Why Do I choose abusive men?

[Argentina]

I am recently separated from my husband after several years of abuse. This abuse was emotional, verbal and physical. My marriage prior to that (10 years ago) was also abusive on a physical and emotional level. Both these men have deep issues surrounding their self-esteem. The first was often depressed and suicidal. The second appears more confident and happy with himself but cannot let go of past issues and forgive anything. eg: he is still angry that 3 years ago I was in a snappy mood one day and refused to put away his videos in the shed. His reaction to that "I am a hard working man. How can you disrespect me like that. I don't ask for much" He also has a lot of unresolved issues from his child-hood and his mother treated him badly.

What I really want to know is why I keep choosing men like this. I am not a wall-flower. I am confident and independent and stick up for myself when I have to. I did not have anything terrible happen to me in my childhood. I thought with my second husband I had chosen someone more confident and secure in themselves. However, the truth started to emerge a few years later. Am I missing some really obvious signs? Any ideas. Most of my family and friends think I am a "bad picker of men" so how do I get it right next time?

[Outcast]

Men with poor self-esteem can be drawn to strong, confident women. I think they hope they can gain some of the confidence they lack by osmosis.

 

As for signs, you'd have to go back over the relationship to sort that out. Did you see regular flashes of irrational temper (too angry over trifles) when you were dating but you made excuses ? (he's tired/stressed/hungry etc etc) Did they have road rage? Were they impatient or jealous and you just thought 'that's the way guys are' or some such thing? What about your parents? How did your dad treat your mom? Is it possible that these men had some of the good traits your dad has so you gravitate to them?

[sparticuss]

When a man, (any man, not just an abuser) says to your face that you have no respect for him then you have a problem. Then you truly have no respect.

And love and respect are the two cornerstonesof any relationships.

 

Abuse victims pick abusers for several reasons.

-After the abuse theres all the lovey dovey apologies, the makng up, the gifts, the emotional blackmail. etc.

 

Far less boring than a regular loving relationship

 

- After the divorce you can take the moral high ground and use it to take him to the cleaners for everything he's got.

A regular marriage results in a 50 50 split of asetts.

 

 

You are not alone here. A few male abusers abuse all the women in the lives.

 

But far more common are the stories of victims who are abused in every relationship. Often by men who have never abused a woman beofre, and never abuse a woman again after they break up and move on.

 

Now the following book really sums it up.

 

Erin Pizzey was the founder of a women's shelter in Chiswick, England, the first modern battered women's shelter in the world. She found that of the first 100 women who came to her shelter, 62 were as or more violent than the partners they tried to escape from -- only to return to their partners time and again because of their addiction to pain and violence, violence that they persistently did their best to bring about. Over a period of ten years, Erin Pizzey became involved with about 5,000 women and their children who came through her shelter. She has written a number of books on domestic violence, one of which, Prone to Violence, addresses the issue of women's abuse and violence.

 

 

 

 

I am recently separated from my husband after several years of abuse. This abuse was emotional, verbal and physical. My marriage prior to that (10 years ago) was also abusive on a physical and emotional level. Both these men have deep issues surrounding their self-esteem. The first was often depressed and suicidal. The second appears more confident and happy with himself but cannot let go of past issues and forgive anything. eg: he is still angry that 3 years ago I was in a snappy mood one day and refused to put away his videos in the shed. His reaction to that "I am a hard working man. How can you disrespect me like that. I don't ask for much" He also has a lot of unresolved issues from his child-hood and his mother treated him badly.

What I really want to know is why I keep choosing men like this. I am not a wall-flower. I am confident and independent and stick up for myself when I have to. I did not have anything terrible happen to me in my childhood. I thought with my second husband I had chosen someone more confident and secure in themselves. However, the truth started to emerge a few years later. Am I missing some really obvious signs? Any ideas. Most of my family and friends think I am a "bad picker of men" so how do I get it right next time?

[Neptune]

That`s just the way life is. If not for but one fault you could be a queen. I have seen women that take your breath away stay with a man that treats them like sh*t. Life is a mystery. People have problems. Sometimes it cannot be expained.

