How to keep an affair from happening again

[RecordProducer]

Sami_D, I have to ask you this. I think you were the lady who said she would marry her MM, right? So now you're saying that you wouldn't be with someone who would cheat on you or find consolation for his loneliness elsewhere... I wonder if that applies only to you or other wives also. Your MM is cheating on his wife. His marriage is bad and he has kids, but you could be married to someone who would have children with you as well and want to mess around with other women.

 

I was curious about why you approve affairs when you're on the other side of the fence and find excuses for your guy, but if you were the wife, you wouldn't accept it under any condition. Naturally, you won't judge yourself, I am not asking you to do that (you're not married), but why don't you see him in the same light as if he were YOUR husband - as a cheater and liar?

[Sami_D]

Ophelia, I'm so sorry you're going through all this pain right now. The fact he's withdrawn, and is calling what you two did 'wrong'... is all because he needs to make that break, and that's how he's dealing with it. It doesn't mean it all meant nothing to him, or that you were 'used' (I see it that way, at least).

 

I am with Owl in being glad for you, however, that it's ended so definitely, and that you can, once you've grieved, begin getting your life back on track. Whatever that takes, and whatever the future holds for you.

[Sami_D]

Sami_D, I have to ask you this. I think you were the lady who said she would marry her MM, right? So now you're saying that you wouldn't be with someone who would cheat on you or find consolation for his loneliness elsewhere... I wonder if that applies only to you or other wives also. Your MM is cheating on his wife. His marriage is bad and he has kids, but you could be married to someone who would have children with you as well and want to mess around with other women.

 

I was curious about why you approve affairs when you're on the other side of the fence and find excuses for your guy, but if you were the wife, you wouldn't accept it under any condition. Naturally, you won't judge yourself, I am not asking you to do that (you're not married), but why don't you see him in the same light as if he were YOUR husband - as a cheater and liar?

 

As I said in my earlier post, I believe that almost anyone is capable of having an affair. People may not believe that, but time and again we read the words "I never thought I would be the type of person to... (be the MM, or the OW)". I don't believe that most affairs are the result of personality flaws in the MM, but of a particular set of circumstances. I don't believe in "once a cheater, always a cheater" for most people who have had an A. Having an affair is a different kind of relationship problem than being an abusive partner, for example. An abuser really does need therapy in order to prevent future occurrence of the same events. (Of course some people DO have affairs because of major things they need to fix in themselves, but I'll leave that aside).

 

Regarding 'approving' affairs. No, I don't think I've ever done such a thing, not for anyone else on these boards, and not for MM. I don't approve of what MM is doing. I believe he could do things differently, but that's easy for me to say when I don't have a daughter to tug at my heart strings every time I think of leaving. I've said more than once here when talking about my situation that the C is one person's 'excuse', another person's 'reason'. And it's the main reason I am still with him: I don't know what's best (possible) for him to do, and no-one can give a definitive answer to that.

 

But just because I don't approve affairs, doesn't mean to say I can't understand why they happen. Understanding why something happened can help to prevent it happening again.

 

So, to answer your particular point: Would I marry a person who could cheat on me..? Yes, I would. Because 1) I think that (most) affairs happen because of circumstances, rather than personality traits, and 2) Given the way our R began, I/we would be aware of and work to guard against the danger of an A.

 

Now, I don't believe that this would guarantee no future A. But my responses to Owl were meant to express how I would react if, despite these things, it still happened again.

[RecordProducer]

Sami, thanks for your reply. I see your point and you're right. But regarding this:

 

So, to answer your particular point: Would I marry a person who could cheat on me..? Yes, I would. Because 1) I think that (most) affairs happen because of circumstances, rather than personality traits, and 2) Given the way our R began, I/we would be aware of and work to guard against the danger of an A.

 

I think it's important to know that you married someone who is sure that he would NOT cheat on you ever under any circumstances. If you have problems in your mariage, you can solve them together even if that means sexually open relationship until the kids grow up. Having an affair behind your spouse's back is not a way to deal with marital problems; it only makes the marriage worse.

