How do you argue in a healthy way?

[brokenbird]

I know the most comes down to people not willing to see through the other's eyes, but I am sure I can do something.

This problem occures both in my romantic relationship and my friendships. Something inconvenient happens, I try to talk it out, but the other half keeps on pushing what I should have done better. These are usually not serious topics, but they end up being traumatizing me for days, and creating resentment deep down. I will give an example.

We had an upcoming event with my partner and friends next week. I get an info that the guys want to go out alone before that event. I told my partner that Im a bit sad that because of this, we cant be alone that day. He said he wouldnt go and just stay with me. I wanted him to have a good time, so I texted the group chat, asking if the previous event is still up, because if it is, then I might cancel that one, so my boyfriend can go to the other one they planned for the boys. One person came at me out of the blue with some childish gibberish, how the planet has life on it without me and I dont have to be so dramatic. I couldnt even understand. Like, what? I had a panic attac that day, so this sudden hurt triggered another one and I started to bombard my boyfriend to say something in the chat. A useless arguement happened, so I decided to wait until we meet and talk. I tried to tell him that the guys went behind my back for no reason, hyped each other up with anger and came at me, and even though what they said was childish, a light little sentence backing me up would have been nice. My boyfriend kept on saying that I should not even asked anything in the group chat because he has already told me he wont go and I dont need to decide instead of him as he was a child. I know, he was in the right and I told him that I am sorry for that, but he should look at it like "my girl made a mistake, now I still should help her because she is my partner ". He felt like he shouldnt have say anything because that was a kindergarten level of conversation and this is not the type of case where I need protection. I said I understand that too and he might be right, but I was worked up and needed consoling which I didn't get because he knew he was in the right.

The same happens with my friends. One time I was told off because I didn't want to go to a place. I just said that it is always fine if they want to cancel, but I am always bad for not wanting something. They thought I said that I have a problem with them which is not true, I just wanted them to understand that if it is okay for them to have a boundary, it is also okay for me to have it.

Even at my work place. I say that we should work on something, because this is not the right way. They immediately think I am attacking them and they make a big fuss about it.

I feel like the problem might be with me if this happens every week with someone. I need advice on how to have a healthy agruement because from the long ones I keep getting traumatized for days and I feel resentment in me. I know what my partner wanted, he wanted me to understand that I should not make decisions for him and I have learned that. But I feel numb and hurt because that arguement was so long, me trying to make him understand that I get what he mean but he still could say a word when "childish" people come at me and not because I can protect myself, but because I want to feel like a team . Usually I can let things go at work and friends, but my partner is important to me so those hurt more.

[d0nnivain]

Your BF was right.  You had no business in the group chat.  That was for him to work out not you. 

The person who said that there was other life on the planet was rude & pushy.  You need a thick skin to ignore folks like that. 

At work you don't tell people the "right" way to do something unless you are the boss & there is a written protocol.  Instead you suggest have they ever thought about doing it your way because you have found that way more efficient. 

I'm not sure I follow the issue with your friends.  It seems like you hardly want to go places but then have to go through a whole song & dance about why they can still go even if you don't want to.  That doesn't need to be said.  Saying it causes drama. 

One way to deal with fights & disagreements is to head them off.  Sometimes silence is the best option.  Just hold your tongue & don't insert your opinion.  Another good way is to preface things with "I feel" or "I think" so it's clear you are stating your opinion not some mandate.  

[Wiseman2]

12 minutes ago, brokenbird said:

. My boyfriend kept on saying that I should not even asked anything in the group chat because he has already told me he wont go and I dont need to decide instead of him as he was a child.

Perhaps focus more on avoiding arguments. From your description it seems like you like to micromanage other people and their business and when they push back you feel attacked

 Please stay in your own lane. It's better to avoid arguments by avoiding what starts them than it is to backpedal and double down.

[brokenbird]

2 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

Your BF was right.  You had no business in the group chat.  That was for him to work out not you. 

