He got cold feet again!

[johan]

RecordProducer, you say things just like my ex. Her thinking is the same. Every post you've written so far she might have written or said the same things about me. I guess labeling him as evil and terrible is your way of dealing with the pain. Maybe it protects you from having to face the fact that he's actually an OK guy who is confused and has conflicts.

 

My ex would do the same, because she had no capacity to look inside herself and see how she might have contributed to the problem. And she hated the idea that she was just a human woman that guys don't automatically love completely. She would never admit to doing anything wrong, or that there were things she should consider changing.

 

I'm not saying you are like her. You just sound like her. If it helps you to label him as a devil in human form who plotted to wreck your life, then go ahead. But it isn't rational, and people who don't understand are going to challenge you on it.

[Israfil]

I fear part of this' date=' is just showing that you are blaming him for a few issues and shortcomings you have yourself ... By making it out as if you did nothing wrong, and he was the devil incarnate you only accomplish one thing: that your next relationship will be one with the same mistakes as this one.[/quote']

 

d’Arthez – I think all of your post is very well-thought out and insightful. Thank you for stepping in and letting us re-examine this pity party, by turning it into something productive.

 

RP: I am so sorry that this has happened to you. ~hugs~

 

I hope that once the hurt has subsided, you will really take time to analyse your past relationship, putting your anger aside.

[Art_Critic]

Not to bust anybody's bubble but RP has literly just broken up with the guy.. Of course she is angry and of course she is blaming him..

 

She hasn't had the time to process it and reform her thoughts yet..

 

Give her time before we rip her apart and rip into the pity party.. Until then.. keep posting RP.. and as it seems you have many many friends here on LS..

[Outcast]

why the HELL did he not offer to fly you and your kids, and your mom over to see him?

 

She's got an ex and that complicates things. You usually need the other parent's permission to remove children from the country.

 

Because he is a very evil man and wanted to hurt me.

 

He's not evil for rethinking a bad plan. It is never a good idea for people in LDRs to agree to marry without having spent LOTS of time together. His brother may have gone along to make sure he didn't do something foolish having talked sense to him.

 

He is neither the personification of evil incarnate nor God's own angel on earth - both opinions which you've held. He's a regular human being who maybe realized that your 'love' was based on the fanasies people can build up at a distance and reconsidered marrying because of that. There's nothing 'evil' about it.

 

It's also hardy likely that he went to all that time, trouble, and expense of travelling all the way to your country just to dump you. If he was so 'evil', he'd have shut you off and simply ignored you forever.

 

I hope you take D'Arthez's remarks to heart. He makes a lot of sense and his advice to you is sound. Demonizing this ex and picturing yourself blameless in this situation (as in the others in your life) will only cause you to make the same or similar mistakes again.

[lindya]

Maybe Loveshack can be compared to politics in that a week is seen as a very long time.

 

This happened to RP a couple of days ago. It's devastating, and she's bearing up pretty well under the circumstances. So she feels like bad-mouthing her ex, and that's understandable Anger is all part of the grieving process.

 

So, of course, is reflection, and I know that people are encouraging RP to reflect on this experience - to gain wisdom from it in the way that we never stop gaining wisdom and self awareness from difficult life experiences.

 

On the other hand - it's been two days. RP's time for philosophical reflection will come. She's a smart girl, and she'll probably get there quicker than a lot of people do. The venting stage can't really be restricted to a mere two days, however.

 

I admire your brain immensely, d'Arthez - but I think RP needs a break here. To embark on the very difficult and painful process of self reflection it 2 days after a break up - when you're still in shock and digesting what's happened - it's just too much. When it does come, it might be something RP will decide to do in private, depending on whether or not her ex reads this forum.

 

started writing it before I read your post AC - have pretty much duplicated (in my usual long-winded manner) what you managed to say in a couple of sentences. Self reflection for Lindya - learn to be more concise!

[whichwayisup]

Can't people vent and say anything that comes into their heads without being bashed because to other's it is wrong on how she is handling it??? Give RP a break! She's running on RAW emotions right now and will be for a little while. Allow her to DO just that, don't beat her up on it! WE all react differently, handle situations the only way we know how...This is how she feels right now, so let her vent it out and feel it!

 

Hope you're doing OK RP.

[westernxer]

Demonization is definitely form of therapy that helps in the disassociation process.

 

It's not as if I've never been guilty of this... I'm just glad it's not me going through it.

[d'Arthez]

I admire your brain immensely, d'Arthez - but I think RP needs a break here. To embark on the very difficult and painful process of self reflection it 2 days after a break up - when you're still in shock and digesting what's happened - it's just too much. When it does come, it might be something RP will decide to do in private, depending on whether or not her ex reads this forum.

