Living with mother and living together

[Gebidozo]

Here is my situation.

I’ve been dating a wonderful woman for a couple of years now. She lived with her mother when we decided to become a couple. Shortly afterwards, I suggested that she moves to my place, and I also proposed marriage to her.

She said things were moving too fast for her, so I suggested a compromise: 4 days a week at my place and 3 days a week at her mother’s. She accepted. Yet sometimes, her mother calls her on “our” nights and tells her she needs her to go back to spend the night with her, because she isn’t feeling well. This usually happens pretty late at night, when we are about to go to sleep. My fiancée is always asking me for permission to go back to her mother and tend to her. Naturally, I agree, yet I can’t quite hide the annoyance and the disappointment. Her mother doesn’t approve of me. She wants her daughter to be together with her ex. She refuses to even meet me. It appears to me that her mother is manipulating her to stay with me as little as possible, and is trying to disrupt our life together.

I don’t know what to do. I want to marry my fiancée and live together normally. The date for that keeps getting delayed, from November last year to January this year to some unspecified time later this year. I’m aware of the fact that I’m an anxious attacher, I’m pushy and controlling. She is the opposite. I don’t know how to handle this best, I want to marry her and have her with me 7 nights a week as soon as possible, but I don’t want her to be upset or unhappy. I’m willing to compromise, but the frustration is mounting.

I really need advice, I’m not trolling. Thank you in advance for your help🙏

[Els]

I'm a bit worried for your fiancee. How old is she? It seems like she has difficulty in asserting her autonomy and standing up for herself, and unfortunately her mother and you seem to be both walking all over her. Yes, she shouldn't have to be at the beck and call of her mother that frequently in a non-emergency situation - it's not her responsibility to be a parent to her own mother. But equally so, she shouldn't have to ask your permission each time she goes to see her mother! You seem to be enabling and even encouraging her doormat tendencies, and this doesn't feel like an equal relationship.

You need to leave her be instead of continuing to push her. She needs to find her own way in this. If her marriage or cohabitation timeline doesn't work for you, then you are free to leave.

 

[Wiseman2]

If your GF needs to take care of her mother  and wants to live with her , there's no need to be annoyed or pushy and controlling. Your GF is smart to put the brakes on this and listen to trusted friends and family. 

[Gebidozo]

13 minutes ago, Els said:

I'm a bit worried for your fiancee. How old is she? It seems like she has difficulty in asserting her autonomy and standing up for herself, and unfortunately her mother and you seem to be both walking all over her. Yes, she shouldn't have to be at the beck and call of her mother that frequently in a non-emergency situation - it's not her responsibility to be a parent to her own mother. But equally so, she shouldn't have to ask your permission each time she goes to see her mother! You seem to be enabling and even encouraging her doormat tendencies, and this doesn't feel like an equal relationship.

You need to leave her be instead of continuing to push her. She needs to find her own way in this. If her marriage or cohabitation timeline doesn't work for you, then you are free to leave.

 

She is 30.

Yes, she is a very kind and selfless person that always puts the interest of the people she loves above her own ones. I told her many times that she shouldn’t be asking permission from me, and, equally, that she shouldn’t always run to her mother if she doesn’t want to, but that is her nature. 

I’m definitely not going to leave, she is a wonderful person and I’m aware of the fact that I’m extremely lucky to be with her.

It’s just that sometimes I have doubts, what if this will drag forever? What’s a good timeline for that, at which point should I become more insistent? Or do you think that I shouldn’t be pushy even if this drags on for another 2 years? Just be patient and respect her timeline?
 

[Gebidozo]

13 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

If your GF needs to take care of her mother  and wants to live with her , there's no need to be annoyed or pushy and controlling. Your GF is smart to put the brakes on this and listen to trusted friends and family. 

She doesn’t really want to live with her all the time. I asked her what she wants, and she said she enjoys both “our nights” and “Mom nights”. She seems to be satisfied with the current 4+3 arrangement we are having, but her mother isn’t happy with that, she wants her there all the time and expresses her disapproval of me.

I don’t know what the best course of action would be. I don’t want to give her the “either your mother or me” choice, that would be cruel and unfair. Yet, at the same time, I feel threatened by the fact that her mother can manipulate her like that.

[Wiseman2]

The mother and other trusted friends and family are probably warning her about all the red flags of abuse. Her mother is not "manipulating" her. 

[Els]

15 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

What’s a good timeline for that, at which point should I become more insistent? Or do you think that I shouldn’t be pushy even if this drags on for another 2 years? Just be patient and respect her timeline?

Is this a trick question...? You don't get to make her decisions for her, and being insistent/pushy with a major life decision like this will lead to nothing good (besides being incredibly unethical). You don't have to wait any longer than you are willing to wait, but your options are (1) wait, or (2) leave. Pushing her to do something that she doesn't want to do should NOT be an option. Frankly I'm concerned that you don't seem to understand this.