 

I know that my husband would divorce me rather than cheat on me if he is not willing to work on our marriage. That's just the way he is. So for as long as he is married to me, I will know that he is not cheating. If I am wrong then I will be hurt, but at least I don't have to walk on eggs because he might cheat on me if he is unhappy with the marriage.

 

Cheating should NOT be an option when you're married. I couldn't live my life with the thought that sex with another woman is one of the solutions he may choose if we have problems in our marriage. Every marriage has its ups and downs. There are times when people argue a lot, don't understand each other, and go through difficult emotional states. If you let a third party enter the marriage because of "circusmstances" - as you stated it - then infidelity is practically unavoidable.

[Sami_D]

Well you have a good point there, RP. I certainly know that MM has cheated during one R already. I don't like to state that he wouldn't cheat on me, because I don't think I'm immune at all. He says he wouldn't, but then people can/will say what they feel is true at the time... who knows what may happen down the line? I doubt he married his present W expecting he would cheat.

 

I don't think that most people would think cheating was 'an option'... people seem to drift into these things if they're not paying attention to their R. Or rather, if their partners aren't giving them the attention they feel they need.

[RecordProducer]

I don't think that "once a cheater always a cheater" applies to all cases. Every relationship is different and people change. What's important (for me) is that when you meet the right person for marriage, they promise that they will NEVER cheat no matter what. They should know that you're willing to work on the marriage or let them go if necessary, but you will not approve infidelity under any circumstances. My husband told me that I should not worry about him cheating on me ever. EVER! And he stated that if I do anything behind his back our relationship will be over.

 

People are more negotiable than you can imagine. Promises to NOT do something are stronger than the freedom to do it. Actually the attention you get by not being allowed to cheat is a turn-on. E.g. I know a person who ran away from home when he was 11 years old. His mother beat him and he never ran away again. He got the attention he needed and didn't need to run away anymore. Same with infidelity. If you know in advance that your spouse will be very hurt by you cheating, you probably won't do it. Same with the other side.

 

Set standards that you will both have to stick to. If he betrays you, you will suffer, but at least you will do your best to prevent infidelity. By letting him know that you can understand it under certain circumstances, you're allowing him to cheat on you if those circumstances occur. He must know that you trust him (not approve sex with other women if things go wrong between you), but if he betrays your trust - it's over forever.

 

I believe this is the only way to make sure that there are no third parties. If they are then it's a matter of dishonesty and betrayal, not a matter of circumstances that justify infidelity.

[elmejor]

Newbby-

 

Excellent question!

So I respond back with another one...

Where does trust come from?

And there isn't a REQUIREMENT for anyone to do that 'checking up on'...it's the willingness that is really the main key...and the fact that both people know that checking up is POSSIBLE.

It's been about a year and a half since d-day for me...when I learned of my wife's affair. I checked up on her HARD for the first year...and it tapered off a lot since. Even after this major event, she's regained a HUGE amount of trust from me...and I am not a trusting person by nature. I don't remember when the last time I actually logged into her email account was...but I CAN if I want to...and she doesn't have any issue with it at all. I don't know when/if she has ever logged into mine...but I make darn sure she knows the passwords and login ID's to any that I have...voluntarily.

It doesn't bother me one little bit to give her that info...what's Dr Phil's quote? "Those who have nothing to hide...hide nothing."

Why should it MATTER if she can see my emails or my phone history?

This is how trust is BUILT...especially after an event that destroys that trust. Her H will HAVE to be able to do these kinds of things when he does learn of her affair (whenever however that happens)...or he will NEVER trust her again.

Think about it...what would it matter if someone you love and trusted and shared everything with anyway COULD read your emails, your messages, etc...? As long as there was nothing to hide...and you shared with them anyway...and you knew that it built up their trust in you...and could even help prevent you from hurting them beyond belief....why would you even care?

