anyone. Life doesn't come with a "hibernate" option in the start menu.

[giotto]

The right compromise would be for your boyfriend to find an alternative in California. But he won't do that and you don't want to stop him. This simply means that his studies are more important than your relationship and you, at the end of the day. Quite bleak, if you ask me.  

[Alpacalia]

2 hours ago, Will am I said:

I've read through the topic and I believe you might only have two options. Reclaim your freedom or plunge in the deep and come to Europe.

Waiting for five years is not something I would recommend to anyone. Life doesn't come with a "hibernate" option in the start menu.

I'd have a new friend at least if I moved to Europe. 😊

2 hours ago, giotto said:

The right compromise would be for your boyfriend to find an alternative in California. But he won't do that and you don't want to stop him. This simply means that his studies are more important than your relationship and you, at the end of the day. Quite bleak, if you ask me.  

Thanks gio.

No, I don't want to stop him. He asked me before he made the decision about the school what to do and I told him to follow his dreams and do what's best for his future. He asked me to come with him but I can't because I have a job and responsibilities in my own life.

Sure, at the end of the day I can say to myself, he didn't love me enough to choose me over his studies. But the truth is, it's not that he doesn't love me, it's just that he is trying to build a better future for himself.

I can't fault him for that.

He wanted to study in Europe long before he met me, and it's something he's always wanted to do. I didn't give him an ultimatum or force him to choose between us, he made the decision on his own. And who knows, maybe in the long run, his education and future success will benefit both of us as a couple if we come back to each other in the future.

But for now, I am content with him pursuing his dreams and supporting him from a distance. What that means is our relationship will have to take a backseat for now, and live life separately while he's studying in Europe. Does a part of me feel the relationship is over? Honestly, yes.

[giotto]

29 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

Sure, at the end of the day I can say to myself, he didn't love me enough to choose me over his studies. But the truth is, it's not that he doesn't love me, it's just that he is trying to build a better future for himself.

 

Yeah, he doesn't love you enough to make a big compromise. To me, love is 100% and what comes first, in all my things. But we all different.

[Alpacalia]

28 minutes ago, giotto said:

Yeah, he doesn't love you enough to make a big compromise. To me, love is 100% and what comes first, in all my things. But we all different.

Yes, we're all different.

I am not sure I agree that love means 100% compromise when the thing compromised for would greatly affect the person's life in the future. He could have stayed here and did his 5-year degree but then again, he was offered a full scholarship overseas whereas here he would have had to also take out a student loans here. He looked into programs closer to home.

Initially he wanted to wait until I graduated almost two years from now to begin applying for his PhD (in general) but I encouraged him to start applying so that he could do his PhD in a location that would potentially benefit us both, but I also know how much it meant to him to pursue a PhD wherever he wanted.

Now for me, 5 years from now it could be 10 years, or never ending if he gets a job abroad or etc. He wanted to get married before prior to this. I said not yet I wanted to finish my degree first. He wasn't initially happy and he said we could wait. Then came the latter.

[giotto]

35 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

Then came the latter.

Do you think he knows or expects what's going to hit him?

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

He wanted to study in Europe long before he met me, and it's something he's always wanted to do. Does a part of me feel the relationship is over? Honestly, yes.

This is important and excellent insight. He's wanted to do this and he has been given the opportunity of a lifetime. Getting into a specific PhD program isn't as simple as getting into college. 

It's a bittersweet situation. While you'll miss each other, if he held back (especially since you are talking about relocating to the East coast anyway), it would build resentment to try to force fit anything on either side. Agree it's just bad timing as far as your diverse life goals. 

[Gaeta]

1 hour ago, Alpacalia said:

He wanted to get married before prior to this. I said not yet I wanted to finish my degree first. 

What was the point of waiting after your degree to marry?

I graduated after l got married, not sure what difference it makes. Marriage is building a life together, and that means through study, work, ups & downs of becoming our best version.

May l ask how old you are? When l got married l put building a career for myself aside so my husband could build his. I went back to school in my 30s when it was his turn to support me through my career. 

I might be a hopeless romantic but your story reads like he's not picking you, you're not picking him, there is no 'lets meet in the middle compromise'. 

[Lotsgoingon]

Your conflicting emotions are totally appropriate--they show that you are really thinking and feeling into what the right next step is for you and for him and for both of you.