 

There is a type of man that is always on the sidelines watching this drama play itself out. He would be your king if you let him. However, no one has ever seen a dove turn into an eagle. You will be who you are.

[sparticuss]

That`s just the way life is. If not for but one fault you could be a queen. I have seen women that take your breath away stay with a man that treats them like sh*t. Life is a mystery. People have problems. Sometimes it cannot be expained.

 

There is a type of man that is always on the sidelines watching this drama play itself out. He would be your king if you let him. However, no one has ever seen a dove turn into an eagle. You will be who you are.

 

He isn't a dove Neptune. He is already an eagle. But he is sitting on the sidelines because ALL of the females have no respect for him and ALL of them call him a turkey for no other reason that all the rest of the girls call him a turkey.

 

These guys are eagles, not turkeys. But the girls who call them turkeys are nothing but sheep.

[blind_otter]

I am recently separated from my husband after several years of abuse. This abuse was emotional, verbal and physical. My marriage prior to that (10 years ago) was also abusive on a physical and emotional level. Both these men have deep issues surrounding their self-esteem. The first was often depressed and suicidal. The second appears more confident and happy with himself but cannot let go of past issues and forgive anything. eg: he is still angry that 3 years ago I was in a snappy mood one day and refused to put away his videos in the shed. His reaction to that "I am a hard working man. How can you disrespect me like that. I don't ask for much" He also has a lot of unresolved issues from his child-hood and his mother treated him badly.

What I really want to know is why I keep choosing men like this. I am not a wall-flower. I am confident and independent and stick up for myself when I have to. I did not have anything terrible happen to me in my childhood. I thought with my second husband I had chosen someone more confident and secure in themselves. However, the truth started to emerge a few years later. Am I missing some really obvious signs? Any ideas. Most of my family and friends think I am a "bad picker of men" so how do I get it right next time?

 

Wow, I was just thinking this about me, and I am interested in the replies.

[lindya]

Am I missing some really obvious signs? Any ideas. Most of my family and friends think I am a "bad picker of men" so how do I get it right next time?

 

 

Some people clearly do have an abusive mindset. They have perhaps grown up in a family environment that left them believing there is no middle ground. No scope for friendship between a man and a woman - or husband and wife. To them marriage or romantic relationships are essentially a power struggle in which one party must emerge as the abuser, and the other as the victim.

 

An individual who thinks that way clearly isn't good partner material for anyone who wants a healthy and well balanced relationship. I'm certainly not going to name any poster names, but now and again you'll read a post here and immediately think "Jesus H - only someone who was completely out of their tree would get involved with him/her." And yet people do. Time and time again.

 

The problem is, of course, that many other people who have an abusive mindset are quite adept at concealing it. To help a person take off their mask and show you who they really are, it's important to let them speak freely and to avoid making too many judgements that will only restrict the flow of useful information. You also need to avoid constantly giving out clues as to what your perfect partner would be like. Those clues will be picked up by an abuser and used to form an appropriate mask....and that mask might remain in place until you've got completely embroiled (emotionally and financially) with them.

 

I don't think it's always a case of a person being a perpetual victim and deliberately (though unconsciously) selecting abusive partners - though certainly that does seem to happen in many cases. Some people are just so keen to find goodness in others that they will ignore all sorts of clear warning signs. Always a good idea to stay alert to and investigate warning signs...however much you wish they weren't there.

[blind_otter]

I don't think it's always a case of a person being a perpetual victim and deliberately (though unconsciously) selecting abusive partners - though certainly that does seem to happen in many cases. Some people are just so keen to find goodness in others that they will ignore all sorts of clear warning signs. Always a good idea to stay alert to and investigate warning signs...however much you wish they weren't there.

 

This struck a chord for me. I do give people the benefit of the doubt way more than I should. It's like I feel like I have to. Like so many people have helped me out...

 

I push away healthier men because I feel like they don't deserve a messed up dirtbag like me.

[lindya]

I push away healthier men because I feel like they don't deserve a messed up dirtbag like me.

 

I've been spending the last year feeling like and doing that too, and I think that's when you just have to take time out away from romantic relationships altogether. The worst thing to do is plunge into a destructive relationship with someone abusive. I'm sure, Otter, that when you do get some equilibrium within yourself, you'll be a lot more sorted than most - as your posts always sound pretty intelligent and insightful.

