Discovered Nine Year Old Affair

[JonJ]

I’ve been with the mother of my two children (3yrs and 1yr) for 11 years. About 9 years ago she admitted that she had one night where she went out with her girlfriend and met up with another guy and that they all made out and were kissing. On a separate night with the same girlfriend, she admitted to making out with a different guy in a pool. She said she had had a crush on this guy for a while, and had pursued him, which led to the situation in the pool, but when she eventually saw him making out with her girlfriend that night, she got turned off and left. I believed her, and even though it was weird, I came to terms with this and accepted it and moved on. 
 

Last week, all of a sudden, these events resurfaced in my mind, and I felt compelled to ask her again, after nine years, if anything else indeed happened. She admitted that in the pool event, she had ended up in a bathtub with her crush, and received and gave oral sex. Also in the previous event, both her girlfriend and the other guy gave her oral sex. 
 

Devastating.

At this point, I’m essentially insane. With vivid mental pornographic movies playing in my mind about these situations, torment and abdominal pain overwhelming me to the point of paralysis, intense rage and anger wash over like lava, I’m confused and shocked. No one wants to picture their special love of their life leaving to go give it all away in some ******** bathtub. But that’s what I’m imagining over and over and over again.

I love her still so much, but I’m so angry at her for the fact that her actions have invited such tormenting mental images, jealously, destruction of self worth, suspicion of not getting the entire story.
 

We have two really superb and sweet children together now. 

I feel consumed with confusion and feel like every way forward is painful. 
 

I know every situation is different, but has anyone else out there found out about an old affair and how have you dealt with it?

Any advice on how someone in my position can move forward?

 

thank you,

JJ

 

 

[Wiseman2]

 What happened ast week, all of a sudden? Why did these events resurfaced in my mind, and I felt compelled to ask her again, after nine years?.

Please try to focus on your current situation, relationship and relationship conflicts? Does she want to get married? Are you both working? Has there been any financial stress? Has your sex life been in trouble?

Please consider couples therapy or at least a licensed qualified therapist for yourself for ongoing support and a chance to unpack and sort this out and focus on whatever is going on now. 

[JonJ]

I remember how it came back to my mind. I don’t know the context of the conversation, but it was just a light discussion, and somehow it led me to saying “just like how I don’t know everything about what you’ve done” almost in a lighthearted manner. But there was obviously hidden pain and questions there that I had not addressed in the intervening years, and for days after, I was consumed with wondering what had went on back then. 
 

In my opinion, we have a wonderful relationship currently, with a great sex life, and are really best friends with each other.

We are looking into Solo and Couples Counseling.

[Sony12]

Her girlfriend gave her oral sex as well? Just out curiosity is your wife bisexual?

[JonJ]

No she is not officially bi. This was her only time experiencing sex with another woman 

[Sony12]

4 minutes ago, JonJ said:

No she is not officially bi. This was her only time experiencing sex with another woman 

Ok if she allowed another woman to go down on her as well and she has little to no attraction to women she very likely might have gotten extremely caught up in the moment and it might have little bearing on what she would do now.

It's also highly possible a lot of alcohol may have been involved. Which doesn't make it ok but also may have made her do some things she wouldn't have done if sober.

[JonJ]

Sony, 

Your sentiment has helped ease my pain. Yes, she had previously told me years ago that during these events, she was drinking a lot. She again reiterated this fact when she has broken down exactly what happened. 
Your point that she may have just got caught up in a whirlwind moment while inebriated helps me gain some perspective. 
 

thanks

[Sony12]

4 minutes ago, JonJ said:

Sony, 

Your sentiment has helped ease my pain. Yes, she had previously told me years ago that during these events, she was drinking a lot. She again reiterated this fact when she has broken down exactly what happened. 
Your point that she may have just got caught up in a whirlwind moment while inebriated helps me gain some perspective. 
 

thanks

Yeah. You two should still go to counseling but what happened isn't really the same as her having an ongoing affair that she was willingly taking part in over time. If your marriage is still good now what happened nine years ago on a drunken night shouldn't cause your marriage to end. 

And you can get a lot of sexual favors from her from this point going forward, lol.

[JonJ]

Thank you, there are indeed aspects of the events that seem to be not as serious as other kinds of affairs I’ve read about. But the mental images of her in pornographic situations that did indeed happen, are still really difficult to deal with. I keep telling myself it was nine years ago, but it feels as it might as well have been last week.

