Bringing your lover to heel - animal training and human relationships

[ReluctantRomeo]

This is a spin-off from another thread:http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=74979&page=24

 

 

The BBC recently aired a series "bring your husband to heel" in which a dogtrainer dispensed marital advice. The idea was that rewards designed for dogs can motivate people too.

 

What are your views?

 

Personally I can see points for and points against. Children definitely need some kind of system of rewards (with or without spanking). Adults respond to affection.

 

But is this manipulation? And how does one take into account that we have neither the habits of predators (like dogs) nor prey (like horses)?

 

Let the games commence

[lindya]

But is this manipulation? And how does one take into account that we have neither the habits of predators (like dogs) nor prey (like horses)?

 

Let the games commence

 

I think some people like to refer to their partner as "the Boss". Men of retirement age particularly seem to enjoy referring to "she who must be obeyed."

 

Perhaps, RR, it's more of a British public school tradition. Do what nanny tells you, or there will be some stern punishment involving spotted dick pudding and an early bedtime. I've often found that really difficult, aggressive men become quite malleable if I take a cheerful, slightly bossy approach with them. They know exactly what I'm doing, and they love it.

[a4a]

This is a spin-off from another thread:http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=74979&page=24

 

 

The BBC recently aired a series "bring your husband to heel" in which a dogtrainer dispensed marital advice. The idea was that rewards designed for dogs can motivate people too.

 

What are your views?

 

Personally I can see points for and points against. Children definitely need some kind of system of rewards (with or without spanking). Adults respond to affection.

 

But is this manipulation? And how does one take into account that we have neither the habits of predators (like dogs) nor prey (like horses)?

 

Let the games commence

 

Of course it is manipulation of sorts but not one that is negative. Regardless of animal or human relationships we manipulate the other human to get the reaction we want...... we manipulate people with even our choice of clothing... low cut shirt, shorty skirt ect..... does it work...... hell yes!

 

I think if you want to in general compare a person to an animal species.....

Pot belly pigs are the best way to describe people. They are a predator and prey animal rolled into one. Also have many human like behaviors.... I did not use primates as they are too much like humans in many aspects to do a prey vs predator comparsion....if that makes any damn sense at all

 

a4a

[ReluctantRomeo]

Pot belly pigs are the best way to describe people.

 

Hey! I just haven't been to the gym this week, that's all

 

Seriously though, how do you train pigs? And what lessons are there for dealing with people?

[ReluctantRomeo]

I've often found that really difficult, aggressive men become quite malleable if I take a cheerful, slightly bossy approach with them. They know exactly what I'm doing, and they love it.

 

Cheerful and slightly bossy was definitely the tone of the dog trainer. Lots of rewards and praise too.

[alphamale]

The BBC recently aired a series "bring your husband to heel" in which a dogtrainer dispensed marital advice. The idea was that rewards designed for dogs can motivate people too.

this is pretty funny RR...but what if the BBC aired a series "make your wife a purrrrrring kitty" in which a cat trainer dispensed marital advice to men.

 

don't you think women would be up in arms and rioting in the streets and burning braziers? this is just another example of the female dominated societies we live in

[TheDiva]

this is pretty funny RR...but what if the BBC aired a series "make your wife a purrrrrring kitty" in which a cat trainer dispensed marital advice to men.

 

don't you think women would be up in arms and rioting in the streets and burning braziers? this is just another example of the female dominated societies we live in

 

 

OK NOW I AM MAD!

 

 

 

NO seriously! Please encourage such a show. If my husband could make me purrrrrrrr like a kitty I would NEVER leave his side (or lap rather) Quit laughing I am being serious.

[lindya]

this is pretty funny RR...but what if the BBC aired a series "make your wife a purrrrrring kitty" in which a cat trainer dispensed marital advice to men.

 

don't you think women would be up in arms and rioting in the streets and burning braziers? this is just another example of the female dominated societies we live in

 

you must be joking, alpha. Any man who can make a purrrrring kitty out of me is welcome a le chateau de Lindya. Provided he remembers to take a saucer of milk with him.

 

God - this brazier is killing me today. That's what you get for using a metal bowl for support instead of a sensible Markies bra.

[ReluctantRomeo]

If my husband could make me purrrrrrrr like a kitty I would NEVER leave his side (or lap rather)

 

My experience agrees with you and Lindya. Juliets rather like being treated with the attention-giving habits I have for my cats... and I know some caresses which are guaranteed to make a girl purr

[ReluctantRomeo]

God - this brazier is killing me today. That's what you get for using a metal bowl for support instead of a sensible Markies bra.

 

Any particular reason to be wearing your halter today? Anything of relevance to the current thread that you wish to share?

[a4a]

Hey! I just haven't been to the gym this week, that's all

 

Seriously though, how do you train pigs? And what lessons are there for dealing with people?

 

 

Pigs are by far one of the most interesting animals to work with. I have only had about 8 within my care, recently new to pigs (not talking about feeder pigs used for meat) only about 3 years working with them.

 

Right from the start you realize that they are very human like in their behavior and reactions to your behavior.

They can also be highly aggressive. Exceedingly intelligent, and they seem to have a sense of humor (as do horses and many other animals).

