Tomorrow is the BIG day

[jack]

Brief update: phone call at 2:00 in the morning last night from my ex.. She called 3 times before I picked up. We talked keeping it fairly casual. Told her I was thinking of dumping the girl I was seeing.. not ready for another serious relationship right now.. nothing to do with her. She responded that I hoped I knew it would change nothing. The rest was idle chit chat.

 

Tomorrow we are spending the entire day together. Going to pick up my new puppy (she loves dogs), I have 3, going horseback riding (she loves horses). There is still a barrier between us, hopefully tomorrow will help to remove it. She is sending some really mixed signals. I think she wants back but isn't quite ready. I don't plan to push anything & hope to keep the day fun & easy on the relationship talk. I really wish I knew what the hell she is thinking & what she wants from me right now. Ladies any ideas?????

[Tony T]

Sounds like you're the man with the plan. Just be cool and don't take things too fast.

 

As far as speculating on what she is thinking, she is likely very confused at this point. That's absolutely fine. I stay confused most of the time.

 

Be patient and don't push things. You'll be fine.

[Laurynn]

You wrote:

 

"Told her I was thinking of dumping the girl I was seeing.. not ready for another serious relationship right now.. nothing to do with her. She responded that I hoped I knew it would change nothing."

 

You told your ex, the ex you're dying to go back out with that you're "thinking of DUMPING" the girl that you've been seeing? This is by far, the strangest reconciliation strategy I've ever read in all my 34 yrs. Why in God's name are you even SEEING someone else if you're wanting so desperately to get back with your ex? If I was dating someone and they ended it with me (claiming I didn't pay enough attention to them/the reasons she dumped you), the LAST thing I'd do is immediately start "dating" (aka: using) someone.....that is asinine....just makes it look like you're "movin' on"......it's crazy, Jack.

 

And why are you continuing to "see" a girl you're clearly not at all interested in? You are only using this other girl. How would you feel if someone used you? That is heartless, cruel, low, deceitful and dirty.

 

Geezus, usually when you're trying to get back together with someone, you don't start seeing other people, that is so bizarre.

 

Now as for her comment, after you relayed the above to her, "She responded that I hoped I knew it would change nothing"......it's there in black and white, Jack....she's telling you that she's NOT INTERESTED.

 

What I don't understand though, is why she's calling you 3 times in the middle of the night. Isn't she seeing someone herself? (you know, the guy you hope gets hurt/who allegedly STOLE HER from you?).........why are you putting up with some chick who dumped you, makes it clear she doesn't want to get back with you, is seeing someone else..but has her nose in your business/wants you to call her after your dates and give her a report/calls in the middle of the night (OBVIOUSLY to see if you're home/if you're alone).

 

What bothers me the most in all this is the fact that you're using another human being as part of your "plan/game".......like I said before, this girl you're seeing, you claim she's aware that you're not looking for something serious and that you're still 'hung up' on your ex......but as a woman, I can't imagine any other woman being "willing to settle" for some guy who's hung up on his ex. There's no way an intelligent woman would be part of that scenario.....so that leads me to believe that you're not being 100% up front with her, and you're clearly using her.......keeping her there on the side until (if?) you're able to get back with your ex, then you'll dump her butt. How mean. Don't you have a conscience?

 

L

[Buckeyegal]

Now Laurynn, *nudge nudge* who are we to judge this misguided guy? Just because he is obviously using this other girl, trying to drive his ex back into his arms in a fit of jealousy, doesn't mean that he's heartless and cruel or a game player, not at all. So what if the new girl gets hurt, after all, he's taught her a valuable lesson in life, dontcha think? She should be thanking her lucky stars! Afterall, people who are open, honest and upfront in their relationships don't have a clue, do they? When they have relationship difficulties, they make a sincere...note, sincere, not calculatingly sincere...effort to fix it, or if it's beyond repair, move on. What fools they are! They could be having so much more fun and success Jack's way.

[Buckeyegal]

Ok Jack, you asked for ideas, constructive advice. First of all you should drop all the pretenses, manipulations, games etc. If you really love her, then tell her. If you screwed up, than admit it. You said she broke up with you because she felt neglected...if she decides that she wants to try and make it work, then make every effort to be a more generous person with your time, your attention, your feelings, your love, never take anything for granted. Make this effort for yourself, not to just save the relationship...because sometimes even making every effort fails, sometimes once love is gone it's hard to get back, it may be to late for this particular relationship. If that's the case, you don't get back with your ex, then let this be a lesson learned to take into your next relationship. You shouldn't neglect love, take it for granted, or push it in the background. Because, as you've found out, love needs to be nourished and attended to, if not it can wither away and die.

