Kengne Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 I never really imagined I'd be hear posting in this neck of the woods... but here I am! For those of you who don't know my story - you can find the details in the Breaking Up forum entitled "Why does it hurt so much? Please help!" In any case... here's a quick summary: My ex-bf R of 5 mths broke it off with me on Oct 19th... stating he needed time alone to work on issues with him, that he couldn't give me his 100%, his all in the rel'ship and he needed to figure out why, and needed to do this on his own as opposed to within the rel'ship... he said he still cared alot abt me, still wanted to be with me and was open to the possibility of reconciliation down the road but he needed to be alone - RIGHT NOW. He assured me there was no one else in the picture, and that he did not intend to date ANYONE (whereas I told him, and did began dating other ppl right away). And of course - he also said he still wanted to be friends with me. Initially I didn't take the break-up well at all. The first few days I was very mad at him because I did not understand WHAT these "issues" were that he needed to work on alone - and he couldn't really explain, as he himself did not seem to understand! He just said he needed time alone to clear his head & get focused I guess. Now right before our break-up I HAD noticed he'd been flying off the handle QUITE often, and he did have some work-related stress (he lost a contract)... so after a weekend of discussion getting absolutely no where to understanding his decision... I decided to let it go. Fastfwd these past few weeks - we have basically been in LITTLE to NO CONTACT, esp during the last 2 weeks. We have spoken on 2 occasions – both times initiated by him. The most recent time was this weekend: he asked to see me in person. I relucatantly agreed. At this point we haven’t seen each other since BEFORE our break-up. Anyways… he came down this Sunday. He started off by saying how he wanted to come clean bcuz he hadnt been COMPLETELY honest about the circumstances surrounding our breakup. Internally I was furious, but I kept a cool face. I asked him, AGAIN - to just be straight with me!! WAS there a 3rd party involved? To which he paused and then answered "Yes. Sort of." He then paused again and said "It's difficult... it's not just abt the 3rd person. I just felt our rel'ship was too crowded -" I just cut him off and said "SO who is it R??" He then turned to me, looked me straight in the eye and said "It's M." M = MY EXBOYFRIEND of 4 YEARS, the CHEATER I said "Excuse me? M" and he said "Yes." So then I said "No, LET ME clarify. I'm asking who is the 3rd person, that you had feelings for and were busy taking time out to clarify your feelings.. who is THAT person?" He then re-stated "I know what you're trying to say, and again that's NOT the case. The third person I'm talking abt is M." Sheer & utter shock. He then started talking... ALOT was said but the gist of it is as follows: From Day 1... he's always questioned me regarding my feelings for my ex M. He has questioned me several times abt whether or not I had unresolved feelings for M. R and I got together abt 3 mths after the end of my 4 yr rel'ship with M. R says that during the course of our rel'ship, esp the last few weeks he always felt like there was 3 ppl in our rel;ship - Me, R and M. And R said he felt, OVERWHELIMGLY SO, that he was "the 3rd wheel", the outsider, the sore thumb. He didnt and doesn't understand why M continued to creep back into my life, as we alternate b/t periods of C & NC. He then started listing a series of events surrounding M that just made him become even more & more frustrated with our rel'ship... i.e. our NUMEROUS fights (b.t M and me) regarding our 'friendship' (M still has feelings for me and wants to be more than friends)... me writing M an "I Miss You" letter after 1.5 mths of NC (our longest period of NC EVER!)... me visiting & hanging out w M.. me spending time w M and the BABY he had with a girl he CHEATED on me with... guys the list goes ON and ON... alot of it is ridiculous & I have ceased trying to explain to my friends why I still feel the need or desire to have M in my life.. So anyways... R told me how he didn't understand why I could not or would not let go of M, esp. after M had repeatedly asked me to stop contacting him - but I still did. R told me he saw all these things happening, and the frustration & resentment towards M and me just built up within him. He felt like he already pointed out to me that he was not cool abt me & M's friendship (WHICH I MUST ADMIT HE DID SEVERAL TIMES ), but since I made no effort to end the friendship & always tried to justify it with "Oh M has been there for me all my adult life... I care abt him etc ...".. and displayed this alleged NEED to talk to M (even after he told me Not to contact