 

[Sony12]

1 minute ago, JonJ said:

Thank you, there are indeed aspects of the events that seem to be not as serious as other kinds of affairs I’ve read about. But the mental images of her in pornographic situations that did indeed happen, are still really difficult to deal with. I keep telling myself it was nine years ago, but it feels as it might as well have been last week.

 

True and it will probably be something you will never be able to forget about. Is she still friends with the lady who was with her? Was her friend married at the time as well? Sounds like your wife has a very high sex drive and sometimes when you mix that with alcohol (and potentially some peer pressure) things can happen.

It's not uncommon for people to have small crushes on someone who is not their spouse. Which is why it is good to avoid situations where you could be with them alone because things can happen. 

It 100% sounds like she acknowledges it was a mistake now though and would never do it again. 

Just don't let her go to anymore pool parties with a guy she thinks is hot without you.

[JonJ]

3 minutes ago, Sony12 said:

Just don't let her go to anymore pool parties with a guy she thinks is hot without you.

I remember her and her gf leaving that night to go to the pool party and my heart sinking. I should have never let her go.

[ARAMCOMAN]

 

"About 9 years ago she admitted that she had one night where she went out with her girlfriend and met up with another guy and that they all made out and were kissing. On a separate night with the same girlfriend, she admitted to making out with a different guy in a pool."

So from my understanding you're WW admitted to cheating with her friend and a guy on two separate nights. This too me suggest a choice not a one night drunken mistake. She wanted it to happen again after the first go around. This for me would be much more difficult to believe her I was drunk story than to realize she wanted to feel the excitement she felt the first time or maybe even more.

[MsJayne]

I'm  bit confused by your post, so apologies if I've misinterpreted, but are you saying that she admitted that she was pursuing other guys, (at least twice), while she was your partner? Her and her girlfriend "met up" with some guy - that's not a boozy mistake, there's planning involved in arranging a meet-up. Did you only have a casual relationship 9 years ago, or did you have an open relationship? Unless you had an agreement about sex with other people her behaviour was all kinds of wrong and alcohol wasn't an acceptable excuse. Did she ever express shame or sorrow, or embarrassment, that she treated you like that, or did she focus on making excuses and afterwards behave as if the grand gesture of confessing cleaned her slate? If maintaining harmony in a relationship means having to pretend you're not angry about something, there's a power imbalance in the relationship. You saying "Just like I don't know everything you've done" smacks of the kind of simmering resentment that unresolved issues and being gas-lit leads to, no matter how light-hearted the delivery.  Couples counselling is a very good choice, you need to bring this stuff up in front of an unbiased third party. You'll either find resolution, or you might find that being validated gives you the strength to see things through a lens not blurred by feelings. 

[Lotsgoingon]

I don't think you answered Wiseman's question in any depth.

Something more than "a moment" got you curious or insecure and suddenly wanting to re-investigate the subject of her fling going back many years. 

Usually we ask these questions because we are going through a period of insecurity in the relationship. Something in the relationship has not felt safe to you recently, and so you wanted to see how solid the ground you stood on was. And feeling like the ground beneath you (and the relationship) was shaky, your first step was to see if the ground had ever been safe and secure!

I'm going to say you actually KNEW her original story wasn't the full story. It's just that at the time you might have not have wanted to confront her or you didn’t know how to confront her and you took her answer, shaky as they were, and you accepted them.

Years later, you were able to call up the vagueness in her earlier story. And you knew the story was flimsy enough that you needed to check it again. You wouldn’t be asking again about these flings if you thought her story was rock solid.

What’s going on that triggered this insecurity that led to the questions? Typically in situations like this it's when we are feeling distant from a partner without the partner saying anything about why they're being distant. We feel adrift, but there is no acknowledgement of the uncertainty.  

 

[ExpatInItaly]

8 hours ago, MsJayne said:

but are you saying that she admitted that she was pursuing other guys, (at least twice), while she was your partner? Her and her girlfriend "met up" with some guy - that's not a boozy mistake, there's planning involved in arranging a meet-up

That's what I am wondering, too. 

This doesn't sounds like a "caught-up-in-the-moment" situation. It happened more than once, and seems to have been quite intentional. 

