dirty dancing/cultural differences

[bobbyorr]

I took my caribbean girlfriend to a caribbean club for the first time the other night.

 

At the club, her friend's husband started grinding on her. She didn't stop him, and she didn't seem uncomfortable -- but it sure bothered me. When I told her she insisted it didn't mean anything, and that it was just the way they danced in her culture.

 

I told that was fine, but it wasn't part of my culture, and I found it disrespectful. I said I couldn't be with someone who danced with other men that way -- she said she wouldn't do it again, but only after a long discussion in which it was clear I was ready to leave the relationship over this issue.

 

I don't think I overreacted, but I still have a bad taste in my mouth over this. any thoughts?

[westernxer]

Most cultural dances consist of formal movements, with traditional instruments and costumes.

 

Grinding isn't part of the routine (I have Samoan roots, so I know the deal).

 

I guess night clubs are the same no matter where you go. Ethnicity be damned.

 

Your chick enjoys being a sexual object, and she doesn't want to sacrifice it to please you. She'll regret her stubbornness when you dump her.

[bobbyorr]

I'm not talking about formal dances with certain movements, costumes etc.

 

There are differences in different cultures about what's acceptable and what's not -- eg salsa dancing would be considered tantamount to adultery in some strict muslim countries (or christian for that matter)

 

I'm just wondering if this issue is something that can be resolved -- because if it isn't, I'll cut my losses and move on now. I do believe her that it is a cultural thing -- but that doesn't change the fact that I hate it and I'll leave if it happens again.

[westernxer]

Salsa, lambada, tango all incorporate close body contact, but they don't include grinding.

 

Are you not the dancing type?

[Tony]

Pardon the generation gap here...but what is "grinding"? What would I be doing if I was "grinding" on a female? I guess this is something I ought to know for the future.

[westernxer]

Pardon the generation gap here...but what is "grinding"? What would I be doing if I was "grinding" on a female? I guess this is something I ought to know for the future.

 

It's genital contact in a humping motion, from the front or back.

 

Very crude form of dancing, but anyone can do it. No rhythm (or manners) required. Just hormones and/or alcohol.

[westernxer]

I'm also shocked at the lack of respect this girl is showing for a legend like Bobby Orr. I guess they don't follow hockey in the Carribean.

[travellingman]

There are differences in different cultures about what's acceptable and what's not -- eg salsa dancing would be considered tantamount to adultery in some strict muslim countries (or christian for that matter)

 

Women can't wear bikinis in Saudi Arabia, that's a cultural difference. But I think it's universally understood that if you push your crotch into someone else's girl, you're not participating in some treasured historical ritual.

 

If she was showing some remorse, I might be willing to look past it, it's not like she had sex with the guy. But if she's not even sorry about it, then it's time to end it.

[loony]

A while ago I read an article about Brasil. The author described a girl and two guys dancing. They danced very close, lots of tensions and sexual allusions were in the air. At the end of the dance they walked home. They were sibling and dancing like this seems to be normal in Brasil. Obviously things there are a tad different. People have a different attitude to sex, dancing, your own body, etc. I have absolutely no clue how it is in the Caribe. It might be very different to what you are used to. But I would try to ask other people from there or go to another Caribean dance club and watch them dancing. That should give you an idea of what is acceptable in this culture and what not. I also suspect a bit that what you have called 'grinding' someone else just might describe a sexy move. I'm not sure, but could it also be that guys who don't like dancing have a somewhat lower tolerance level of what they consider acceptable when it comes to dancing?

[westernxer]

I also suspect a bit that what you have called 'grinding' someone else just might describe a sexy move. I'm not sure, but could it also be that guys who don't like dancing have a somewhat lower tolerance level of what they consider acceptable when it comes to dancing?

 

I'm starting to think the same thing.

 

Guess we'll have to wait and see what he says, but I do know that grinding your genitals into someone is not a cultural thing, since even white folks do it.

 

Most white guys hate dancing to begin with, so maybe he's with the wrong girl.