him)…or run to M when I have a problem (as opposed to R)… he felt it was pointless to talk to me abt M, as it wouldn’t have a made a difference. So he said nothing… his frustration grew internally, and he started flying off the handle at all sorts of things e.g. me not calling him, or answering phone calls etc…He said nothing, bcuz he felt he couldn’t talk to me as far as M was concerned, since I had him ‘allegedly’ on this pedestal. He felt like he couldn’t come to me and say “Kengne, your rel’ship w M is unhealthy for you and for our rel’ship – please stop talking to M.” That’s the gist of it. I tried to counter back with “But you still talk to your ex gf N!” (WHICH HAS NEVER BOTHERED ME)… and he of course was quick to tell me, as is true, the situtation is different. 1) He wasn’t in love with her 2) They ended on amicable terms…. No cheating…… and 3) unlike M he said, his ex N is not calling him down professing her undying love for R, nor asking to get back with R. So yes – their friendship is different. So basically this explained… to me… the withdrawal I had noticed from R in the last few weeks. He said the frustration just grew to the point where he knew if left unchecked, it would’ve ruined our rel’ship and he didnt want that. He felt that the only way he could deal with his frustration & sort out his feelings was to take a time out. He said, as he said before, that he didn’t WANT the breakup but he felt he NEEDED it – to be alone & clear his thts & get to the bottom of his frustration & resentment etc... And since neither of us believe in “breaks” he felt the only option was to break up. He did mention to me how very hurt he was also… when he asked for time alone to sort out his feelings/issues etc… how I wouldn’t be friends with him… we barely spoke these last few weeks… but yet after ALL that M did to me… I was willing to be friends with M, and he felt that it was unfair bcuz he hadn’t done anything wrong…other than ask for time alone (WHICH I GAVE). But as he said to me when we broke up, he didn’t stop wanting to be with me. He said his feelings for me have grown deeper… and that I’m a very special person to him…and that he missed me … and he basically wants us to work things out. I.e. start from scratch… get to know one another again… hang out…. Enjoy each other’s company… date… and hopefully be more, and better than friends… and better than before. He said like he said before, that he still feels there is so much potential for us… and he wants us to work things out. Basically… he wants us to start over… he wants a second chance.I was speechless. He said he understood that I couldn’t give him an answer right now… and that he’s sorry beyond sorry for hurting me… but that he didn’t know how else to deal with the frustration that was mounting within him… he said he just NEEDED to do this.. NEEDED to be alone… he thanked me OVER AND OVER for giving him his space, and said that he understand I need space now to make my decision… i.e. as to whether there’s hope for us, or if its completely over for me… he asked me if I still had feelings for him, as he said I’d been so cold to him these last few weeks (EG by GIVING HIM SPACE and doing NC)… I didn’t lie. I told him I still have feelings for him… but I am confused… and hurt… by his actions. I do understand with regards to M (EVERYONE HAS BEEN TELLING ME I SHOULD STOP TALKING TO M, as it WOULD RUIN ANY NEW RELSHIPS – AND LOOK WHAT HAPPENED!) I just feel so.. overwhelmed. To know that I’ve been going through pain these last few weeks… bcuz of my ex M!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH Right now I don’t know what the hell I am going to do. This is what I wanted, but not how I expected. I would’ve NEVER EVER EVER guessed in a million years that his needing time alone to deal with his issues - had to do w M, even tho my friends & family HAD WARNED ME before that it was only a matter of time before my SUPPOSED ‘unresolved’ feelings for M, or M himself – would become an issue in R and I’s rel’ship. I am just at a total loss. I asked R for time… time to sort things out with myself, and make a decision. He says he understands, and that its NOT in his control but that he will give me the time I need. He asked me again last night if I feel its completely over for us, and I told him No. Right now I just don’t know. Basically I am asking those who have started over... given someone a 2nd chance... can it work? DOES it work? HOW do you do that? How do you start over? How do you get past the feelings of hurt from the breakup? How do you trust again? I told him last night that I didn't trust him i.e. 1) to be UPFRONT with me if smth is bothering him (and he agreed that is a weakness of his that he is willing, and needs to work on)... and perhaps more imptly to ME that 2) I didn't trust him to not hurt me again (which NEITHER of us can guarantee, but