How do you convince a friend is an abusive and manipulative relationship? Venting frustration!

[Throwaway_4_friend]

Im really trying to get my friend out of her abusive and manipulative marriage, she was so close, I have been trying to encourage her for years, but every [ ]  time she tries to leave him, he pulls out all the emotions, how he loves her and loves their kids (even though he doesnt do anything with the kids) and the only time he shows any emotions or tries to fix things is when she's ready to leave him.

She meets another man who is also married, Im not sure his whole story, just think its not working out, but he seems sweet and nice and really loves my friend and her kids and they were together for about 8 months. I have never seen her this happy. They are twins and bring out the best in each other

My friend is in love with this man and he her. I was helping her plan a date for them, was gonna be her cover. She was ready to leave her husband, she told her husband after getting caught.

Friend is talking about leaving her husband with me, but then husband snoops and finds out.

Instead of getting angry, he breaks down and is sad. This is a man who never shows feelings until his wife is about to leave, then magically he needs her and his kids. Begging dont take his kids away. He provides nothing, my friend does everything, he barely helps with the kids

Her husband has had almost 10 years to show my friend how he cares for her, but only does it whenever she tries to leave. She told me if her husband got angry , it would have been made easier, but since he was "hurt" and didnt want to lose his girl and kids, my friend couldnt bare to hurt him any more. Was worried about her friends and inlaws finding out and being mad at her!

It is beyond frustrating. She is worried about everyone else's feelings but her own!

Along with only showing feelings when she's ready to leave. The kids say they are afraid of their dad, I dont think he hits them, but he yells and loses his cool really quick. My friend can't go out (other than for work) unless she gets child care because he doesnt want the kids at home.

He told her how unattractive she was after both kids were born. She admits they had the first kid to try and save the marriage and she tried more kinkier stuff to try and win him back after having kids because of how unattractive he found her

I try to be positive, but whenever I so say negative things about her husband, she gets real defensive, but NEVER tries to defend him or refute any of my claims. She just says I don't understand or know the real him.

When asked what she would miss about her husband, it was just the house and financial security, nothing about him as a person or dad.

I have been in multiple abusive relationships and I know one when I see them, and the crazy thing is so has my friend, but her current husband is slightly better than the others so he looks good in comparison

She realizes it might not work still but I told her she feels different now than she did a few months ago, she was so happy with this new man and he was ready to leave his wife. Sounds like he still will. Even if that isnt the best idea, and he didnt do it right away, having that support would have been huge, but now he's gone. Said he blocked her.

I've told her more than once that too little too late is real. And it's bullshit that he only cares about her when shes about to leave. He told her he was expecting her to divorce him and was just waiting for the day. [ ] Who does that and doesnt try and change anything??!!

I told her it was awfully convenient that all this goodness coming out is his go to when he really thought she was leaving, I told her this "new man" needs to keep it up for 5+ months and years, not just a couple months.

She talks about how much better things are at home, and its because he went from putting in 0% effort to 5% effort so he looks like some saint. Also now he wants to do some activities that my friend and the other guy did together which her husband had 0 interest in doing those before.

Not really looking for advice, just ranting, but if there is advice please give! I just love my friend and she deserves so much better than this guy and Im gonna keep supporting her, I know its tough to leave an abusive relationship, been there too many times, but what ever you women do, thoughts, prayers, etc, send them to my friend and all the women in bad relationships!

Thanks for coming to my ted talk

TLDR: Husband only puts in effort when she's about to leave and suddenly has emotions and feelings and wants to do things for her and the kids

Edited January 4 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language

[NuevoYorko]

Back off!  

I know you're trying to help but you are playing an unhealthy role in this dynamic as well.

At times your post is incoherent..  The married man and your friend *were* together for 8 months and everything was rosy?  But then you were trying to plan a date for them? So their 8 month good time was just online?  And who were "twins"?   Her kids?  The married man and your friend's husband?

In any case, enabling a friend who is in an abusive relationship to move on to a married man is not  being a good friend.  So it's good that that's over.

Look - obviously you care and want to help but you are probably enabling the whole thing to go on.

Stop providing an ear for her to vent details about the mean things he says and does.  That is not helping her.   It is actually giving her positive feedback in the form of your attention to her remaining a victim.  And you are pushing her tendency to defend her husband because she feels she *loves* him and she's loyal.  

I am not suggesting you ignore her, you can be a friend, spend time together doing things that are not related to talking about her marriage and you trying to get her to leave.