My problem is that I know this, I admitted my part, and truly believe he is right, but when someone has already made the mistake, you should treat the consequence instead of keep repeating how I should have done it better. Literally what I told him : I know you are right, I wanted you to have fun and I believed this was the right thing to do,but now I see it was not. However, when your partner makes a mistake, you should remember that they are your partner and help them correct that mistake or treat it in some way, which in this case should have been keeping my back.

The response to this was again, he had no business with that. I kept on getting more and more depressed, I started to cry because I felt like a crazy child that no one pays attention to. I said I was wrong, but I needed his word next to mine. Then I got even more sad because I needed consoling and he felt like I made this for myself.

 

2 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

At work you don't tell people the "right" way to do something unless you are the boss & there is a written protocol.  Instead you suggest have they ever thought about doing it your way because you have found that way more efficient. 

You see, I was the one who opened that section of the hotel I work at. I was the one who planned where to place which furniture. I was the one who tutored everyone who came after me. So when I see that they cant do their job right and I get more and more work because they cant do theirs, I have to talk to them and show them the original, right way. If I tell them that "hey, I saw that you keep missing this step and I have to do it twice as hard because there should be 2 people doing it. Can you tell me which part do you need help with so I can show you again?" 

2 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

It seems like you hardly want to go places but then have to go through a whole song & dance about why they can still go even if you don't want to.  That doesn't need to be said.  Saying it cause

Noo. That was just an example amongs many. There are people in that group who are not willing to help with cleaning up after a party but when we are at their place, they tell us to help. When I told them to help me too, they said that I should be able to pick up a few cups. So when they dont want to go somewhere, they want help, they dont want to do something, it is an accepted boundary, but when I do the same I am a dramaqueen. There was a guy who was mean to everyone and people didn't day a word. When I was mean one time because that guy got on my nerves, they labeled me as a lunatic and didn't talk to me for a month. When I told them that it is not fair, what happened was the first story, they talked about what I said, decided that I am unacceptable and blocked me everywhere.

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Perhaps focus more on avoiding arguments. From your description it seems like you like to micromanage other people and their business and when they push back you feel attacked

I understand and you are probably right. But then in the first case, how on Earth should I have told my boyfriend that I needed support

[Acacia98]

2 hours ago, brokenbird said:

 There are people in that group who are not willing to help with cleaning up after a party but when we are at their place, they tell us to help. When I told them to help me too, they said that I should be able to pick up a few cups. So when they dont want to go somewhere, they want help, they dont want to do something, it is an accepted boundary, but when I do the same I am a dramaqueen. There was a guy who was mean to everyone and people didn't day a word. When I was mean one time because that guy got on my nerves, they labeled me as a lunatic and didn't talk to me for a month. When I told them that it is not fair, what happened was the first story, they talked about what I said, decided that I am unacceptable and blocked me everywhere.

They don't sound like great friends. Perhaps consider backing away from friendships that subject you to double standards? That's what I'd do.

[brokenbird]

1 hour ago, Acacia98 said:

They don't sound like great friends. Perhaps consider backing away from friendships that subject you to double standards? That's what I'd do.

They did the job for me. Blocked me for good. Its only my boyfriend I feel sorry for, they been his friend for over 15 years and they never had conflicts.

[d0nnivain]

Those people weren't your friends.  They were his friends.  They were your acquaintances.  

When you need support, you point blank say "I'm upset.  I need support."  If you have a concrete idea of what that looks like, say that.  Sometimes I just need a hug so I say that.  

[basil67]

8 hours ago, brokenbird said:

, but he should look at it like "my girl made a mistake, now I still should help her because she is my partner "

There is no "should".   You know, in over 30 years with my partner, he's never helped me to clean up one of my own social stuff ups - and nor would I expect him to.   After all, if I am responsible for the mess, then it's on me to fix it.   

9 hours ago, brokenbird said:

The same happens with my friends. One time I was told off because I didn't want to go to a place. I just said that it is always fine if they want to cancel, but I am always bad for not wanting something. They thought I said that I have a problem with them which is not true, I just wanted them to understand that if it is okay for them to have a boundary, it is also okay for me to have it.

If a group organises going to a place and you don't want to go to that place, just make a polite excuse.  "I'm so sorry, I'd love to come but I can't make it because (I'm exhausted and need a night off) or (I have to help my sister with something).   How do "boundaries" fit in this story?  