It's not clear to me that you told him No, a hard no!  Sounds to me like you told him you didn't want him to go overseas, but that you would understand why he would want to do so for his field and career. 

There are times when the partner in your position needs to be 100 percent rock solid clear and self-focused. If you are hurting as much as you seem to be, then that means you might have done better to tell him, NO, he can't go overseas and stay in the relationship. Sounds to me like you wanted HIM to make that decision--and that you worried perhaps (maybe not) that speaking up loudly and clearly was not what a "good" partner does. No, you have the right to say: I don't want you to do X. Very strongly and very clearly ... with no "but I'd understand" statement added on. There are married couples who have been together for years who would find it excruciating to have one partner a continent away. So of course, this would painfully tough for you guys.

Your job here is NOT to understand where he's coming from. Your job is to be totally clear about whether you can be happy or want to spend all the energy and time alone and stress based on him being away. And the "nice" answer or the kind answer is NOT yes, you will stay with him. No--nice has NOTHING to do with this. Five years is an eternity. That's way too much time in my mind to commit to in an intercontinental ldr. (If you decide you want to stay together, I'd say just try out a year of this and see how things feel.

If you're so close that both of you are now in agony, I wonder why you guys didn't just bluntly step up and make a joint decision, a decision both would have to pretty strongly agree with (even if one of you would be inconvenienced more than the other). Its not your job as a good partner to prioritize his career over your own desire to be with a partner. Lose that guilt! The guilt is completely inappropriate here. 

That he had this decision unilaterally as he did tells me that he might not treasure the relationship as much as his red eyes indicate he does. I know plenty of people (myself included) who took a new job in a new town really to get out of the relationship. People don't always acknowledge this (even to themselves), but that is often the case. 

 

[Ami1uwant]

9 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

I'd have a new friend at least if I moved to Europe. 😊

Thanks gio.

No, I don't want to stop him. He asked me before he made the decision about the school what to do and I told him to follow his dreams and do what's best for his future. He asked me to come with him but I can't because I have a job and responsibilities in my own life.

Sure, at the end of the day I can say to myself, he didn't love me enough to choose me over his studies. But the truth is, it's not that he doesn't love me, it's just that he is trying to build a better future for himself.

I can't fault him for that.

He wanted to study in Europe long before he met me, and it's something he's always wanted to do. I didn't give him an ultimatum or force him to choose between us, he made the decision on his own. And who knows, maybe in the long run, his education and future success will benefit both of us as a couple if we come back to each other in the future.

But for now, I am content with him pursuing his dreams and supporting him from a distance. What that means is our relationship will have to take a backseat for now, and live life separately while he's studying in Europe. Does a part of me feel the relationship is over? Honestly, yes.

His dream was something mentioned early on in the relationship?

 

you should never prevent things like this because of regrets that could surface later.

 

you both are young and have a full life ahead. 
 

But don’t ruin your life by holding out hope.

[Alpacalia]

I appreciate the feedback. I really do. 

I am not sure if anyone realizes but if he had stayed how difficult and likely impossible it would be. I would have felt guilty and even though I suggested California plan...feel like I was holding him back for five years.

Thing is, I know this is something he's always wanted. Before he met me. When this first came about a while ago, he said he wouldn't go if it meant that are relationship would come to an end and at the time I said I didn't know. He knew that at the time that it was going to be extremely hard on our relationship and life together and he said he'd wait till it felt right to be able to do it. We talked about everything at this time.

So that he could not miss this opportunity of something that's always been so important to him. I know that I played a role in him wanting this. He says he had always wanted this but he would chose our life together.

Maybe I didn't think all about what could possibly happen? I don't know.

@Gaeta

Why? how old do I look? 

I chose to delay marriage until after getting my degree because it was crucial for me to accomplish something independently before taking such a significant step. It was a personal goal I wanted to achieve for myself.

Part of me has never wanted to get married after my engagement ended. So, maybe I needed a bit of time to ease into the idea of ultimately marrying or ambition of something I wanted to do on my own, independent of him. I wanted to marry him because that's what I truly want and not because it may make him happy that I was giving into him. While I understand and share your perspective on marriage, I have solid reasons for choosing to delay it. Marriage feels like a significant milestone, and as I've been steadfast about achieving something independently, I was unsure how to reconcile those conflicting feelings about moving forward with it.