Make sure she knows that when / if she is ever ready to leave,  you will help her.  All she has to do is call.

But STOP being enmeshed like you are.  Spend a lot more time and energy on your other friends and activities.  This woman's bad marriage should not be a focal point of your life.

[Throwaway_4_friend]

4 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

Back off!  

I know you're trying to help but you are playing an unhealthy role in this dynamic as well.

Im still supporting her and Im doing my best to be positive, being negative only will push her away, but I needed to vent somewhere

 

At times your post is incoherent..  The married man and your friend *were* together for 8 months and everything was rosy?  But then you were trying to plan a date for them? So their 8 month good time was just online?  And who were "twins"?   Her kids?  The married man and your friend's husband?

They had been hooking up, lot of texting, there were a few times where they could be together for short periods of time like a couple, but werent able to plan a full on full saturday date together

Twins as in I just meant they are very similar, both giving people who want to make each other happy

 

In any case, enabling a friend who is in an abusive relationship to move on to a married man is not  being a good friend.  So it's good that that's over.

Judge all you want, both stepped out because of things not being great at home despite trying to fix things, and they didnt go looking, it just fell into their laps and met, and started talking.  I told her if she was going to leave her husband due it because of the guy, not for the guy.  That this guy showed you waht is out there, but dont rely on him to 100% do the same, but hopefully you'd still have his support

Look - obviously you care and want to help but you are probably enabling the whole thing to go on.

how so?

 

Stop providing an ear for her to vent details about the mean things he says and does.  That is not helping her.   It is actually giving her positive feedback in the form of your attention to her remaining a victim.  And you are pushing her tendency to defend her husband because she feels she *loves* him and she's loyal.  

so what should I do?  Tell her I dont want to hear about it? 

 

I am not suggesting you ignore her, you can be a friend, spend time together doing things that are not related to talking about her marriage and you trying to get her to leave.

Make sure she knows that when / if she is ever ready to leave,  you will help her.  All she has to do is call.

She does!

But STOP being enmeshed like you are.  Spend a lot more time and energy on your other friends and activities.  This woman's bad marriage should not be a focal point of your life.

I NEVER said this was the focal point of my life, sorry you got that.  Yes I've wanted her to leave him for years, but I never pushed too hard except for when she was really doubting it.  I would mostly be positive, you've told him what you need from him and if he doesnt change until you're leaving Id move on.  And I do believe too little to late is a thing, I've been there, it was hard the first time for me to get out of my crappy relationship, I finally figured out he only changed when I was about to walk out the door. 

Im just angry right now, because she seemed so ready to finally pull the trigger and I was happy for her and her kids to get out of that house, I was mostly positive, I know being negative doenst work with my friend.  She's been having these talks and feelings for a few weeks now, and I did get excited at the prospect, but now Im just frustrated for her rand the kids, and I cant share my frustrations other than online.  So that is why this post seems so emotional, Im hurting for my friend and her kids, they were so close to getting a fresh start and I dont know if it will ever happen.  He knows how to play to her emotions. 

Replies in bold

 

 

[stillafool]

Glad you got your vent off but I agree, you need to back off and stay out of her relationship.  Don't set up dates for her or anything else.  If you want to support her just listen to her.  [  ]

Edited January 4 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[Throwaway_4_friend]

6 hours ago, stillafool said:

Glad you got your vent off but I agree, you need to back off and stay out of her relationship.  Don't set up dates for her or anything else.  If you want to support her just listen to her.  [ ] 

Im not trying to get in anymore, I've only been invested since the new guy as I've seen a light in her and an energy I have never seen in her.  And its mostly been reactive to when she would complain, Id ask reasons why she loved him and wanted to stay and she never gave concrete answers, mostly just "he's different" or you dont know him like I do

I only planned to cover the day date because she wanted my help, it was her idea

 

But yeah Im not going to be poking and only plan to offer support

Edited January 4 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[Throwaway_4_friend]

[  ] 
I only give advice when she asks for complains and try to keep it positive and constructive because being negative towards him doesnt work with her

Edited January 4 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
response to removed content

[NuevoYorko]

31 minutes ago, Throwaway_4_friend said:

I only give advice when she asks for complains and try to keep it positive and constructive because being negative towards him doesnt work with her

Well ... stop doing that.  Get OUT of her relationship.   If you're true friends there are other areas of common interest where you can connect.

Change the subject if she starts trying to bring it up, which she will.   Tell her straightforwardly ONE TIME when she does it that you know what's going on, you have shared your opinions already, and would she and the kids  like to go miniature golfing with you?  Or something like that.