[blind_otter]

I've been spending the last year feeling like and doing that too, and I think that's when you just have to take time out away from romantic relationships altogether. The worst thing to do is plunge into a destructive relationship with someone abusive. I'm sure, Otter, that when you do get some equilibrium within yourself, you'll be a lot more sorted than most - as your posts always sound pretty intelligent and insightful.

 

I've started to believe that intlligence is a curse. It's like you get to watch this pantomine of insanity as you do these crazy things and you know exactly why you do it, as f***ed up as you are, and the motivations for the mistakes and bloopers. But even knowing why I do what I do, I still do it. Oh wait, isn't that awfully close to the definition of insanity?

[Outcast]

Abuse victims pick abusers for several reasons.

-After the abuse theres all the lovey dovey apologies, the makng up, the gifts, the emotional blackmail. etc.

 

Sorry, but this is not even close to true. The fact is that abusers, like everybody else, first present a golden personality. And, contrary to popular belief, they of course have tremendous personality characteristics. No human being is all bad; the problem is that humans tend to think that an abuser would behave unpleasantly right off the bat so they would never take up with an abuser. It's not the case. Abusers are regular people with, often, many endearing traits. They are Jekyll and Hydes, never all black.

 

Anybody can look wonderful while you're dating over the first few months. So the woman falls for this seemingly-wonderful man and, yes, ignores the warning signs because they seem to be anomalies in an otherwise lovely person. The abuser doesn't start abusing until the woman is hooked already.

 

Then, the first instance of abuse happens and the woman thinks 'he's been wonderful so far; there must be a reason for this - it's just an anomaly' and so, when the abuser (as he always will) begs forgiveness and swears it will never happen again, she forgives him. After all, he's wonderful and has been wonderful to her all along but this.

 

And this is how women get stuck. People always believe that the person they meet at the beginning of a relationship is the 'real' personality and that any behaviour which emerges later that doesn't jibe with that is the anomaly.

 

ABUSERS DON'T START ABUSING UNTIL THE PARTNER HAS FALLEN IN LOVE SO TO SAY THAT WOMEN FALL FOR THEM BECAUSE THEY LIKE 'DRAMA' IS UTTERLY INANE.

 

And Lindya's got it spot on about why women fall for these men. There will always be little warning signs and what a woman MUST do is heed the warning signs and not forgive aberrations in behaviour.

 

The other thing is that a lot of women don't even know the warning signs! There are sites and books that list them that all women should check out.

[Becoming]

I'm surprised to hear that both Blind Otter and Lindya say they have trouble getting involved with wrong men because you both sound so together. Of course, it's easier to give everyone else advice, huh? And people are just a plain ambiguous admixture of both good and bad qualities. We often pick and choose what we want to see and believe among the admixture.

 

I am married to a decent guy. But I push him away sometimes, too. Due to being abused as a child, I'm still overcoming a deeply held, pre-verbal belief that I don't deserve good things. Now I KNOW better, but somewhere deep inside, the good that I could have, I will not, as the apostle Paul might have phrased it.

 

I have to consciously remind myself of who my true Parent is and how much love God has for me in creating me and in sticking by me and redeeming me from the pit of despair that was (and honestly still is sometimes) my life. I'm not out to preach; it's just that thinking of Christ as the one who stepped in to take the abuse of sin aimed at me so that I could be free to live is probably the only thing that's saved me from doing really stupid things.

[blind_otter]

I learned at a young age to pretend everything was OK rather well. To the point where I almost don't know HOW to access my real emotions any more. And I do think those of us who suffered childhood abuse are in many ways more susceptible to the fantasy.

 

For me, I wanted so much to believe my mother loved me more than she showed me that I learned how to take the tiniest signs of affection and blow them out of proportion, to make myself feel like I was loved and protected.

 

Outcast pretty much described my cycle.

[lindya]

I'm surprised to hear that both Blind Otter and Lindya say they have trouble getting involved with wrong men because you both sound so together. Of course, it's easier to give everyone else advice, huh?

 

Got it in one!

