suicide...selfish or not?

[lifeasiknowit]

I've been thinking about this a lot. I think everyone at some point in their life has contemplated suicide. For me, I think about it maybe once a week, just as a passing thought, but I've also told myself that suicide is selfish, because it would hurt my family and destroy them. But most people when they do commit suicide, I think are so consumed by their own pain, and their perceived inability to deal with it, that they don't even think about anyone else. Suicide, is when one's own pain overwhelms and is more than one's available support system and resources. I don't think we can judge a person for killing himself or herself. Does anyone think suicide is wrong?

 

I don't consider myself suicidal, but I have weird random thoughts sometimes. Like sometimes when I'm waiting at a crosswalk, I think about what would happen if I just walked into traffic, what that would feel like, but I would NEVER do something like that. Do other people have these kind of fleeting thoughts or am I just mentally disturbed?

[westernxer]

Do other people have these kind of fleeting thoughts or am I just mentally disturbed?

 

You're a weirdo, just like me. </snicker>

[lifeasiknowit]

Well, I think we're all weirdos. Most of us have the weirdo flag, it's just some actually show it, like you.

[Hot Coco]

I think we've ALL had thoughts like that. I know I have at various points in my life. I think it's normal.

[Nik2]

Lifeasiknowit:

It is what it is: call it what you want, "I call it misery".

Your not even close to being alone, I have been extremely depressed lately from a multitude of problems exist in my life (or possibly just one) that I have let gone too long. I have had social fear in certain situations for over 15 years and it’s runed my life. But I know see the problem which is the key.

Now I need to find out where this problem is is being feed from and what it likes to eat.

I’m seeing a psychologist tomorrow; maybe he can give me a different perspective on what I can’t see from the inside.

Like I said in another thread here, "A-must-have" book I think everyone should have it called As A Man Thinketh (You become what you think about)

Take a look here.

http://www.concentric.net/~conure/allen.html

I recommend seeing someone you sound depressed. Sometimes you can be depressed for so long that you begin to think it’s a normal way of feeling. I’ve made some great achievements in my life but I am very lonely and very unhappy. I want to do things but I don’t participate in social events because of anxiety.

But I’m on the road to finding out what feeds these feelings, you should too.

[Outcast]

Suicide, is when one's own pain overwhelms and is more than one's available support system and resources. I don't think we can judge a person for killing himself or herself.

 

Quite right. Depression blacks out all of life until all one can see is one's own misery. The rest of the world doesn't exist. In very sad cases, some people who commit suicide are convinced their loved ones would be better off without them!

 

I don't consider myself suicidal, but I have weird random thoughts sometimes. Like sometimes when I'm waiting at a crosswalk, I think about what would happen if I just walked into traffic, what that would feel like, but I would NEVER do something like that. Do other people have these kind of fleeting thoughts or am I just mentally disturbed?

 

Oh sure. When I was young and visiting relatives who lived near train tracks, I used to wonder how many times I could run across the track and back before the train came. High balconies sometimes make me feel like taking a leap - not to die but because the sensation would be sort of like flying. But of course Iknow the sensation would be followed by a much less pleasant one so I don't. I've heard plenty of people say similar things.

[TouchedSoul]

I think nearly all of us have had these thoughts one time or another in our lives. Having had a good friend take his own life, made me think many things.........but who are we to judge?

[glittergurl]

I thought about it a couple of times before; but never in a very serious way. More like "I hope it will make "them" feel super guilty after all the pain they've caused me!!!" lol **That was selfish** But yeah, I realized could have never done it; I love my family too much, and it would have killed my mom **that's when I thought beyond my selfishness**

 

I think it goes through everybody's mind at least once at some point.

 

It always reminds me of this quote I read once: "Suicide is the most sincere form of self-criticism." Hahha! I know it's not supposed to be funny, but that sh?t makes me laugh out loud each time I read it lol

[Hot Coco]

You have a weird sense of humor glitter!

[mini696]

I've always been in trouble with other peopl about my views on suicide. I believe it is a cheap and easy way to solve problems in life. I consider the person who commits it to be extremely selfish and self centered.

 

I've thought about it, but then I've also thought of a lot of other things but never gone through with any of them because its pretty much useless.

 

We are all weirdo's in some respect, I get called weird all the time by my ex's and friends. But I think of it as a good thing. Individual and the like.

[Outcast]

I consider the person who commits it to be extremely selfish and self centered

.

 

That's because you have never experienced depression. Get down on your knees and thank God for that and then learn compassion for those who have.

[bunnzy]

Suicide contemplation is very selfish.

