Opinion from men....... last names.

[tanbark813]

I would have a hard time marrying a woman who wouldn't take my name. For me it has nothing to do with religion, or thinking she's my property, or anything like that. If I'm going to get married and start a family, I want the traditional family where everyone has the same last name.

 

Besides, if I'm going to buy her a fat diamond ring, she's going to take my name.

 

(PS - There was a huge thread about this not too long ago if you do a search.)

[Kenyth]

Kenyth so primarily it is because you are worried about how others will precieve you/your relationship if your wife chose to keep her own last name?

 

What is your opinion as to me keeping my own name, how would you precieve us as a couple.. and as individuals based on the fact that were introduced to you as being married but with our seperate names being used..... (Alpha made his point stating I wore the pants in the family). What would be yours?

 

Be blunt ...... please.

 

a4a

 

a4a, it just has to do with the fact that life and marriage and being a kid have enough problems already. It would be nice to think that doing whatever we wanted, as long as it's legal, would have no repercussions. That's just not the way it is. You can argue it until you turn blue in the face and even be righteous in your argument, but it won't change a thing. The traditional standard in our society is taking the husbands last name, period.

 

If you BOTH feel keeping different last names, taking the wifes, hyphenating, getting a new unique one, whatever, is worth it then go ahead. Just don't be naieve enough to think that you won't catch some grief in life for it. As far as kids go. I don't believe in making anything harder for innocents than it already is. To purposefully force them to be different in a way that you know will get them made fun of ahead of time is just plain irresponsible and selfish.

[Kenyth]

I would have a hard time marrying a woman who wouldn't take my name. For me it has nothing to do with religion, or thinking she's my property, or anything like that. If I'm going to get married and start a family, I want the traditional family where everyone has the same last name.

 

Besides, if I'm going to buy her a fat diamond ring, she's going to take my name.

 

(PS - There was a huge thread about this not too long ago if you do a search.)

 

 

Good point! The man buying the wife an engagement ring is also tradition. Would you buy the man one if he took your name? Or forgo having one if you hyphenate? What would you tell your friends about it?

[Outcast]

There was a lengthy debate about this not so long ago

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t68806/

 

Remember the personality profiles? There's the 'rules because they're rules' people and the 'do what makes sense' people and never the twain shall meet.

[seachange]

Hey, I'm not a man but I spent some time thinking about this. When I married my exH I debated about taking his name - I think he expected it, although we had talked about it (we were together 4 years before we married) and I was always ambivalent. I have published under my own name, as a scientist and writer, so that was certainly a part of it...

 

...but to be honest, something inside me felt crushed a little at the thought of changing my name. I don't know. It's an identity thing. Maybe it's hard for guys, who just don't often face that question, to really understand how difficult it really is?

 

And I think there's definitely an age factor. I think when I was younger, I didn't care so much about it and I probably would have just done it, because, eh. But I was 30 when I married, was in the middle of a PhD, was becoming myself. I had lived for 30 years with my name, it was me and I liked me and I didn't see why my husband, who wanted to marry me, wouldn't want that, too. I guess deep down, I saw it as, we're two individuals allying our lives together - I'm not asking him to change, so why should I have to?

 

Side note on the ring factor: true, my exH did pay for the ring. But on the other hand, my family (bearing my last name) paid for the wedding reception. Which cost a lot more, believe you me. So the financial argument doesn't really hold up.

[a4a]

Good point! The man buying the wife an engagement ring is also tradition. Would you buy the man one if he took your name? Or forgo having one if you hyphenate? What would you tell your friends about it?

 

I don't think it would be all that important to me to impose my last name onto my spouse if the shoe were on the other foot.

 

As for rings there seems to be a bit of hubbub about that as well. I rarley if ever wear mine. I would feel awful if it were lost or damaged. I actually talked him into taking back the original ring as the stone was set way too high and it certainly would have been damaged easily.

 

Thanks for pointing out the other thread Tan..... although that involved a bit more of a twist on the last name game........ interesting tho lots of points there.

 

I guess I was just feeling bad/guilty because I feel like I am hurting my Hs feelings still using my last name. I try to consider his feelings in most cases, and try to give it thought this is just one of those instances where my desire is equally as important as his desire.

 

I am not worried about our image because of this, I was just trying to get an idea about where he was coming from on his end of things and why it may be so important to him. If social pressure was the main part of him being upset by it.

 

a4a

[Outcast]

It's an identity thing. Maybe it's hard for guys, who just don't often face that question, to really understand how difficult it really is?

 

In fact you'd think that guys who get SO upset about not having their name taken would understand exactly why it's an issue. THEY are all het up about their precious names but women are not supposed to have any sort of similar feelings. Women's role is to sacrifice. Remember that.

[a4a]

 

...but to be honest, something inside me felt crushed a little at the thought of changing my name. I don't know. It's an identity thing. Maybe it's hard for guys, who just don't often face that question, to really understand how difficult it really is?

 

p

 

Thanks Sea...

it is a little crushing to be thought of as just Mrs.... or just the wife..... I am happy with myself as an idividual and what I have done on my own. Perhaps by just chucking my own last name it almost is like dismissing the importance of me as an individual??