he apologized again for hurting me). I feel emotionally & mentally distant from him. It was sooooooooooo hard... but I saw our breakup as final - FINAL! I had stopped thinking abt us getting back together and was moving on with my life e.g dating other ppl (which he is not happy with, but understand I AM doing it and will continue to do so). He on the other hand said for him it wasn't COMPLETELY over, but other than put the rel'ship 'on hold' or 'take a break' (WHICH I DONT DO) - he felt there was no other option than to break up officially. He claims I pushed him to it by stating "So what are you saying? Is it over?" to which he said "Yes - for now." SO WHAT HAPPENS NOW? Any thts/advice greatly appreciated…. !!!!!! HELP! K. Link to post Share on other sites
seachange Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 Kengne - I know you said you're sick of explaining why you still want M in your life. Even after all this, and what R said about how it was tearing him apart, it doesn't sound like you're reconsidering that. You still chose M over him. Why? I think if you do want to reconcile with R, that's still going to be a central issue. You'll have to make a decision. I don't know what you get out of staying in contact with M, but is it worth this? You're asking how you can trust R again. But I think he probably did the right thing - how is he not trustworthy??? He was troubled and hurt, he tried to talk to you about it, and you basically shut him down. So he needed time to figure it out. You didn't give him the "break" option, and he's right to wonder why you wouldn't be friends with him when you'd do that for this guy who treated you like crap. I'd be hurt and confused too. Frankly, I think it's pretty amazing that he's coming to you, willing to trust you again. You're worried about trusting him - not because he did anything untrustworthy, but because you're bringing baggage from an earlier relationship to bear on him. Believe me, I know how it is - once you've been cheated on, you're always wondering in future relationships when that third party is going to pop up. But that's not fair to the new guy. Honestly, it sounds to me like you aren't that into R anyway. It really sounds like you're still hung up on your other ex, and meanwhile you're dating other people, and with all of that R doesn't really seem like a priority in your life - except that your ego was bruised when he broke up with you (probably because you were still smarting from having been cheated on earlier, which is totally understandable). It doesn't sound like your pain was about losing R in particular, though. So, seriously, now - do you really want him back? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Kengne Posted November 15, 2005 Author Share Posted November 15, 2005 Kengne - I know you said you're sick of explaining why you still want M in your life. Even after all this, and what R said about how it was tearing him apart, it doesn't sound like you're reconsidering that. You still chose M over him. Why? First of all - seachange, THANK YOU for responding. I've been going crazy looking for an outside perspective, as I am NOT talking abt this new development w R w ANY of my friends. Ever since the breakup I have adopted the stance to no longer discuss my personal life with them... they mean well, but I tend to oversolicit their opinions so it's best if I don't solicit at all - for NOW. To answer YOUR question... In MY MIND i.e. what I've been telling myself & everyone else ... is that I want M in my life because he's been there for me. As R said... this has been my "cover" story from DAY 1 which I stuck to. However... after thinking abt it these last few days.. talking to my sister & mother ... and M himself... I believe now that I have been holding onto M to subconsciously punish him. Punish him for what he put me through. And I am simply... ASHAMED. I don't know why I didn't see this before. It's been going on for more than 8 mths now! Immediately after we broke up .. I noticed that I really wasnt angry at M. I was relieved (bcuz I knew the relship was going NOWHERE)... and upset...but not terribly angry at the end. I just felt like FINE... He cheated, now I can exit the rel'ship and move on with my life. If I had not found out abt the cheating... I dont think I would've EVER left, even tho I was VERY unhappy. I LOVED HIM!! But abt 3 wks after I ended things I ALSO FINALLY made the decision to NOT get back together with M. I know I deserve better. This was abt 2 weeks before I met R. I guess once I made the decision to NOT get back w M ... and we decided to be friends.. is when M's "punishment" unintentionally began. I.e. he could have me in his life as a friend, BUT NOTHING MORE. He could not HAVE me! I didn't expect the "punishment" to drag out this long as I always expected M to move on quickly... find a girl (he's REAL good at that!)