I really mean it, stay out if you actually want her to get out some day.

Not saying that she will.  Also, you know, that there are people who define themselves by being on hand for a self destructive friend or family member; it's called "codependence."   There is actually a benefit for them to have a person who is in crisis all the time close in their lives.   Don't be that person, because it is not helping the other and it's certainly not helping you.  

[Throwaway_4_friend]

27 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

Well ... stop doing that.  Get OUT of her relationship.   If you're true friends there are other areas of common interest where you can connect.

Change the subject if she starts trying to bring it up, which she will.   Tell her straightforwardly ONE TIME when she does it that you know what's going on, you have shared your opinions already, and would she and the kids  like to go miniature golfing with you?  Or something like that.

Fair enough

 

 

I really mean it, stay out if you actually want her to get out some day.

Not saying that she will.  Also, you know, that there are people who define themselves by being on hand for a self destructive friend or family member; it's called "codependence."   There is actually a benefit for them to have a person who is in crisis all the time close in their lives.   Don't be that person, because it is not helping the other and it's certainly not helping you.  

 

That is way over the line there mate

Like we have plenty of other things in common and things we do, adn its not normally something we talk about other than recently as she was drifting far away from her husband and realized what she wanted. 

Being there for a friend in need isnt codependence

 

[Wiseman2]

Sorry this is happening. Does she have friends and family nearby who could assist her in extricating herself from this? She could use advice help support and information from domestic violence agencies and an attorney.

Covering for her so she can distract herself with a cheating snake isn't helping her. In fact it could be endangering her. 

[Throwaway_4_friend]

8 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry this is happening. Does she have friends and family nearby who could assist her in extricating herself from this? She could use advice help support and information from domestic violence agencies and an attorney.

Covering for her so she can distract herself with a cheating snake isn't helping her. In fact it could be endangering her. 

 

She does have friend support.  Her side of the family isnt much help, so her only real family she has is her in-laws.

 

I dont think there is any physical violence, I havent seen signs, its more emotional

 

I used to feel that way about cheating, but I have never seen her as happy as she was with this guy.  She wasnt this happy when dating her husband, her smile was more electric than what I saw even on her wedding day.  Now I told her dont expect him to leave his wife for you even if he's talking about it, and she knew that even if they did get together, doesnt mean it would work, but use what you've learned about yourself to tell yourself there is better out there for you.  I know she didnt plan to cheat, and I dont think this guy did either, they are two people who seem to have issues at home that werent improving and connected over that.  

 

And I get it, its hard to leave a marriage when you have kids.  If its not physical abuse, more people can overlook it. Emotions and people are far more complicated than we give them credit for and bad situations can make people do things they wouldnt normally

Edited January 4 by Throwaway_4_friend

[ExpatInItaly]

Are you actually the Other Man? 

You are otherwise bizarrely over-invested in your friend's marriage. 

[ShyViolet]

The level to which you've been enmeshed in this woman's life and business is completely inappropriate.  Do you not have a life of your own to worry about?  It's not your place to "get her out" of her marriage or convince her to leave.  You really do need to back WAY off.

I understand that you care about her.  In a situation like this, you tell her your opinion, ONCE.  From there it's her decision whether to take your advice or not.  If you're so frustrated by the bad decisions that your friend is making in her life then maybe that's a sign that you should rethink this friendship or distance yourself from her.  But it's not your place to try and change her or tell her what to do.

Edited January 4 by ShyViolet

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, Throwaway_4_friend said:

.  I know she didnt plan to cheat, and I dont think this guy did either, they are two people who seem to have issues at home that werent improving and connected over that.  

Unfortunately going from an emotionally abusive marriage to seeing a married man is just jumping from the frying pan to the fire.  

[Throwaway_4_friend]

50 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Are you actually the Other Man? 

You are otherwise bizarrely over-invested in your friend's marriage. 

I am not, its just something I've been trying to get her out of (when she complains or seeks advice).  She is my best friend, we have helped each other so many times

The hurt I've seen on her face, the phone calls, she called me crying when he told her that he no longer found her attractive not long after having her first kid. 

And this was the first time I thought she was finally leaving, I had never had any hope she would find herself in a better place.  Her husband sucks out all the joy in her life and she's been so happy these 8 months, that is why I am so invested and angry at the moment. 

[Throwaway_4_friend]

10 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately going from an emotionally abusive marriage to seeing a married man is just jumping from the frying pan to the fire.  