 

This is disturbing, to say the least. Spouses do not have the right to take away each other's privacy. During the first year, did you follow your wife everywhere 24 hrs per day? Bug your own phones? Your own house? Take away her cell phone? Follow her into public restrooms? And who the hell is Dr. Phil? No wonder marriage is so unappealing to me ..."as long as there is nothing to hide....why would you even care?..." Look, the point is, people (in the USA) do not give up their rights when getting married. Everyone needs, and is entitled to privacy. Everyone. I ask you, if a person feels compelled to search through their spouse's personal belongings, do they really have a marriage worth saving?

[RecordProducer]

I agree with Owl about everything he said.

[Owl]

Elmejor-

 

The good news is that you and I will never marry. LOL!

 

I'm sorry if you find my post disturbing. The first question I'll respond to is this... "...then do you really have a marriage worth saving?" The answer is a resounding yes. Not just from me by the way...but from my wife as well. You know, that person who's "rights I violated"...the person that I "spied" on...yup, she feels that this marriage was well worth every bit of effort it took to save it. I know...'cause we've talked about this very subject.

 

Now...as far as your implications that what I did was illegal (referring to the US at least). Nope, not at all. Because she KNEW what I was doing...I TOLD her. And she had other options as well...she could have decided that her 'privacy' was more important to her than this marriage...and left. What did I do specifically? I installed spyware on all three of our home computers...computers that I bought ,that I owned, that I was the system administrator on. Computers that I paid the internet rights too...and by default am responsible for ANYTHING that goes on with them. And then I told her and my kids that I had installed that software on them (I have four teenagers in the house too). So, using those computers was OPTIONAL.

 

I also began paying close attention to her cell phone usage...again, the one I paid for? Darndest thing, me having the right to actually READ the invoice of something I'm paying for every month, you know?

 

And, as I'd stated...as the trust was rebuilt, the desire to 'check up on' my wife became less and less. This was more of a chance for her to rebuild that trust than anything else. And the funny thing is this...what ACTUALLY lead to her establishing NC with OM was the fact that I was reading her emails...not because she felt I was violating her privacy, but because she knew that it hurt me to know she was still in contact with him, and she'd decided she didn't want to hurt me anymore.

 

I'm curious tho...why would you feel that there is anything wrong with allowing your spouse access to your emails, chat sessions, etc...?

 

My wife is MORE than welcome to access ANY of this stuff...as a matter of fact, I've gone out of my way to ensure that she has my login and password to ALL of my email accounts (I have two besides the work one. She can't access my work one at all without me there, but she's more than welcome to ask me to see it anytime, and I'll gladly share it with her on the spot). She also has access to my one chat login, and to all of my online game accounts.

 

What's WRONG with this arrangement? I'm sorry, but I struggle with understanding your concern. There is nothing that I'm not willing to share with my wife...and at the same time, after what we went through, I am looking for the same thing in return. And...she's HAPPILY granted that. SHE has told me that she knows that if we'd done this before it would have prevented her from having her online EA...it would have kept us from getting to the point we got to. She wishes we had done this earlier.

 

Half of the problem is that we get so involved in our 'right to privacy' that we lose sight of the fact that we are ACCOUNTABLE for our actions to those around us...especially our spouses. My wife's choice to have an affair didn't just affect her...it affected me as well. It affected our marriage. She is ACCOUNTABLE to me for any of her actions that could hurt our marriage...and I am JUST AS ACCOUNTABLE to her for the same things. And whenever you hear of a WS (wayward spouse) screaming about 'right to privacy'...it's got nothing to do with privacy...it's got everything to do with SECRECY. (not saying that YOU are a WS...simply pointing this scenario out to you) It's that SECRECY that creates the situation for an affair to thrive.

 

Go ready some of the books by Dr Steve Harley on the subject of marriage and affairs. His Needs, Her Needs is a good one.

 

I personally feel that if you're not ready and willing to share everything with someone, it's probably best that you don't marry.

 

Oh, and Dr. Phil is a HUGE thing in the media nowadays...he's a 'relationship therapy' counselor. I don't advocate or agree with all that he says, but some of it does make sense.

