women ending marriages

[Skeered]

I know in my case I was "gone" from the marriage prolly a year before I left. I wanted to get counseling, take time to think things through and give my ex the chance to see what he was doing. I spelled it out very clearly what he was doing emotionally and physically to both our daughter and me. He chose to change for about a month and went right back. He now says it would have been so simple to stop doing what he was doing but didn't really see it till I was gone. However I heard that for years too. He know goes through women like nobody's business and the couple of ladies I have had the chance of meeting have said to me that they don't know how I stayed with him for 10 years. They were with him for a month.

 

My point to this is that as someone said most women mentally leave a relationship long before actually leaving it. Some of the posters on this thread have made it sound like we are all vendictive cold hearted bi***s, are we not allowed to have valid reasons to leave, do we not have feelings as well and the right to choose what we want and don't want in our lives?

[Woggle]

I'm not taking points with that.

 

Life is not so cut and dry. You can think you married the right person and still end up divorced!!

 

Also, in most cases, they don't just leave for any little reason. Do you think a woman turns her children's lives upside down just about any little reason??

 

It takes ALOT of courage for many women to leave when their marriages are not working, and for you to act like it's something done on a whim is insulting.

 

Yeah i do think that woman do it for any little reason. Not all women but many women do. It's funny that men are called commitmentphobes when although it might be harder to get us to the alter once you do we are in it for the long haul. Women on the other hand will leave over any old reason. I truly think that most women see men as just some disposable tools to be used and discarded, Dicorce courts cater to them so what is their ioncentive to try and make it work. Many men try everything to make it work and still end up getting left in the dust not knowing what the hell happened. I truly don't think I am about to marry a woman like that but if I do life goes on. I will not fall apart like so many men.

[SmoochieFace]

Yeah i do think that woman do it for any little reason. Not all women but many women do.

 

I totally agree with this.

 

Most will leave over any little reason... and there are a myriad number of little reasons.

[SmoochieFace]

I guarantee you that there was something my exhusband could have done to keep me at home and faithful. He just didn't choose to do it.

 

Answer this please: did you come out and TELL him or did you expect him to play Nostradamus? Thanks.

[Woggle]

Answer this please: did you come out and TELL him or did you expect him to play Nostradamus? Thanks.

 

Exactly. Women expect men to be mind readers. Just come out and say it. Nobody is perfect and I know I make mistakes so when I mistake I want a woman to come right out and say it. That is what is so refreshing about the woman in my life right now. We can tell each other anything and we don't hold anything back. That brutal honesty brings us closer together and it is abog reason why this will probably last. The funny thing is that many woman can't seem to let abusers and cheaters go but they leave the good men over vague reasons and women wonder why some men feel it is in their best interest to be players.

[SmoochieFace]

Exactly. Women expect men to be mind readers. Just come out and say it. Nobody is perfect and I know I make mistakes so when I mistake I want a woman to come right out and say it. That is what is so refreshing about the woman in my life right now. We can tell each other anything and we don't hold anything back. That brutal honesty brings us closer together and it is abog reason why this will probably last. The funny thing is that many woman can't seem to let abusers and cheaters go but they leave the good men over vague reasons and women wonder why some men feel it is in their best interest to be players.

 

 

Yeah, they like to wait six months or a year AFTER the *mistake* was made to rail about it.

 

Typical passive-aggressive bulls***. My mother was a classic walking example of PA in action. Still is.

 

Another thing that pisses me off about women in general is this need to constantly *remind* men of their *f***ups* long after the *f***up* was remedied. My mother should get a golden Hollywood star for that one too.

 

That woman will never allow me to *forget* how I *f***ed up* in school at various times. That's how it was with her: school, school, f***in' SCHOOL! Goddam if I came home with a "C" or "D" in something... she'd pull her typical "if you f*** up now you're gonna be a loser for the rest of your life" bulls*** and that I would "regret all those terrible things I did in school." Like not completing some stupid s*** *project* on Greek myths when I was in 4th grade. Well, looky-look at who's doing the regretting now!

 

My XW is the same way... just like Mommy... to a T.

 

Thank God I am with someone totally different... like a breath of fresh air.

