Opinion from men....... last names.

[a4a]

Power struggles are about winning for winning's sake. In a4a's case, there is no power struggle. She has valid reasons for wanting to keep her name. Silly me; I keep thinking logic should dictate people's choices. (And 'because it's always done that way' or 'because it's tradition' doesn't count )

 

There is no winning in this case....... it is not possible.... If I convince him that my own name should be preserved I will still feel as tho I have hurt him.

 

Knowing how he is considerate of things of importance to me he would not want me to change my name against my desire to keep simply to please him.

 

I do find the word wife is now used as a negative discription in so many circles I suppose that is why I do not like it.. it is not threatening but just seems to be attached to so many negative comments in society.

wife = bitchy, ball and chain, ect.......

 

a4a

[seachange]

well you know, the catholic church still does not let women into the priesthood or condone abortion and that is based upon tradition and their belief system.

 

do you celebrate Xmas SEACHANGE? If you do, why do you celebrate it? Is it because of tradiontion??? Why don't you celebrate another religions holiday? Why don'tyou celebrate Festivus like George's family from Seinfeld?

 

Hm, I don't think I watch Seinfeld often enough - do they just blend everything in together for Festivus? Sounds enriching.

[Outcast]

A scientist knows that a single exception doesn't violate a general principle.

 

A scientist also knows that an assumption touted to be a 'general principle' needs to be soundly based on fact.

[High Contrast]

Here, with this dog thing, you're using alpha's biology argument. Creative, but odd.

 

Anyway, "prototypical" isn't the right word, as I was saying before, because it suggests that a primordial ooze-type definition of marriage, rather than a pretty recent one. To argue that the current marriage is the prototypical one is to assume that the status quo is the way things have always been. But...not so much.

 

That's not what I'm saying at all.

 

The prototypical automobile has an air conditioner. The prototypical automobile in 1940 did not.

 

 

?? Not at all sure what this means, though I guess I should feel vaguely insulted. But I'd rather not, so explain, please?

 

Thank you! Because I intended no insult there at all. I was merely pointing out that your schools behavior verifies that it is expected that the wife take her husband's name.

 

Which is really all I've even been trying to say.

[Outcast]

it is expected that the wife take her husband's name.

 

So????????

[alphamale]

I was merely pointing out that your schools behavior verifies that it is expected that the wife take her husband's name.

Exactly H.C.... and the wife expects that her husband won't put his c*ck in another woman's mouth. And just like the child expects that its parents will be around to provide care. And just like your boss expects you to do the job you get paid for.

[seachange]

Thank you! Because I intended no insult there at all. I was merely pointing out that your schools behavior verifies that it is expected that the wife take her husband's name.

 

Which is really all I've even been trying to say.

 

Ah! Okay, gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up. Well, I certainly agree that name-changing is expected by many people, not gonna argue with that. Only that the paradigm they're using doesn't necessarily dovetail with my own, or that of many others.

 

Ok, gang - been a pleasure arguing with you all. Logging out to go home...

 

...and good luck tonight, a4a.

[Kenyth]

So????????

 

 

Just a smidgen of proof that it's the currently popularly accepted social value. An example of some of the headaches I was referring to earlier. Go against the value, and you will find all sorts of situations just like this your entire life. If you're willing to deal with them, no problem. Just don't expect them to go away.

[a4a]

Just a smidgen of proof that it's the currently popularly accepted social value. An example of some of the headaches I was referring to earlier. Go against the value, and you will find all sorts of situations just like this your entire life. If you're willing to deal with them, no problem. Just don't expect them to go away.

 

 

I could give a good rip what a stranger may think of us, my wanting to keep my name ect. My concern is my partners feelings..... how he feels. I posted the question and asked for honest answers (thank you all) to try to understand different perspectives so I could understand his perhaps.

 

As for social situations I am only concerned how he would feel. Me.... could care less about this being socially correct or conforming to what others feel makes a good relationship. (I hope an issue like this would not be so important to cause such a rift that you could not have and maintain feelings for another person).

 

a4a

[Tangerina]

Hmmmm.... I like my last name too much to give it up... it is really full of heritage.... if I marry someone who has a great last name I might hyphenate... if I married my current BF my last name would be Knobel-Kubiak, which I think is a cool last name and he could change his to Kubiak-Knobel.... it would be sweet like John Ono-Lennon and Yoko Lennon-Ono..... I like that idea.... hyphenation isn't always a swell idea, but if you get a good name out of it I think it is sweet for both of you to share your names.... I am a lady and I think this question was fo guys, but oh well, HAHA.....

[slubberdegullion]

Wow...do you really think that's what's being said here?