[jack]

Now Laurynn, *nudge nudge* who are we to judge this misguided guy? Just because he is obviously using this other girl, trying to drive his ex back into his arms in a fit of jealousy, doesn't mean that he's heartless and cruel or a game player, not at all. So what if the new girl gets hurt, after all, he's taught her a valuable lesson in life, dontcha think? She should be thanking her lucky stars! Afterall, people who are open, honest and upfront in their relationships don't have a clue, do they? When they have relationship difficulties, they make a sincere...note, sincere, not calculatingly sincere...effort to fix it, or if it's beyond repair, move on. What fools they are! They could be having so much more fun and success Jack's way.

 

How many times do I have to mention that I was totally upfront with this other girl??? She knows the situation & still wants to hang out with me. I'm introducing her to new people, and she is making alot of new friends. She needed someone to get her out of the house after her breakup & she may well find a serious guy out of the deal. Think of it as two wounded hearts conforting each other before going off to battle again.

 

As for an update on the BIG DAY. Very good, very strange, very confusing. I ended up buying her a horse that we will be boarding at the dog breaders ranch. We will be spending alot more time together riding. We definately made giant progress. Today she tells her guy we went to pick up the pup & I bought her a horse that we will be riding weekends together. I don't know if she is naive but she somehow thinks that because we are now close "friends" her guy will understand & deal with this information. I wish I could see his reaction.

[jack]

Just read your second post Buckeygal.

 

"Make an effort to be a more generous person with your time, your attention, your feelings, your love, never take anything for granted."

 

EXACTLY!!!!!! But how the hell do you think I can show her I'm making this effort you are talking about??? I have to SPEND TIME WITH HER. When she broke up with me she obviously didn't want to spend anymore time with me. Now she does and I can show her that I am making that effort.

[Buckeyegal]

Read my post again Jack...I said IF she decides she wants to reconcile with you, I also said this is a lesson to be learned, try not to make that same mistake again in any future relationships. Maybe it's too late for this relationship, she's told you that she only wants to remain friends, she has another guy. Why obsess over her and shower her with extravagant gifts? She told you that even if you dump this other girl, that it changes nothing, so what's the point?

 

You say that you love her, but you may have to accept the fact that even if you change, that it may be too late. Breakups happen all the time, and as painful as it is, all you can do is move on and learn and hopefully grow from them.

Just read your second post Buckeygal. "Make an effort to be a more generous person with your time, your attention, your feelings, your love, never take anything for granted."

 

EXACTLY!!!!!! But how the hell do you think I can show her I'm making this effort you are talking about??? I have to SPEND TIME WITH HER. When she broke up with me she obviously didn't want to spend anymore time with me. Now she does and I can show her that I am making that effort.

 

[jack]

Why would she want to reconcile unless she could see that I've made those changes you are talking about???? I've talked the talk before so she wouldn't buy my promises. By weaseling my way back into her life I can see she that she is constantly surprised by the changes and efforts I am making to do exactly the things you mentioned. And she is remembering many other good things that we shared.

Read my post again Jack...I said IF she decides she wants to reconcile with you, I also said this is a lesson to be learned, try not to make that same mistake again in any future relationships. Maybe it's too late for this relationship, she's told you that she only wants to remain friends, she has another guy. Why obsess over her and shower her with extravagant gifts? She told you that even if you dump this other girl, that it changes nothing, so what's the point? You say that you love her, but you may have to accept the fact that even if you change, that it may be too late. Breakups happen all the time, and as painful as it is, all you can do is move on and learn and hopefully grow from them.

[Owl]

I hate to get involved in this discussion, but what the heck!

 

Jack, I must say that your concept of being upfront with this girl is just that -- your concept. As has been pointed out before, no sane woman would knowingly and willingly put herself in the situation this girl is in, so either she's genuinely bananas (a possibility) or your efforts to be up front with her haven't been clear and/or haven't registered. If she's a wounded heart in need of comfort, then being used as a temporary placeholder destined for Dumpsville is the last thing she needs or wants! It's blindingly, shockingly obvious to all who've kept up with this saga, should any of it be true, that she hasn't been made aware or hasn't allowed herself to become aware of the situation.

 

Let me ask you this. When you were "up front" with her, what exactly did you say?

 

If you said "Hey (((insert girl's name here)))! While we're seeing each other, I feel it's important you know you're not my first choice. You're not even my girlfriend right now, just a placeholder. Don't go getting any ideas! Please don't think my infatuation with my ex is a passing thing, that if you lavish enough attention on me my affection will transfer to you. It simply won't happen -- ever -- as I honestly have zero long-term interest in you. I hope you understand."