... lose feelings for me etc... and then we could be friends right? But that still has not happened. M is still in love with me... and I have subconsciouslyt been feeding off it it... staying in contact w him even after he asked me to stop, so that he can move on with his life and get over me!! (HOW SELFISH IS THAT? GUYS I"M SO ASHAMED! " I always told myself - I'm the bigger person. Look, I still want to be friends after ALL what you did to me... and now you cant be friends with me bcuz you love me? I accused M of being selfish - when I see now that all he wants to do is move on with his life. I have been very selfish - because I felt hurt, and I guesss this was my way of hurting him back. But what hurts even more is that in the midst of this.. R has been dragged into it. And I'm just so sorry & terribly confused. I think if you do want to reconcile with R, that's still going to be a central issue. You'll have to make a decision. I don't know what you get out of staying in contact with M, but is it worth this? NO it is not worth it. What I went through these last few weeks... BECAUSE OF M - is NOT WORTH IT!! You're asking how you can trust R again. But I think he probably did the right thing - how is he not trustworthy??? He was troubled and hurt, he tried to talk to you about it, and you basically shut him down. So he needed time to figure it out. You didn't give him the "break" option, and he's right to wonder why you wouldn't be friends with him when you'd do that for this guy who treated you like crap. I'd be hurt and confused too. Frankly, I think it's pretty amazing that he's coming to you, willing to trust you again. You are so right... and there is absolutely nothing I can say. You're completely RIGHT! You're worried about trusting him - not because he did anything untrustworthy, but because you're bringing baggage from an earlier relationship to bear on him. Believe me, I know how it is - once you've been cheated on, you're always wondering in future relationships when that third party is going to pop up. But that's not fair to the new guy. I know I have alot of trust issues - and I am trying day by day to deal with them. And it's not fair to R. As my sister said - I have put him thru the wringer - and I'm sorry!!!! Honestly, it sounds to me like you aren't that into R anyway. It really sounds like you're still hung up on your other ex, and meanwhile you're dating other people, and with all of that R doesn't really seem like a priority in your life - except that your ego was bruised when he broke up with you (probably because you were still smarting from having been cheated on earlier, which is totally understandable). It doesn't sound like your pain was about losing R in particular, though. So, seriously, now - do you really want him back? YES. YES. YES My relationship w R... was perhaps the healthiest relationship I have EVER had to date. I was open with him in ways I never was before, not even with my ex M! But more than anything ... I just have this feeling that there is so much potential there... so much! And of course I do still have feelings for him. All I can say is I've been very blind... blindly selfish... and I want to make things different this time around... I want to take things MUCH slower bcuz looking back I DO think I rushed into the rel'ship... he was the one that pushed to make it official... and I went with the flow when perhaps I should have slowed down... More than anything - I just dont want to get hurt all over again! I am so afraid of trusting... and caring deeply for R... like I did for M... and then WHAP! getting hurt - AGAIN. K. Link to post Share on other sites
seachange Posted November 16, 2005 Share Posted November 16, 2005 Wow. I want to tell you, I'm impressed - I think you're really onto something here: I believe now that I have been holding onto M to subconsciously punish him. Punish him for what he put me through. This was abt 2 weeks before I met R. I guess once I made the decision to NOT get back w M ... and we decided to be friends.. is when M's "punishment" unintentionally began. I.e. he could have me in his life as a friend, BUT NOTHING MORE. He could not HAVE me! That makes a lot of sense. And it takes a lot of courage to admit it, too. Maybe it was too soon to have a relationship, a few weeks after you broke up with someone who hurt you so deeply - but you got lucky...R. sounds like a really good (and patient) guy, and he obviously cares a lot about you. I think you're right that going slow right now is probably a very good idea; it can take a while to ease away all that mistrust and pain (although calling it for what it is is a HUGE step!). But R. sounds like he wants to work on this with you, and I think the best gift you could give him would be to share some of your revelations about M. with him. I'm sure he would be happy and relieved to finally understand what it was all about. I wish you lots of luck, and most of all, I hope you regain the ability to trust. It's always a gamble, but I still like to think it's worth it. Scratch that - I do think it's worth it. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Kengne Posted November 20, 2005 Author Share Posted November 20, 2005 UPDATE: So here's the update. I finally spoke with R this past thursday night. I'd been doing alot of soul-searching, and decide to share my revelations with him. SO at the beginning of the conversation I launched into my revelations. The gist of what I said initially was as follows: I told him I finally realized that I'd been 'holding on' to M to subconsciously punish him.. I told R how I'd made the decision to never be w M after what he did to me... but a part of me seeking revenge felt like M could have me (in his life as a FRIEND) but he could not HAVE me the way he wanted (i.e. as a girlfriend)... I told him how I was ashamed at myself... and that all the time I was doing this I always wondered why I wasn't angry at M for what he did to me... I told R how I'm an eye for an eye, tooth for tooth person and I guess our 'friendship' was the eye in exhcange for the one M gave me when HE CHEATED! I also then launched into how I know I hurt R... and that I was soo soo sorry... but bcuz I was so caught up in what I was doing and didn't CONSCIOUSLY see anything wrong with me and M's friendship... I was somewhat oblivious to R's feelings etc.. and for that I'm sorry... At this pt -> R somewhat cut me off with one simply question (that turned into the SPanish Inquisition) -> WHY? WHY was I realizing all of this now? HOW come I didn't realize this BACK THEN, when he was TELLING me subtly that he had a problem w me and M's friendship? WHY couldn't I have seen his P.o.V.? HOW could I not have seen his P.o.V.? WHAT HAPPENED to make me see it now, All of a Sudden? And HOW would I have felt if the situation had been reversed, and it was N calling him down..saying she wanted to marry him.. yada yada yada? Ppl... I was just, FLABBERGASTED. Speechless. For a few mins I couldnt speak. I asnwered his last question with "well if the situation had been reversed I prolly would've been upset and hurt too, and wondered why the hell was she still in your life?" He was silent. He then launched into asking more questions, abt WHAT made me come to my realization, and why didn't I realize it before? I told him that after internal soul searching... and speaking objectively abt the situation w my sister... *i didnt wanna mention the website!! lol*... the revoelations came to me... and that I wasn't able to before bcuz for me... at times... I find it EXTREMEMLY difficult to step outside of myself, and view the situation from another person's shoes...ESP if I see NOTHING WRONG with what I'm doing... and at the time I really didnt see ANYTHING WRONG... and thus I was oblivious to what R was saying and feeling...and I'm sorry... and I KNOW it's smth I need to work on, and AM working on... no one is perfect... but it was NOT my intent to MALICIOUSLY hurt him AT ALL... and that if i'd been AWARE of the effect M was having on our rel'ship... I would have severed ties w him back then, PERMANENTLY... I would NEVER have WILLING & INTENTIONALLY jeopardized our rel'ship!! AND THEN I TOLD HIM I WAS NO LONGER TALKING TO M. THAT IT WAS UNHEALTHY FOR ME, AND FOR M AND THAT HE NEEDED TO MOVE ON W HIS LIFE... AND SO DID I. R asked me how M took that, and I told him M was OK (which he wasn't). Then R said he heard what I was saying, but he stilll couldnt really understand why I hadn't "HEARD" him then... but how I "HEARD" him NOW... AFTER talking w my sis!... he even went on to say how he found it frustrating that even AFTER we broke up... I was still in contact w M to the point that I went CRYING to him abt my breakup with R.. ! **** PPL - this info accidentally slipped out on Sunday nite when we last spoke - WHY did I tell him?!!*** ... R then went on to say how he couldnt understand how I could;ve possibly gone to M... after EVERYTHING he did to me and how he treated me like crap... and ESP when I have so many other friends I could've gone to! Again I was speechless. R made another comment along the lines of even after our breakup... he still felt frustrated bcuz he still sort of felt like the 3rd wheel... At this pt I tried to steer back control of the conversation... cuz I felt just... AWFUL... so I launched into well,....having had time to think... I was ready to 'start over' from scratch etc... and asked him if he was ? He answered (hesitantly IMO)... that yeah, we could start over from scratch...as friends first... and just take it slow. BUT By this point in the convo I felt he was LESS enthusiastic than on Sunday - and rightly so! *he said he tht I was overreacting/overanalyzing)... I