When you are depressed your thought processes are very different to other peoples, you interpret events differently, are very harsh on yourself. You become sullen, withdrawn, snappish, Noone wants to hang out with you, friends don't want to listen to your self-pity. You feel alone and very very hurt.

 

It can build up to a loneliness and despair past a point where you just want relief. There are harder things than dying. Life is harder than death when you are feeling this way. You feel you are burdening everybody, you see only your faults, you make mistakes on purpose, you are unmotivated, sick and dangerous to yourself.

 

When it got to this point for me earlier this year, i realised i had to get couselling or i would end up dead or hospitalised.

 

It was so hard. The hardest thing i have ever done, and its not over yet, i still dont feel 100% happy. But life is worth it, there is love, there is people who care about me, there is more important things than my own happiness, there are many lifes i can touch and change.

 

And because of my experience i now have empathy towards others suffering from the same depths of depression. Because ive been there.

[lifeasiknowit]

I know in Japan, historically speaking, warriors rather than facing the humiliation of losing in battle, disemboweled themselves with their swords. Something to do with honour, and they weren't afraid of death. But that's different.

 

I'm not being completely honest, when I say I haven't been suicidal. It is sometimes more than just random passing thoughts. I won't buy sleeping pills to help with my insomnia because I'm afraid of what I would do with them if I ever had one of those moments. It shows that I'm not 100% sure and that I don't completely trust myself.

 

Depression is annoying because it's a vicious cycle. When I'm depressed I hate being around other people, because it means that I have to pretend that I'm not depressed. I'm good at that. People don't like being around depressed people. But then I get more depressed because I hate being alone.

 

Nik2: I recommend seeing someone you sound depressed. Sometimes you can be depressed for so long that you begin to think it’s a normal way of feeling.

 

I've thought about seeing a counsellor at my university. I hope you get a good therapist, I hear that that's the hardest part, finding the right therapist.

 

"Suicide is the most sincere form of self-criticism."

 

Glittergurl: you're not the only one that thinks that's hilarious. It's so weird and obvious it's funny.

 

I don't totally consider suicide selfish, because I think when a person has reached that point, he has lost himself already, so there is barely a self to save. Also at that point any rationality and decision making ability goes down the drain, so it's more than just about self centeredness. Most people who commit suicide, I think don't want to die, but see that as their only option out of their pain. If they were made to realize at that moment that there are other options available, then they wouldn't.

 

What do you all think of euthanaisa? I find it strange that we put down dogs, cats, horses because it's the humane thing to do, but we don't do the same for humans. If a person is allowed dignity in life, why shouldn't he/she be allowed dignity in death?

[bunnzy]

I do not approve of euthanasia just because noone wants the animal, but it is acceptable if the animal is really suffering and there is no chance of survival. I do not think euthanasia for people is right. I do not agree with abortion either, they are both murder in my eyes.

 

It is disturbing you are bringing up euthanasia on a thread about suicide.

 

Please read Feeling Good; the New Mood Therapy, its foun on amazon and in any good bookshop and find a cognitive behavoural therapist. Only they can provide you with the help you need to alter the way you think, and help you to become healthy and sane...

[lifeasiknowit]

Just because someone is depressed doesn't make them insane. In fact, I think someone who is always happy is not completely sane to not be conscious of all the crap that exists in the world. I'm not even going to touch the abortion issue, because it's such a sensitive issue and most people when discussing it never really try to understand the other side, no matter what side they are on.

 

I only agree with euthanasia if the person is suffering physically and only if it is extreme and if they are conscious of what they want. I'm probably offending many people, saying this, but that's what I believe. I don't believe in killing oneself, because of depression or feelings of being overwhelmed, but I'm not here to judge other people, and don't for it.

 

I'm also reminded of this pro-life, pro choice debate at my university last year. This one student in my Women's Studies class who is male, Jewish and pro choice was appalled by the professor debating for the pro-life side. This professor compared abortion to the holocaust. Also the pro-life group at my U, posted up graphic disturbing images of dead babies all over our campus.

 

bunnzy, if you believe euthanasia is ok for animals that are suffering, why not humans? Is it because human life is more valuable? I respect life just as much as the next person.

[lifeasiknowit]

Ok, I said I wouldn't take a position on abortion, but I can't help it, even thought this is the wrong thread to discuss it. But since you brought it up, I do believe in abortion as an option. I believe women should have the option. There are parts of the world where contraception, birth control is not available, and abstinence is the only option. But that's unrealistic. People are going to have sex. Also in some places, women are most often single mothers, living in poverty. If a person fights for the babies lives in utero, then how about the child's life once he/she is born? Sometimes, there aren't the social structures, programs there to fight for a decent life for the baby once it's born. Not all women will choose abortion, but it should be an option.