 

If that is what you said to her, then yes, she's aware of the situation as you've posted it on this forum, and any hurt she suffers is a direct result of her own stupidity. However, I'm very much doubting that was said.

 

Please listen Jack. Many women will accept a less than ideal situation in the hope they can turn it into something better. Are you SURE that's not what's going on here? Did you state unambiguously, without games, hints or double-entendres that your relationship with her had NO long-term prospects? "I'm not looking for anything long-term right now" or "I'm not looking for anything serious right now" or "I'm still a bit hung up on my ex right now" is NOT good enough. If you wish to use her like this, you must be crystal clear and absolutely final when you say your relationship will NOT go anywhere and that she is a mere substitute. Only then can you be certain she knows what's going on. Have you done that? Expecting her to know these things because they're "common knowledge" is likewise not good enough.

 

This whole situation is so improbable and unbelievable that if I was in her place it wouldn't register with me either! Like I said before, either she's bananas or the concept has just not penetrated like you think it has. That might be her fault, or it might be yours, but the responsibility lies with YOU to rectify the situation. Your version, that she knows the situation and is okay with it, is baloney.

 

There's one more thing I have to add, because it surprised me when I read it, even more than the rest of your posts, and prompted me to wade into this discussion for the first time. It is, in fact, so contradictory and non-sensical that I'm wondering if your problems are for real. Have you made this whole thing up because it makes a good story? Anonymous internet forums attract more than their share of story-tellers because there's no way to verify anything. That would also explain why you reply to practically every post and keep posting even though you know it will draw nothing but more criticism. Is that what's going on here? Is this whole thing made up?

 

Anyway, here it is. In reference to your ex and her new guy, you wrote:

 

I don't know if she is naive but she somehow thinks that because we are now close "friends" her guy will understand & deal with this information. I wish I could see his reaction.

 

Now Jack, I must ask you, why is it her new guy will react badly? You wrote it, so you must know! Repeat after me -- because he'll be upset she's seeing someone else at the same time she's seeing him. Now, isn't this acknowledging that learning your boyfriend/girlfriend is using you is a hurtful, painful thing? You're the one who said your ex was naive for thinking otherwise. So why do you think your new girl will be okay with it? You've consistently denied that you're using or abusing her in any way, but here you've demonstrated you're aware of how this sort of thing should make people feel.

 

There are exactly two possibilities here. One, you're in major self-denial about the way your new girl is interpreting the situation; and two, that this whole story is made up, or at least massively exaggerated, and has taken on a life of its own.

 

Whatever. My first post on this subject will be my last.

How many times do I have to mention that I was totally upfront with this other girl??? She knows the situation & still wants to hang out with me. I'm introducing her to new people, and she is making alot of new friends. She needed someone to get her out of the house after her breakup & she may well find a serious guy out of the deal. Think of it as two wounded hearts conforting each other before going off to battle again. As for an update on the BIG DAY. Very good, very strange, very confusing. I ended up buying her a horse that we will be boarding at the dog breaders ranch. We will be spending alot more time together riding. We definately made giant progress. Today she tells her guy we went to pick up the pup & I bought her a horse that we will be riding weekends together. I don't know if she is naive but she somehow thinks that because we are now close "friends" her guy will understand & deal with this information. I wish I could see his reaction.

[Laurynn]

Yeah, she MAY see all the effort you're making *now*, but she's likely not stupid....she likely knows that right now, you're doing ANYTHING to get her back/get her to give you another chance......she's probably wondering if your newfound attentiveness is for real or just a ploy to reconcile.

 

Also, if you're so in love with her and wanting to show her how you've changed, how is dating some other chick helpful to your situation? All it looks like is that you're a) trying to make her jealous (you think she respects this 'game'?)..or b) you can't handle being single so you had to rush out and find the first girl you met.

 

I don't know why this is so hard for you to grasp but when you're trying to make amends and making a last ditch effort to reestablish a 2 yr relationship with someone who dumped you, you don't go out dating other people ....and you sure as heck don't TELL them about your dates *shaking head*

 

L

[Laurynn]

I don't believe what I just read.

 

It's pretty clear from your post that your EX is still dating this other guy......but you went out today and bought her a horse? LOL Holy sheep sh*t on a stick. Geez, nothing like trying to BUY someone's affection/love. Are you nutz? What's next, a house in the hills? You don't win someone back by luring them with material goods....they come back to you because it's meant to be/they LOVE you. What the hell are you going to do if she continues to date the guy she's dating? You going to buy her a whole team of horses?