[Outcast]

Women on the other hand will leave over any old reason. I truly think that most women see men as just some disposable tools to be used and discarded, Dicorce courts cater to them so what is their ioncentive to try and make it work. Many men try everything to make it work and still end up getting left in the dust not knowing what the hell happened. I truly don't think I am about to marry a woman like that but if I do life goes on. I will not fall apart like so many men.

 

So much for growing past your bitterness, Wog.

 

It's so disappointing to see people (especially the ones who claim to be 'geniuses' ) make such blatantly unsupportable claims. Nothing you have said is true and while it's common for people to resort to this sort of thinking as a result of their disappointment, one would hope that the smart guys (or at least those who claim they are) would understand that their statements do not reflect reality. They reflect a very bitter pseudo-analysis of what really happened.

 

My concern is that if people allow themselves to fall into such illogical patterns of thinking when looking back at situations in the past, they will be unable to understand and deal with conflicts that may come up in their subsequent relationships without resorting to the same type of fallacies and emotion-based biases.

 

Who says men are less emotional?

[Mz. Pixie]

Answer this please: did you come out and TELL him or did you expect him to play Nostradamus? Thanks.

 

Gosh Smoochie, wouldn't you say from my posts that I'm a pretty much tell it like it is kind of person?? I'm not any different in real life than I am here on the boards.

 

I started with I'm not feeling much affection from you, could you try and work on making me a priority?? He would make promises to change. I would see no progress and I'd bring it up again in say three months.

 

That progressed into bringing home articles for him to read which he threw away. When I went to MB and printed out the emotional needs questionaire he never filled it out. He never read mine either.

 

He would say we just needed to have more sex and I would try to meet that need. He would say meet my needs and I will meet yours. I tried all of that. I would ask him to go to counseling with me because I couldn't get him to see that affection was a top priority for me.

 

He actually told me, "I don't have time to work on our marriage, I'm too busy"

 

I said, "I'm vulnerable to an affair because you never stay home, you never make our marriage a priority- let's go to counseling" He would promise to change and then things would go back the way they were.

 

My mother was once on her deathbed and he said it was just not a good time for him. I said excuse me that my mother didn't pick a good time on your social calendar to die!

 

Then I told him that I would either leave him or have an affair if he didn't start staying home and making our marriage a priority. Not sure how much more clear I could get than that. I knew how weak I was feeling. I had had offers before to have affairs and I always turned them down. I wanted my husband to pay attention to me, not another man.

 

I never nagged. I kept myself up. I dressed up for him and made sure I always looked nice. I handled every detail in our lives- the house, the kids, the bills, the errands. Clean clothes magically appeared in his closet, his supper was magically fixed for him, the kids magically had their needs tended to. I supported his career for our entire marriage and it was a huge sacrifice. All I ever wanted in return was for him to give me a little romance, some affection and put me first every once in a while. He could have thrown me one bone every three months or so and it would have been enough for me to stay.

 

He's a nice guy. He's not a drunk or a wife beater. He just failed to give me the couple of things that I couldn't imagine living the rest of my life without.

 

When you're living without the few things you're eager to have it's not a stretch to say you'll do whatever it takes to get it.

 

I don't know what most women do, but I'm completely upfront about what I want and expect. It's a shame that he didn't wake up until it was too late.

[Moose]

Pixie,

 

I don't want to piss you off, but reading your post, I think that you are just as guilty in ruining that marriage as your ex-husband was.

I started with I'm not feeling much affection from you, could you try and work on making me a priority?? He would make promises to change. I would see no progress and I'd bring it up again in say three months.

While I agree, marriage should be priority in one's life, taking these steps smothered him. You would've been better off to not expect these changes so soon. You should've exercised patience.

That progressed into bringing home articles for him to read which he threw away. When I went to MB and printed out the emotional needs questionaire he never filled it out. He never read mine either.

Just adding to the pressure here. No wonder he was repelled away from you.

I never nagged.

Re-read your post. Nagging was all I saw. I'm sorry to say all of this. But this is what I'm reading into it. Men hate to change, but they can, and will on their own schedule. Not yours or anyone else's. You said he was a good man, didn't drink and wasn't abusive, and I'm assuming he never cheated on you.....I think your marriage had a chance, and it's a shame you ended it......

[SmoochieFace]

Gosh Smoochie, wouldn't you say from my posts that I'm a pretty much tell it like it is kind of person?? I'm not any different in real life than I am here on the boards.

