ReluctantRomeo Posted November 18, 2005 Share Posted November 18, 2005 OMG, RR. You nailed it on the head there. How I wish my exhusband could read that. He still doesn't understand....... That sucks. I'm sorry to hear it Link to post Share on other sites
Mz. Pixie Posted November 18, 2005 Share Posted November 18, 2005 While I tried explaining it to him, he still hates me. Link to post Share on other sites
Author trickynj99 Posted November 21, 2005 Author Share Posted November 21, 2005 well we made it through the weekend and just to prove that just because i'm a poster here and everything is from my side --i'm anything but perfect!!!! or i wouldnt be in this mess... saturday, she left her email account up on the computer...i looked at it..in hindsight, i didnt have the right to do that and i saw lots of posts of her to her friends etc...i didnt like what i read, including some comments that made me think she might be seeing somebody(they were very obscure comments..not hey i'm seeing this guy) ...of course i confronted her ---and of course she denied it--- and of course she FREAKED that i looked at her email.. what a mess ...so over the course of the day i finally decided to send about a 5 page email that i thought laid it out on the line, it was very rough on her and rough on me too. bottom line i expressed that i thought she was laying OUR problems all ON me, that i wanted to go to therapy, that she had major issues herself and one of OUR problems was that our marriage had become about HER problems, and i really laid into her mom and wrote the killer that it would be a shame if after all these years of her mom trying to control her, that her mom would basically get her way not proud of it, thats what i did...here's the thing...sat nite we stayed up and just talked..and it was like having my wife back for a nite..she was angry and hurt but was dealing with us and i could tell that she didnt realize how far she was pushing me away and that alot of this separation stuff(IN HER MIND) was not about breaking up but about taking a time out. here what i'm saying, maybe for the first time since this spring i was talking to the woman i fell in love with and i could just tell she still has feelings for me..we actually had a laugh together about how hard this is on both of us now i'm not a fool, we have a long way to go, and we didnt solve anything, we are still planning to separate, but in honesty if things actually start to improve from here, who knows and that hope will get me thru the holidays.. somehow i feel more ok with that decision i also know that some of you will say...DUDE!!!! wake up, she is seeing somebody and you caught her so she is playing nice to get you off the trail... time will tell, but for now i choose to beleive her. thnx for listening Link to post Share on other sites
ReluctantRomeo Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Good call - at least you're getting your issues out into the open. Next time though, a 1 page email will do. 5 pages seems overkill to me... Link to post Share on other sites
Mz. Pixie Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 They are usually very defensive when caught though Tricky. They try to turn it back on the other person about the privacy and such. When I was cheating and my husband accessed my phone records, I did the same thing. Link to post Share on other sites
bkz Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 i also know that some of you will say...DUDE!!!! wake up, she is seeing somebody and you caught her so she is playing nice to get you off the trail... time will tell, but for now i choose to beleive her. thnx for listening See here I go being the optomist again but..... I would have to believe her too. Id like to think your right and she does still have feelings for you and that your talk on Sat. night was a step in the right direction for the healing prosess to start. Either way its nice you two had a good talk and it helped you even if just temporarely feel closer to your wife. Again the optomists' veiw. Link to post Share on other sites
Author trickynj99 Posted November 21, 2005 Author Share Posted November 21, 2005 thnx all yeah im an optimist and i'm a bit wordy in my last gasp letters!! i really do beleive her, but i know alot of you all faced similar stuff and found out some hard truths Link to post Share on other sites
Author trickynj99 Posted December 2, 2005 Author Share Posted December 2, 2005 well i read through my own thread and i hate the title but its interesting to watch yourself implode on a message board..back and forth i go blah blah blah for months and months my wife tells me she's lost/alone/feels nothing for me what do i do??? i try everything, my entire 24/7 life is waiting on her needs, nothing works for years and years prior, my wife was lost/alone/feels nothing for me... its just i don't know it, or somehow i magically do know but i deny it.. what do i do?? i've been thinking about that and what i did was try everything...my entire 24/7 life was waiting on what i thought were her needs..guess what it didnt work...hmmm what's wrong with this picture??? and the coup de grace, she wants me to move out of our house, for an indefinite period time, leave the kids with her, but wait !!! not yet!!! only after the holidays cuz she is having XMAS for her family, then i'm allowed to go and i should wait by the phone for her to "Decide" what she wants to do... for a week? a month? 6 months? she can't say!!.. she knows i'll do anything she wants, she's learned this because that's what i did. over the last 2 weeks its been the realization that now I HAVE PRETTY MUCH GIVEN UP, that has caused me so much pain and guilt..I don't want to be married to her...there i said it...i almost can't beleive i'm saying it...all the whining and rationalization, all the blame i gladly took to make her feel better, my begging her to love me(how pathetic), all the incredibly outrageous demands she puts on me, i'm like a fricking puppy dog... i know know...you're gonna say don't tell me..tell her!!!!...don't post it in a message board...well sorry thats just the way i do things..i gotta practice, get up the nerve and let it rip. i really have been the number 2 in this marriage and the realization to me has been like opening pandora's box..its all become clear..i really kind of feel a little bit out of control in my thoughts, thats how powerful this revelation has been I simply dont make her happy, i wonder if ANYTHING EVER