Father's SO run off with his retirement fund

[NatoPMT]

My father split up from his SO on Sunday evening. He was with her for 8 yrs but not married. For the last 2 years she has been accusing him of having affairs. Its got steadily worse until a few weeks ago she went to couples house who are friends of my dad’s and accused the wife in front of the husband of having an affair with my father. On Sunday, she attacked him with a knife and he had to sit on her for an hour to ensure she didn’t stab him.

 

She’s now left, and I think he’s relieved. He’s 62 and says he’s too old to be grappling with women over knives. He told me he put a significant amount of money in her name for tax reasons, which she is now saying he can’t have and she will keep.

 

My dad has been divorced twice before, he still gives my mother £1,000 a month (27 years after they split up). His second wife who never had children or paid a penny towards his house or bills etc etc took £100,000 off him after leaving him for another man out of the blue. At the time, he told me he had to work another 5 years to recoup the money to retire.

 

He’s 62, is a senior partner in a law firm, works 7am-8pm daily, even weekends. He smokes 60 cigarettes a day (I am not kidding) and I am terrified this stress will give him a heart attack. I want him to retire NOW. He doesn’t smoke at home, he could be relaxed and smoking 10 a day rather than stressed smoking 60 a day in the office.

 

I am furious with this woman, she’s been trying to get him to retire for years, now she ups and offs with his money knowing every day he works could take extra time off his life. I want to calll her and tell her that she’s taking my dad away from me with this nonsense but I don’t know if I should.

 

Should I try to reason with her and tell her that this is my fathers life we are dealing with, that hes my dad and I want him to retire as she well knows? Or should I just leave it to him, knowing he will shrug, walk away and work another few years, maybe never seeing retirement?

 

I know normally I would never get involved, but in this case I am toying with the idea so that I don’t see my dad hooked up to a life support any sooner than I have to.

 

She’s not as unreasonable as she sounds, my dad thinks she needs help which isnt surprising given recent events, but when she’s calm, she understands shes in the wrong.

[ReluctantRomeo]

How awful! I'm so sorry BigB.

 

I'd try reasoning with her first. This doesn't foreclose more drastic options later. And in my experience, most people can be reasoned with when they've calmed down.

 

It would probably come better from you than directly from your dad. Be calm, try to see it at least a little bit from her side (your implicit line should be "my dad is a good man, but I know he's not a saint") but explain the health issues and how worried you are.

[NatoPMT]

Thanks RR – support appreciated.

 

I agree, I have just spoken to my sister and she’s thinking along the same lines. She said she was thinking one of us could call G after the dusk settles in a few weeks, after Christmas & NY. It would probably be better coming from my sister as G has confided in her, while dad has confided in me. And I don’t know if I could be as tactful as my sister is. I always knew G was going to do this as my dad picks wrong un’s and he even told me that she dumped her last bf when she found out he had no money.

 

I am worried that the money could be gone in the few weeks that the dust settles – she may spend it in anger. My sister thinks the money will be in an access account whereby you need notice to withdraw which is good, it will give her a bit of thinking space.

I’ve found out the amount is £50,000 which is enough to affect my dad’s retirement although I have to say at the moment, he’s not saying it will affect his dates for stopping work so I am hoping whatever the outcome he will stop in 2006. I want him to be able to do the things he likes and has worked so hard for all his life – as well as supporting all these leeches he’s married. My mother included, although at least shes looked after his children all her life. My mother is now saying he’s always been having affairs and she has evidence of it, but she is still in love with him in some bitter kind of way and what she says is to be taken with a pinch of salt.

This doesn't foreclose more drastic options later

 

What other options could there be? I have thought about sending in the heavies but I don’t know anyone over 9 stone.

 

It would probably come better from you than directly from your dad

 

I thought that too, she appears more reasonable when shes not dealing with him, and it will show her the effect its having on his children. Should I tell him? He’s very proud, it might be better that he finds out after the call has been made.

[Craig]

He told me he put a significant amount of money in her name for tax reasons, which she is now saying he can’t have and she will keep.

For tax reasons = tax avoidance. They weren't married so it isn't community property. £50,000 / (8 years x 12 months) = £521 per month. A lot cheaper than a divorce probably. Maybe this is how your dad thinks of it.

[NatoPMT]

I think thats exactly how hes thinking of it, he said hed never get married again after the last 2 but hes being fleeced anyway so he may as well have been married. I think he's just thinking theres nothing he can do to reclaim the cash but he cant exactly put down to experience what hes learned the hard way twice before. Its his own fault i know, because my dad is silly over women doesnt mean i should lose him earlier.