[Gebidozo]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

The mother and other trusted friends and family are probably warning her about all the red flags of abuse. Her mother is not "manipulating" her. 

Red flags of abuse? There is no abuse. I don’t understand what you’re talking about.

Her trusted friends are fine with me, never had any problem with them, they are all very nice and supportive.

Her mother’s main problem seems to be the fact that she wants my fiancée to be together with her ex. Her mother likes that ex and was very disappointed when my fiancée chose me over him. 

Maybe I’m wrong about her mother manipulating her, but her mother’s disapproval of me and her preference of that ex is not a secret. My fiancée says her mother wouldn’t do anything really mean to ruin our relationship, because she is “not that kind of person”, according to her. She also says that I should just be patient and wait till her mother approves of me. She said, “my Mom has no choice, sooner or later she will realize that I’ve chosen you and she’ll have to accept it. But that takes time, so please be patient”.

It’s already been a couple of years, though. I’m just wondering what kind of timeline is normally considered acceptable in such cases.

[Gebidozo]

1 minute ago, Els said:

Is this a trick question...? You don't get to make her decisions for her, and being insistent/pushy with a major life decision like this will lead to nothing good (besides being incredibly unethical). You don't have to wait any longer than you are willing to wait, but your options are (1) wait, or (2) leave. Pushing her to do something that she doesn't want to do should NOT be an option. Frankly I'm concerned that you don't seem to understand this.

No, I understand this. I don’t want to be pushy, I’m trying to find another solution.

I just thought that living together / marrying is something two people decide together. If one partner, say, wants to do it after 1 year, and the other partner, say, after 5 years, then the partners find a compromise - say, do it after 3 years. Isn’t that how those things are supposed to work?

 

[Sony12]

9 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

No, I understand this. I don’t want to be pushy, I’m trying to find another solution.

I just thought that living together / marrying is something two people decide together. If one partner, say, wants to do it after 1 year, and the other partner, say, after 5 years, then the partners find a compromise - say, do it after 3 years. Isn’t that how those things are supposed to work?

 

Is her father in her life? I ask this because you look to be a tad older than her. You said she is 30 but you have down as being in the 45-54 age range. Does she view you as a bit of a parental figure as well and that is why she is doing things like asking your permission on stuff? If there is a significant age difference between you two that could be why her mother isn't approving of you.

Edited March 7 by Sony12

[Gebidozo]

6 minutes ago, Sony12 said:

Is her father in her life? I ask this because you look to be a tad older than her. You said she is 30 but you have down as being in the 45-54 age range. Does she view you as a bit of a parental figure as well and that is why she is doing things like asking your permission on stuff? If there is a significant age difference between you two that could be why her mother isn't approving of you.

Her parents are divorced, but she has a good relationship with her father. Her father is 75, much older than her mother.

I’m 48. Her mother’s disapproval of me has little to do with our age difference, because her ex is about the same age. She likes older men in general.

[Els]

19 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

No, I understand this. I don’t want to be pushy, I’m trying to find another solution.

I just thought that living together / marrying is something two people decide together. If one partner, say, wants to do it after 1 year, and the other partner, say, after 5 years, then the partners find a compromise - say, do it after 3 years. Isn’t that how those things are supposed to work?

 

No... you wait until both people are ready. The person who is ready earlier can choose to leave if they aren't willing to wait, but they are not entitled to push the other person to make a major decision that they're not ready for.

[Gebidozo]

Just now, Els said:

No... you wait until both people are ready. The person who is ready earlier can choose to leave if they aren't willing to wait, but they are not entitled to push the other person to make a major decision that they're not ready for.

I understand. That’s what my best friend told me, too. Other people told me that I was being “held in a limbo” and that I shouldn’t be “jerked around” like that. But I’m beginning to think that my best friend’s (and your) opinion is the right one.

I guess that settles it, then. I need to learn to be more patient and less pushy.

Thank you for your advice, Els🤝

[d0nnivain]

It seems pretty simple to me -- buy a 2 family house or at least something with an inlaw suite.  

The mom is scared that she is going to be left alone.  I suggest having mom over to your house for dinner every so often & do the occasional outing with mom.  She needs to see that she's gaining a son, not losing a daughter.  

Edited March 7 by d0nnivain

[Gebidozo]

4 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

It seems pretty simple to me -- buy a 2 family house or at least something with an inlaw suite.  

Yes, we have discussed that. I said I was willing to buy a larger house and her mother can come and live with us. The problem is that her mother doesn’t approve of me at all. She doesn’t even want to meet me, let alone live in my house. She can’t accept her daughter’s breaking up with her ex so that she could be with me.