I think I needed to ease my way into it and revisit it after feeling my own sense of accomplishment especially after hearing so many people I know have cheated and thrown up their hands to quitting school or whatever and getting married early did not stop them from falling out of love or cheating. 

[FMW]

I'm sorry you're experiencing this, especially with everything else you have to deal with.

Since he isn't leaving immediately, I think you should give yourself a little time to process your feelings and emotions.  When you've had time to sit with it for a while you'll know what you need to do.  I'm not saying it will make it any easier, but it will give you the peace of knowing you've made the right choice.  

 

 

[Gaeta]

43 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

Why? how old do I look? 

No matter your number you look amazing!! It's a compliment l can't tell your age! :-)

l was asking to see if you had plenty of time to accomplish your goal. I married very young, at 21, so it was no big deal to me to put off my career for 10 years. If l was faced with the same decision today l would not uproot myself, l now have children, a property, a well established career, aging parents. 

[Lotsgoingon]

You're right: marriage is not the answer to relationship problems. It's almost impossible to resist that thought when you're with someone you really like (and when you really want to get married). Still, marriage does not solve a relationship problem. The couple has to work on their issues.

Wow, I'm getting a richer picture of your dilemma. You didn't want to hold him back from this dream. And you would have felt something wasn't right if you insisted that he stay. Totally makes sense. Totally!

On the other hand, you saying you wanted him to stay, saying it strongly, vehemently event is just you sharing what you feel. You wouldn't have been blocking him from going overseas. It's up to him to then decide what to do. I'm sensing you have more room to ask for what you want. Asking is not kidnapping.  Asking or stating a strong position is just that: asking and stating a strong position. I can be happy this way. This other way doesn't work for me. That's no trap for the other partner--that's just clear information. But I hear you on not wanting to oppose his dreams. And sounds like there would have been complications had he stayed. You really want to go to the East Coast. 

Just feel it all, Alpacalia. Feel it all. That's what a coach-therapist I'm really close to would say. Especially early on, she would say don't assume this feeling is bad or that feeling is bad. For now, feel it all, including all the contradictions and good and the sad. Sounds like you're doing that!!!! 

 

[Alpacalia]

2 hours ago, Gaeta said:

No matter your number you look amazing!! It's a compliment l can't tell your age! 🙂

l was asking to see if you had plenty of time to accomplish your goal. I married very young, at 21, so it was no big deal to me to put off my career for 10 years. If l was faced with the same decision today l would not uproot myself, l now have children, a property, a well established career, aging parents. 

It wasn't a fish for a compliment, it was a dodge the question. 😇

I'm def not in my 20's. But yes. Def don't want to uproot myself.

2 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

You're right: marriage is not the answer to relationship problems. It's almost impossible to resist that thought when you're with someone you really like (and when you really want to get married). Still, marriage does not solve a relationship problem. The couple has to work on their issues.

Wow, I'm getting a richer picture of your dilemma. You didn't want to hold him back from this dream. And you would have felt something wasn't right if you insisted that he stay. Totally makes sense. Totally!

On the other hand, you saying you wanted him to stay, saying it strongly, vehemently event is just you sharing what you feel. You wouldn't have been blocking him from going overseas. It's up to him to then decide what to do. I'm sensing you have more room to ask for what you want. Asking is not kidnapping.  Asking or stating a strong position is just that: asking and stating a strong position. I can be happy this way. This other way doesn't work for me. That's no trap for the other partner--that's just clear information. But I hear you on not wanting to oppose his dreams. And sounds like there would have been complications had he stayed. You really want to go to the East Coast. 

Just feel it all, Alpacalia. Feel it all. That's what a coach-therapist I'm really close to would say. Especially early on, she would say don't assume this feeling is bad or that feeling is bad. For now, feel it all, including all the contradictions and good and the sad. Sounds like you're doing that!!!! 

 

I am so glad you see where I am coming from. Ugh, I know asking him to stay is not kidnapping, or stopping him from doing something he wants to do, or I am giving him ultimatums or for him to stay and then resents me down the line for him not going because of me.  But I am sure women and men we do it to the partners we love without nefarious motivations behind them. It's when we confuse these two things: being independent, being a good partner, being proactive and also, having your partner decide something because you provide information about what you feel.

I think I am overthinking this. I oughta to just ‘feel it all',  it is such an amorphous and intelligent advice. My poor brain.

[Lotsgoingon]

Totally normal for your brain to be mush right now ... and it might last a little while. 