I am not saying that it is easy for anyone. Far from it. And yes, time is important. But what is even more important, is what RP does with the time, in the long run.

 

I am saying that yes, RP has made mistakes, and this tactic of her is not the most beneficial she could engage in. How anyone (I am not referring to anyone in partiuclar) can read bashing into that, is beyond me.

 

But, and that is suitable for a debate in a separate thread, should we chime in and say that the ex (who may be on LS, for all we know) is indeed the devil incarnate? Why? I do not think that it is not beneficial for RP in the long run.

 

And if I were deluding myself that drugs are good for me, why should anyone on LS even bother to tell me that drugs are bad for me? I will discover that a few months or years later anyway.

Because it is harmful? I am sorry, but that also applies to negative attitudes displayed. Whether defeatist, nihilistic, apathethic, thoughts can be harmful too. If thoughts of whatever are considered to be holy, that should have interesting consequences for legal matters too.

[lindya]

I am not saying that it is easy for anyone. I am saying that yes, RP has made mistakes, and this tactic of her is not the most beneficial she could engage in. How anyone can read bashing into that, is beyond me.

 

I'm not suggesting you're bashing, d'Arthez. I think different perspectives are helpful when someone's evaluating a situation, but the initial venting stage can't really be by-passed. If one tries, then sooner or later the anger will come out...often when least expected.

 

If a relationship ends badly, and the other person is trying to contact you to salve their own feelings of guilt, sometimes it just helps to be so angry with that person that you don't want to speak to them. It stops those disastrous and emotionally confusing post-break-up situations from occurring when you're least equipped to deal with them.

[Outcast]

It drives me NUTS that disagreeing with someone or not chiming in with the rest of the chorus is considered 'bashing'. It's not 'bashing' someone to try to disabuse them of ideas they have which might actually harm them, dagnab it. And sometimes if things aren't cut off early, they can get imbedded. Have you never met someone who blames the ex completely for a breakup?

 

All some of us are trying to do is to provide a perspective which might be more helpful to RP in the long run. I happen to think that 'kissing up' is far more harmful than pointing out reality to someone who's deeply mired in an illusion.

 

Anyway, this guy isn't evil or horrid or anything. His only crime was getting cold feet about marrying someone he barely knows! Maybe had one of them gotten sensible about all this much earlier and decided to delay marriage for a couple more years, this relationship could have continued to grow but by both leaping into the idea of marrying even despite not knowing each other, they landed right in the middle of a highly predictable disaster. It's too bad. Maybe they were meant for each other but they'll never know now.

 

Frankly, I don't think all this venting is helpful. It's not as if he cheated or lied - all he did was decide that rushing a marriage might not be a good idea - and whether or not RP is frustrated by being disappointed, I think she needs to analyze the situation rather than just flying off the handle at the guy. Telling her that he's an evil jerk isn't helping, IMHO, although that's what she'll want to hear.

[Art_Critic]

I've not said that anybody was bashing RP..

 

I think that a wee pat on the ass.. so to speak can't hurt..

 

When did tearing into someone about how she is handling it become the standard for good advice when the break up is only 24 hours old..

 

I have nothing against giving someone a wakeup shot of advice but I think a little time is in order first....

 

Ask yourself this.. If it was you that had JUST broken up with your BF/GF and got on to post about it and people were trying to turn you into this non thinking villan.. How would you feel ???

 

Fresh is fresh

[Outcast]

people were trying to turn you into this non thinking villan.

 

You mean like RP's boyfriend is being vilified?

 

I am always glad when someone offers me a different perspective. I am well aware of how emotion can give someone tunnel vision or lead one to mistaken conclusions and I've jumped to unpleasant conclusions about people in the past because emotion made me, only to regret having allowed that to happen.

 

Most humans aren't anything close to 'evil'. They're screwed up, have issues, have poor coping strategies and we need to understand that about the nature of the humans around us.

 

Hate and anger are poisonous emotions - understanding and forgiveness are the salves that heal and help us grow. So my wish is to understand as much as I can as soon as I can so I can move beyond negative emotions to the emotions that help me grow and have peace of mind.

 

It's ok to vent - for a little bit, but then, I think, it's necessary to pull yourself out of that loop and start looking at things in the light of reason in order to rid yourself of the poisonous emotions and move on by looking at the logic of the situation.

 

None of which constitutes an 'attack' or 'bashing'.

[Art_Critic]

Hate and anger are poisonous emotions - understanding and forgiveness are the salves that heal and help us grow.

 

 

Word.......

[lindya]

I happen to think that 'kissing up' is far more harmful than pointing out reality to someone who's deeply mired in an illusion.