[JonJ]

Hello,

I appreciate that various perspectives and I resonate with all of them. 
Prior to my inquiring about the past, I believe that our relationship has been very solid. Our daughter, who is one, started sleeping through the night a few months ago, and we’ve been using our free time at night to reconnect after having two kids in three years. Everything was going really good IMO. But obviously, I had simmering, ancient questions, and I did not like the answers. 
As far as whether these events were “planned” or “spontaneous”… I think it’s a mixture of both. She did indeed have a crush on another guy, who she would admire from a distance, then they began casually talking, then planned a meet up with my girl, her gf and this guy at a pool. All of this was both spontaneous and planned IMO. She claims that the sexual part was relatively short, and that she became upset when soon after, she saw her crush making out with her girlfriend and left the event to come home. After this, she stopped seeing both her crush and her girlfriend. She admitted at least that there was kissing, although she didn’t tell me the full story until last week. As far as the threesome she had separately, with that same girl and a different guy. That was indeed a spontaneous event, without planning.

During the recent months, since our daughters sleep schedule became more regular, we’ve been having a great sex life, better than ever.

Since she told me, I am either in a negative spiral of extreme torment and despair and thinking it won’t work out between us, or I am in a elated emotional state of feeling strong love for her and wanting to forgive and move on.

[JonJ]

I don’t really think I have issues with trusting her currently. I have no indication that she has any inclination to do anything like these decisions she made nine years ago. 
The issues I’m having are accepting the reality of what apparently happened in the past, dealing with the mental imagery, and also the resistance to believing that I have the whole truth. 

[BaileyB]

I would really love to say to you - she has been a good wife to you, it’s the last nine years and the children/life you have built together that really matter…

But, the truth is that this was a huge betrayal. It’s not the cheating for me, it’s the fact that she kept this secret for nine years. That’s a different kind of betrayal. The fact that you now know that she has kept this secret and provided a trickle truth will forever make you doubt - and rightfully so. 

There is no magic fix here, if you are going to move past this and heal your marriage, you will need to do the work. It’s good that you are planning to get some counselling. She will need to be transparent and trustworthy - the simple truth is, she hasn’t proven herself to be trustworthy. What’s to stop her from doing this again? At this moment, I wouldn’t trust that she won’t… 

My only advice for you is do not play those movies in your mind - that is what creates the trauma. Resist the urge to let your mind wander, focus on the here and now and look forward - not backward. What do you want for your marriage? What does she need to do now? How do you heal the betrayal of trust and move forward as a family? 

Good luck.

 

Edited March 4 by BaileyB

[Lotsgoingon]

I agree with Bailey. I so much want to say, hey if you feel the relationship is solid now, focus there.

But ... that's not reasonable or human. Because frankly, having learned of one lie, your brain now NEEDS to double-check for further lies. People who cheat on their partners have this whole routine they do when they fess up: they leave out the full story. They try to minimize their betrayal and their partner's anger by minimizing (frankly just lying) the number of times they cheated, the number of people they cheated with and they minimize their passionate commitment to the cheating at the time. 

Basically the situation you're in is equivalent to just discovering your wife has been having an affair. That's a terrible place to be. And yes, those images are quite frequently part of the trauma that betrayed partners go through. There is no simple solution here. But I will recommend a video by Julie Gottman. I won't link to it. But it's on what needs to happen for a betrayed partner to recover trust in the relationship. It's not long, maybe 5 minutes. I really recommend you watch the video----it makes the most sense in the shortest amount of time of pretty much anything I've seen. 

The video is on YouTube. It's called "The Trust Revival Method." (I won't link here because sometimes links are distracting or they're judged as being part of a commercial business and so on, and they get taken down--which I fully understand and support.) The speaker is  Julie Gottman, but her partner John is there with her. They are among the foremost researchers on marriage in the world.  And unfortunately recovering from affairs is part of studying marriage. Julie Gottman says the images you are experiencing are a thing many betrayed partners go through. But she also gives steps you can take to possibly feel secure again.

One, you got to task all the questions you want to ask ... and dig deeper ... you got to know exactly what happened ... ask all the questions you want—that’s the only way to get back on solid ground. She also tells betrayed partners NOT ask what the sex positions and all of that were, but learning that info will lead to images. Unfortunately you’ve already gotten detailed information on the sex positions and so on. That's part of the trauma you're going through. Watch it! And watch it again later. 

Lots of compassion to you. If you feel you are losing your grip on reality, it’s not that anything is wrong with you. It’s the situation.

 

[JonJ]

12 hours ago, BaileyB said:

My only advice for you is do not play those movies in your mind - that is what creates the trauma. Resist the urge to let your mind wander, focus on the here and now and look forward - not backward. What do you want for your marriage? What does she need to do now? How do you heal the betrayal of trust and move forward as a family? 

Thank you very much … these are questions I hope to find some answers to over the coming days and weeks (and months).