 

I started with I'm not feeling much affection from you, could you try and work on making me a priority?? He would make promises to change. I would see no progress and I'd bring it up again in say three months.

 

That progressed into bringing home articles for him to read which he threw away. When I went to MB and printed out the emotional needs questionaire he never filled it out. He never read mine either.

 

He would say we just needed to have more sex and I would try to meet that need. He would say meet my needs and I will meet yours. I tried all of that. I would ask him to go to counseling with me because I couldn't get him to see that affection was a top priority for me.

 

He actually told me, "I don't have time to work on our marriage, I'm too busy"

 

I said, "I'm vulnerable to an affair because you never stay home, you never make our marriage a priority- let's go to counseling" He would promise to change and then things would go back the way they were.

 

My mother was once on her deathbed and he said it was just not a good time for him. I said excuse me that my mother didn't pick a good time on your social calendar to die!

 

Then I told him that I would either leave him or have an affair if he didn't start staying home and making our marriage a priority. Not sure how much more clear I could get than that. I knew how weak I was feeling. I had had offers before to have affairs and I always turned them down. I wanted my husband to pay attention to me, not another man.

 

I never nagged. I kept myself up. I dressed up for him and made sure I always looked nice. I handled every detail in our lives- the house, the kids, the bills, the errands. Clean clothes magically appeared in his closet, his supper was magically fixed for him, the kids magically had their needs tended to. I supported his career for our entire marriage and it was a huge sacrifice. All I ever wanted in return was for him to give me a little romance, some affection and put me first every once in a while. He could have thrown me one bone every three months or so and it would have been enough for me to stay.

 

He's a nice guy. He's not a drunk or a wife beater. He just failed to give me the couple of things that I couldn't imagine living the rest of my life without.

 

When you're living without the few things you're eager to have it's not a stretch to say you'll do whatever it takes to get it.

 

I don't know what most women do, but I'm completely upfront about what I want and expect. It's a shame that he didn't wake up until it was too late.

 

When you told him you weren't feeling a lot of affection from him did you tell him HOW he could be better or did you just say "Change!"?

 

See, it's easy to tell someone about a problem and say things like "could you change for me, purty please?" without saying HOW to change. Sorta akin to saying "If you want to be successful, get a high-paying job. Just do it!" and not saying HOW someone can do that. Not everyone learns by osmosis... especially us Aspies!

 

Detailed instructions please...

[Woggle]

So much for growing past your bitterness, Wog.

 

 

Just the fact that I am even considering marriage again means I have grown quite a bit. The truth is the truth. Your marriage sounds different and while I don't condone having an affair I don't blame you for getting sick of it but my marriage was different. I did everything in my power to make my ex wife happy and it was never good enough. If I spent time with her I was smothering her if I gave her space I was ignoring her. Every time I tried to make her a priority she pushed me away. I once took a week of from work so we could go down to Miami and she treated me like sh-t the entire trip. After a while I did start withdrawling because I got sick and tired of being wrong no matter what I did then she cheats on me and has the nerve to blame me even though I did everything in my power to make it work? I think an experience like that would make anyone bitter and I know quite a few men that went through the same thing. That is why i get so sick of the attitude in our society that sees the woman as always the victim when it is not as black and white as that.

[SmoochieFace]

Pixie,

 

I don't want to piss you off, but reading your post, I think that you are just as guilty in ruining that marriage as your ex-husband was.While I agree, marriage should be priority in one's life, taking these steps smothered him. You would've been better off to not expect these changes so soon. You should've exercised patience.Just adding to the pressure here. No wonder he was repelled away from you.Re-read your post. Nagging was all I saw. I'm sorry to say all of this. But this is what I'm reading into it. Men hate to change, but they can, and will on their own schedule. Not yours or anyone else's. You said he was a good man, didn't drink and wasn't abusive, and I'm assuming he never cheated on you.....I think your marriage had a chance, and it's a shame you ended it......

 

Yeah, and even more disgusting was the fact that she told him upfront she would go out and have an affair if he didn't change!

 

If there is a better example of a justification for divorce than that I have yet to hear it.

[Outcast]

Re-read your post. Nagging was all I saw. I'm sorry to say all of this. But this is what I'm reading into it. Men hate to change, but they can, and will on their own schedule. Not yours or anyone else's. You said he was a good man, didn't drink and wasn't abusive, and I'm assuming he never cheated on you.....I think your marriage had a chance, and it's a shame you ended it......

