Family Scapegoat

[Alpacalia]

1 hour ago, FMW said:

I agree with the advice to take your father to see an attorney to discuss his financial situation.  Without that, and with your position that you will just step aside (understandable to a point, but not advisable), there is a lot of opportunity for your father's best interest to not be honored.  You can't force your father to do anything (unless you have him legally declared incompetent,  which is not the situation you seem to have), but he will at least have the benefit of professional advice, whether or not he follows it.

My work involves law and finances, and I've seen a lot of unfortunate family situations.  I've also witnessed it in my own extended family.  Letting your sister take over his finances when she doesn't appear to be reliable or even stable is likely to lead to even more trouble and anxiety for you (and your dad) in the future.  

I would talk to your father and ask if he would agree to visit an attorney.  You and your siblings could arrange to all go with him if that's what he wants.  Once he's been given legal advice and fully understands his options he will hopefully make a better decision than he seems to be considering right now.  After that, you can at least have a little peace knowing you've done your best, whatever he decides.  

I can do that once he's here in April.

My thought was to let him know an option for handling money while offering a second option of him doing what he wants but with some education as to the potential consequences. For me, I don't want myself entangled with my sister any further than I have to be. That's why I feel like 0 money involvement from me protects me the best. My general mindset is "I'll do what I can and the rest I have to let go of". But when he mentioned, "transfer the money to her account" while not giving much, I felt at that point I had a window to introduce the other option. I just don't want to be involved in any arguments with my sister. 

On a personal level, I like my sister. Just not the amount of bad juju that has followed her around for the past 3-4 years like toilet paper on a shoe. The extra headache of dealing with financial strife which will probably be the inevitable result of her POA - is something I do want to try to curb if as I said, I have any small window to do so.

My Dad's cognitive is still there albeit diminished. But we're due to start working together with his speech therapist on cognitively enhancing exercise so maybe I wait a bit. He has to deal with moving from a place that he absolutely loves and regaining strength following his stroke I don't want that added stress for him. He's doing better but it's very early still.

I will be straight with him about my reservations but 100% above all I want to respect his decision and his autonomy.

Edited February 29 by Alpacalia

[mark clemson]

Not addressing the POA situation, and your sister's personality/issues (which ARE part and parcel of this, but I don't think I understand the situation clearly enough to give good advice), from a purely practical perspective, I think your sister has a bit of a point. You both work, but she has a family on top of that.

Of course one problem (among several) is that being responsible for taking care of your dad will take time away from other things (e.g starting a family of your own if you're looking to do that). Believe me you are far from alone in facing this situation - many many people, my own wife included, are in a similar boat.

Sometimes with an elder care situation it boils down to "who's willing to do it" - along with "who actually can". If that's you, then asking for/insisting on whatever support she CAN give from your sister might help make things at least a tiny bit more even.

If there's enough money for him to have his own place in an elder care facility that will be helpful as, once he is situated your involvement may come in the form of checking up on him regularly (e.g. once a week) which might start to feel more manageable. (I'm speaking from experience on this issue as this is what my wife now does.)

If he is likely to become a financial burden on you, or his health issues are likely to cause recurring "crisis situations" then you need to look at all this with even greater caution. (As he ages more, it's likely he will have at least some health crises, but I suspect you're already well aware of this.)

Please note that I'm NOT advising you whether to "take him" or not in the above. That's something you'll need to carefully think through. I'm just sharing thoughts as someone who's been indirectly involved with similar situations.

Edited February 29 by mark clemson

[Alpacalia]

2 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

Not addressing the POA situation, and your sister's personality/issues (which ARE part and parcel of this, but I don't think I understand the situation clearly enough to give good advice), from a purely practical perspective, I think your sister has a bit of a point. You both work, but she has a family on top of that.

Of course one problem (among several) is that being responsible for taking care of your dad will take time away from other things (e.g starting a family of your own if you're looking to do that). Believe me you are far from alone in facing this situation - many many people, my own wife included, are in a similar boat.