[whichwayisup]

This is disturbing, to say the least. Spouses do not have the right to take away each other's privacy. During the first year, did you follow your wife everywhere 24 hrs per day? Bug your own phones? Your own house? Take away her cell phone? Follow her into public restrooms? And who the hell is Dr. Phil? No wonder marriage is so unappealing to me ..."as long as there is nothing to hide....why would you even care?..." Look, the point is, people (in the USA) do not give up their rights when getting married. Everyone needs, and is entitled to privacy. Everyone. I ask you, if a person feels compelled to search through their spouse's personal belongings, do they really have a marriage worth saving?

 

Yes, each person in entitled to their privacy. Ofcourse! BUT, in OWL's case, the ONLY way to make sure his wife wasn't lying or hiding things was to check up on her. MANY spouses DO that as they need to know and feel that they can learn to trust their spouse again.

 

If you love someone enough, and the marriage is worth saving, then yes, being an open book and not hiding anything makes sense. The spouse that cheated LOST their privacy by cheating and lying in the first place. I don't think OWL or anybody would go sneaking into their spouses email or open mail just for the heck of it. There has to be a good reason. And in his case, and many others, there was!

[newbby]

it makes sense elmejor if you listen to the way owl explained it. in itself it sounds ludicrous, but, as owl said, when you first get to know somebody and begin building a relationship, that trust is slowly growing between you. whilst you dont demand to look through each others things, the trust is being tested or proved in other ways all along. once it reaches the point that two people get married, that trust is pretty solid, but it has taken a long time. when one of the parties breaks the trust, but the marriage still remains, then the trust has to be proven again, but relatively quickly. i think that makes sense.

[Owl]

Well, again let me start this with this...I cannot remember that last time I looked at my wife's emails or anything...it's literally been months.

 

 

BUT...I still see nothing wrong with her having complete and welcome access to MY emails and chat sessions and what have you...nor would I feel bad if I DID check her emails out of the blue.

 

Again...of what VALUE is this privacy within the marriage? What do you gain by having it? How is this better than providing your spouse the opportunity and means to hold you accountable for your actions and behavior within the marriage?

 

The ONLY reason I could see for not wanting my wife to see something in my email or whatever would be if it centered around something I wanted to do FOR her that I didn't want to ruin the surprise. Christmas presents for example...but for something like that...something positive and loving for her, I WILL go to a mutual friend of ours and ask for assistance. Case in point...I wanted to buy her a set of handmade wooden crochet hooks online...obviously I didn't want her to see that order confirmation or anything. So, I went to a friend of ours...one who supports our marriage...and asked him to give me a hand in ordering them. Worked great...and it was a GOOD thing, one that I didn't mind asking a friend to assist in...not like asking someone to hide a relationship with someone else or something.

 

But, other than something like this...WHAT REASON WOULD I HAVE FOR NOT GIVING MY SPOUSE TOTAL ACCESS TO MY EMAILS OR CHAT ACCOUNTS OR WHATEVER???

 

Now, I can understand that everyone needs some 'them only' time. I go for walks occasionally...my wife likes to go shopping. And she's welcome to go, and I really don't have any kind of issue with this. I'm not saying that you give up all sense of individuality in your marriage...not at all. I'm simply not understanding why you would have to have something like an email account or whatever that you would not want your spouse to see?

 

Can someone please help me understand WHY you feel that you have to have 'privacy' from your spouse?

[Sami_D]

Personally, I think that as long as it's voluntary that someone opens up their personal things to their SO... that that's ok. When someone starts demanding or assuming, or making claims, or saying 'how can I trust you unless' or 'you've had an affair and therefore I need to see...' ... then that is just stupid. I wouldn't mind in the slightest if my SO saw anything that I had written to anyone... but I'd think they had a lack of trust in me if they felt the need to trawl through it all.

 

How can you possibly have a R based on conditions..? IF you can't trust that person... then you are not in the frame of mind to have a R with them.

 

I think that if people going into relationships (or 're-making' them after an A) need to feel that they can always resort to checking up on their SO... then it's really doomed. Because it's based on checks and measures, and not some really deep thing that you both feel, and know to be true.

[Owl]

How can you possibly have a R based on conditions..? IF you can't trust that person... then you are not in the frame of mind to have a R with them.