It would have been risky, I told her leave because of what he's shown you and the happiness you've felt and know you can find again, not for him because there is no guarantee he'll do the same

[ExpatInItaly]

1 hour ago, Throwaway_4_friend said:

that is why I am so invested and angry at the moment.

No, you're still way too involved and emotional about this. 

Enabling her affair is also plain foolish. She's making bad choices all over the place and you're not helping the situation. If you truly believe the wise choice is for her and her OM to leave their spouses and be together and everything will be great, you are also very naive . 

Please step away and mind your own business. Find a hobby or something else to occupy your mind and redirect the energy you've oddly poured into this.

[NuevoYorko]

4 hours ago, Throwaway_4_friend said:

I used to feel that way about cheating, but I have never seen her as happy as she was with this guy.  She wasnt this happy when dating her husband, her smile was more electric than what I saw even on her wedding day. 

Oh please.  Everybody who is high on a new romance has the "electric smile."  

You are a pretty bad friend to keep elevating this dalliance with the married guy to a woman who is already in a dead end, abusive situation.  Nothing like another dead end situation that will only lead to heartache.

Though I believe you said that this guy has blocked her, so that's a plus.  Unless there is a yet another married guy in line.  

 

[basil67]

All this emotional support you're giving her is actually enabling her to stay.  Each time she's upset, she's able to vent to you - this causes a release of tension - and then she calms down. And then she stays.

I've been through much the same with a good friend, but in the end I had to tell her that if she's not going to leave, then please don't tell me about it.  She eventually left when she was ready

[Throwaway_4_friend]

1 minute ago, basil67 said:

All this emotional support you're giving her is actually enabling her to stay.  Each time she's upset, she's able to vent to you - this causes a release of tension - and then she calms down. And then she stays.

I've been through much the same with a good friend, but in the end I had to tell her that if she's not going to leave, then please don't tell me about it.  She eventually left when she was ready

I will try that approach, thanks!

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, Throwaway_4_friend said:

. She is worried about everyone else's feelings but her own!

Actually, it seems like she only cares about herself and this married creep. She doesn't care about her family, the creeps wife and family, etc. 

Hopefully she will contact some domestic violence agencies for information, support, advice and help. She also needs to consult an attorney for information, support and advice about leaving the marriage. 

 

[Throwaway_4_friend]

Just now, Wiseman2 said:

Actually, it seems like she only cares about herself and this married creep. She doesn't care about her family, the creeps wife and family, etc. 

Hopefully she will contact some domestic violence agencies for information, support, advice and help. She also needs to consult an attorney for information, support and advice about leaving the marriage. 

 

She cares a lot of the kids, thats part of the reason she hasnt left, said didnt want to break up their family, worried about finances for the kids.  I dont know the whole guy's story.  I thought I would judge, but knowing her situation I dont judge and understand how it happened.   I get that not everyone can forgive or overlook cheating, but I can.  She helped me when I needed to get out of some terrible relationships and I can never judge her harshly for the way her bad marriage has made her act

[ExpatInItaly]

59 minutes ago, Throwaway_4_friend said:

She cares a lot of the kids, thats part of the reason she hasnt left, said didnt want to break up their family

Yet she engaged in behaviour that could have blown up her family?

That doesn't make sense. She might not want to see her kids suffer,  but she is a complete hypocrite by then having an affair which risked their family unit.  She is lucky that her husband didn't immediately kick her to curb and reveal that mom is a lying cheat. That could indeed still happen someday. 

She has been very selfish and not acting in the best interest of her kids. They deserve a lot better from both parents. 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Throwaway_4_friend said:

 didnt want to break up their family, worried about finances for the kids.  I dont know the whole guy's story

Every cheater uses this excuse.  The "guy's story" is probably the same excuse. 

[stillafool]

1 hour ago, Throwaway_4_friend said:

She helped me when I needed to get out of some terrible relationships and I can never judge her harshly for the way her bad marriage has made her act

Her marriage didn't make her have an affair.  That's on her. How is that helping?  Why not seek a divorce rather than an affair.  That would have helped her more.

[ChrisTheCat]

Hi Throwaway,

I'm going to cut to the chase and answer your original question,  "How do you convince a friend is an abusive and manipulative relationship?"

The answer is "You can't".

People come to things in their own time. This is something they have to work out for themselves.

I would suggest you take a step back and let her get on with it.

It sounds cruel but you can't nurse the world.