 

I find I have to use both predator and prey training methods combined. Results vary more by individual as compared to other animals.

 

I have 2 sister pigs..... both raised the same... however one is more responsive to physical reward..... belly scratch ect.... the other is food responsive. So like any species you have to treat each as an indiviual when training and only use your previous training experience as a guide until you figure out that individual and how the animal/person responds.......we all do this.... teasing other people is form of training - getting a desired response from a person. Once you know what exactly will trigger the response you will tease that person by using the same method/words.

 

Overall with most animals/people/pigs you have to find their trigger point.... by that I mean the point and reason in which the animal responds the way you want it to. The secret is to reward exactly at the moment the trigger point is reached. Not upon completion of the desired response but once the desired response has started.

 

Depending if you want the response or are trying to get rid of the response it does not matter .... it is timing and using either the proper reward or "punishment" that give the subject the reason to behave in the desired way.

 

If you call your dog to you..... start praising as soon as the dog come toward you.........

 

If you want your husband to finish cleaning the kitchen...... start praising as soon as he picks up the first dish.

 

I can elaborate on this....... however this does work..... cooking is an easy one to start with.

 

this is so involved it is difficult to put into words unless you take case on indiviually....... there are a 50 ways to get a dog to sit.... but the above trigger point theory will apply to all 50 different methods.

 

a4a

[Hot Coco]

Of course it is manipulation of sorts but not one that is negative. Regardless of animal or human relationships we manipulate the other human to get the reaction we want...... we manipulate people with even our choice of clothing... low cut shirt, shorty skirt ect..... does it work...... hell yes!

 

I think if you want to in general compare a person to an animal species.....

Pot belly pigs are the best way to describe people. They are a predator and prey animal rolled into one. Also have many human like behaviors.... I did not use primates as they are too much like humans in many aspects to do a prey vs predator comparsion....if that makes any damn sense at all

 

a4a

 

Perfect sense, D'Art...err I mean a4a!

[Hot Coco]

I'm curious...how does an animal show a sense of humor?

[alphamale]

I'm curious...how does an animal show a sense of humor?

Do your ever watch Family Guy, HOT COCO??? Brian, their pet dog, talks and laughs all the time.

[ReluctantRomeo]

I'm curious...how does an animal show a sense of humor?

 

Me too, come to that...

[ReluctantRomeo]

I can elaborate on this....... however this does work.....

 

Feel free

[slubberdegullion]

I'm curious...how does an animal show a sense of humor?

I don't know about horses, but I'm convinced that my dog used to play tricks on me. I'd throw a ball or frisbee or whatever, then he'd run up to it but not pick it up. I'd then go to him to pick it up and throw it again, and he'd quickly snatch it and run away.

 

I don't know if it was a sense of humour, but he sure enjoyed the game!

 

gawd, I miss my pup!

[Hot Coco]

I don't know about horses, but I'm convinced that my dog used to play tricks on me. I'd throw a ball or frisbee or whatever, then he'd run up to it but not pick it up. I'd then go to him to pick it up and throw it again, and he'd quickly snatch it and run away.

 

I don't know if it was a sense of humour, but he sure enjoyed the game!

 

gawd, I miss my pup!

 

Awww...very cute. But wouldn't that be more like just playful behavior? I don't know. I'm really curious about this. I only know cats. Never had or really been around any other animals. Cats don't really display any kind of sense of humor. They can get playful and are really affectionate but I've never thought about animals really having a sense of humor. I always thought that was a distinctly human trait.

[Walk]

I had a few horses when I was growing up, and my favorite was the old sly one. He'd could sense if someone was scared and as soon as they walked into the pasture he run full barrell toward the person. They'd either run like the dickens to get out of the pasture, in which case he would continue chasing them all the way out. Or if they just stood there frozen he'd stop right in front of them and then shove the person really hard with his nose in their chest.

 

I knew he was laughing at 'em. He'd be extra energetic, throwing his head, looking cocky and strutting around. He also had this game he played with the dogs. I'd look out my window and see the yellow lab chasing the horse across the pasture. Then a few seconds later the horse was chasing the lab the other way across the pasture.

 

There's nothing definitive you could say which said they have a sense of humor, or just playful. But it was a way this horse cocked his ears, held his head, looked at you, after one of his stunts that just said he thought it was hillarious.

 

I miss the bastard. *sigh*

[alphamale]

but I'm convinced that my dog used to play tricks on me.

why SLUBBER??? did he hide your bag of reefer while you were away at work?

[Walk]

I found out my bf has had this "training" idea from the get go. He slipped and told me his plan one night. On how he was using reward/punishment to make me have sex more often. However, he did say it wasn't working. I told him he wasn't using the right rewards. Ha!

 

I think it does work, if you are subtle about it.

 

The secret is to reward exactly at the moment the trigger point is reached. Not upon completion of the desired response but once the desired response has started.

 

I am so glad you said this!!! I've been rewarding after, and I couldn't figure out why it wasn't working.

[a4a]

Me too, come to that...