9 hours ago, brokenbird said:

I feel like the problem might be with me if this happens every week with someone. I need advice on how to have a healthy agruement because from the long ones I keep getting traumatized for days and I feel resentment in me.

Don't argue.

Keep any unpleasant/unpopular opinions to yourself.  Be pleasant.  Avoid organising other people, complaining or negativity.   Honestly, a lot of getting on with others involves biting one's tongue.  

[brokenbird]

Please wait for my response until tomorrow, I am travelling at the moment, but I read all the replies and I would like to make a response

[brokenbird]

16 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

Those people weren't your friends.  They were his friends.  They were your acquaintances.  

When you need support, you point blank say "I'm upset.  I need support."  If you have a concrete idea of what that looks like, say that.  Sometimes I just need a hug so I say that.  

I do say what I need. I said clearly that I dont need him to act like a knight, just as if he is having my back, saying something like "chill, she just asked a question". 

Although, I realized something. If I want to be with a person, I have to admit that they will have traits that are not fine with me. For years I thought that my best friends boyfriend was much better with words than my boyfriend, and him protecting her with his words was such a dream. Until I found out how he can use his words in such a disgusting way, a way my boyfriend would never do to people. So the grass is really not greener on the other side. If I want to live with him, I have to accept that he only protects me if something physical happens at the moment, but if I tell him that a guy was too touchy, he will give me advices on how to avoid these things. If I dont let it go, arguements will happen.

15 hours ago, basil67 said:

After all, if I am responsible for the mess, then it's on me to fix it.   

I see. And I agree, but a spouse could support you on your way.

 

15 hours ago, basil67 said:

Honestly, a lot of getting on with others involves biting one's tongue.  

I slowly begin to agree. But then how do people learn if they stay silent? One of the guys literally said that he learned he has to word his problems sooner because of me. How do people teach life lessons to each other if they act like sheep. I dont know. If someone says something about me that is not true, I feel the need to correct them. For example, they told me that they have to make plans according to my schedule. Which is not true, because they are the ones with a fixated work schedule and I can move my days around as I want. So if they say 20th october, then it is fine by me. It was always me who pops up the "which day works for you guys " question, so I can write my schedule according to them. I was never able to just say "fine, they think I am the one who makes the plans, let them think that way"

[brokenbird]

19 hours ago, Acacia98 said:

They don't sound like great friends. Perhaps consider backing away from friendships that subject you to double standards? That's what I'd do.

I lost my friends because of my last relationship. Because I was in such pain that I abandoned them. I cant take that back. I found my now boyfriend and his friend group was nice. Few guys friend sincs school, and a few girlfriends of theirs. I found my bff in that group. She is the only one who talks to me since this case happened. I have always seen their redflags, but never judged. Now that I see what they did to me, I feel like I should have just told them how they are toxic, too. I feel sad for my boyfriend. I want him to get his childhood friend back. I wish to get an apology, just for him. But I guess that wont happen, they will either never reach out to him or act like nothing happened 

[d0nnivain]

41 minutes ago, brokenbird said:

. But then how do people learn if they stay silent? * * * . How do people teach life lessons to each other if they act like sheep. I dont know. If someone says something about me that is not true, I feel the need to correct them.

It's not your job to teach others life lessons. 

Offering your opinion when you haven't been asked may be part of your problem  If you are coming off as somebody who always has to be right or somebody who thinks she always knows better you could be turning people off. Yoru need to correct others is at the heart of this conflict.  

Biting your tongue & staying silent is a tough thing to do.  I struggle with it.  

Edited January 18 by d0nnivain

[brokenbird]

21 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

It's not your job to teach others life lessons. 

Offering your opinion when you haven't been asked may be part of your problem  If you are coming off as somebody who always has to be right or somebody who thinks she always knows better you could be turning people off. Yoru need to correct others is at the heart of this conflict.  

Biting your tongue & staying silent is a tough thing to do.  I struggle with it.  

Im halfway with understanding what you said .

I didn't mean teaching as in me teaching others, just in general. If people bite their tongue all the time, how do people learn that their thought pattern is not really right.