 

We did chat about this before we were married and carefully selected our vows which were non traditional and included no mention of any religion or tradtional roles as many standard ones do.

 

It just seems odd that it would bother him as he knew exactly were I stood before we were married. Guess its time for a little chat tonight and clear this up

 

a4a

[seachange]

Traditional arguments aside, I find it interesting that the guys here have said they have felt hurt and rejected when their wives have chosen not to take his name...

 

I can't speak for all women in this situation, but from the ones I've talked to who aren't really interested in the politicalization of it all (striking a blow for womankind and so forth)...it's actually a very personal issue, that isn't about rejecting the man at all - after all, they genuinely love and want to marry him, and unite their lives - but it's about wanting to retain their own identity within the marriage.

[Kenyth]

There was a lengthy debate about this not so long ago

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t68806/

 

Remember the personality profiles? There's the 'rules because they're rules' people and the 'do what makes sense' people and never the twain shall meet.

 

 

Believe it or not, I used to be a "Do what makes sense person." Life experience has shown me that many times idealism is folly. You can't change the world overnight. You must first work with it and then attempt to change it. You must also accept that which you cannot change and choose your battles wisely.

[Outcast]

You can't change the world overnight. You must first work with it and then attempt to change it. You must also accept that which you cannot change and choose your battles wisely.

 

We're not talking about 'changing the world' here. Plenty of women do keep their names. To me, the 'we do it because that's the way it's always been done' mentality is a sign of inflexibility and unwillingness to compromise or accommodate - big red flags. Professional women have excellent reasons to keep their names - a man who couldn't see the logic or reasonableness of those reasons would seem to me to be altogether too close-minded to be a good bet as a partner.

 

Simply put, if a man can understand being attached to a surname, then he should be able to empathize with a woman being attached to her surname.

[Woggle]

If I marry my girlfriend which i most likely will I will have no problem with her keeping her name. It has nothing to do with being commited. My ex took my name and you guys all know what a disaster that was.

 

I think the reason men want women to take their names is because some men feel like she is not as commited to the marriage if she keeps her own name. It feels like she is not taking it seriously. I don't share that view but i understand where it comes from.

[seachange]

Simply put, if a man can understand being attached to a surname, then he should be able to empathize with a woman being attached to her surname.

 

Yeah...I guess I'm not sure why the husband would feel so strongly that his wife's decision is about him, rather than her. I mean, I do see how it could feel very personal - but truly, it shouldn't be so hard to see that she might see it the same way, and that in a way, the stakes are higher for her.

 

Is it truly about fearing the derision of family/friends/the world at large? To me, that's just not a very good reason, when compared with the importance of doing what unites the couple (rather than alienating one of them).

 

(But it's true that others might place a larger importance on the world's opinion - see Outcast's earlier comment about personality types. )

[alphamale]

How would men feel if they were to change their last names to their wives?

Men would feel the same way as women would feel if women had to:

- take the intiative all the time and approach men

- give a $5,000 engament ring to the man

- work every day for entire life to provide for their family

- ask for a man's hand in marriage

- have fewer choices in life like most men do

 

this whole "cafateria style feminism" disgusts me. women want equality but they only want equality in certain areas. either go all the way or don't do anything. WTF? Women want equal pay and equal status with men but most still want the man to pay for the date and when he does not he is labeled as cheap and gets no nookie

[Outcast]

- take the intiative all the time and approach men

 

some men (not mentioning any names ALPHA) think that women who take the initiative are inferior females

 

- give a $5,000 engament ring to the man

 

more and more these days, help pay for the marriage and house and car by working, often putting in a larger proportion of her wage because she earns less due to the still male-dominated workplace

- work every day for entire life to provide for their family

 

In the majority of families, BOTH partners work every day but the woman also still shoulders by far the majority of the burden of cleaning, cooking, and other home chores which a single male would have to pay a pretty $ for

 

- ask for a man's hand in marriage

 

only if you're stuck with a 'traditional' man

 

- have fewer choices in life like most men do

 

Surely you jest!

[a4a]

Men would feel the same way as women would feel if women had to:

- take the intiative all the time and approach men

- give a $5,000 engament ring to the man

- work every day for entire life to provide for their family

- ask for a man's hand in marriage

- have fewer choices in life like most men do

 

this whole "cafateria style feminism" disgusts me. women want equality but they only want equality in certain areas. either go all the way or don't do anything. WTF? Women want equal pay and equal status with men but most still want the man to pay for the date and when he does not he is labeled as cheap and gets no nookie

 

Boy Alpha I would be your dream girl!

 

I persued him/ my husband... on a no strings attached basis... point blank about it.

We paid for the rings together and our wedding

Many women do work and provide equally to the finances in a marriage

Many women do ask men to marry them (we discussed it openly)

I do not understand the fewer choices statement???? Are you talking lingerie here?

 

I often would pay for dinner ect when we were seeing each other... why not?

I often would ask him to give up the nookie after paying for dinner ect.