 

I agree that the more analytical approach, and some reality injection is helpful when it comes to examining what went wrong and equipping oneself for future relationships. Initially, though, people in pain will often just shut down from anyone they perceive as being critical rather than supportive ...even though the adviser's intention is to be of assistance.

 

I think that everyone here is, in their own way, trying to support RP in the journey from shock and anger to a calmer place where she'll perhaps feel ready to gain some new wisdom from all of this. Some of us only really learn life's lessons by living them. It might sound foolish to those who can learn through other people's experiences... but we're all designed in different ways. A bit of tolerance for those differences, and understanding that not one of us is perfect or all-knowing goes a very long way.

[whichwayisup]

I used the word bashing...It was too strong to use, sorry about that...(I have pms too, still not an excuse but I'm seeing things from a different angle more than usual).

 

You mean like RP's boyfriend is being vilified?

 

So what? We ALL do that when we're pissed off. Right now her feelings count, his don't apply here. He has his friends and family to talk to, RP has us. So, personally, I couldn't give a s*** what he thinks/feels right now. No offense and sorry if my words are harsh today...

[whichwayisup]

Right now she is still reeling from it all. Pure emotion, raw reaction. It's OK for someone to lose it and vent away on here. She may/may not be making sense, that isn't my place or anybody else's place to tell her otherwise right now. OK, I will see your point in a month if she's still in the place she's in now, but it JUST happened like a day or two ago.

 

Support to me is helping her work deal with it, not irrationally demonizing him right with her. That's just making a bad situation worse.

I understand your point, but right now she doesn't want to hear anything otherwise. If she thinks he's the devil right now, that's how she feels and she's allowed that. It's her pain, her way of dealing with it.

 

Maybe he isn't a stalker, but he's crossing the line of her space. As I said earlier, if she wanted to talk to him, she would have picked up the phone. Him coming on here is very pushy of him.

[RecordProducer]

You guys have been soooo sweet and some things you've said really gave me a good laugh. It feels good to feel safe and protected by friends too. A bunch of kisses to all of you. I greatly appreciate all the advice I read and especially the time, energy, and concern you've ALL involved. Thank you so much!

 

I need to add something though that might have slipped in my initial post: he was the one who was talking about our future together (in very details) for months and he suggested to get married NOW and not later. I told him to take things slowly as I didn't want him to get cold feet again (like in June). I told him that I wanted a proposal first then to schedule the wedding (is that really so weird of me?) Obviously this reminds us of the story about the boy who creamed "Wolf, wolf!" many times before the shepards decided to not trust him anymore. So how many more times should he get cold feet? Should I risk to move there and be kicked out in the street after a few weeks, because he got scared or whatever? Should I live in constant fear of that?

 

I felt that something was wrong a couple days before we went through all the paperwork and I asked him many times if he was sure about this. He said "yes." I told him it's okay to change your mind, I won't break up. He said we should sh*t or get off the pot NOW. I heard so many promises from him that he broke.

 

I didn't hear anyone of you suggesting that I should give him a third chance (to get cold feet, of course). That's because you all agree with me that this should be the end. In any case, that's my decision and have no doubts regarding it.

 

If he really wanted to marry me when we were gathering the papers then why did he refuse to propose to me although I insisted that the proposal comes first? Why didn't he go buy rings and a suit and talk to me about which restaurant to pick?

 

Even if you find justification for all of his feelings, you can't find one for his lies - he said he was sure when he wasn't. I told him I wouldn't break up with him had he told me ON TIME so that's not an excuse obviously. For all I know, his message was "Yes, I am unreliable, I make promises I can't keep, aI am untrustworthy, so if you want to put up with me and stay with me, that's your choice".

 

If he wants to be sure (as in sure he doesn't risk anything) and not scared then he will never be either of it. So there is no future for us. I have no intention whatsoever to waste my time with him and I bet none of you would have the courage to tell me to take him back.

 

It's over. He chose to not be with me. He said he will eventually start dating other women. What am I supposed to do, help him get over me? There is nothing to say anymore. I don't want to pick up the phone and hear "Just know that you're wrong about me and I really love you." He keeps telling me that he made a mistake twice. So what can I do about it? He should date local women and try and live with them for a while before marrying them if he can't handle a LDR. I think this is a constructive suggestion for him. And for me, I will move on and date other people as well.

 

Johan, you invited him to tell his side of the story, but trust me, there is no such side - he has nothing to say except that he loves me. Do you believe him???

[johan]

Johan, you invited him to tell his side of the story, but trust me, there is no such side - he has nothing to say except that he loves me. Do you believe him???