 

What is 'his own schedule', Moose? Why should a man not make good on his word? He makes promises and breaks them constantly. Is this the mark of a man - to never follow through on his word?

 

Sadly, it's not surprising to see a man supporting this guy.

 

I had one of those. He said 'anything you want from me, just ask and you can have it because I love you'. Ha. Bull. Know what I got when I asked - no matter what it was (and I don't ask for lots)? Nada. Bupkus.

 

Sorry but bitching that a woman who expects a man to follow through on his word is 'nagging' just doesn't cut it. Makes you sound like a spoiled little boy who has no plan to ever follow through when he says he'll do something and gets ticked when he's called on his BS.

[SmoochieFace]

What is 'his own schedule', Moose? Why should a man not make good on his word? He makes promises and breaks them constantly. Is this the mark of a man - to never follow through on his word?

 

Sadly, it's not surprising to see a man supporting this guy.

 

I had one of those. He said 'anything you want from me, just ask and you can have it because I love you'. Ha. Bull. Know what I got when I asked - no matter what it was (and I don't ask for lots)? Nada. Bupkus.

 

Sorry but bitching that a woman who expects a man to follow through on his word is 'nagging' just doesn't cut it. Makes you sound like a spoiled little boy who has no plan to ever follow through when he says he'll do something and gets ticked when he's called on his BS.

 

Seems to me that, once again, the pressure is on the men. It's ALWAYS the MEN who are the f***ups, right? Why am I not surprised?

 

This is one reason why marriage is not even on the horizon for me again so Woggle has me beat there!

[Outcast]

Just the fact that I am even considering marriage again means I have grown quite a bit. The truth is the truth.

 

Your marriage sounds different

 

You're confusing me with Pixie.

 

I did everything in my power to make my ex wife happy and it was never good enough.

 

Fine. That was her. ONE WOMAN OUT OF MANY BILLION. So to paint all women with one brush just makes you look bad; unable to understand that just because you had a bad experience doesn't mean that's representative of all of life.

 

That is why i get so sick of the attitude in our society that sees the woman as always the victim when it is not as black and white as that.

 

There is no such 'attitude in society'. In fact the 'attitude in society', if there is one, is that women are all bitches, the 'ball and chain' etc etc. It's women who suffer here.

 

she told him upfront she would go out and have an affair if he didn't change!

 

That didn't happen at the beginning. Every heard of 'escalation'? She gave him MANY chances to change and at that point upped the negotiation by adding in another point. She probably hoped that this might get his attention.

 

But, as is classic, he paid no mind. This is EXACTLY what women were talking about when they say they DO ask for things, bring up problems, ask for solutions - and NOTHING happens, even when they escalate. Men just don't take it seriously. This dude didn't take her warning that she might be susceptible to an affair seriously, either.

 

It's ALWAYS the MEN who are the f***ups, right? Why am I not surprised?

 

WHY DO MEN MAKE PROMISES AND NOT FOLLOW THROUGH??????

 

WHY SHOULD THAT BE ACCEPTABLE??????

[Woggle]

Seems to me that, once again, the pressure is on the men. It's ALWAYS the MEN who are the f***ups, right? Why am I not surprised?

 

This is one reason why marriage is not even on the horizon for me again so Woggle has me beat there!

 

Exactly. It's not always black and white. The reason I might marry again is that my woman actually admits when she screws up. She has her flaws as do I but she admits them. Most women think they do no wrong and even when they do wrong it is the man's fault. It's not worth it trying to please one of these types.

[Woggle]

 

Sory I did think you were Pixie. I don't know why but I thought I was replying to her. I don't think all women are like that. I even apologized for my blamket generalizations but too many women are like this. I am sorry but it is the truth.

[Outcast]

Most women think they do no wrong and even when they do wrong it is the man's fault.

 

BS METER NOW OFF THE SCALE

 

I want my questions answered.

[Moose]

What is 'his own schedule', Moose? Why should a man not make good on his word? He makes promises and breaks them constantly. Is this the mark of a man - to never follow through on his word?

I don't know if you caught it when I said I believe marriage should always be priority. Some men will say just about anything to keep their spouse happy. I've learned NOT to make promises I didn't intend on keeping, and NOT to be forced into making promises I wasn't absolutely capable of keeping.