 

" It must be pointed out that our society, so concerned to defend the rights of the embryo, shows no interest in the children once they are born; it prosecutes te abortionists instead of undertaking to reform that scandalous institution known as "public assistance" -Beauvoir

[Outcast]

Just because someone is depressed doesn't make them insane

 

Nobody said depressed people were 'insane'. That's really an archaic term. The fact is that depression prevents people from thinking straight. It's an illness of the brain and the brain is just another hunk of meat in your body prone to sickness as is a heart, liver, or pancreas.

[lifeasiknowit]

bunnzy:

Please read Feeling Good; the New Mood Therapy, its foun on amazon and in any good bookshop and find a cognitive behavoural therapist. Only they can provide you with the help you need to alter the way you think, and help you to become healthy and sane...

 

I know bunnzy is trying to help and I appreciate it, but it doesn't help by implying that I'm not sane.

[lindya]

I think it's entirely normal for people to have thoughts of ending their lives when things get difficult. The more serious they are about doing so, the more they clearly feel trapped in an impossible situation. I know someone who did this (frighteningly, more and more people I know seem to know someone who's done it).

 

This guy was an ultra high-achiever. The type who would judge himself unmercifully for the tiniest misdemeanours, yet seemed to have limitless compassion for others. I have absolutely no doubt that due to his professional success, the people he was surrounded by latterly formed part of the smug, "anyone who's suicidal is weak and selfish" brigade. No wonder he never spoke to anyone about how he was feeling.

 

It's only by admitting to suicidal ideation that someone who's really far gone stands a chance of beating it. People who don't talk about these things start feeling so trapped and overwhelmed by the secret of their suicide plan that it turns into an obsession. Unfortunately, there is never any shortage of smug preach-merchants who inhibit people from talking about this sensitive subject. eg

 

I've always been in trouble with other peopl about my views on suicide. I believe it is a cheap and easy way to solve problems in life. I consider the person who commits it to be extremely selfish and self centered.

 

 

That's exactly the sort of mindless yammering that effectively places a gag on those who might stand a chance of getting through their suicidal feelings if only they had someone they could talk them through with.

[scobro]

I think most people have these type of weird thoughts but would never act on them.I sometimes will be talking with someone and as they are talking and I am listening I think to myself"I could sucker punch this person right in the face as hard as I could and they would never see it coming":eek:Stupid yes would I do it no.

[scobro]

I think most people have these type of weird thoughts but would never act on them.I sometimes will be talking with someone and as they are talking and I am listening I think to myself"I could sucker punch this person right in the face as hard as I could and they would never see it coming":eek:Stupid yes would I do it no.

[newbby]

suicide is not selfish because the suicidal person believes that people are better off without them. people who are suicidal really cannot see that the loss of them could effect anybody very badly.

[newbby]

lol scobro, i think things like that too!

 

feeling suicidal is quite different than having fleeting thoughts though. i also agree that sometimes people have been suicidal for so long, that they dont view it as abnormal anymore. people themselves would know though, whether they were actually suicidal or just have a habit of thinking about it. you have to be very depressed to actually do it. thats the thing with depression, people compare it all the time, so somebody who has been suicidal before and pulled themselves up, then they think anybody who doesnt get themselves through it is selfish and weak. whereas the person who actually kills themselves will be experiencing a far greater depression than the briefly suicidal person could even imagine. it reminds me of the hunter s thompson quote~the edge there is no honest way to explain it, because the only ones who really know, are the ones who have gone over.

[pearlsasinger]

Lately I've had thoughts, not neccesarily of suicide, but thoughts of not living anymore...scenarios in which I would die, but not where I take my own life. I imagine getting hit by a car or falling down the stairs or getting some life threatening illness and dying.

 

I think of this rather than killing myself because I know I couldn't kill myself. I've never thought about dying this much and it's weird. I think it's common to have these thoughts when under extreme stress or when depressed.

 

I don't really want to die, I don't think most who have these thoughts actually want them to become the reality. But we daydream about it because it would be so easy.

[a4a]

This thread, for some darn reason, is bringing a visual of Leaping Lemmings!

I think considering death and suicide is a normal part of thinking for everyone, not just us insane people!

 

Euthanasia does exist for terminal humans in the USA..... it is usually done quietly with an OD of pain meds. (I won't get into a debate, but many people wish to end their suffering...... that is not selfish, it should be a right)

 

And to make a point about euthanasia of "unwanted animals" you certainly cannot hold a grudge against those the perform animal euthanasia?

 

a4a