 

EVERY relationship (other than perhaps mother to child) is based on conditions...EVERY ONE!

 

You've said so yourself..."if he cheats on me and tells me, then it's over!". That is a condition!

 

NO ONE should be willing to blindly, 'un-conditionally' give their love. Think about it..."I'll always love you...even when you beat me senseless, run me over in my car, take all my money, and use it to have wild parties with the entire Dallas Cowboy Cheerleader section!". Don't remember seeing those kinds of things as options for marriage myself at least.

 

We ALL have conditions...some of them intentional, some of them are assumed. Even most of the OW here...they're conditions are often "if you'll be with me EXCLUSIVELY in the future.".

 

Now...I agree completely that those conditions should be mutual, agreed upon by both parties up front or as soon as they're in place, and as realistic as possible.

 

But you've still not explained to me what the BENIFIT of this "privacy" is?

 

I personally believe that most of us WILL blindly trust our spouses or mates...until something like an affair happens. That blind trust is pretty much destroyed by something as huge as this. And honestly, not just with that spouse. I know a lot of people who have divorced their FWS (former wayward spouse) and moved on to a new relationship. And most of them don't just blindly trust anymore.

 

You have that blind trust that they'll never do this to you...that somehow YOU are immune to something like this...until it happens. And then you spend a LOT of time learning how it happened...and why...and what you could have done to prevent it. And you learn to take those measures after that...but most people never learn to take those measures until they've BEEN in that situation once already.

 

OK..so back to my question...I've explained the benifit of 'checking up on your spouse' (rebuild trust, establishes boundaries, ensures that the 'chance to cheat' is reduced, etc...). So what are the benifits of NOT doing so?

[elmejor]

But you've still not explained to me what the BENIFIT of this "privacy" is?...You have that blind trust that they'll never do this to you...that somehow YOU are immune to something like this...until it happens. And then you spend a LOT of time learning how it happened...and why...and what you could have done to prevent it. And you learn to take those measures after that...but most people never learn to take those measures until they've BEEN in that situation once already....OK..so back to my question...I've explained the benifit of 'checking up on your spouse' (rebuild trust, establishes boundaries, ensures that the 'chance to cheat' is reduced, etc...). So what are the benifits of NOT doing so?

 

I'm not trying to disrespect you or your situation, Owl. It's just that giving up rights, like the right to privacy, seems too extreme. And I won't explain the "benefit" of privacy. I have privacy because it is my right, and I won't give it up to anybody. When you claim the computer, phones etc. to be your property...that strikes me as odd. Are you not partners, you know as parents, financially, and so forth? Does she maybe feel that you have an overcontrolling influence? I'm just speculating, of course I don't know you. I can presume that you and I would not make good marriage partners though! I agree with you on that. I really doubt that looking at a spouse's emails, phone records, etc. would prevent an affair either. People who want to have an affair will find a way.

[newbby]

does there come a point when the 'checking' becomes more of a punishment than a prevention, or cure?

[opheliaapplegate]

WHAT REASON WOULD I HAVE FOR NOT GIVING MY SPOUSE TOTAL ACCESS TO MY EMAILS OR CHAT ACCOUNTS OR WHATEVER???

 

 

Owl i agree with you on that ... if you have nothing to hide then you have no reason to care if your spouse looks at your stuff or not... the only i have to say is that if a person wants to have an A they do... they will what they have to do to keep the A seperate from their families... I know from my experience my OM let his wife have access to all his emails, cell phones etc etc but i knew that.. we talked about that and i did the same .... so i am very regretful and ashamed of my behavior... I never thought i could be capable of such deception ... but if you want to keep an A going you will do what you need to do regardless if your spouse has email access or not... in my case i have a husband who was interested in my daily life ... so on my end keeping the affair a secret was not difficult .. ut for the OM i know it was because i feel she may have suspected and was always checking on him "sort to speak" ... but in any event

 

and i think that checking can be viewed as a punnishment if it is done continuoulsy and the other person feels as though they have lost their ability to be an individual... i know that once i reveal to my H about my affair IF he chooses to stay i can expect him to "check on me" i wouldn't blame him for that as a matter of fact i will welcome it and help to make him feel comfortable in knowing that what has happened to us in the past is in the past ... but i will cross that bridge when i get to it.... thanks again guys for helping me out :-)

[opheliaapplegate]

Oh my god did you see all my typos!!!!!

that is what i get for typing so fast .... and not watching the screen LOL

[Owl]

Newbby-

does there come a point when the 'checking' becomes more of a punishment than a prevention, or cure?