Sometimes with an elder care situation it boils down to "who's willing to do it" - along with "who actually can". If that's you, then asking for/insisting on whatever support she CAN give from your sister might help make things at least a tiny bit more even.

If there's enough money for him to have his own place in an elder care facility that will be helpful as, once he is situated your involvement may come in the form of checking up on him regularly (e.g. once a week) which might start to feel more manageable. (I'm speaking from experience on this issue as this is what my wife now does.)

If he is likely to become a financial burden on you, or his health issues are likely to cause recurring "crisis situations" then you need to look at all this with even greater caution.

Please note that I'm NOT advising you whether to "take him" or not in the above. That's something you'll need to carefully think through. I'm just sharing thoughts as someone who's been indirectly involved with similar situations.

Thanks Mark!

My sister abandoned her children several years ago and moved to Mexico. Her children are adults now and the only reason she came back was because her ex-husband asked her too.

She is single and lives alone, both her children are off to college.

I don't think my Dad will become a financial burden to me- that's not at all what I am concerned about.

I am concerned that my sister makes all these moves from her ivory tower with little involvement in his care and thinks she has the right to the POA.

[Alpacalia]

4 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

So your father appointed your sister as POA? Please get an attorney. Please at least research what is going on and the rights of elders as a protected group. 

From the Department of Justice: Examples Of Elder Financial Abuse

Intercepting checks or cash,

Power of attorney fraud,

Convincing an elder to hand over money or personal property,

Coercing the person to change their estate planning documents,

I made an appointment. Thank You. 🙏

[Alpacalia]

Guys I have a question. Should I tell my sister I am meeting with an elder law attorney? Also, should I ask her to route all correspondence moving forward via email? Normally we do it via Whatsapp on her suggestion but I just removed myself from it. Also, his lady friend just sent pics of my Dad signing docs via Whatsapp and I am assuming that is for the closing of this property.

I feel I need to bow out at this point and deal with it with the lawyer. I spoke with my brother and he is on board with the attorney and will be accompanying me with the consult.

Edited February 29 by Alpacalia

[Alpacalia]

After discussing with my brother, we decided to reach out to my sister.

I requested a phone call with my sister, brother, and myself to discuss the matter at hand. Initially, she agreed to call me, but unfortunately, she did not follow through. This has been her usual approach in handling conflicts in the past. 

I removed myself from our group chat on Whatsapp that she, myself, and my father usually communicate on that she set up. I also sent her a message that I am not exactly proud of. I said, "you can stonewall me all you want, and when I move back east, you can go f yourself."

I have tried to maintain a civil relationship with her up to this point. I don't have to agree with her actions, but it has been so hard finding a way to compromise and work together. I'm so not proud of how I handled my last communication to her, and while my message may have been emotionally driven, it does not excuse my actions.

I made a phone call to my Dad to discuss the recent funds from his property closing and explain my suggestion that the money be put into a joint account, rather than just my sister's, to ensure that both of us would have access to it in case of any unforeseen circumstances regarding his ongoing care. 

He agreed and said to speak with my sister to arrange it. Well, we see how that went. I'm meeting with an elder care attorney soon but part of me doesn't want to and just wants to wash my hands of this, let me sister control everything, and that's that.

Thankfully my female cousin has been there to talk some sense into me and help me process all of this. I can't talk to my father about the gory details nor my mother albeit my brother has been a good source of emotional support and someone who has distanced him from having much interaction with my sister. Anyway, just another hurdle in a trying time.

I just feel isolated and if I didn't have these outlets I think I would honestly have 180'd myself right off the edge. Thanks for listening 🙏

[Weezy1973]

40 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

…my suggestion that the money be put into a joint account, rather than just my sister's, to ensure that both of us would have access to it in case of any unforeseen circumstances regarding his ongoing care. 

This sounds like such a tough situation, so sorry you have to go through this. Unfortunately it’s not that uncommon when dealing with elder care and estate planning. Old wounds certainly come back in full force during these emotional times.