mean he'd had time to mull over my sunday comment abt how I went crying to M when we broke up... I called him up on it, and he said that yes he HAD been bothered by that... and he'd been thinking these last few days... and he did feel aways... but he also said it wasn't permanent... but wouldnt go away overnight, but that it was NOT stopping him from wanting to TRY OVER again. This is the condensed version... bcuz in between that I did alot of PUSHING and QUESTIONING *I KNOW BAD BAD! * ... bcuz frankly, I was a little ticked off that he wasnt jumping for joy abt me coming back! I told my sister abt it and she gave me an analogy which went smth like this..." K.... you stabbed the man over and over... repeatedly... and then you turn around and ask to marry him! UHM HELLO - he's bleeding! He needs to heal... and you would rather just stick a band aid on him, call it day and get married"I It's true! I'm sooo impatient at times.. I want what I want when I want it:p ... and when I don't get the reaction I expect... it literally PISSES me off...again... my poor ability to look OUTSIDE of myself and look at a situation from his P.o.V... made me get frustrated...and hindered my ability to understand why RIGHTLY SO... he is cautious abt 'us'... abt getting hurt again. At the end of the convo... I was feeling MIGHTY unsure abt things, and struggling to hide it. But I couldnt help but ask... " R... you asked me the other night is it completely over between us. I'm going to ask you that same thing now. Is it" His exact words "No, I don't think it's completely over". *small sigh of relief from me* We then got off the phone cuz it was late, and we'd been talking for close to 2 hrs. But the crazy V in me came out... and I called him back to ask him smth silly. He called back a few mins later... I asked him the silly question... and then got silent and said "R... I just want to know... do you want to work things out?" And he said "Yes, I would like to." I dunno if i'm reading too much into it bcuz of my paranoia dna not getting the reaction from him that I expected... but at the end of the convo i felt pretty unsure. Talked to my sis abt it and she is telling me to RELAX! CHILL! Give him time to heal. It's not gonna happen overnight. OH I also forgot - he also DID ask me during the conversation abt the ppl I was dating etc... twice... But I was so annoyed at him for not reacting as ethusiastically as I expected, so I brushed the questions off with "I dont feel like talking abt it rite now". HE asked if I would talk abt it later and I said maybe. SO as we stand now... I guess we're starting from scratch. GOSH this is so hard! K. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Kengne Posted November 20, 2005 Author Share Posted November 20, 2005 This is the 2nd part of the update. For the 1st time since our breakup we hung out on Fri. Watched a comedy movie at his house. It was nice, but a lil bit awkard. There was NO physicality AT ALL - not even a hug! A part of me was annoyed at that, another part of me was glad. I feel like we're in limbo, but after all - like he said, we're 'taking things slow'. This post is more of a rant than an update. Well, not exactly a rant bcuz I'm not mad... just feeling reflective. SO the facts that are known: 1) I care alot abt R. 2) I hurt R alot by not letting go of M 3) I'm truly truly sorry for hurting R 4)It was not my intention to hurt R and 5) I believe that R cares alot abt me - I think. Right now my mind is just numb. I am going with the flow - neither here nor there. Trying not to think of the past, nor the future. Just focusing STRICTLY on the present. I fell off a bit when R told me he wanted to work things out last Sunday... and I am now gettin' back on track to where I want to be i.e. WHOLEY and COMPLETELY healed. Someone told me today that hurt is caused by someone's actions... but pain is when you don't let go of the hurt. I am trying desperately hard to let go of ALL the hurt... from my past rel'ship with M... to the more recent past rel'ship w R... I cannot predict or control the future, but I can focus on ME. I"M GOING ON VACATION NEXT WEEK! I'm so excited. . I'm visiting my friend J. We had a falling out a few weeks ago... didnt speak for a MONTH - then he called me up out of the blue and we started talking again in Nov... and now come end of Nov, I will be visiting him for his b-day!! Havnt seen him 3 yrs so this should be interesting. I wonder if he even still looks the same? I haven't exactly told R or ANY of my other friends abt this upcoming trip. I sort of just want to disappear, and get away from the negative headspace of these last few weeks... I need a break from it all... so I can have a fresh start with EVERYTHING come early december when I return... Stay safe y'all! K. Link to post Share on other sites
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