[JonJ]

10 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Lots of compassion to you. If you feel you are losing your grip on reality, it’s not that anything is wrong with you. It’s the situation.

Thank you. On your advice, I’ve watched the Gottman video twice already along with some other of their talks. They seem like they will be a huge help for me. I really appreciate it.

Your thoughtful response really got to essence of what I’m going through, thank you for taking the time to think about my situation.

Edited March 5 by JonJ

[Lotsgoingon]

Hey, if you have any close friends or even coworkers that you trust, this is a great time to tell them you need their help. You can say it's an emergency. Meet them at a bar (assuming you don't have a drinking problem) or restaurant or out in a park somewhere. And tell them the whole story.

It seems embarrassing to tell the story to others, you need the support of others. And you need to tell this to someone other than your partner and yourself. You can even tell these folks that you just need them to listen ... and that over time, you may want to strategize with them on what to do. Remember, you didn't do anything wrong. So don't let that shame totally convince you otherwise.  The people who are good people will not turn against you or look down on you because of this situation. Some of them have been in similar situations, on one side or the other. And they may feel honored that you opened up to them.

I was in a situation (decades ago) similar to the situation you're in and I regret that I only told one person at the time. 

BTW: I do think this is an emergency. I assume you need to get through the workday and pay bills and the rest—even as your mind is stuck on this betraya.  Might not be an ER emergency but the pain will last longer than an ER emergency. And no one is acknowledging your pain and attending to it. If you're at all up for it, think about calling a counselor—I’d leave a message to say this is an emergency. You want some support as soon as possible.  I would stay away from marriage counseling for a bit until you get support for YOU. Then later, you can consider couples counseling (this is just my view). But right now, sharing your story would help you feel less isolated.  And as you do so, your stress will go down (still emergency but clearer), you will feel less isolated and shamed, and you can think and strategize better---and you’ll get some good ideas from others.

 

[daveamec]

How are you sure if was oral sex only? Have you been OK with your wife giving oral sex to her guy? Did she tell you her feeling about giving this oral sex? IF she remembers it well, then it is something to think about.   Where is this guy now? Is he around?

[JonJ]

 

8 hours ago, daveamec said:

How are you sure if was oral sex only? Have you been OK with your wife giving oral sex to her guy? Did she tell you her feeling about giving this oral sex? IF she remembers it well, then it is something to think about.   Where is this guy now? Is he around?

I have to accept the fact that I’ll never know for sure if what I’m being told is the entire truth. There is simply know way for me to forensically prove that nothing else happened. 
She has explained her state of mind at the time nine years ago, at least as much as she can remember. As far as how much of a detailed memory she has, I have no clue, I stopped going down the path of seeking the sexual details, as they were causing too many images and negative feelings.

He is still around in our city, but neither of us see him very often.

 

Edited March 8 by JonJ

[JonJ]

I’ve made some progress in how to deal with the problem of recurring and incessant mental images.

I asked my wife if she would be willing to describe, as detailed as she is comfortable, a positive sexual experience prior to us getting together. She was reluctant, but after a day of thinking, she relayed a good sexual experience she has a year before we were together.

My idea was to try to replace the images I was having with other less triggering images. Which did work, but something else happened internally. 
I noticed that it was indeed possible for me to imagine my wife engaged in sexual acts without being triggered into a downward spiral of self loathing, panic and depression. 

I asked myself “why are some sexual mental images of my wife benign, and why are some extremely triggering?”

I concluded that it is the narrative or story that the images are embedded in that dictate how my mind was reacting to them.

I surmised that if there was going to be a way to get past these obsessive thoughts and images, it would be to understand the narrative or story behind the actions that transpired those nights. Just this conclusion alone was able to take a majority of the edge of the mental turmoil. 
 

I now try to bring my focus back to the motives and circumstances surrounding the cheating if my mind starts to get caught up on sexual details that will never give me an accurate picture of the actual sexual event anyway. 
Imagining my wife’s story from her perspective during that time has helped me to empathize with the confusion she was experiencing at the time, She was seeking validation and connection out in the world. Why? Who knows, but we have worked together to try to understand these intentions and motivations, and the more I understand, the more I have accepted the narrative. The idea is that having a really good handle on the entire story can possibly (probably) take the edge off the cheating images I have, making theses images behave more like the ones I have of her sexual experience from before we were together.

This is the process I’ve put together to try to emerge from the torment of cyclic, obsessive mental images.

Edited March 8 by JonJ