Sadly, it's not surprising to see a man supporting this guy.

I wasn't supporting either side, (if you can see where I out right said it's her fault, show me), they both made mistakes.

Sorry but bitching that a woman who expects a man to follow through on his word is 'nagging' just doesn't cut it. Makes you sound like a spoiled little boy who has no plan to ever follow through when he says he'll do something and gets ticked when he's called on his BS.

The same can be said about women manipulating men to make promises they don't intend on keeping.....then they're surprised when they break their word....

[SmoochieFace]

WHY DO MEN MAKE PROMISES AND NOT FOLLOW THROUGH??????

 

Perhaps we should quit *making promises* then! Oh, wait, hold up a sec... that would make us commitmentphobes!

 

Can't f***in' win here...

[Outcast]

I don't know if you caught it when I said I believe marriage should always be priority. Some men will say just about anything to keep their spouse happy. I've learned NOT to make promises I didn't intend on keeping, and NOT to be forced into making promises I wasn't absolutely capable of keeping.

 

Well good for you. Then why defend this guy who didn't do anything of the same and call his spouse a 'nag' when she hoped to see him do the same?

 

It's just men ganging up on women. This guy behaves exactly the way you say you won't yet you still attacked her for 'nagging'.

 

Oh, wait, hold up a sec... that would make us commitmentphobes!

 

No. It would make you 'trustworthy'. Odd concept, I know

[Mz. Pixie]

Moose, I'm sorry, you're way off base here.

 

Yes, I definitely contributed to the problems in my marriage. You act like that this is all I ever talked about. Well that would have been impossible since he was out having fun all the time and I was at home being the grownup. Running the house, caring for the children.

 

I cannot believe I post some of the things he said to me and suddenly it's all my fault. I gave him YEARS to make a effort. What I'm talking about here happened over a period of years. What I posted what a shortcut for Smoochie of how things escalated into what they were at the end.

 

You bet your sweet ass I told him I would cheat if he didn't start staying home or making an effort. That was my last ditch effort in waking him up and trying to get him to go to counseling with me.

 

Smoochie, just so you know, yes- I told him the things I needed for him to do- every time we discussed it. I said, kiss me for no reason not just when you want sex, talk to me in a tone that's better than what you talk to your friends and your clients, sit by me on the couch and hold my hand, talk to me rather than drone out to the tv. It's PATHETIC that I sat and BEGGED for him to kiss me but then I'm the villian when things don't work out.

 

Sorry, I don't buy it. Yes, I was partially to blame. He had it made and I'm the one that made it all for him, all he had to do was basically show up.

 

I would have had alot more respect for him if he would have said, "You know what, this is as good as it gets. I'm not going to promise to change because you know what? I'm not going to, I don't want to" Rather than promising me the world. TALK IS CHEAP and his actions never matched up with his words. The "I love you, you are my world." just became words after he never did what he said he would do.

 

Funny thing is?? He still hasn't changed. He treats his gf just like he did me all those years- like she's the bottom of the list. Fortunately it works for her because she doesn't care about being any higher up on the list. I have higher aspirations myself.

 

I want to be married to someone who puts me second next to God and not below his job, his hobbies, his friends.

[SmoochieFace]

I would have had alot more respect for him if he would have said, "You know what, this is as good as it gets. I'm not going to promise to change because you know what? I'm not going to, I don't want to" Rather than promising me the world. TALK IS CHEAP and his actions never matched up with his words. The "I love you, you are my world." just became words after he never did what he said he would do.

 

And he STILL would have *lost* you so what difference would it have made! You STILL would have left him.

[Woggle]

Okay Pixie what would you say about a man that tries everything through action to make his wife happy and it is never good enough and what she wants seem to change on a weekly basis? What would you say about a man who never knows whether he is coming or going and seems to wrong no matter what so he stops even trying aftre a certain point? That is how it was for me yet she still blamed me when she cheated.

[Outcast]

Unfortunately, when women post about legitimate complaints, the Misogynist Patrol leaps on her like lions on a freshly killed antelope. I have called out plenty of women who I felt were being unfair to their men. We do have some LS men who are capable of thinking rather than just spouting bitter man cliches but they haven't weighed in here, unfortunately.