As far as a joint account goes, for most accounts the funds belong to each person 100%. In other words your dad could transfer the funds into the joint account and then she (or you) could legally just transfer those funds into your own personal account and it’s perfectly legal.

Like POA you can set up a joint account where you both have to act together to do anything. This means however that you’ll need to be together for every transaction. 

[Alpacalia]

42 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

This sounds like such a tough situation, so sorry you have to go through this. Unfortunately it’s not that uncommon when dealing with elder care and estate planning. Old wounds certainly come back in full force during these emotional times.

As far as a joint account goes, for most accounts the funds belong to each person 100%. In other words your dad could transfer the funds into the joint account and then she (or you) could legally just transfer those funds into your own personal account and it’s perfectly legal.

Like POA you can set up a joint account where you both have to act together to do anything. This means however that you’ll need to be together for every transaction. 

Thanks.

I just wish to go about this with as little involvement as possible but not sure how that's possible.

I feel myself loosing my cool with her and I need to 1. Try to get this resolved as quick and painless as possible and 2. Try to remain calm. Doesn't sound like those are gonna happen unfortunately.

She sent me a message a few days ago about my brother and half brother. That her talents are best served making money and that out of us siblings she is going to make more money than any of us so she can't be personally taking care of our parents. That she is needed on this earth more than them (my brothers) and that they offer little value as human beings to this world. I was like, huh?

I think it's what you said, for both us really, that old childhood wounds come back full force and 3. Try to be kind and sympathetic for all involved, no matter how much I am biting my tongue.

A joint account may be a good idea, to both assuage any potential lost assets (on either side) and to try to level this playing field. We'll see what happens!

Edited March 1 by Alpacalia

[Wiseman2]

Please speak to an attorney. As you know, in addition to caretakers, financial intuitions are mandatory reporters for elder financial exploitation. Including red flags such as money going from his account to any of your siblings accounts. 

Warning Signs of Elder Financial Abuse

Checks or bank statements that go to the perpetrator.

Large bank withdrawals or transfers between accounts.

Edited March 1 by Wiseman2

[Alpacalia]

Thanks Wiseman2. I don't think there is abuse of any kind with regard to my sister towards my father. I think it‘s an understanding, whether unspoken or not, that because my father is frail he needs someone nearby.  And that person has been designated to be me. 

I don’t see this as a situation where she could be taking funds from him. At least I hope not. I honestly think it’s silent communication and tactics she uses to get her point across, and like I’ve said in the past, I hope I’m overthinking it, but I’m probably not.

One other point to mention...My female cousin pointed out, not that I already didn’t know/get what she’s saying that my sister’s main objective is making money for herself by any means necessary and sometimes when people are in desperate modes, anything is possible. She's in survival mode. Albeit, so am I, at least where my emotional sanity is concerned.

I honestly don't think she would do that with my father's money, but I can't be 100% certain. But yes, I am going to meet with an attorney just to be cautious and make sure everything is in order.

[Alpacalia]

I talked my father today. He said he is going to put the money from the sale of his property into his account.

My sister reached out to him and told him that myself and my brother were upset because she was putting all the money into her account. Which, is true, I just hoped she could have avoided telling my father that we were upset about it.

I spoke to an attorney and they are running a conflict check and then we can make an appointment. I'm not really sure what that entails but I will wait to hear back.

Prior to this, I reached out to my sister to apologize for telling her to go f herself and that my brother and myself would be meeting with attorneys and that we would really appreciate if she would make herself accessible to be on the call and that we wanted to include her but she did not respond.

So, I guess she prefers not to be part of that conversation.

[Wiseman2]

This is excellent. Your father's money is his and only belongs in his account. An attorney must have his best interests in mind. Your father is the protected individual in the situation. 

"my father  said he is going to put the money from the sale of his property into his account"

[Alpacalia]

5 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

This is excellent. Your father's money is his and only belongs in his account. An attorney must have his best interests in mind. Your father is the protected individual in the situation. 