I once fell in love with a woman who just a month or so earlier had decided she was going to relocate from the east coast to the west coast. We met, had a great time. She told me of the move. It was coming in like 6 months. We both agonized. We really liked each other, but knew it was going to be heartbreaking.

Heartbreaking if we moved forward and then we had to say goodbye to each other in six months. (There was no way I could switch coasts--too much family near me.) Heartbreaking if we forced ourselves to coldly cut things off right now despite how much we were falling hard for each other.

We decided to get involved, and it was fun. Turns out we weren't a great fit for a long-term relationship anyway. But we had a great six months. But in the period when we were deciding this (and I was deciding for myself what to do)--with pain coming along with either choice--my brain felt physically in pain, like knotted. And my heart felt stamped on either way. 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Lotsgoingon

[Alpacalia]

7 minutes ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Totally normal for your brain to be mush right now ... and it might last a little while. 

I once fell in love with a woman who just a month or so earlier had decided she was going to relocate from the east coast to the west coast. We met, had a great time. She told me of the move. It was coming in like 6 months. We both agonized. We really liked each other, but knew it was going to be heartbreaking.

Heartbreaking if we moved forward and then we had to say goodbye to each other in six months. (There was no way I could switch coasts--too much family near me.) Heartbreaking if we forced ourselves to coldly cut things off right now despite how much we were falling hard for each other.

We decided to get involved, and it was fun. Turns out we weren't a great fit for a long-term relationship anyway. But we had a great six months. But in the period when we were deciding this (and I was deciding for myself what to do)--with pain coming along with either choice--my brain felt physically in pain, like knotted. 

Ah man, that stinks that you had to say goodbye. I know it sucks because it's like, what could have been if we were both in the same place and life could have been different?

But, it is what it is, right? We don't get to decide, we just get to be present and make choices accordingly. Regardless of anything now, you shared a moment with someone that will always be something meaningful for you. It doesn't matter if you ended up with them or not.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Alpacalia

[glows]

On 11/26/2023 at 4:39 AM, Alpacalia said:

It is and I am genuinely happy for him. I know he's going to do amazing things and really kick tail in this program.

The program starts September 2024. He would leave in the summer next year most likely.

Which kinda works out with my wait for acceptance into my radiology training program. It was lottery based this past year and I didn't win. It's been switched to merit based so I'll have more edge and starts next fall, 80-hour-per-week class load (thinking about Healthcare Administration alternatively, with fewer hours next fall).

With the Radiology program, I could travel to see him December 2024. If I do healthcare admin I would have much more flexibility.

I don’t know how it works with your work and study. Is it possible for you to work and study in Europe for a period? Ie 6 months or a year? 

In my previous response I was of the assumption that you are unable to go anywhere outside of the US but your work appears quite flexible and your study may be online? 

Im trying to figure out on what planet this man thinks it would ever have been a possibility that you go with him to Europe. This is in response to reading somewhere above that he invited you to go with him. Giving him the benefit of the doubt here that in some way or somehow he did think it was realistic. 

[NuevoYorko]

16 hours ago, giotto said:

Yeah, he doesn't love you enough to make a big compromise. To me, love is 100% and what comes first, in all my things. But we all different.

I don't agree that love is quantitative like that.  If someone gives up their dreams for another person, it can often be damaging to the relationship.   

[NuevoYorko]

3 hours ago, glows said:

 

Im trying to figure out on what planet this man thinks it would ever have been a possibility that you go with him to Europe. This is in response to reading somewhere above that he invited you to go with him. 

Especially since you are involved with the care of your father and perhaps still with your mother too?

[giotto]

5 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

If someone gives up their dreams for another person, it can often be damaging to the relationship.   

Yes, there is no relationship.... 😀 Joking apart, there are dreams and dreams. Relationships are always a compromise.

[Gaeta]

5 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

I don't agree that love is quantitative like that.  If someone gives up their dreams for another person, it can often be damaging to the relationship.   

But dreams could be delayed to accomodate the relationship. 

[Weezy1973]

There are so many variables, but in this case I just think only imperfect choices are available. You’ll see how the next few months play out. It’s possible you’ll gain clarity but it’s also possible things will remain murky. Breaking up sooner rather than later might give a sense of closure and help “pull off the band aid”, but what if your parents both have a great recovery, and you’re able to study for your programs remotely? Perhaps that would open the door to a European adventure.