 

And frankly, your EX is a manipulative b*tch. What right does she have to be dating someone else, knowing you're anxious to win her back and ACCEPT you buying a horse for her? She sounds like a total user/loser to me. Boy did she luck out......she got herself a horse (that can't be cheap!) and you got your hopes built up. Sorry to say fella, but you're a total sucker who's living in la-la land.

 

L

[jack]

I know this whole thing is wacked. I really appreciate hearing from the sane people on this forum. We were getting along so well, I was sure we were all but reconciled when I bought the horse. It wasn't until the drive home that I realised she still wasn't quite ready to plunge back in. I don't know how she can accept this gift & keep spending time with me while she's seeing this guy. She told me she doesn't think she loves him.

 

She's not playing this whole thing like I am, she just likes to "see how things go". I think she's really confused, mabe she does like this guy but sees I've changed & isn't ready to cut me loose. I was a real bastard the past few months we were together & this new improved Jack is really throwing her for a loop. I don't know what the hell she is thinking. Her actions & words have me so confused I don't know which way is up. I am giving her the benefit of the doubt for now and am going to continue on this path and see where it leads us....me.

[Laurynn]

Make no mistake, this dame is playing you like a fiddle. If she was a decent, honorable woman with integrity, she would have NEVER allowed you to buy her a horse, considering the whole situation.

 

I'm trying to put myself in her shoes. If I ended a relationship with someone I'd been with for 2 yrs (that's a significant amount of time), then immediately started dating someone else...and my ex was doing everything under the sun to win me back....and then he bought me something MAJOR (I'm thinkin' that a horse is considered a major purchase), there's no way, in good conscience, that I'd be able to accept it. To me, it would be WRONG. It would be using my ex, it would be 'leading my ex on' to accept it. I wouldn't let my ex buy me lunch at McDonalds....but I guess that's just me.

 

Okay, so you didn't treat her all that well towards the end of your relationship, you made mistakes. Guess what? You're human! What matters is that you REALIZE you made mistakes and if given the chance, you're ready/willing and able to be a different man.

 

The way I see it, your EX KNOWS you want very much to get back with her, surely that can't be a secret. She's using this to her advantage. She's getting her cake and eating it too. She's burning the candle at both ends. She has the other guy, and she has you.....and now you're buying her horses.

 

She spent 2 yrs with you...surely you have some great qualities, you two had some great times together. I hate to say it, Jack, but it's not a 'good thing' that she's dating someone else. You sure *that* wasn't going on before you and she broke up? You sure she didn't dump you because she "found" him? Women, as a rule, don't generally jump from one long term relationship into another relationship (that's more something men do).........

 

You need to be tough here. You shouldn't have to 'share' the affections and attention of a woman with anyone. You and she have a significant history together. If she can't piss or get off the pot, too bad for her. You're catering to her needs, being so nice to her, buying her livestock and such, all that's doing is putting her in a place where she doesn't have to decide.........

 

You need to totally break off contact with her for a week or more......if she asks why, just tell her: This is crazy, insert her name here ...."we were together for 2 years. Yes, I screwed up and wasn't a good boyfriend at the end there, but I've realized my shortcomings and I've sincerely learned a lot. You know how I feel about you, but as long as you're dating someone else this is really pointless from where I stand, and I can't remain a part of your life like this when you're involved with him, it's just not right."

 

If someone is meant to be in your life/if a relationship is meant to be, IT WILL BE. Stop trying to force the issue. All you're doing is putting her in a really sweet position, where she has two men fighting over her. Is she really worth that?

 

As for the horse, consider it yours. Nevermind going riding with her, let her new man buy her a horse.

 

She is playing you like a fiddle and taking full advantage of the fact that you may have screwed up at the end there. She can't have her cake and eat it too. TIme for you to get tough and put yourself first here. Do you really want to fight for a woman who's now likely sleeping with some other dude?

 

L

[jack]

Don't some women like a guy who will fight for them? She thought I didn't love her, now she is seeing how much I do. By backing off I am afraid she's going to think I don't care one way or the other.

 

We are definately in the process of building back what first brought us together and severing ties now just seems the wrong thing to do when we are in the middle of healing past wounds. The fact that she accepted the horse does have me a bit bothered but we had talked about getting one together many times & she has dreamed of owning one since she was a little girl. I'm writing it off as being blinded by a dream becoming reality for now.

 

I really don't think she's thinking past the fact that she now has a horse to how that affects the relationships she is currently engaged in. I know she didn't start seeing the other guy until a week after we broke up and at that time she was in a real state of emotional confusion. There were many external factors besides our breakup contributing to her emotional state. I'm sure this guy, whether he knows it or not, caught her while she was weak, offered her comfort & now she's finding out she they don't have what it takes. She may also not want to hurt him because he offered her comfort, while I didn't, when she needed it.