"my father  said he is going to put the money from the sale of his property into his account"

Yes. I am happy about it. But I also feel sad because my sister probably feels ostracized. I am also worried because she brought this to his attention and he said he doesn't want bad feelings amongst us. I said to my father please don't worry about that, we all love each other, we just want to make sure everything is done properly and that you are taken care of. But he could sense the tension between us and he doesn't want that for our family.

[Alpacalia]

So my sister went on a war path after this. She directed me that I should leave the house that I rent in a month and that she will take care of everything and that I won't have to lift a finger where my father is concerned.

Which is rich considering the lease is in my name lol.

I seriously think this chick has lost her mind. She went so far as to tell my Dad, who had a stroke no less, that I was upset because she was putting the money into her account when I explicitly said to her that we do not need to burden my father any further by going to him with issues between us siblings. I left her a message to say that I need my father's health insurance information so that I can set up all his appointments here when he comes to live with me including a Home Health agency and she's been ignoring it.

I am about to unleash on her in a way that I have never done before. 

Edited March 11 by Alpacalia

[Wiseman2]

Why can't you get this information from your brother who is giving you money for your father's care or your father's lady friend who seems to be quite helpful and at least has his best interest at heart? 

Edited March 12 by Wiseman2

[Alpacalia]

Just now, Wiseman2 said:

Why can't you get this information from your brother who is giving you money or your father's lady friend who seems to be quite helpful and has his best interest at heart? 

My brother is helping towards my father, not me. And he is not handling anything outside of that.

My sister said she would set up his new health insurance information for the state I live in (my father lives in a different state, so we had to switch it). I offered to take it off her plate a while back, but she said she would handle it.

His lady friend unleashed on my sister too. I don't think his lady friend has the new health insurance information for my father.

[happyhorizons]

Why would any CHILD not want to help their elderly parent?  Very very sad....there is not enough love in this world

[Alpacalia]

Update:

I am feeling really confused and concerned at the moment. My sister left a frantic voicemail for our mother about our dad (who is currently living in Arizona with his lady friend until he comes to stay with me in April) and that she (my sister) is very upset because all these "terrible things are happening to my Dad" and that she needs to urgently speak with me but that she can't right now because she's busy but for me to "call her."

Prior to this, my sister has not been returning my calls or emails concerning paperwork for my father and wanting to have a group call with an Elder Attorney and I haven't heard from her in over a week.

It makes no sense because I am in frequent contact with my dad and he is fine; I have been in ongoing contact with all his home therapy staff for the past few months; and I also recently spoke with his home occupational therapist that reassured me yesterday that he is doing well.

So, this phone call today is a bit of a surprise to me...

I checked in with my dad and his lady friend after hearing the voicemail my sister left and they both confirmed that everything is fine. 

I am trying to fathom what on possible earth could be so terrifyingly tumultuous that my sister is so worked up about it. But I also don't see why she can't just text me or call me to give me a quick overview before she has to leave for whatever she's doing.... Why would she leave a vague, panicked voicemail and say she needs to talk to me about our father, leave it on someone else's voicemail (my mother's voicemail), then say she "can't talk about it now because she's heading out..."? It's all very confusing. I am not sure what to think.

Edited March 24 by Alpacalia

[happyhorizons]

27 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

Update:

I am feeling really confused and concerned at the moment. My sister left a frantic voicemail for our mother about our dad (who is currently living in Arizona with his lady friend until he comes to stay with me in April) and that she (my sister) is very upset because all these "terrible things are happening to my Dad" and that she needs to urgently speak with me but that she can't right now because she's busy but for me to "call her."

Prior to this, my sister has not been returning my calls or emails concerning paperwork for my father and wanting to have a group call with an Elder Attorney and I haven't heard from her in over a week.

It makes no sense because I am in frequent contact with my dad and he is fine; I have been in ongoing contact with all his home therapy staff for the past few months; and I also recently spoke with his home occupational therapist that reassured me yesterday that he is doing well.