CAN MAKE HER HAPPY, she is certainly not committed to her own happiness and not committed to our marriage..she doesnt appreciate all the things i lovingly do for her, for us...i do not meet her emotional needs... thats not her fault..its my fault for going on so long with out looking in the mirror..so now i have to fix it..i will suffer she will suffer, my kids will suffer but thats it... I cannot live in this loveless world...i want and deserve a wife who cares about and for me and chooses to love who i am.. i dont have that so i have to move on.. right now she is lost in her own pain and suffering. i truly feel for her but honestly i am alot to blame, i let it get this far, i let her order me around with just a sigh, i didnt ravish her love when she was down, i didnt tell she was crazy to feel so bad about every stupid issue she could think up, on and on...now the kindest thing i can do for her is to tell her what i feel and hope we can move on. Merry Christmas!! Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 tricky - This reply has gotten long, as I'm incorporating stuff from this thread and comments from another one... You mentioned your kids in capt's thread, saying ...i am very connected to them now..i wake them up in the morning and put them to bed at nite..more than anything if we split up i will miss this First of all, in the still-hypothetical event you guys end up splitting up (and I hope for you that you find a way to happiness without doing that...) is there a reason you think you would not be able to have 50% joint custody? In my case (kids 6 and 8) STBX and I just started out assuming that we will share joint custody 50/50, but the prospect of not waking up in the same house with my children every day was so daunting that at first, we even considered getting divorced and trying to stay in the same house, which has an apartment kind of a thing that I'm currently staying in. Over time, I have come to realize that this would be a severe impediment to actually moving on with my life and recovering emotionally (and I believe she has come to the same point), so we have accepted the inevitability that our kids will live the life of joint custody. And while the idea of completely disconnecting from my wife - in her role as wife, housemate, etc. - is actually a source of significant relief, thinking about the kids in that context is also a significant source of guilt. Nonetheless, given our family dynamics, and the strong and healthy bonds the kids share with both of us, I still believe this to be better than one of us dropping out altogether (i.e. sole custody), which would be a devastating situation from so many angles... Why am I going on about all of this? I'm just thinking about your comment about what you'd miss if you split up, and I hope to convince you that you shouldn't go into this thinking you need to "give up" the kids. I hope that's not your assumption. In my state anyway, if you can come up with a "parenting plan" (newspeak for "custody agreement") that meets some basic requirements, and that both parties agree to, then the state pretty much OK's it. So for the sake of your relationship with your kids, please at least start the process looking forward to being fully involved in their lives, planning to tuck them in and wake them up half the time. I admit that I am totally projecting myself onto you here, and if there's a good concrete reason that this just couldn't work out, I'll accept that, but while it's hard enough to accept not being around my kids for half the time, it would just flat out kill me to lose them altogether. Anyway, maybe I misinterpreted your comment, but I hope you will be able to stay intimately involved in their lives and continue nurturing that bond... The other point I wanted to make - we had also talked about not demonizing our spouses around the kids. I kind of outlined in a post in phrekmon's "living in paradise" thread a little mental exercise I've been doing to help me deal with my STBX in a better way. Ha link directly to that post, but in summary, I have kind of defined her roles in my life (wife, lover, best friend, roommate, business partner in our financial assets, co-parent) into distinct, separate mental boxes, and I almost treat her as different "characters", depending on what's the current topic of discussion. This way, while I still harbor and work on anger at my "wife" and accept that she is gone from my life forever (having taken my lover and pretty much most of my best friend with her), I can still deal with the other "characters" without bringing to the table the burdens of my anger at my wife. For example, I can accept that the business partner has the same interest as I do in getting the best deal for all concerned when we sell the house and just deal with her calmly as I would any business partner. And I can look at my co-parent in a way that highlights the importance of maintaining a respectful and supportive working relationship for the benefit of our kids, and again, this helps me keep my anguish over the other junk from poisoning this part of our relationship. If it weren't for the kids, I suppose I could just wait until the house sells, then move on and not give a rat's @ss, but our kids will remain a joint project forever - and one that I hold at the core of my being, at that - so it is well to my advantage to find a way to work with her supportively. This little game of separating out her "characters" is working pretty well so far. It allows me to mourn the loss of my wife, to be angry with her, to accept that I may never completely understand that character - and to not have to suppress, to bury, to ignore those feelings - and yet still move on into a future where I can't completely disconnect from this human being, and to deal with her "new characters" without bringing those old feelings into the relationship. (That's what my counselor is for! ) tricky, there are some other things in your last post that I have feelings about.... and the coup de grace, she wants me to move out of our house, for an indefinite period time, leave the kids with her, but wait !!! not yet!!! only after the holidays cuz she is having XMAS for her family, then i'm allowed to go and i should wait by the phone for her to "Decide" what she wants to do... for a week? a month? 