 

RecordProducer,

 

I don't know what he feels. I'm always in favor of 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th chances for the right person. I don't expect certainty, or for love to be total, riskless and crystal clear all the time. I've found it to be hard and confusing sometimes, too, hence the need for many chances. I get the impression you have no idea what is really going on in his heart. Either it's because you haven't given him a chance to talk to you or it's because he can't put it in words. Maybe both. The only facts I have are that you seemed really in love and never had anything bad to say about him. He has been good to you as far as I know and seemed very caring. Now you're understandably hurt.

 

It may be that the best thing for you is to break up.

 

My bias: I'm generally against all sorts of breakups. Especially when there's a chance the problem could be fixed, and even more so when I think there is real love being thrown away.

 

I hope for the best for you. You seem like a very sweet person.

[Outcast]

Support to me is helping her deal with the emotions, not irrationally demonizing him right with her. That's just making a bad situation worse.

 

I couldn't agree more. It seems there are different philosophies on what constitutes 'support'. There's the Bush philosophy, i.e. 'if you ain't with me, yer agin' me, and there's the Don Quixote method - hold up the mirror to someone to reflect the picture back. I have never believed the former is good for people. I would never want anyone to 'support' me that way so that's why I won't support people that way.

[RecordProducer]

I hope for the best for you. You seem like a very sweet person.

Thanks!

[RecordProducer]

The fact that he probably reads my posts annoys me big time, but since this is MY territory he has stepped on, I will simply ignore him. He doesn't exist for me anymore anyway.

 

If he didn't read this thread, I would feel free to gossip about him and actually copy/paste his email, but since he is an LS member now, I don't feel it's right.

 

So I will say just this: he just sent me an email full of insults in which he belittles my feelings; he accuses me of being childish, immature, vengeful, rude, mean, and bragging about not answering his calls on LS. All this because I don't want to talk to him on the phone after he left me in misery for the second time!

[AvShiloh]

Dear Love Shack Community Members,

 

Wow! What a drama (spelled SOAP OPERA)!

 

I am the "demon" "stalker" who has been making futile attempts at calling RP.

 

The reason RP does not answer my calls is certain to surprise you, but since this is "her forum", I will leave it to her discretion to tell you. As a wise member said, "there are three sides to every story", and you've heard but one.

 

In this quagmyre, I've discovered that LoveShack is truly a wonderful, caring, and thoughtful virtual community (RP has raved about it for quite some time). I am heartened by the show of support you have shown her... bravo to you all! It may sound patronizing, but RP is truly a wonderful person, and she deserves the support.

 

I am new to this forum, so I don't want to make waves or initiate a "tit for tat" situation. I simply hope RP is smart enough to know that by not answering my calls, it is certainly my loss ... but hers too! (perhaps, if she is not too proud, she'll answer the phone) ... I'll cross my fingers

 

Again, kudos to all of you who support my loml in her time of need!

 

Av

[This_Too_Shall_Pass]

Holy......!!!! Now THIS is drama in real life!! This must be the most dramatic thread on LS yet!! If it wasn't for the sad situation, I'd be getting the popcorn out...

 

Sorry, RP...just taking a little humorous liberty there...

 

To all the discussions before Av hijacked the thread, this is what I have to say: I agree with Art_Critic, Lindya and WWIU, this is RP's moment to rave, rant and vent. Of course, a few of her comments may have been overboard - but then, show me someone who hasn't got their emotions whipped up when they're in this kind of situation.

Heck, we're given to dramatizing in our own little ways - whether out of sadness, joy, anger or even when discussing philosophy.

 

It doesn't mean RP will never take into account the rational factors for this event. But seriously, D'arthez - this isn't the time to wash over her hurt and anger with brainy and rational talk. It is not right, and it won't help. When she's past the initial stage, she will be able to see some of the rational stuff by herself. She doesn't need to be hurriedly propelled to that stage.

 

[removed remarks directed to someone other than the original poster and/or to deleted posts]

[Art_Critic]

Art, she can vilify him endlessly and he's answered with a bit of irritation but admirable restraint, IMHO. Go reread her post about him - it's full of venom. Would you not be slightly miffed at reading all that about yourself? And yet the guy says she's a 'wonderful woman' bla bla.

 

You make a vaild point Outcast... Yes I would be miffed.. but if I was trying to get my fiance back I would not be going head to head with her in a public forum. I would take some time and do some introspection and then make an attempt at fixing the issues and dealing with my problems instead of just blaming the other party

[AvShiloh]

Av

 

...I'm curious - what is your proposed solution to this situation?

 

Citizen - you did NOT marry someone with kids whose dad doesn't want to let them leave. Whole other situation.

.

 

 

Outcast,

 

Touche! As you already pointed out, my concern was not with the visa, I knew it could be had. I wish I were so sure about getting the boys!

 

As to "what is your proposed solution to this situation?", I don't have a solution formulated (yet)... no magic pearls of wisdom... I was hoping to discuss it with my Princess.

 

Av