So, this phone call today is a bit of a surprise to me...

I checked in with my dad and his lady friend after hearing the voicemail my sister left and they both confirmed that everything is fine. 

I am trying to fathom what on possible earth could be so terrifyingly tumultuous that my sister is so worked up about it. But I also don't see why she can't just text me or call me to give me a quick overview before she has to leave for whatever she's doing.... Why would she leave a vague, panicked voicemail and say she needs to talk to me about our father, leave it on someone else's voicemail (my mother's voicemail), then say she "can't talk about it now because she's heading out..."? It's all very confusing. I am not sure what to think.

Is your sister prone to create DRAMA?  By DRAMA, I mean does she tend to BLOW situations out of proportion?  

[Alpacalia]

Just now, happyhorizons said:

Is your sister prone to create DRAMA?  By DRAMA, I mean does she tend to BLOW situations out of proportion?  

My sister has had a very rough past few years since her divorce from her husband a few years ago. She has engaged in a lot of high risk activities and was estranged from everyone (including her children) with the exception of friends she made after she moved and lived in Mexico following her marriage breakdown.

Nonetheless, I am just trying to make heads or tails of what that voicemail was about, since my ongoing communication with my father and my father's medical team reassures me that everything is in "stable" and "improving" mode.

[happyhorizons]

1 minute ago, Alpacalia said:

My sister has had a very rough past few years since her divorce from her husband a few years ago. She has engaged in a lot of high risk activities and was estranged from everyone (including her children) with the exception of friends she made after she moved and lived in Mexico following her marriage breakdown.

Nonetheless, I am just trying to make heads or tails of what that voicemail was about, since my ongoing communication with my father and my father's medical team reassures me that everything is in "stable" and "improving" mode.

I wonder if she THINKS his lady friend is manipulating him or something of the sort (terrible things are happening to him???).  

[Alpacalia]

2 minutes ago, happyhorizons said:

I wonder if she THINKS his lady friend is manipulating him or something of the sort (terrible things are happening to him???).  

I don't know and I don't know why my sister just wouldn't call me directly. Plus, his home occupational therapist was just with him yesterday and they both called me from his house and nothing was out of the ordinary. His home occupational therapist surely would have told me if his condition had deteriorated but she said how well he has been doing and she foresees him getting better each day.

[happyhorizons]

5 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

I don't know and I don't know why my sister just wouldn't call me directly. Plus, his home occupational therapist was just with him yesterday and they both called me from his house and nothing was out of the ordinary. His home occupational therapist surely would have told me if his condition had deteriorated but she said how well he has been doing and she foresees him getting better each day.

It is odd to say the least. Has it occurred to you that SHE (your sister) is doing this TO UPSET YOU for some reason?  

[Wiseman2]

Can you speak to your father directly rather than through his providers or your sister? Did your sister upset him or tell him you told her to F off?

The strain on your father caused by this sibling rivalry and war must be awful. Why not try to get organized and not escalate it? 

[Alpacalia]

4 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Can you speak to your father directly rather than through his providers or your sister? Did your sister upset him or tell him you told her to F off?

The strain on your father caused by this sibling rivalry and war must be awful. Why not try to get organized and not escalate it? 

I did speak to my father. I reached out after she left me that voicemail to make sure he was safe and okay. He said yes.

I speak with his providers because I have been coordinating from afar his ongoing health care needs and I also have to be in communication with them because they have been training me on certain exercises that I will need to do with my father when he comes to stay with me (i.e. physical therapy exercises, speech therapy exercises, etc.). It's a home health agency that I coordinated for him once he was discharged from the hospital last year.

I agree 100% with your last sentence. I had/have purposely refrained from sharing with my father anything with regard to my sister. I don't think that is something he needs to be worried about or deal with. My sister, has gone to him with her and our "problems" twice now which is not something that she needs not be doing and isn't helpful IMO.