Yea, pretty much.

 

If you go by the posts, you'll see that most of the guys would like their wives to take their names. If the wives don't, the common thread among the men is disappointment and a sense of sadness tinged with rejection.

 

But if you go by most of the female responses, you'll see posts like "So what" and "Losing her identity" and the like. How their men feel about it is pretty much ignored.

 

From where I sit, I see men expressing their feelings about the issue (which is a rare occurrence indeed) and those feelings being summarily dismissed by some of the women.

 

Hence, it opens another debate: Women who say they want their men to express their feelings, but the moment the guys do, they're either attacked or their feelings are dismissed as irrelevant.

 

And so it goes, on and on.

[Kenyth]

I could give a good rip what a stranger may think of us, my wanting to keep my name ect. My concern is my partners feelings..... how he feels. I posted the question and asked for honest answers (thank you all) to try to understand different perspectives so I could understand his perhaps.

 

As for social situations I am only concerned how he would feel. Me.... could care less about this being socially correct or conforming to what others feel makes a good relationship. (I hope an issue like this would not be so important to cause such a rift that you could not have and maintain feelings for another person).

 

a4a

 

I understand that YOU don't care about it, but does HE? That's one of the questions that needs answering.

 

Because the man's name is generally the one taken, he will probably most keenly feel being the odd one out so to say. Kind of like if a man didn't offer an engagement ring, but everyone knew he could afford one if he wanted to, and all the brides other friends had one. Your finger might feel a little stark in other peoples presence who have them. You might be secretly pitied and whispered about, even if you don't think the ring is important. That kind of thing can eat at you.

[High Contrast]

As for social situations I am only concerned how he would feel. Me.... could care less about this being socially correct or conforming to what others feel makes a good relationship.

 

Sorry but I have to call you out here. Marriage is purely a social institution. If the two of you washed up on a deserted island, you wouldn't try to get married anymore.

[Outcast]

the common thread among the men is disappointment and a sense of sadness tinged with rejection.

 

I haven't seen that at all. I see hostility and people worried that women might wanto to feel like (gasp) individuals even though married.

 

It doesn't make sense that you feel rejected if you're not being rejected!!!!!

[a4a]

I understand that YOU don't care about it, but does HE? That's one of the questions that needs answering.

 

Because the man's name is generally the one taken, he will probably most keenly feel being the odd one out so to say. Kind of like if a man didn't offer an engagement ring, but everyone knew he could afford one if he wanted to, and all the brides other friends had one. Your finger might feel a little stark in other peoples presence who have them. You might be secretly pitied and whispered about, even if you don't think the ring is important. That kind of thing can eat at you.

 

Exactly Slub.... I do care about his feelings. But as I stated before I also care about my own. Which makes this such a clusterfrick!

 

OT: I think most men want a big ring on their womans finger because it makes them look better not for the womans benefit to show her friends how much he spent on her. I do not wear my ring, not out of spite but for safety reasons. He did make a comment about that when we went out to dinner a couple of weeks ago. He always wears his. He did comment about my recent project draft with my name on it. So yes it is bothering him, and in turn bothering me that he would feel hurt by my desire to retain my name.

 

However it is not right either to ask that I give up something that I deem important is it? If you put something else in place of the subject being of the name change.... lets say a hobby.....most would think it would be ludicrous for him to ask me to give it up, or a pet, or even the habit of enjoying porn as a non addict.

 

.... I will have to ask him why it is so important or that he is hurt because I desire to retain my own name.

 

I do appreciate your input, asking others takes away the skewed version that your spouse may give you to try to spare your feelings. I realize now because of your input that this whole name change thing could be more significant than I thought. That in itself is a positive thing of sorts.

 

Much appreciated!

 

a4a

[High Contrast]

I haven't seen that at all. I see hostility and people worried that women might wanto to feel like (gasp) individuals even though married.

 

I think I agree more with his interpretation than with yours. You're reading the text, he's reading what emotions are behind it.

 

It doesn't make sense that you feel rejected if you're not being rejected!!!!!

 

Feelings don't have to make sense.

 

Given that weddings and marriages such female-dominated institutions, it sure must sting to have this last shred of symbolic concession thrown in ones face by a fiancee.

[a4a]

Sorry but I have to call you out here. Marriage is purely a social institution. If the two of you washed up on a deserted island, you wouldn't try to get married anymore.

 

 

No not true, it is also full of legal aspects....... not just social.

We did not marry to just have a big ole party

 

If we were on a deserted island I don't think relatives would come in and attempt to rip off all our coconut savings and palm tree assets, or the local witch doctor would throw me out of the hut if my partner became ill because we were not married.