 

I've always been totally enthralled by human nature, and consequently I've attracted and been attracted to people who will open my eyes to it. The challenge, for me, is avoiding romantic connections with those people who are keen to open my eyes to the less savoury aspects of it. I've had problems before that resulted from getting involved with troubled guys who saw me as the missing link between strangeness and normality.

 

Anyone else relate to that?

[Outcast]

I've had problems before that resulted from getting involved with troubled guys who saw me as the missing link between strangeness and normality.

 

Anyone else relate to that?

 

I have attracted people with devastatingly low self-esteem who maybe think they can learn confidence from me. I'm very supportive and affirming; one person who was not badly damaged did get a pretty good boost from me but a couple others needed much more help than I could ever provide; the self-esteem issue was just the tip of the iceberg in their cases.

 

Knowing what I now know, I steer clear of people with irrational anger issues - road rage is a huge red flag to me; people who get frustrated and angry at the drop of a hat over inconsequential things are not people I will have relationships of any sort with. Same goes for signs that he's prone to subscribing to bogus generalizations or irrational analysis. Tell me that global warming is a bogus theory concocted by conspirators and I'm gone.

[lindya]

Knowing what I now know, I steer clear of people with irrational anger issues - road rage is a huge red flag to me; people who get frustrated and angry at the drop of a hat over inconsequential things are not people I will have relationships of any sort with. Same goes for signs that he's prone to subscribing to bogus generalizations or irrational analysis. Tell me that global warming is a bogus theory concocted by conspirators and I'm gone.

 

So next time I see a man in a tin-hat leaning thumping furiously on his horn and gesticulating at other drivers, I can be 100% certain that the woman sitting next to him won't be you, Outcast?

[Outcast]

So next time I see a man in a tin-hat leaning thumping furiously on his horn and gesticulating at other drivers, I can be 100% certain that the woman sitting next to him won't be you, Outcast?

 

You got that right

 

Funny tin hat story. (hijack - only briefly). Was walking down the street the other day after sunset. Glance in a window - to see a woman with a head covered in foil. After a double-take or two, I realized she must be doing some hair-colour thing (not somethig I do) but it gave me quite a start

 

Back to regularly scheduled programming.

[sparticuss]

This struck a chord for me. I do give people the benefit of the doubt way more than I should. It's like I feel like I have to. Like so many people have helped me out...

 

I push away healthier men because I feel like they don't deserve a messed up dirtbag like me.

 

Ye haaaa! Wirrrrrrrrr! We have a bite. We is gonna run with this one!!!!!

 

OK Otter. Lets just get this one into perspective.

Messed up dirtbag?? I love it! What actually makes you a messed up dirtbag then Otter.??

 

Lets define a messed up dirt bag.

 

When you pick a fight with a bf have you ever slashed at him with a knife, while screaming at the top of your lungs, "Cmon ya gutless %^& Hit me. Ya havent got the guts.

 

Well????

 

Have you ever gotten pregnant by one guy, that you were seing secretely, and then told yoru regular bf that the kid was his.???

 

Have you ever committed a crime that would get you jailed for ten years.

 

Have you ever had unprotected sex while knowing you had any sort of VD.

 

I just love trotting out these examples because I've known girls like this. They arent hypohetical.

 

Sure you aint the perfect woman Otter. In fact I could lay a whole mess of truthfull insults right on this board right now about you.

 

So you sure don't deserve anything like the perfect man. (Who is a myth anyway)

 

But a total dirt bag.?? Get it into persepctive Ottter. Start by rattling off the ten worst or stupidist things you have ever done.

And I garantee I know some who have done worse.

[Roo-bie2]

I found one reasons I choose a looser was because he was the only guy that would allow me to treat him like ****. After a while he started fighting back and we treated each other like crap.

 

Things to do to stop choosing losers

 

1. You are the only person responsible for your happiness.

2. You cannot change anyone.

3. You cannot change anyone but yourself.

4. You cannot change him but how you respond to him.

5. So appreciation for what he does.

6. Don't nit pick what he doesn't do.

7. If you want something done a certain way don't bitch about it being done wrong if you didn't do it.

8. Because he does something a different way doesn't make it wrong, just done differently.

9. Show appreciations. Look for things you can appreciate. If they are hard to find there is a major clue the guy might not be a good one. I have heard woman complain there dh doesn’t do anything around the house, yet if you ask them if their oil needs to be changed or the lawn mowed the answer is no. If you remind them how many hours the guy is working for them tells a different story.

