Israfil Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 I need advice on how to deal with blatant racism, in a potential friendship in the workplace. I live in a city where racism is the norm. However, I am not used to dealing with it in such an overt way. I was really speechless, and didn’t know what to do or say. Here is the story: A colleague / potential friend was giving me a ride home. I am fairly new at my job, and have just sort of begun to make friends in the workplace. During the ride home, there was of course the usual bad traffic, and my work associate made a comment equivalent to, “These fu(king N1ggers, look at how they drive” etc. etc., and proceeded to blame all traffic problems on blacks. This is not the first overt racist comment she has made to me. Frankly, I just don’t know how to deal with it. What should I have said? What I would have liked to say, in an ideal world would have been something like: “Just because I am not black, doesn’t mean that your racism doesn’t affect me just as much as it does those who you choose to belittle. While bigoted mindsets like yours exist, none of us are truly free.” Instead, I said nothing. I feel like a coward. How should I deal with this in the future? Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 I have been in your shoes...... At work and among "friends" even black friends that use the N word. Simply state that the word makes you feel uncomfortable and when you are present you do not wish to hear it. You will not solve this persons problem by getting into a pissing match about this. a4a Link to post Share on other sites
AlmostMarried77 Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 Do you really need to be friends with them? anyway - i just don't respond, I used to occasionally counter their point of view but gave up, it can be a loosing battle. If someone starts up a conversation like that or makes those comments I just start talking about something completely unrelated. Unfortunately in society most people do keep themselves to their own ethnic groups and are prone to bad mouthing other people with a different skin colour. And its not just something that white people are guilty of! However most people who do say crap like that are not actively racist, just sadly mis-informed, a bit ignorant and looking for a scape goat in a situation they don't like. Pathetic really Get it here all the time in the UK, usually i hear white people going on about the "paki's". Personally it sends a shiver down my spine every time i hear it Link to post Share on other sites
Author Israfil Posted November 22, 2005 Author Share Posted November 22, 2005 Thanks a4a. Yeah, I know that getting into an argument is not going to solve anything. It is not even so much about the word, more the attitude that I find disturbing. I was hoping I had made a friend. Almost Married, thanks aswell. No, I suppose I don't need to be friends with her, but I was hoping. I don't think she is actually a horrible person, its just so ingrained into the culture here, that it is hard to get away from. I just don't know what to do in the future. Link to post Share on other sites
Panhandler Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 hmmm if you said that, I would have let you walk home. Black people are just as racist if not 100x more racist than white people, so there's gonna be racism in everyone just deal with it. Just cause you've been brainwashed to be politically correct by tv, doesn't mean that you are right. People like to keep to their own races and classes and everything, just cause you are all interracial just see how much those black people do for you when you want a ride home. Link to post Share on other sites
AlmostMarried77 Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 just see how much those black people do for you when you want a ride home. Nice way to kill your own argument Link to post Share on other sites
Panhandler Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 No, a lot of black people are unfriendly...in my experience, I've gotten a lot of dirty looks from them, and have had few good results. One time a black guy a teacher in college actually gave me a ride up the street a bit, probably thought I was some girl or was gonna give him a few bucks though cause I was dressed nice. But I mean ehhh...I'm still racist, my mother is married to a spanish/chinese guy and I hate his guts, and I see how immoral his family is. All they do is like to drink and have sex with whoever they can, he cheats on her, and he's an a**h***, not to mention he's probably one of the nicer ones. I'd like to see him dead though to be honest, and if he took his whole race with him I wouldn't mind. Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 I think many people are just used to using the word. Which is not an excuse to use it. If this person has other good friend qualities you may not want to write them off ASAP. Maybe they had an instance in their own life where they had a run in with a black person..... ect...... again not an excuse but many people I have talked to that use the N word do have a "self justified" reason they use it. Again I am not saying its right but if you dig down to the bottom of it they may see that they are really only hurting themselves by harboring this anger and it is coming out using the N word ........ or it could be traditional use of the word. Passed down generation to generation..... You need to make the choice to tolerate it, try to change it, or delete this person from your life as much as possible. This also happens in the gay realm..... gays call each other fag, dyke ect... interesting why they do so. a4a Link to post Share on other sites
Lil Honey Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 I don't mean to change the subject, but can anyone tell me why it's wrong for any other person to use the "n" word, but it's okay for a black person to use it? I don't use the word, but I find it really confusing that in one instance, it's so "hurtful" and in the next instance, it isn't. It's the same word! Link to post Share on other sites