 

I would say that this is definitely possible. I would also say that it can easily become an obsession for many BS's as well. It's something that does need to be balanced out.

 

I would also say that it's possible that many people who have been betrayed in this fashion become very paraniod of something like this happening again. Remember, for most of them, this is a betrayel of the highest caliber from the ONE area that they never expected to be betrayed. The one person closest to them...that they didn't expect to see it from.

 

Elmejor-

 

Not taking any of your posts as attacking or disrespectful, and if you have felt that any of mine have been that way, I apologize.

 

You're absolutely right about us being PARTNERS...which also means that we both should equally share everything as I understand it. That would also mean those computers, etc... As far as viewing the cell phone bills...there is no way anyone can possibly see something wrong with both spouses seeing the contents of the phone bill.

 

Again...the "right to privacy". What, exactly, are you referring too? The ability to send and receive emails and text messages with other people without your SO knowing what's in them? Again, show me where the harm in seeing what's in those emails is? How does letting your SO have the ability to see those emails compromise your quality of life? Now, I would agree completely that this would be a major issue if both parties couldn't agree on it...but at the same time, I struggle with understanding with why you WOULDN'T agree to it?

 

Remember too, my wife has equal access and ability to view MY stuff too. And as I've said, the 'need' to check up on her is pretty much non-existant at this time...don't remember the last time I DID do so.

 

But why should you WANT, or NEED privacy from your spouse or SO? Of any kind?

 

Again, time to be yourself...I totally understand. Should you both be joined at the hip and be forced to do everything together? No. But...should either of you require the ability to hide secrets from the other? No, nor do I understand why anyone should WANT it.

 

Another example...my wife knows I'm doing something different for Christmas for her this year. I've asked her not to look into a couple of areas in the house where I'm hiding the stuff I need to make her present. I know she wont look...no issue. She has asked the same thing in the past...and I've always respected it. As long as we TALK about it first, and make sure that the other person understands and is OK with that, it's all fine.

 

Last note...your comment about 'people who want to have an affair will find a way'. That I can also agree on. For every way to check up on someone, there are a dozen ways around it. But, limiting the OPPORTUNITIES for one to begin just makes sense, doesn't it?

 

If my wife had thought that I was reading her IM sessions and emails from the start, would she have ever even crossed that line in the first place? Probably not. The affair wouldn't have started, because both of them would have already been aware of the limits and would have been taking care not to cross them in the first place. Even if they were tempted, they wouldn't have wanted their SO's to be upset with what they read or saw. Affairs are RARELY started in a vacuum. The build from friendships with poor boundaries more than anything else...my wife's case is a perfect example of that. But had she had any reason to believe that I could see what was going on from the beginning, then she wouldn't have even started to cross that line that allowed it to start. AND I GOT THAT STRAIGHT FROM HER!

 

You know, I've thought about that 'controlling' thing you've mentioned. I would be...if I DID log in and check her emails everyday, and confront her about anything and everything that I thought was suspicious. If I were to go over the cell phone bill with a fine tooth comb, cross-referencing numbers everytime there was something odd. If everytime there was anything that I thought was remotely odd was an instananeous confrontation and blowup. If I refused to agree to the exact same standards myself.

 

But it's not. Remember, I've got the ABILITY to see all of this...that doesn't mean that I do so. Nor does it mean that I obsess over it. I USED to...after the affair I did this all the time for a while...luckily our MC understood this, and explained to my wife that it was a common response to an affair. And that it was actually a way for me to HEAL from the affair, as that trust was re-built by her continued demonstrated trustworthiness. And it has been.