6 months? she can't say!!.. she knows i'll do anything she wants, she's learned this because that's what i did. Even if you can't do it for yourself yet (and I hope you will...) I suggest that you consider taking a stand for the sake of the kids. Moving out and leaving the kids to her sole custody - I just couldn't do this. Is this OK with you? And depending on the state you live in, if a custody negotiation (and heaven forbid, a "battle") gets going, do you want to be the one who moved out, leaving the kids with her, with no agreement as to joint custody of the kids during your separation? I don't know how these things work, but that's why it might it be a good time to see a lawyer, BEFORE you separate, to ensure that you aren't laying any framework that will make custody issues/negotiations harder if it comes to that in the future. over the last 2 weeks its been the realization that now I HAVE PRETTY MUCH GIVEN UP, that has caused me so much pain and guilt..I don't want to be married to her...there i said it...i almost can't beleive i'm saying it... Yeah, this was a real turning point for me. It kind of came to it from another direction - I realized that I had reached a point where the idea that she might come back to me and ask to work things out had become more daunting than the idea of moving on into my future without her. This led me to understand that I had really finally given up - really accepted that she was gone. This brought with it relief, but also those same feelings of guilt that you mention. i know know...you're gonna say don't tell me..tell her!!!!...don't post it in a message board... Actually, I'm not sure I would necessarily give that advice. I think if you start dumping your anger and confusion about her onto her as a method of healing yourself it seems likely to just push her away. Even pointing out stuff that you see as her problems to solve, may just push her away at this point in the process, I don't know... On the other hand, if you start working on yourself, building your confidence and relationship skills, and then also start to take some reasonable stands in your relationship, your actions will do the speaking for you, and probably in a more convincing and powerful way. I don't remember, have you tried some individual counseling for yourself? If not, have you considered it? I have been working out a lot of the anger and anguish about my wife with my counselor, and it has helped me a lot... It must be getting late - I'm starting to go on and on and on...... Sorry this got so long, but I find a lot of resonance in some of your points, and I hope for the best for you and your kids. Link to post Share on other sites
Author trickynj99 Posted December 3, 2005 Author Share Posted December 3, 2005 Trimmer man! you are the reason i post on these threads..thnx i read your post twice...some answers for you. we are in nj..joint custody is very typical and that will be the plan. i think one of the reasons she has stuck around in her mind is that i'm their father and altho i cant imagine the difficulty we will face, its joint custody all the way..ihave the cash, i will have a topnotch lawyer, and wife's sister is a lawyer so we will both be nice and lawyered up..altho in nj you can mediate i hope we go that way its funny last nite we put up the tree with kids till late..no opportunity to talk to each other as we have company today...so ok i'm chilled out...then my oldest daughter (who has a 150+ IQ, ADHD, and my wife i beleive doesnt really love the way a mother should because she so difficult sometimes) comes to me and says that mommy keeps yelling at her no matter what...wont go into long story but daughter is really trying to satisfy her mom, mom just isnt buying it...mom still hugs and says i loveyou(which is more than mom gets from grandma), but flies off the handle at every little thing at her oldest daughter... if you get the drift, this is has caused a big rift and is on top 3 list of why we are in marriage problem land..so it was very sad and i DID NOT DEMONIZE my wife, i just said it will be ok and we're all stressed out over holidays etc.. but it made me think that maybe in a strange way it will be good for my daughter to see our different parenting styles for an extended period of time as far as how i look at my wife,your idea is pretty neat..we still spend time together watching tv, doing crossword puzzle..its like we're robots and part of the program isnt erased yet!...when i'm feeling angry i think to myself i'll show her..i'll skip out on watching on our shows...duh. .getting rid of the anger is a major major goal of mine and i'll check out those other posts thnx other answer is that i've started personal counseling and thats one of the things that got me going in this direction..the counselor just simply guided me to "what do i really want" and that i owe it to myself to tell my wife ..this was such a powerful moment, everything changed and i cried off and on for days...the thing that blew my mind ,,counselor said..tell her...tell her you dont want to do this anymore, that you dont want a wife who is not in love with you...etc...i resisted and counselor said "Well your wife certainly has no problem telling you!!!!!" OUCH>.. hit like a ton of those proverbial bricks given i only have 24 hrs a day to worry about this, my new worry was becoming "oh no, what if she wants me back!!!??"...by trying to shoulder all the blame and trying to change and fix what was wrong, i was forgetting that there were 2 of us that drifted apart...why did i let it happen??well i had issues with her too, i never stood up for myself, ididnt say what ireally felt and gave her the ball(which she really doesnt want, and doesnt beleive she has the ball)..maybe in the fantasy world of keeping the family together this helps us get there by taking the guilt and pressure offmy wife...i have nothing to lose!!! its already gone so by responding to her moods, supressing my needs, etc...i'm totally losing myself...how ironic, that's what she says happened to her...the thing is she brings everybody down when she doesnt get her needs met, and i just take it like a man so to speak and only i suffer...again with the analysis but its true..i just don't want to do this anymore... so thnx again...i appreciate the support alot!!! i feel like thread killer around here sometmes i'm so depressing but this is such a great way to get the feelings out that face to face i have so much trouble with...it really helps to hear from you all and especially thnx to trimmer...very thoughtful and helpful post Link to post Share on other sites
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