 

I know it was avoidance, Im aware of that but its the last thing on my mind.

 

Part of me is absolutely amazed that educated, priviledged people still behave in this way, wanting to take off people they have no right to take from. My mother is the same, she believes men are there to pay her way and they will never have any other purpose than to be a meal ticket - as i said, she's very bitter.

 

People who do this in my opinion are disgusting. If you gave up your career to bring up children then its more appropriate, but this woman has her career, shes got children by another man, she wasnt married to him and shes just doing this to hurt my father. Hes my dad!! Not just a chequeing account. I hate the way he chooses these women. When i see alphamales posts concerning how marriage can fail men, i can see where to comes from but him and my dad are chosing the wrong women - not all of us are like that.

[Outcast]

Well I hate to be a complete wretch, but the man was trying to get out of his legal obligations. If that's what he's going to do, he needs to be smarter about it - maybe set up some offshore accounts or something.

 

His gf's behaviour is troubling. If she never before was violent or suspected him of lying, etc., then perhaps she's ill. Major personality changes can signal pretty serious illnesses.

[NatoPMT]

I know, he does need to be smarter about it. Supporting her is NOT his obligation, but paying his taxes are his obligations.

 

BUT - huge but, i have just spoken to him and he said the money is not in his name to stop my mother getting her hands on it. I have no idea why hes still paying her £1,000 a month but he is. I am 34 and my sister is 37, its not as though shes still supporting us in any way. She went back to court after i left full time education and he's not fought her as his principles are that he should support his family, and though they arent married anymore, shes the mother of his children. He's has supported her all this way but he didnt want to support her into his retirement, hence the stashed retirement fund so the courts cant take that into consideration. My mum often asks me not to tell my dad about the funds she has. I getting am sick of this. She thinks he should support her partly because shes bitter they split up and she wants to hurt him, now his girlfriend is doing the same.

 

His gf's behaviour is troubling. If she never before was violent or suspected him of lying, etc., then perhaps she's ill. Major personality changes can signal pretty serious illnesses.

 

Its been gradually building for about 18 months. Shes never been violent before, thats why Sunday was the last straw. She tried to book herself into the Priory after she accused his friend in front of her husband, but after she has clamed down she is v reasonable. This sounds odd to me but they wouldnt take her when she was calm - she needed to be having an 'episode' to be admitted? Why they couldnt assess her I dont know? The severity of the episodes has been building recently

 

2 egs, he was cleaning his car in the driveway, he keeps his cigs in the drivers door compartment. When was cleaning the car he took the packet, took out the last cig and placed the empty packet inthe passenger seat door. She sat in the passenger seat and found the empty pack and screamed blue murder saying 'the tart smokes the same cigarettes as you does she'.

 

He went and walked the dogs in his scruffy gear, came home to go to the supermarket with G. He asked her to hold on 2 mins while he got changed out of his dog walking stuff - so she thought hed gone to get buffed up to meet this OW at the supermarket. She was going to the supermarket with him

 

Do those eg's give any clues?

 

Thanks, much appreciated.

[Outcast]

the money is not in his name to stop my mother getting her hands on it.

 

Then he should have put it in your name or your sister's name, no?

 

Its been gradually building for about 18 months. Shes never been violent before

 

Really, she should see a physician about this sooner rather than later. People don't just suddenly become violent for no reason; it's almost certainly biochemical or biological (mental illness or something awful like tumor).

[Craig]

I think thats exactly how hes thinking of it, he said hed never get married again after the last 2 but hes being fleeced anyway so he may as well have been married. I think he's just thinking theres nothing he can do to reclaim the cash but he cant exactly put down to experience what hes learned the hard way twice before. Its his own fault i know, because my dad is silly over women doesn't mean i should lose him earlier.

Ok now consider if he did have to pay tax on the 50k how much would be left after taxes? Then divide that by 96 months and it probably looks even better.

 

It's probably less stressful and less harmful to him to let the money go than try to go after it and deal with his ex.

 

I'd guess that his long hours and 60 cigarettes a day habit would be more harmful than losing the money. When he retires he's going to be lost unless he finds something to occupy his time.

 

Maybe it's time to put your foot down and get him thinking about getting healthier. There are residential programs to help people to quit smoking and develop a healthier less stressful lifestyle. If your dad is going to survive retirement for more than a few years he's going to have to do something drastic like this, IMO.

[NatoPMT]

Then he should have put it in your name or your sister's name, no?

 

He said didn’t want us to get involved with him & my mums arguments, and he thought he could trust G. It was the first question both my sister & I thought of, it does seem the obvious thing to do. He knows he’s been stupid but he has his reasons.