[slubberdegullion]

A lot of dance moves that come out of the Caribbean are highly sexual in nature. Still, this wasn't in the Caribbean so the standards of behaviour are different.

 

IMO, the issue isn't really about the grinding; it's about her dismissal of your feelings as irrelevant. That, in itself, is cause enough to kick her to the curb, no matter how good she is between the sheets.

[Outcast]

in which it was clear I was ready to leave the relationship over this issue.

 

I don't think I overreacted

 

Yes, threatening to leave the relationship over this was overreacting.

 

And unless all of you frequent caribbean clubs, you can't say what's common or not there. In fact, she's right - that is a typical dance style for those sorts of places. The reason she said it's no big deal is because there it is no big deal.

 

It's interesting that everyone insists she conform to his culture rather than vice versa. Mind you, it's men from his culture who are insisting that (and no, Samoa doesn't count).

[bobbyorr]

thanks for your responses -- and thanks westernxer for your input. I

 

I just want to make one thing clear -- she didn't dismiss my feelings -- in fact when I brought it up she said she could understand how I felt -- and she said she would stop out of respect for those feelings.

 

also, I do like to dance -- I would have been happy to dance with her all night -- and we did dance together that night -- I just really wasn't in the mood after what I saw.

 

I've gotten a lot of different reactions -- from dump that bxxxtch to "you're being a jealous jerk"

 

I do respect her culture -- and I honestly believe no disrespect was intended -- but that doesn't change how I feel. If if happens again, I'm gone. I guess what I'm wondering is, how likely is it that it will happen again, given that she said she understood and wouldn't dance that way in the future.

[loony]

Still, this wasn't in the Caribbean so the standards of behaviour are different.

It was a Caribbean dance club.

 

IMO, the issue isn't really about the grinding; it's about her dismissal of your feelings as irrelevant. That, in itself, is cause enough to kick her to the curb, no matter how good she is between the sheets.

He said: " I told that was fine, but it wasn't part of my culture, and I found it disrespectful."

 

If she is used to dancing like this in her home country, then she would certainly not understand his point of view and also not understand why he considered it disrespectful. They were in a Caribbean club, she danced the way she always did and he complained. She explains it's the way they do it at home. The answer he then gave her doesn't make it look as if he is respecting her culture. If it's part of her culture he has no right to complain that her behavior was disrespectful. That's just his interpretion of a different cultural habit. He may say though that in his tradition close dancing is not usual and that it makes people a bit uncomfortable. Labeling her behavior as 'disrespectful* because he's not used to it seems a bit intolerant. He should either accept that it's part of her culture and try to find a way that suits both of them or he insists on his interpretation, but then he might consider if it's not better for him to date someone with a more similar background.

 

What I wrote now is only valid if the 'grinding' really was just a dance move and not some foreplay on the dance floor.

[Outcast]

It would be ridiculous to drop her over something like this IMHO. Learn to 'dirty dance' yourself and go to the clubs and do it with the other chicks. Or do it with her.

 

There are lots of dances which involve contact with no intention. You are far too worried that a dance is infidelity or would lead to it when to her it's just a dance.

 

Like Freud said 'sometimes a dance is just a dance' LOL

 

Really, it is NOTHING. She did it in front of you. You are not going to tell me that they were the only two people in the club doing it. Everybody else was too, right? So when in Rome....

 

 

If she is used to dancing like this in her home country, then she would certainly not understand his point of view and also not understand why he considered it disrespectful. They were in a Caribbean club, she danced the way she always did and he complained. She explains it's the way they do it at home. The answer then he gave her doesn't make it look as if he is respecting her culture.

 

Exactly, loony, but remember, in America the women are supposed to 'obey the man'.

[loony]

I do respect her culture -- and I honestly believe no disrespect was intended -- but that doesn't change how I feel. If if happens again, I'm gone.

I think you really shouldn't continue seeing her...

[westernxer]

Clubs are clubs, no matter the cultural affiliation.