 

a4a

[Outcast]

Feelings don't have to make sense.

 

Well call me a loon, but it is my belief that both people in a relationship need to strive to be reasonable, and if they're subject to whimsical bouts of emotion that don't have a real valid cause behind them, then they need to battle those emotions rather than just allow themselves to be yanked around by them.

 

Given that weddings and marriages such female-dominated institutions, it sure must sting to have this last shred of symbolic concession thrown in ones face by a fiancee.

 

Oho. Now we're getting somewhere. So much for being 'hurt'. It's more a tit-for-tat situation, is it?

[Tangerina]

I agree that the husband's feelings should be considered, but geez, my name is really important to me, it is who I am and I just don't want to give that up! I think the fact that I am marrying them and forsaking all others should make them feel wanted enough... my mom on the other hand did not have a great family life as a child and when she was married she took her first husband's name and then my dad's name because she really didn't have much pride in her family name... on the other hand, my family is the most important thing to me and I don't want to give up that proud connection to them.. like I said, though, I would be happy to hyphenate, and I would be so honored if he wanted to take my name as well!

[a4a]

Well call me a loon, but it is my belief that both people in a relationship need to strive to be reasonable, and if they're subject to whimsical bouts of emotion that don't have a real valid cause behind them, then they need to battle those emotions rather than just allow themselves to be yanked around by them.

 

 

 

Oho. Now we're getting somewhere. So much for being 'hurt'. It's more a tit-for-tat situation, is it?

 

 

well put Outcast.

 

May I ask why some men think that all woman are just waiting to get married? As for being a female dominated institution please enlighten me further on this subject.

 

a4a

[High Contrast]

Well call me a loon, but it is my belief that both people in a relationship need to strive to be reasonable, and if they're subject to whimsical bouts of emotion that don't have a real valid cause behind them, then they need to battle those emotions rather than just allow themselves to be yanked around by them.

 

I think ideally, she would be eager to take his name simply because he wanted that, and he would be happy for her to keep her own name.

 

 

Oho. Now we're getting somewhere. So much for being 'hurt'. It's more a tit-for-tat situation, is it?

 

I'm not sure I see the difference. She gets the flashy ring so as not to lose face among her friends and family.

 

Considering the full deal, though, maybe it's more of a tit for tat situation.

[tanbark813]

Well call me a loon, but it is my belief that both people in a relationship need to strive to be reasonable, and if they're subject to whimsical bouts of emotion that don't have a real valid cause behind them, then they need to battle those emotions rather than just allow themselves to be yanked around by them.

 

Damn, Outcast, you sound like a robot.

 

Outcast's Man: "Baby, I love you so much."

 

Outcast: "I am not an infant and I find your outburst of emotion a bit unsettling but I will admit that I do not find your presence altogether disagreeable."

[High Contrast]

well put Outcast.

 

May I ask why some men think that all woman are just waiting to get married?

 

Count the number of posts here from women hoping their boyfriends will propose, or upset that their boyfriends are dragging their feet. Then look for the number of posts from men...

 

As for being a female dominated institution please enlighten me further on this subject.

 

To be fair, the ladies posting in this thread do seem honestly interested in equal partnerships. But out in the larger world, there are a sickening number of women who want equality except in those cases where they are benefitted by inequality, in everything from men making the "first move", to receiving expensive wedding rings, the traditional domination of the wedding ceremony, and guaranteed custody should divorce occur.

 

It's also funny how lads can find a traditional woman they have to serve and sacrifice for, or they can find a equal woman and split everything down the middle, but nowhere can they find a woman who will make them the center of the wedding ceremony, guarantee him custody of the kids should divorce occur, spend two months' salary on his engagement ring getting nothing in return, etc. Haha! It would be considered some sort of S&M relationship!

[a4a]

I think ideally, she would be eager to take his name simply because he wanted that, and he would be happy for her to keep her own name.

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure I see the difference. She gets the flashy ring so as not to save face among her friends and family.

 

Considering the full deal, though, maybe it's more of a tit for tat situation.

 

You think a ring is a good exchange for giving up something like your name?

So if your wife bought you a big new ring you would take her name?

I do not wear my ring, and as posted before I talked him into returning a very very expensive large ring for a simple one. I did not marry him to wear a ring to show to my friends or strangers for that matter...... if I want a big fat ring I can buy it myself and show it off as my own earning power.

 

a4a

[Craig]

It isn't important to me that a woman take my last name if we were getting married. The whole idea that a woman must take the man's name just because they are getting married is ridiculous (in my opinion) unless there is some very good reason for it.

 

Tradition isn't a good enough reason for me.