 

We have a pony that will hide behind the barn and run out and bite people on the ass when they enter the pasture..... not me but others. (He tried this with me one time....NOT again). This not a daily pattern nor an aggressive one (horse body language is easy to read). You could watch him plan his butt attack.... not a pattern behavior at all..... but is not uncommon.

 

However once he does this he will again hide behind the barn and repeat it. Post each attack their is a kick up of heels and snorting..... the I feel good language of horses using their bodies. Does he find this funny .... I would certainly say so. Does he tell jokes about "when the jockey walked into the bar"? NO.

 

If it were a territorial behavior it would be patterned, happen more frequent, or the horse would have aggressive body language when doing this.... it would be much simpler for him not to take the time to hide behind the barn.

(horses are prey animals so it is not a hunting instinct like a cat). He clearly knows the hiding would surprise the victim.

 

We keep toys in the pastures and put objects in for them to play with... they do express play behavior and happiness when playing with these toys. Or when hiding out and biting asses.......play.....joy...animal laughing of sorts...the pony is like a little kid pulling a persons hair and running off laughing. To the pony this was enjoyable. Does enjoyment = humor? I think it sure does when the one pulling the prank thinks it is funny or enjoys the response. To the ass being bitten it is not humor. However one can only decide for themselves if something is humor or not.

 

Thus again (the avatar).... the donkey that plays tug o war with a dog rope toy.... and they would chase each other..... there was no survival reason to do this... it was play......something they enjoy..... animals express joy and happiness. There is no reason the donkey (normally would kill a dog in nature) would tolerate the dog humping his leg, (many dogs do this in the middle of playing with other dogs, alpha dog in most cases). The donkey chose to interact with the dog because he enjoyed it. (The donkey did not enjoy the dog humping his leg as shown by his ears in the photo)....but did love to play with the dog. The donkey is not fond of other dogs....just that one.

 

Then...... there is the damn house goat stories..........

 

a4a

[a4a]

I found out my bf has had this "training" idea from the get go. He slipped and told me his plan one night. On how he was using reward/punishment to make me have sex more often. However, he did say it wasn't working. I told him he wasn't using the right rewards. Ha!

 

I think it does work, if you are subtle about it.

 

 

 

I am so glad you said this!!! I've been rewarding after, and I couldn't figure out why it wasn't working.

 

Walk...... it is the secret to success about 98% of the time. You have to figure out the proper reward / punishment tho.

 

You do have to be more subtle about it. You certainly don't want to use it for evil..... I rarely use it on my husband. I enjoy his unruly behavior and have enough animals to keep me busy using these methods. However I am aware that I have "trained" previous partners. In the long run I lose interest in them once they are broke to ride..... then time to move on to the next one.........(this is a smartassism)

 

a4a

[Hot Coco]

We have a pony that will hide behind the barn and run out and bite people on the ass when they enter the pasture..... not me but others. (He tried this with me one time....NOT again). This not a daily pattern nor an aggressive one (horse body language is easy to read). You could watch him plan his butt attack.... not a pattern behavior at all..... but is not uncommon.

 

However once he does this he will again hide behind the barn and repeat it. Post each attack their is a kick up of heels and snorting..... the I feel good language of horses using their bodies. Does he find this funny .... I would certainly say so. Does he tell jokes about "when the jockey walked into the bar"? NO.

 

If it were a territorial behavior it would be patterned, happen more frequent, or the horse would have aggressive body language when doing this.... it would be much simpler for him not to take the time to hide behind the barn.

(horses are prey animals so it is not a hunting instinct like a cat). He clearly knows the hiding would surprise the victim.

 

We keep toys in the pastures and put objects in for them to play with... they do express play behavior and happiness when playing with these toys. Or when hiding out and biting asses.......play.....joy...animal laughing of sorts...the pony is like a little kid pulling a persons hair and running off laughing. To the pony this was enjoyable. Does enjoyment = humor? I think it sure does when the one pulling the prank thinks it is funny or enjoys the response. To the ass being bitten it is not humor. However one can only decide for themselves if something is humor or not.

 

Thus again (the avatar).... the donkey that plays tug o war with a dog rope toy.... and they would chase each other..... there was no survival reason to do this... it was play......something they enjoy..... animals express joy and happiness. There is no reason the donkey (normally would kill a dog in nature) would tolerate the dog humping his leg, (many dogs do this in the middle of playing with other dogs, alpha dog in most cases). The donkey chose to interact with the dog because he enjoyed it. (The donkey did not enjoy the dog humping his leg as shown by his ears in the photo)....but did love to play with the dog. The donkey is not fond of other dogs....just that one.

 

Then...... there is the damn house goat stories..........

 

a4a

 

Wow! It really DOES sound like they do have a sense of humor! That's so interesting.

 

Now what's this about a house goat?????? I'll put my avatar back if you tell us!

[a4a]

Wow! It really DOES sound like they do have a sense of humor! That's so interesting.

 

Now what's this about a house goat?????? I'll put my avatar back if you tell us!

 

I am probably too paranoid to chat about the goat. It's going to take a little more than some cup of steaming, thick, frothy, creamy, hot cocoa to urge me on.

 

Where the hell did that come from......?? oh well.... me and my damn addictive personality!

 

a4a