 

I've even seen grinding in, of all places, goth clubs. This is supposed to be a subculture of death, mosh circles, bad poetry, and self-loathing. Far removed from Carribean culture, but grinding happens there as well.

 

What does that say about grinding? It tells me that people are horny and like to engage in simulated sex, but it's a slap in the face to do it in front of your significant other without their consent or participation.

[Outcast]

Yes people grind in all clubs, but it's the norm in Caribbean ones where I'm guessing not so much in goth ones.

[slubberdegullion]

If she is used to dancing like this in her home country, then she would certainly not understand his point of view and also not understand why he considered it disrespectful. They were in a Caribbean club, she danced the way she always did and he complained. She explains it's the way they do it at home. The answer he then gave her doesn't make it look as if he is respecting her culture. If it's part of her culture he has no right to complain that her behavior was disrespectful. That's just his interpretion of a different cultural habit. He may say though that in his tradition close dancing is not usual and that it makes people a bit uncomfortable. Labeling her behavior as 'disrespectful* because he's not used to it seems a bit intolerant. He should either accept that it's part of her culture and try to find a way that suits both of them or he insists on his interpretation, but then he might consider if it's not better for him to date someone with a more similar background.

The cultural differences need to be respected, of course, but is it not also important to respect the nature of the relationship?

 

For instance, if a couple from North America went to a region where polygamy is culturally acceptable, does that then mean that the man can take an extra wife or two and his original wife just has to deal with it?

 

Funny, though, because as I sit here I vacillate back and forth.

 

This is a toughie. Certainly, it's not appropriate to ask her to dismiss some of her cultural values. But IMO it's also inappropriate to dismiss the SO's feelings on the issue.

 

I dunno. I just dunno...

[westernxer]

Yes people grind in all clubs, but it's the norm in Caribbean ones where I'm guessing not so much in goth ones.

 

I've been to a few hispanic clubs (not sure which Carribean country she pertains to, but a few of them have hispanic roots), and they don't grind there either, at least not with someone else's woman. The latino guys would never put up with this.

[a4a]

I've been to a few hispanic clubs (not sure which Carribean country she pertains to, but a few of them have hispanic roots), and they don't grind there either, at least not with someone else's woman. The latino guys would never put up with this.

 

 

You are probably right that they would never put up with it. My Hs dear friend is Latino.... and we love to dance. Never would he disrespect me or my husband, or his wife by "grinding" on me. However I guess some could take it as "dirty dancing" as the moves are rather sexy.

 

a4a

[loony]

For instance, if a couple from North America went to a region where polygamy is culturally acceptable, does that then mean that the man can take an extra wife or two and his original wife just has to deal with it?

If the man was indeed from this culture and grew up with the belief that a man should be allowed to have various women, then his wife should not have entered the relationship without being conscious of the consequences of marrying someone with such a differing belief to her. If he hadn't promised her before that he would never want to a second wife, then her complaints now would be a bit late and unjustified. But as both are not part of this culture, him suddenly demanding a second wife would be disrespectful.

 

This is a toughie. Certainly, it's not appropriate to ask her to dismiss some of her cultural values. But IMO it's also inappropriate to dismiss the SO's feelings on the issue.

She didn't dismiss his feelings.

 

I just want to make one thing clear -- she didn't dismiss my feelings -- in fact when I brought it up she said she could understand how I felt -- and she said she would stop out of respect for those feelings.

 

And we still haven't found out if what bobbyorr described as 'grinding' was indeed grinding or not just a very close kind of dancing.

[bobbyorr]

They were indeed grinding -- as well as dancing very closely.

 

Way over the line, in my opinon.

[loony]

They were indeed grinding -- as well as dancing very closely.

 

Way over the line, in my opinon.

You should talk with her.

[Outcast]

hispanic clubs

 

Um hello? The Caribbean isn't considered a 'hispanic' area!

 

We're talking Jamaica, Haiti, Antigua & Barbuda, etc. OK, Cuba's included but most of them are old French/Dutch protectorates and predominately neither white nor latino.

 

Different culture.