Another rant on the opposite needs between the sexes.

[alphamale]

The best way to know how he will treat you is how he treats you after you've been with him for several months.

There was a case here in Michigan a while back of this married couple who had kids. The husband was a fine-upstanding citizen who went to church and did everything his domineering wife asked him too. Yes honey, no honey, whatever u want honey....alll that krap.

 

Well, one day after 17 yrs of marriage he woke up and shot her in the head 5 or 6 times with .45 caliber hollow-tipped bullets.

 

I think the largest piece of her head they found intact was like 1 inch big.

[Outcast]

But this overwhelming feeling of making him "see". To be heard, and understood.

 

There's nothing abnormal about that. However, trying to make a self-absorbed person understand you is a lost cause. You will try until you burst a vein and nothing will change. Understand that and get out.

[Lishy]

He is a controller and narcisstic!!

 

When I first read Dr Irenes site I cried. I was reading about my hubby and all of a sudden I realised it wasnt ME it was HIM! He had me convinced that it was all MY fault ... and i believed him!!!

 

Read and re-read all over that site Walk and you will understand him and how he ticks and you will hopefully get enough self respect and courage to leave. He will never change on that I am sure.

 

Do as your name says baby and WALK!!!!!!!

[SincereOnlineGuy]

His mother died in '96 of heart failure. She was diabetic, and was going through dialysis. My bf moved in with her, worked two full time jobs while going to college full time to support her. At the same time he took care of his sisters son (4yr old), because she decided that having a child was too much work, but she still wanted the welfare the government sent. His dad died a while after leaving his mom, he was an abusive alcoholic. The rest of his family are his grandparents, and an 2 aunts/uncles. He stopped speaking to his two sisters a long time ago due to understandable reasons.

 

He still visits his mothers grave every year. And he took me last year.

 

Oh, I forgot to say, he was 19-22 during this time.

 

If based on the way he treated, and speaks of his mother still, he is the most wonderful, caring, respetful, get the job done at whatever the cost to himself, type of man.

 

 

It sounds as if you are ready to take a direction for your own life and future which will entangle you for an undetermined amount of time with the son of an abusive alcoholic. It also sounds as if you don't see how profoundly affected by that abuse your guy is likely to be. You understand through his sisters how he tends to deal with disagreements and frustrations. You also cite an example of his own (full- ?) sibling being an irresponsible person in more ways than one, and also imply that she is quite likely the product of her father's abusive ways as well.

 

Your first line lets us know that the most significant woman he has ever lived with to date died of heart failure. All we're trying to do is to inspire you away from being the woman in his household who dies of a broken heart.

 

At the very least, demand to meet the remaining family and while you're doing so, take detailed mental notes about the traits which you'll be interfacing with for the long haul.

[NYCmitch25]

Quote:

The best gauge as to how a guy will likely treat his female lover is how he treats his mother.

 

 

I disagree. Some mothers are horrid and don't deserve good treatment. Some men are pathologically attached to their mothers next to whom no woman can compare. The best way to know how he will treat you is how he treats you after you've been with him for several months.

 

I disagree with both of these statements in a sense. To learn quickly what a guy is like , look at his family and chiefly his parents and how they treat each other -- he has inherited their "social language". If Dad is on his 3rd marriage or they always fight or even if you don't like them, good luck to ya if you decide to continue to date this guy. Also one sould look at their own too and be mindful of it's shortcommings. but nobody ever does this.

[NYCmitch25]

I think there a lot of great comments here....

 

but I feel that there is no need in "understanding" a guy who keeps this gal isolated from his family --that is about the most serious of red flags in my book which is usually employed by men who are after just getting "that thing" from their newly trusting "girlfriend".

 

Again, Walk, why do you want to be with this guy still ? Tell us about you.

[Walk]

I've been wondering though. Because someone has a bad background, then they should be excluded from dating?

 

His family is atrocious! Horrible. Not one of his sisters or brother can keep a job, they do drugs, they have kids just to get more government assistance.

 

He's the opposite. I've asked him why, and he says he Never wants to be like his family was/is. And that's why he's tried so hard to distance himself from them.

 

He doesn't drink, doesn't do drugs, doesn't sleep around, doesn't lie, doesn't cheat. Has worked way over 40 hours a week for the 2 years I've known him. He has no outstanding debts, no balance on his credit card, and all bills are paid on time and in full. Everything he owns is paid off.

 

He's helped me pay off over $5000 in debt in the first year we were together. (from my divorce) He still ditches his friends to be with me. Will chose me (usually) over doing other things. Calls me at least once a day when gone, always replies immediately when I contact him.

 

My problem with him, is that he when he gets stressed or frustrated he doesn't communicate in a very healthy manner. It hurts me, and frustrates me.

 

I'm not saying he doesn't have a ton of problems, but inside a shell of egotistical bs is a really caring, sensitive man who will do anything I ask of him. Even if he absolutely does not want to.

 

So do I toss him aside because of this? I know there are things about me that are really rotten. I cheated several times on my exh. My uncle is a raging alcoholic. My father was overbearing, and had one hell of a temper. My mother is controlling and a bit narcisstic. With what every one is saying, then I too should be kicked from the dating pool.

 

So wheres the line? For all my rants and anger, I do get more then I give in this relationship. I have full access to all of his money, while he'll go without just so I have money available while he's gone. He suggests I go out with friends, do things, supports my hobbies and interests, and attempts to prove he loves me in ways he knows how.