 

People don't just suddenly become violent for no reason; it's almost certainly biochemical or biological (mental illness or something awful like tumor).

 

It’s a gradual build over 18 months – could this not just be a culmination of paranoia over a sustained period of time? Dad thinks she is mentally ill so I have to go with what he says. Is the switching between calm to raging fury a signal of something specific? There’s not going to be an easy solution, and my dad says he doesn’t want her back after she’s put him through all this, he says he’s too old to deal with her anymore. She’s much younger than him and I guess I have to respect his need to be without her, even if she needs help. He said he tried to get her help but I don’t know what came of it and he now just wants to walk away.

 

It's probably less stressful and less harmful to him to let the money go than try to go after it and deal with his ex.

 

He agrees. Its not an option chasing it legally for him.

 

I'd guess that his long hours and 60 cigarettes a day habit would be more harmful than losing the money. When he retires he's going to be lost unless he finds something to occupy his time.

 

I agree, he’s ignoring the health thing as he has consistently for the whole 34 years I have known him. I have tried and tried and tried to make him stop. I really have. When I was 6 I used to hide them from him. I refused to let him near me if he smelled of smoke. I have given him books, he saw his father die of lung cancer, his father even set his bed on fire in the cancer ward smoking under the covers – its an ingrained way of thinking that wont change unless I get him kidnapped by the smoking police.

He’s not an easy man to question, he’s a crown court lawyer with a lot of presence and he demands respect. I don’t want to fall out with him without the result I am hoping for – it would be fruitless to argue. The only way I can see him smoking less and relaxing is stopping working.

 

If your dad is going to survive retirement for more than a few years he's going to have to do something drastic like this, IMO.

 

I am resigned to losing him before he is 70 - tops. His father was 83 & his mother was 87, but dad smokes more and stronger cigarettes and has longer working hours in a more stressful job.

 

He’s going to die and I am trying to think of any way I can to prevent that day being tomorrow.

[Outcast]

It’s a gradual build over 18 months – could this not just be a culmination of paranoia over a sustained period of time?

 

No such thing.

 

Dad thinks she is mentally ill so I have to go with what he says.

 

I think he's probably right.

 

Is the switching between calm to raging fury a signal of something specific?

 

Could be one of several things. I'm thinking most likely bipolar, which apparently can come on later in life, unlike schizophrenia which tends to appear by the time someone's in her late twenties.

 

He said he tried to get her help but I don’t know what came of it and he now just wants to walk away.

 

If your sister still has a relationship with her, maybe she can persuade her to get help. It will be more difficult dealing with her if indeed she is ill so your dad is probably best to consider her a bad business deal to be written off.

[NatoPMT]

holy crap i have just looked up the symptoms of bipolar, and this is so similar to how she behaves, almost every point, she's manic and jumps from topic to topic, highly sexed, her mood swings, the delusions, sleeplessness.

 

I am going to print them off and fax them to my dad now - it might help him cope with whats happened, and as she is still calling him it may be possible to still get her help through him. If he sees a name and a list of this behaviour being quantified, then maybe they can rebuild at least a friendship in the meantime and make this process more smooth.

 

Thanks outcast - big hug.

[Craig]

He’s not an easy man to question, he’s a crown court lawyer with a lot of presence and he demands respect. I don’t want to fall out with him without the result I am hoping for – it would be fruitless to argue. The only way I can see him smoking less and relaxing is stopping working.

The presence and respect thing is just his professional role and while he may demand respect at work he really should earn it in his personal life and especially with you.

 

I agree (if that is what you're saying) that trying to get him to relax and smoke less right now is pointless but he is close to retirement. It could be a good thing to start learning more about how to assist him to relax more and quit smoking after he retires. Do a lot of research, have several plans with different approaches, don't give up and remain calm and rational during any discussions about the subject regardless of how much he slips into his lawyer persona.

 

He can't reasonably be angry with you because you love him so much that you are willing to risk being subjected to his wrath while trying to save his health and improve his experience of life (all the while being calm and rational.)

 

Think about the difference in how your come across to anyone when your are either begging or demanding (two ends of the spectrum.) Your most powerful presence will be found somewhere between the two extremes. Calm, rational, willing to hear him say no but remaining persistent.

[Outcast]

Well don't dismiss something organic like a tumor. Tumors can cause people to behave as though they have mental illnesses but bipolar certainly would be something to include in the differential diagnosis.

 

I am going to print them off and fax them to my dad now - it might help him cope with whats happened, and as she is still calling him it may be possible to still get her help through him. If he sees a name and a list of this behaviour being quantified, then maybe they can rebuild at least a friendship in the meantime and make this process more smooth.