I also dont want to be right all the time, I know there are different views than mine. But let's say I took out the trash today and someone says I am untrustworthy and lazy because I did not took the trash out today. Do I let them feel like I am such a bad person when I indeed took out the trash? Because this is what I am talking about. People decide I am something when that is not true, I say something and then that turns into an arguement. Just like when I said to my boyfriend that he was right, I made a mistake by acting against what he said, I was sorry, BUT he could have just told them to chill. 

[Wiseman2]

13 minutes ago, brokenbird said:

, how do people learn that their thought pattern is not really right.

 

I don't understand why you believe people need to conform to your idea of "correct"  thought patterns.

Please live and let live. Let other people run their lives as they see fit. 

Have you read the book "1984"? It's pretty scary to think you need to control others  thoughts and behaviors this much.

 

Edited January 18 by Wiseman2

[brokenbird]

Just now, Wiseman2 said:

I don't understand why you believe people need to conform to your idea of "correct"  though patterns. Please live and let live. Let other people run their lives as they see fit. 

You guys misunderstand me, that is the main issue with me getting into arguements, I try to explain myself and people dont get what I mean, so I get worked up and either argue or cry.

Let's say I keep telling all of my friends that they are always late when I am the one an hour late every time. If they bite their tongue and not say "hey, do you realize that we were here exactly at 5 and you just arrived at 6?", how do I learn to not blame them all the time and realize I am the one at fault? This is what I meant. If people keep their opinions, how do we learn our mistakes. Should 10 years pass until I check the clock and admit "damn, I was the one being late for 10 years and I blamed you guys"?

[Wiseman2]

31 minutes ago, brokenbird said:

 the main issue with me getting into arguements, I try to explain myself and people dont get what I mean, so I get worked up and either argue or cry.

Why argue?  You're doing it here insinuating no one understands you.

A simple "we were waiting and you were late" would suffice. It doesn't have to end in arguments and crying.. 

Being excessively argumentative and confrontational is not "teaching" anyone anything.  It's forcing your view down their throats and when they apply boundaries you want to be consoled?  

Edited January 18 by Wiseman2

[brokenbird]

27 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Why argue?  You're doing it here insinuating no one understands you.

A simple "we were waiting and you were late" would suffice. It doesn't have to end in arguments and crying.. 

Being excessively argumentative and confrontational is not "teaching" anyone anything.  It's forcing your view down their throats and when they apply boundaries you want to be consoled?  

Okay, I understand this one.

But what should I do when I want to be understood but the other is not willing?

Ill make up another example. A year ago I was reckless and fearless, I couldnt see any consequences. It has already changed much, but let's talk about a past case. I was out with some friends without my partner, he was planning to join later. A friend just said that there is a bar at the corner and she wants some beer but she doesnt want to go inside. So I offered to buy her beer. I went inside and a guy, very angrily came to me, grabbed my waist and he was not willing to let me go. I told him to let go and he didn't budge. I broke out of his arms. Later that night my boyfriend joined and I told him what happened to me. In my mind, I believed that he would get angry that a guy touched his girl so agressively. Instead of this, he got angry at me and told me that I was such a pretty girl, I was dressed in attractive clothes and I made a dumb choice by going into the bar alone. Here comes the point. I told him that he was fully right, I was stupid, reckless and now I know that I shouldnt have wondered alone, but I would feel better if he showed me some worry or anything. I told him what I needed - not him going after the guy and smashing his head which would result in my boyfriend being arrested, but rather telling me stuff like he is sooo mad someone touched me and he feels sorry for me. I communicated my needs and he just kept being rational and explaining to me that my decisions led to this. Obviously he cares about me if he explains these things with thought, but I feel like he cant feel worried if it was my mistake. I dont know how else I should communicate this. When something bad happens to me, he tells me the reasons so I could be safe next time which is great, but I need to feel like he cares about other guys 

[Wiseman2]

2 minutes ago, brokenbird said:

 I need to feel like he cares about other guys 

Please rethink your priorities. Your BF is not your bodyguard. 