Edited March 7 by Gebidozo

[Sony12]

7 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

Yes, we have discussed that. I said I was willing to buy a larger house and her mother can come and live with us. The problem is that her mother doesn’t approve of me at all. She doesn’t even want to meet me, let alone live in my house. She can’t accept her daughter’s breaking up with her ex so that she could be with me.

Were they in a serious relationship when she decided to end it? Were you the other man for a period of time?

[Gebidozo]

Just now, Sony12 said:

Were they in a serious relationship when she decided to end it? Were you the other man for a period of time?

They were in a serious, though on-and-off relationship, for 11 years. He wanted to marry her. 

I wasn’t really “the other man”. There was a short period (a couple of weeks) when she was deciding whom to be with, and then she chose me and we got together.

[Gebidozo]

22 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

It seems pretty simple to me -- buy a 2 family house or at least something with an inlaw suite.  

The mom is scared that she is going to be left alone.  I suggest having mom over to your house for dinner every so often & do the occasional outing with mom.  She needs to see that she's gaining a son, not losing a daughter.  

Just saw your edit.

I wish that were possible! I suggested exactly that several times. I bought her mother very expensive presents. All in vain. She doesn’t want to meet me. She thinks her daughter should be with her ex, not with me. 

[Sony12]

4 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

They were in a serious, though on-and-off relationship, for 11 years. He wanted to marry her. 

I wasn’t really “the other man”. There was a short period (a couple of weeks) when she was deciding whom to be with, and then she chose me and we got together.

Well obviously the mother liked her daughters ex and probably feels like he was a better match for her daughter than you are. And very well may think her daughter did him wrong.

There is nothing you can do about that though now and all you can do overtime is prove you are a good match for her daughter as well.

[Gebidozo]

Just now, Sony12 said:

Well obviously the mother liked her daughters ex and probably feels like he was a better match for her daughter than you are. And very well may think her daughter did him wrong.

There is nothing you can do about that though now and all you can do overtime is prove you are a good match for her daughter as well.

Yes, I’m beginning to realize that is the only solution.

A difficult thing for an impatient person like me. 

At times I panic and wonder whether I’ll ever be able to prove to her mother that I’m good enough for her daughter. 

[ShyViolet]

3 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

I don’t know what to do. I want to marry my fiancée and live together normally.

She has already shown you that she has no intentions of making this happen.  You have two choices, you can accept this situation as it is or end the relationship.  Being pushy and controlling is not going to work, and frankly that is completely disrespectful and will backfire on you.  She is making no effort whatsoever to change this situation.  She is content the way it is.  Accepting this completely is the price of admission in this relationship.

46 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

At times I panic and wonder whether I’ll ever be able to prove to her mother that I’m good enough for her daughter. 

It's very naive of you to think you can "prove" this to her.  It sounds like her mother is set in her ways and has made her decision about you.  You need to learn that you can't control other people.

[MsJayne]

Sounds like Mum is manipulative and controlling. If your fiancee's been living with this all of her life it's probably the reason her last relationship didn't work out, and it's also probably the reason she's attracted to pushy and controlling men. Your fiance is enabling both you and her mother, and both of you should stop making demands of her. With regard to Mum ringing late at night, this is just rude and selfish, (unless she has a serious illness or another very good reason), but the only person who can put a stop to it is your fiancee. Does your fiancee recognise that her mother's deliberately interfering in her life or that she's being manipulated into playing the role of parent? It's good that you acknowledge that you're controlling, but do you also acknowledge that controlling behaviour is a type of abuse? 

 

[ExpatInItaly]

3 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

She also says that I should just be patient and wait till her mother approves of me.

I don't doubt she would like her mother's blessing, but it also may be acting as a convenient excuse because your finacée doesn't isn't ready to move forward in your relationship and doesn't have the courage to be totally honest with you. 

 

 

[basil67]

4 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

What’s a good timeline for that, at which point should I become more insistent? Or do you think that I shouldn’t be pushy even if this drags on for another 2 years? Just be patient and respect her timeline?

What part of you thinks it's a good idea to be insistent about her spending more time with you?   Thing is, if spending more time with you at the expense of her mother was her preference, she'd already be doing it.    That said, you also don't want to wait forever.   All you can do is observe her behaviour and make a decision for yourself accordingly.

Also, you're not going to win points with mom by buying expensive gifts.   What mom needs to see in order to come around is that her daughter is happy and content

[Wiseman2]

Since you don't live together, if her staying at your place annoys you, simply invite her over less. Keep in mind some women who aren't ready to leave abusive relationships have someone "check in", so they have an escape. For example it's interesting that the mother calls regularly while she's at your place and she doesn't silence the phone.