 

That's possible and that would be nice. I hope she's not resistant to getting help - there's great meds for bipolar now if that's what she has.

 

Thanks outcast - big hug.

 

Glad I have been able to point out some possibles - if nothing else, I hope it helps to encourage her to get help and a proper diagnosis.

[NatoPMT]

Well don't dismiss something organic like a tumor.

 

will bear in mind, i am even bearing in mind the fact he may be having an affair and shes right. Ill ask him to bear in mind too, it would be dangerous of me to assume something without a professional.

 

Ive spoken to him and am waiting for his staff to leave the office then will fax it over, he brightened up when i said there could be a name for whatever is causing this. It may make him want to help her when he sees its not all his fault, i have certainly softened to her plight since this morning, i was just seeing her stopping my dad being happy. I am glad to be able to at least point out hes not to blame.

 

I dont think she will be resistant to getting help, i dont know about how she is at the moment though, she was screaming at him to f-off last time they spoke. I feel guilty for not doing this before, i should have posted about a month ago and maybe they will still be together and getting somewhere by now.

 

Will report back in a few days when he's read & digested the info - i think he will realise whatever it is, it would be a long hard slog so whether hes prepared to stand by her....

[NatoPMT]

Could really do with some guidance here. She called me last night. They are still apart and shes still acting crazy, but after talking to her, I really don’t know what to think.

 

After the start of this thread, I posted a new thread about a month or so ago about finding out that my father had affairs when he was married to my mother. About how he suddenly asked me to make more of a relationship with him after being effectively absent for most of my life, his timing was appalling, he asked me the day after I found out he’d been seeing his best friends wife when I was a child. His best friend shot himself, so my father is relaying this story which ridicules his marriage, his friendship and his best friends memory. I have told my sister and weve talked and we both decided to put it to one side, its not beyond the realms of possibility that his friend knew about it. They were all pretty wild when they were young for eg dad once drove a car over a frozen lake, my mum used to go dancing with the Krays.

 

This new info kind of makes me a bit more sympathetic to my dads ex-SO – but after what dad & cousins have said about her behaviour, I believed her behaviour was off key & displayed signs of mental illness, but I havent actually witnessed it myself.

 

She called me last night, and I spoke to her about whats been going on for the first time, and what she says is very plausible. She said the woman hes having an affair with is married. G went round, told the husband and the husband is threatening to name dad in divorce proceedings - so he can never admit the affair. She has bits and bobs of evidence but nothing concrete. For eg, the number of the phone box opp this womans shop was written on blotting paper in dads office, she found suspicious stains on his underwear etc. She says she would never leave unless she was sure, and shes sure.

 

When I have questioned dad about her mental health, he says the diff doctors ‘all say different things’ and sidetracks. I have tried to ask what the docs have said but hes been evasive – just not really answering, talking over me and continuing to talk about her behaviour. When I asked G, she said they all say nothing is wrong with her. She says dad is trying to push her to believe shes the one with the problem as hes scared of being named and sued by this womans husband. He told me he took her to the Priory, but by the time they arrived, shed calmed down, she said they said there was nothing wrong with her and sent her away.

 

This is all screwed up, I am confused and don’t know who to believe. I asked G if she was so sure and dad was so insistent it wasn’t true and her mental health was put at risk, why didn’t she hire a PI? G replied that she hired a PI last week – the same one that has just exposed my aunt as having an affair working for my dads brother, but when he came round he started w*nking in front of her because ‘he found her so attractive’. I asked her to call the police and report him and she said shed rather let it lie.

 

G also told me she and my dad’s brother had an ‘encounter’ the week before last – she was ‘drunk’ and he took ‘advantage’.

 

Do I need to get to the bottom of this? Are there fantasies on both sides or is dad taking advantage of an unstable woman, or do her delusions control her? Things don’t ring true on both sides – should I just walk away and accept I will never know the truth? Should I want to know the truth?

 

I feel totally freaked out by them, it’s like some low budget psychological thriller. I am so useless at telling people’s lies, I believe everyone and am so gullible, and I feel they are taking advantage of me to an extent.

 

thanks in advance, BB

[SoleMate]

Your father should call the police ASAP, and also get a lawyer. She stole his money. That's the only part of the story that needs to be addressed at this time....unless he also wants to press charges on the knife attack. I would.

 

Hindsight is 20/20...but putting that money in her name was a HUGE mistake for a seemingly educated person - a lawyer no less - to make.

[blind_otter]

Woah, this is a crazy story. Personally, I would try to stay as uninvolved as possible.