 

a4a- alphas soul mate

[Outcast]

Kiddo, you're Alpha's nightmare

[alphamale]

Boy Alpha I would be your dream girl!

probably not A4A....i like the traditional type females who detest "feminism"...and there are quite a few out there.

 

I do not understand the fewer choices statement???? Are you talking lingerie here?

no, i was not clear.....i mean choice in the workplace and careers. a number of women can choose to work part time or at less stressful jobs because their husband provides more income to the family. some women can take a few years off to raise kids. some women choose not to work at all because their man makes the big bucks.

 

Most men do not have these choices. Most of us have to work from the day we are born until the day we die and I don't hear many women giving credit to us for that.

[tanbark813]

This is another one of those topics where if you're a man and you have an opinion, you're automatically wrong. But if you're a woman and have an opinion, you're automatically right.

[Outcast]

Fact is you don't 'have' to work. If you didn't want your fancy car and your bar-hopping and your bigass TV and all the goodies, you could live differently particularly if you have neither spouse nor kids.

 

Take it from one who manages quite fine and takes 'sabbaticals' regularly

[alphamale]

This is another one of those topics where if you're a man and you have an opinion, you're automatically wrong. But if you're a woman and have an opinion, you're automatically right.

thank you TANBARK!

 

Fact is you don't 'have' to work

yeah OUTCAST....I'd like to see a man who has no car, no crib, no money and no job try to get laid or get any respect from anyone, regardless of their sex.

 

you remember that song "NO SCRUBS", read the lyrics.

[Kenyth]

We're not talking about 'changing the world' here. Plenty of women do keep their names. To me, the 'we do it because that's the way it's always been done' mentality is a sign of inflexibility and unwillingness to compromise or accommodate - big red flags. Professional women have excellent reasons to keep their names - a man who couldn't see the logic or reasonableness of those reasons would seem to me to be altogether too close-minded to be a good bet as a partner.

 

Simply put, if a man can understand being attached to a surname, then he should be able to empathize with a woman being attached to her surname.

 

But we are talking about changing the world here. At least the part you live in. If it didn't have to be changed, this wouldn't be an argument.

 

I'm not saying that your feelings or reason on wanting to keep your own name are invalid. They are. It is a bit unfair. The reasons I posted in favor of keeping with tradition to avoid consequences are every bit as real and valid. Just because it doesn't make logical sense doesn't mean that it isn't the reality we live in.

 

You are free to do as you wish. You live in the USA. If you think it's worth it, you are just going to have to find a like minded man and be willing to put up with the looks and/or comments you may get from more conservative people all through your life. You also may find yourself unintentionally discriminated against when it comes to signing legal documents or identifying yourself simply because your naming convention is not the well known standard. You also have to realize that your children will bear this burden also and they may be taunted about it by other children. I recommend you bring up this preference early on in a relationship so it doesn't become an unpleasant surprise.

[Outcast]

.I'd like to see a man who has no car, no crib, no money

 

The point is that if you save well and plan your money well, you can have 'car, crib, and money' without having to work your whole life. But it requires discipline and not owning the biggest nicest goodie every time something new comes out on the market. It means accepting a slightly less fabulous 'crib' until you've amassed enough bucks to get a decent one. It's about savvy budgeting and investing.

 

Just because it doesn't make logical sense doesn't mean that it isn't the reality we live in.

 

 

You live in the USA.

 

Um. No. You do realize that there are LS members from all over the world.

 

and be willing to put up with the looks and/or comments you may get from more conservative people all through your life.

 

Well, praise God, I do not live in a conservative society and I avoid conservative people when possible. And, frankly, do not live my life according to the opinions of others.

 

You also may find yourself unintentionally discriminated against when it comes to signing legal documents or identifying yourself simply because your naming convention is not the well known standard.

 

Untrue for here and I doubt if it's even true for there.

 

You also have to realize that your children will bear this burden also

 

Don't have 'em but even if I did, it's no biggie. As someone else has pointed out, in this day of multiple divorces and blended families, it's very common for people in a family to have different names.

 

and they may be taunted about it by other children.

 

Children taunt each other over the colours of their coats, the sizes of their noses, their freckles, and every other thing on the planet. Besides, see above about blended families. I'm guessing maybe you live in the deep South or something because none of this is strange or new anymore in most cosmopolitan areas.

 

I recommend you bring up this preference early on in a relationship so it doesn't become an unpleasant surprise.

 

I'd hardly marry a conservative .

[alphamale]

But we are talking about changing the world here. At least the part you live in. If it didn't have to be changed, this wouldn't be an argument..

in addition, KENYTH....things are the way they are for a reason(s). This traditon of the woman thaking the man's last name has existed for a long time and it has withstood the test of time because most people accepted it, regardless of their sex. Thru out history most women have not minded taking their husbands name and that it why the practice is still popular today. If it was not popular with women it would have died out long ago

 

It's about savvy budgeting and investing.

its much easier to "budget and invest" when one is making $100,000/yr versus $20,000/yr

[Outcast]

This traditon of the woman thaking the man's last name has existed for a long time

 

That was because until only recently a woman couldn't even have her own credit card. The 'reason' was that a woman was considered property of the man - hardly a 'good' reason, at least in my books.