AlmostMarried77 Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 I don't mean to change the subject, but can anyone tell me why it's wrong for any other person to use the "n" word, but it's okay for a black person to use it? I don't use the word, but I find it really confusing that in one instance, it's so "hurtful" and in the next instance, it isn't. It's the same word! It's all about emphasis and context Take these 2 quotes: "Now theres a good looking woman" and "you f**king woman!!" I hope you get the point Link to post Share on other sites
lindya Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 No, I suppose I don't need to be friends with her, but I was hoping. I don't think she is actually a horrible person, its just so ingrained into the culture here, that it is hard to get away from. I just don't know what to do in the future. Challenging racism as being offensive and unacceptable is appropriate and necessary in some settings (eg if a black colleague was being discriminated against), but in the situation you're describing I think it would be more effective to create an atmosphere that encourages your colleague to explore (and hopefully challenge) her own views. Let her vent, and respond with neutral phrases that neither confront nor condone what she's saying. That way she gets the opportunity to hear herself talk, without being distracted by having to defend herself against accusations of bigotry. Ever noticed how the more you push someone into a position where they feel they have to defend their beliefs or prejudices, the more entrenched those prejudices seem to become? Letting them air those prejudices then just leaving them to hang in the air can be a more useful device. I find when I do that, the person will often start to defend themselves ("I'm not a racist, but...") even though I haven't said a word. They're defending themselves - not against me, but against the flash of self-awareness they've had the space and opportunity to experience. I might then "change the subject" in order to tell an anecdote about a friend. Set the scene, help to engender empathy for that friend in the listener's mind....then describe (possibly just invent) some occasion on which this friend (who, as it transpires, is black) was subjected to blatant racism. There's an art to doing it; the story mustn't be told in a way that compares the listener with the racist in the anecdote - but, rather, in a manner that assumes he/she will empathise with your friend and feel alienated from the racist in the story. When this strategy is effective the person will resume their vent - but this time it will be against the racist in the story (some people just enjoy venting, and will happily launch into a tirade about whatever subject you lay in front of them). I think this more neutral approach is quite a powerful one - and it allows you to lay out your position on racism without getting tangled into a big confrontation about it. Link to post Share on other sites
Neptune Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 This is a real easy situation to deal with and no one need be offended. When you hear that sort of talk just say....well, I know what you mean but there are a lot of good black people out there too. I really have had some great black friends over the years. After saying that they will forever keep you out of earshoot of their racism. Link to post Share on other sites
reservoirdog1 Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 I don't mean to change the subject, but can anyone tell me why it's wrong for any other person to use the "n" word, but it's okay for a black person to use it? I don't use the word, but I find it really confusing that in one instance, it's so "hurtful" and in the next instance, it isn't. It's the same word! It's the same reason that SOME gay people will use the words "dyke", "queer", and "fag". Racial epithets -- and in North America, particularly the n-word -- have been used for centuries as a collective dehumanizing noun. The n-word was commonly used by slaveowners -- it's a lot easier to justify to yourself that you engage in buying "n____s", than it is to justify that you're buying a human being. Continuing to use the term reinforces this, and leads to feelings of superiority. It's the same reason that the Nazis referred to Jews as rats or lice -- it's much easier to be cold, merciless, and willing to kill children when you convince yourself that you're not really killing children. Helps explain the fact that not all members of the SS Einsatzgruppen were clinically psychotic -- they'd allowed themselves to be convinced that they were just stamping out vermin. When members of a traditionally oppressed ethnic group or sexual orientation start self-applying the oppressive word, it's a means of "taking it back" -- reducing its historical power over them. It's also worth noting that most use of the n-word is among the members of the community who are still contending with unemployment, daily crime, strife, and lack of education (and we're obviously not talking about those who have attained newfound affluence through music or film) -- such people have risen above the word or attained power in other ways. I doubt Condoleezza Rice or Colin Powell go around using the n-word very much. Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 everyone is racist to some degree. accept it and move on. if it bothers you that much then you should dis-associate yourself from these people and if you cannot do that then just say nothing (assuming it is a work situation). Link to post Share on other sites
Author Israfil Posted November 22, 2005 Author Share Posted November 22, 2005 Wow Lindya - what great advice (as always). I only hope I can be as eloquent when the time comes. Neptune - interesting advice. I would just feel sort of trite saying the usual comment, "oh, but I have ~black~ friends" - like the token ~black~ friend is all I need in order to validate my non-racism - if that makes sense. Link to post Share on other sites