 

I didn't want to hear how I should leave him. I know all of you feel it is best, and only want what is best for me, but I'm not ready to give up yet. I was hoping for some ideas or suggestions on how to handle a charged situation. A clearer way to cut through the BS that accumulates when arguing with some one. We've both done incredibly insensitve things to hurt one another over the last 2 years. I'm not very good communicating in person, I'm serverly passive aggressive. But to be honest... the man does more for me, and is there for me, more then anyone I've ever known.

 

So do I just say, "My feelings are hurt, I quit"? Or do I find a way to change things so that both of us will be happier? Should I automatically discrimate against him because he wasn't blessed to be born in the correct social class? No matter how hard he has fought to get out of that.

 

I don't know... guess I just feel that people give up too quickly. and I still am completely naive and unrealistic about the world.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

I've been wondering though. Because someone has a bad background, then they should be excluded from dating?

 

His family is atrocious! Horrible. Not one of his sisters or brother can keep a job, they do drugs, they have kids just to get more government assistance.

 

He's the opposite. I've asked him why, and he says he Never wants to be like his family was/is. And that's why he's tried so hard to distance himself from them.

 

 

My problem with him, is that he when he gets stressed or frustrated he doesn't communicate in a very healthy manner. It hurts me, and frustrates me.

 

I'm not saying he doesn't have a ton of problems, but inside a shell of egotistical bs is a really caring, sensitive man who will do anything I ask of him. Even if he absolutely does not want to.

 

So do I toss him aside because of this? I know there are things about me that are really rotten. I cheated several times on my exh. My uncle is a raging alcoholic. My father was overbearing, and had one hell of a temper. My mother is controlling and a bit narcisstic. With what every one is saying, then I too should be kicked from the dating pool.

 

 

I didn't want to hear how I should leave him. I know all of you feel it is best, and only want what is best for me, but I'm not ready to give up yet.

I don't know... guess I just feel that people give up too quickly. and I still am completely naive and unrealistic about the world.

 

 

After all of this, I am only going to answer your first question:

 

No, he shouldn't be excluded from dating. He should only be excluded from dating you.

[Outcast]

but I'm not ready to give up yet.

 

Wisdom is realizing what things are impossible. Since the impossible cannot be accomplished, ceasing the attempt is not 'quitting'. 'Quitting' implies that the goal is achievable and that you leave prior to reaching the finish point.

 

However, a person who has been so damaged by his life experiences that he cannot communicate in a productive manner and who does things to people which ought not be done to them is very often so damaged that he is beyond repair. This person sounds like one of those people.

 

So while it is painful to leave him because he isn't all bad, the fact is that you will be crushed yourself; depressed, weary, and bereft and he will not have changed if you stay.

 

Take it from someone who's been there.

[Walk]

However, a person who has been so damaged by his life experiences that he cannot communicate in a productive manner and who does things to people which ought not be done to them is very often so damaged that he is beyond repair. This person sounds like one of those people.

 

I guess I was looking at it from the perspective that all people have flaws. But this is inherently wrong, because I was subconsciously thinking the flaws could be overlooked, or could could change.

*kicking myself and my overly idealistic view of the world*

 

Thank you everyone, for the time and advice. I just needed my thoughts slapped back to reality a few times to get the point. I'm a little hard headed.

 

I did this with my ex. Kept thinking "but he's a good guy, really." and 9 years later I couldn't take his "flaws" anymore and left. All the while thinking, "he's a good guy, I'm crazy for leaving." I still left, but it took me forever to figure out what drove me out, and why. (ex wasn't much like this guy though.)

[Lishy]

The problem here Walk is that you are a NICE person!! Narcisstic people take complete advantage and you will have to realise this.

 

You can sit and say how nice he can be, how it isnt HIS fault that he had a crappy upbringing (and it ISNT his fault!) but the bottom line is this DO YOU WANT TO LIVE YOUR LIFE FEELING LIKE SHlT?

 

If the answer is no then GET OUT! If the answer is "I am not ready to leaqve this crappy life with a guy who cares when he feels like it" then stay!

 

The longer you leave it the harder it is ..... Take it from this girl who knows only too well!!

 

Love ya hon !!! xx

[NYCmitch25]

I guess I was looking at it from the perspective that all people have flaws. But this is inherently wrong, because I was subconsciously thinking the flaws could be overlooked, or could could change.

*kicking myself and my overly idealistic view of the world*

 

Thank you everyone, for the time and advice. I just needed my thoughts slapped back to reality a few times to get the point. I'm a little hard headed.

 

I did this with my ex. Kept thinking "but he's a good guy, really." and 9 years later I couldn't take his "flaws" anymore and left. All the while thinking, "he's a good guy, I'm crazy for leaving." I still left, but it took me forever to figure out what drove me out, and why. (ex wasn't much like this guy though.)

 

"So do I just say, "My feelings are hurt, I quit"? Or do I find a way to change things so that both of us will be happier? " Sorry I'm not going to let you off the hook with a rhetorical argument! Actually explaining your situation a little more has changed my opinions about it all a little more. Now I see that he is keeping you away from his family because he is ashamed of them. Also the short version of what you've told me about your family is that you will have tendencies to hook up with controlling abusive men. I can see how this guy has done a lot for you and you obviously love him unconditionally. You guys have a lot of things to work out and good professional help would be the only way to go. Finding a good help is difficult and would he want it? Perhaps you could at least have him work things out in the name of "not being like his family".