[Acacia98]

1 hour ago, brokenbird said:

You guys misunderstand me, that is the main issue with me getting into arguements, I try to explain myself and people dont get what I mean, so I get worked up and either argue or cry.

Let's say I keep telling all of my friends that they are always late when I am the one an hour late every time. If they bite their tongue and not say "hey, do you realize that we were here exactly at 5 and you just arrived at 6?", how do I learn to not blame them all the time and realize I am the one at fault? This is what I meant. If people keep their opinions, how do we learn our mistakes. Should 10 years pass until I check the clock and admit "damn, I was the one being late for 10 years and I blamed you guys"?

Lol. This example is great... Flakiness is unfortunately the norm among the people around me, so I encounter this kind of thing a lot.

If someone is flaky and then tries to blame me for it, I don't bother correcting her. If we agreed to meet at 5 and then proceed to dinner and then she doesn't show up at 5 or even call to say she's running late, I'll wait for 10-15 minutes if I'm feeling nice, then I'll go get dinner on my own and go home. If there was a legitimate reason for her failure to show up on time, that will eventually be evident. But if there was no legit reason and she dares to blame me for the fact that we didn't meet, there'll be no next time. I won't argue with her or explain the reasons for my unavailability. I just won't agree to future suggestions to meet. If she's not happy about that, that's fine.

I find that life is much simpler when you don't go out of your way to justify your choices to others.

Edited January 18 by Acacia98

[brokenbird]

Just now, Wiseman2 said:

Please rethink your priorities. Your BF is not your bodyguard. 

He is not. However, I can see how it makes him feel nice when he is sick and I care for him with love, not just as a routine. I would also feel better if he didn't just explain his thoughts but also showed me some worry.

[Wiseman2]

Just now, brokenbird said:

. I would also feel better if he didn't just explain his thoughts but also showed me some worry.

But that's just looking for drama. Explaining his views is fine. 

[brokenbird]

1 minute ago, Acacia98 said:

Lol. This example is great... Flakiness is unfortunately the norm among the people around me, so I encounter this kind of thing a lot.

If someone is flaky and then tries to blame me for it, I don't bother correcting her. If we agreed to meet at 5 and then proceed to dinner and then she doesn't show up at 5 or even call to say she's running late, I'll wait for 10-15 minutes if I'm feeling nice, then I'll go get dinner on my own and go home. If there was a legitimate reason for her failure to show up on time, that will eventually be evident. But if there was no legit reason and she dares to blame me for the fact that we didn't meet, there'll be no next time. I won't argue with her or explain the reasons for my unavailability. I just won't agree too future suggestions to met. If she's not happy about that, that's fine.

I find that life is much simpler when you don't go out of your way to justify your choices to others.

This is reasonable, but what about people who are important ? What if it is a mother who blames you for something that she does in reality? 

[stillafool]

It really sounds like you and your bf aren't compatible and he's starting to realize this.  He's looking for someone to use their common sense and avoid these confrontations and you want someone to support you even when you make poor choices.  I'm sure that guy is out there but your bf isn't it.  Neither of you are necessarily wrong but completely incompatible and it's only a matter of time before he tires of this relationship and moves on from you.

[brokenbird]

Just now, Wiseman2 said:

But that's just looking for drama. Explaining his views is fine. 

Not really. It is safety. I feel secure if I know my man is bothered by others touching me. If a girl touched my boyfriend, I would not get mad, throw tantrums or things like that. I would tell him that it must have been scary (I know it is not the same for girls and guys, but only way I can explain) and no girl should touch him. Especially if I knew he needed me to feel that way.

[brokenbird]

Just now, stillafool said:

It really sounds like you and your bf aren't compatible and he's starting to realize this.  He's looking for someone to use their common sense and avoid these confrontations and you want someone to support you even when you make poor choices.  I'm sure that guy is out there but your bf isn't it.  Neither of you are necessarily wrong but completely incompatible and it's only a matter of time before he tires of this relationship and moves on from you.

That could also be the case for me. I could get tired, too. Because no one is perfect. Obviously I state my flaws here, because I am the one wanting to improve. Im sure a guy like that is out there, too. The reason I dont move on is that I know another guy will have a different flaw. Everyone has them