LucreziaBorgia Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 I need advice on how to deal with blatant racism I wish I knew a good answer for that. I live in the south and racism is endemic here. I am a mixed race person who looks white, so you can imagine I hear a lot of 'n1gger jokes' and stuff like that by people who don't understand or realize that I am part black. Most of the time I simply don't acknowlege it and change the subject or I'll walk away if I can. Is it bravery to stand up to someone who won't acknowledge my point or change their mind or behavior, or is it bravery to walk away unaffected? For me, the upper hand lies in how little stuff like that affects me. “These fu(king N1ggers, look at how they drive” etc. etc., and proceeded to blame all traffic problems on blacks. This is not the first overt racist comment she has made to me. Frankly, I just don’t know how to deal with it. What should I have said? Personally, I would just refuse to acknowlege it and change the subject. Or, you could simply tell her that you aren't comfortable with the language and could she not use it. You won't make her 'unracist' but you can ask her not to act that way around you. Link to post Share on other sites
lindya Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 Wow Lindya - what great advice (as always). I only hope I can be as eloquent when the time comes. Aw thanks - but the anecdote is optional (I'll only use anecdotes in that sort of situation if it feels natural to do so). Silence can be used to great effect sometimes - and really does help people to digest their own opinions. God knows, I've had some of my most blinding (and cringeworthy) flashes of self awareness when another person has responded to one of my outbursts with an inquiring, meditative gaze LB - I'm with you on the "upper hand lying in how little you're affected by it" thing. It's like gossip...once people realise how inconsequential you perceive their opinions about you to be, it just becomes infinitely less fun for them to air them. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Israfil Posted November 22, 2005 Author Share Posted November 22, 2005 everyone is racist to some degree. accept it and move on. if it bothers you that much then you should dis-associate yourself from these people and if you cannot do that then just say nothing (assuming it is a work situation). I agree. I would certainly never claim that I was not in some ways influenced (conciously or unconciously) by race. It bothered me that she was so racist, because I did see her as a potential friend. And I really do have problems being friends with someone who holds such views. It was disappointing. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Israfil Posted November 22, 2005 Author Share Posted November 22, 2005 For me, the upper hand lies in how little stuff like that affects me. As usual, LB is the wisest woman on the planet. Personally, I would just refuse to acknowlege it and change the subject. Or, you could simply tell her that you aren't comfortable with the language and could she not use it. You won't make her 'unracist' but you can ask her not to act that way around you. I hope I am brave enough to say even that. Link to post Share on other sites
Raz Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 No, a lot of black people are unfriendly...in my experience, I've gotten a lot of dirty looks from them, and have had few good results. One time a black guy a teacher in college actually gave me a ride up the street a bit, probably thought I was some girl or was gonna give him a few bucks though cause I was dressed nice. But I mean ehhh...I'm still racist, my mother is married to a spanish/chinese guy and I hate his guts, and I see how immoral his family is. All they do is like to drink and have sex with whoever they can, he cheats on her, and he's an a**h***, not to mention he's probably one of the nicer ones. I'd like to see him dead though to be honest, and if he took his whole race with him I wouldn't mind. ? He probably thought you were a girl? why? are you one of those that is hard to tell if you are a girl or a guy? like some people I see, "is that a dude or a chick?" like people are just really ugly and you can't tell ........ you must be one of those, and who the hell admits to being racist, unless they have mental problems, which you do, and then you say, took his whole race with him, what whole race? he's two races, not a whole race...... You're a fricken idiot, oh my god....... and there are white people who drink and have sex with whoever they can too, so you can't say nothin about bein racist, ever heard of white trash, what race are you anyway? Link to post Share on other sites
mikr Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 new at your job or not, putting up with that is NOT cool. you should always stand up to racist comments like that, whatever situation you are in Link to post Share on other sites
Liliana Posted November 26, 2005 Share Posted November 26, 2005 Lindya is right. And above all, if this is a 'racist' town you're working in, the most important thing is not to let it get to you. Thankfully, you already know that the constant background racism levels won't infect you with that mentality, as clearly this is something you are strongly against. If it were me though, I would guard against any feelings of bitterness that you may start to feel against colleagues who are less open minded than yourself. They are the misguided ones, and with that type of person I guess the most positive thing we can do is try to show them patience and understanding in the hope it might have some effect on the way they treat us and others. Having said that, in some cases it may just be best to avoid the worst ones! And I'm thinking there have got to be other people living/working there who come from other places, and have more empathy with your viewpoint! Link to post Share on other sites
fundamental Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 100x more racist than white people, so there's gonna be racism in everyone just deal with it. . I take it you are not black. 100x????? Link to post Share on other sites
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