10. He might show his appreciation for you in a different way than you would for him.

11. Sex clouds your judgment. It is fun, it is relaxing, but can cloud your judgment.

12. Don’t nag.

 

Your list might be different. You might have other issues. Those were the biggies for me. Esspecially making MYSELF responcible for MY happiness.

[Becoming]

I found one reasons I choose a looser was because he was the only guy that would allow me to treat him like ****. After a while he started fighting back and we treated each other like crap.

 

Things to do to stop choosing losers

 

1. You are the only person responsible for your happiness.

2. You cannot change anyone.

3. You cannot change anyone but yourself.

4. You cannot change him but how you respond to him.

5. So appreciation for what he does.

6. Don't nit pick what he doesn't do.

7. If you want something done a certain way don't bitch about it being done wrong if you didn't do it.

8. Because he does something a different way doesn't make it wrong, just done differently.

9. Show appreciations. Look for things you can appreciate. If they are hard to find there is a major clue the guy might not be a good one. I have heard woman complain there dh doesn’t do anything around the house, yet if you ask them if their oil needs to be changed or the lawn mowed the answer is no. If you remind them how many hours the guy is working for them tells a different story.

10. He might show his appreciation for you in a different way than you would for him.

11. Sex clouds your judgment. It is fun, it is relaxing, but can cloud your judgment.

12. Don’t nag.

 

Your list might be different. You might have other issues. Those were the biggies for me. Esspecially making MYSELF responcible for MY happiness.

 

This is a great list. Thanks for insight about choosing someone you can treat badly. I think that's a significant insight. I'm not sure why, though. Can you elaborate? Can anyone else?

[blind_otter]

It's a low self-esteem thing. Misery loves company. Similar people are attracted to each other. I think, anyways.

[alphamale]

What I really want to know is why I keep choosing men like this.

because you yourself have very low self-esteem and need men who reinforce your low self-image.

[Roo-bie2]

This is a great list. Thanks for insight about choosing someone you can treat badly. I think that's a significant insight. I'm not sure why, though. Can you elaborate? Can anyone else?

 

 

I do not think there is just one reason for people to pick loosers. I ended my list these were for me, they might be different for you.

 

I had control issues. I also got wrapped up in my mom's idea of feminism and not letting a man control you. This meant I had to ALWAYS be in control.

 

I also looked at myself, and other women that I have known that lived with abusers (even though my ex wasn't that bad. I cannot stand him. He is a jerk but I don't want to imply that he was a wife beater either.) In MY world I have seen many women that are abuse also be the abuser. Like my mom I didn't use fist. I used words. I was controlling and minipulating.

 

I know I carry an unpopular view of abuse situation but I do think both players are at fault. They both play roles that allow it. We cannot fix the other half only ourselves.

 

Some times it is those things I listed. For other people it could be other issues. For me, it really was learning a new way to behave and to treat the people you love. I had to realize as long as I treat people (even myself) like crap that is the way they will treat me.

 

One of my favorite people to quote from is Eleanor Roosevelt:

 

Friendship with oneself is all-important, because without it one cannot be friends with anyone else in the world.

 

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.

[sparticuss]

This struck a chord for me. I do give people the benefit of the doubt way more than I should. It's like I feel like I have to. Like so many people have helped me out...

 

I push away healthier men because I feel like they don't deserve a messed up dirtbag like me.

 

I got a better suggestion. Use the energy spent in pushing them away to actually clean up the messed up dirtbag.

[blind_otter]

I got a better suggestion. Use the energy spent in pushing them away to actually clean up the messed up dirtbag.

 

No sh*t. Hello, AA.

 

That said, to say "I am controlling" -- well yeah, you can just be forever vigilant and supress that part of your personality, or you can address the fear issues associated with the need to control what cannot be controlled, your external environment and those around you.

 

You can spend forever wasting time treating the symptoms, forever addressing what you do rather than why you do it. I've done that. It's exhausting.