 

My question is this...if you have nothing to hide, why would you even care if your SO COULD read your emails if he/she wanted to? What difference would it make to you if they could? How would that change your life?

[Owl]

Ophelia-

 

Great post, even with all the typos!

 

Let me ask you this...do you think that your affair would have started IN THE FIRST PLACE if your husband had been privy to all of the communication between you and OM from the start? I'm talking even before you and OM realized there was something between you...as you started talking, and then as it started to build up, there were things that were said that were 'borderline'...that were somewhat flirty on both sides I'm sure...would you have sent them knowing your H would have seen them? Or would you have kept them to yourself instead?

 

Think about it...courtship consists of this kind of 'flirting' behavior. Between you and OM, someone sent something 'slightly flirty'. Something that COULD have been taken as either a flirt, or something harmless. And then the other responded in kind...and that went on for a while. It's a way to determine what the OTHER person is willing to let go on. In person, it's often done with touches too. A guy will touch a woman first in a non-threatening way...he'll touch her shoulder, or her arm, and then see what her response is. If she doesn't reject it, he'll continue, and then eventually he'll move his hand to her shoulder, or her face...again, a more personal area.

 

And this is done verbally (or written) as well.

 

So, if your H had been checking your IM's and emails THEN...would you have risked allowing that kind of behavior to begin with? Or would you have more likely kept your responses more neutral, in fear of upsetting your H? Remember, your responses fueled OM's responses...if you DIDN'T respond after enough attempts, he would have given up the game too.

 

THAT is the benifit of the 'checking up on'...it helps to keep the A's from happening or getting too far in the first place...out of the concern that the SO will see what's going on too. Now, it CAN be taken to another communication method...but that's risky too, because you're still not sure how the other person is going to respond.

 

This isn't foolproof...nothing is. But it DOES minimize the possibilities...and again, I've not seen what the benifits of keeping this 'privacy' are compared to it?

[opheliaapplegate]

Owl - yes i think if my husband was a more concerned spouse i don't think it would have gone as far... and you hit it right on the head.. we flirted for months before he made he first attempt to see what i thought about him ... and that in itself took a few more months... we became very close to the point were i looked for him to get opinions and it was weird one day i did not see him and i missed his presence ... i think if my H had just cared more ... spoke to me more... did not take our 17 yr marriage (at the time) for granted .. if he did not dismiss me as being moody when i expressed my unhappiness i may not have allowed this other man to get that close to me i would have kept things in perspective... i mean i have had other males interested in me through out my years of marriage and i never was unfaithful i knew my boundaries but this was different it could've been right time right place i don't know .

 

as a matter of fact i took the day off today to regorup myself get ready for the holiday and get away from my job its been very hard these past couple of days and i needed the break.... i think if one is not fully aware of what is going on and does not take responisbility for their actions change cannot take place and so i am trying to be proactive and accept where i am now and move forward... easier said then done ...

[opheliaapplegate]

I don't know if this is a question for a new thread or not but i was wondering about the OM perspective... i understand that every situation is different but i am curious to understand what OM think about these lost relationships if they are as affected as OW are i am certain there are extremes but for those R that were sincere how so they get over it, are they just as upset ... you know how do men deal with it....

 

i am asking because as i am going through this i can;t help but notice how my OM seems to calm cool and collected.. how he manages to act around everyone as though nothing is going on with him... i know like me he has to be collected at work but i was wondering in general ... i guess i am wondering if her is just as hurt as me... I know i will not know the answer i can only guess but i am interested to get other opinions on this matter .... thanks

[Owl]

Ophelia-

 

I think that this is one of those areas where it would be a good place for you to draw a line...this is where you start cutting OM/MM out of your life here.

 

I know it's tough, but start hardening yourself to NO LONGER CARE what he's thinking or feeling. It was thinking about his feellings that led you up to this point...and it's a good place to start seperating YOUR feelings from his.

 

Let it go...start teaching yourself not to care if it bothers him or not...at this point, you need to take care of yourself first...deal with your own feelings, and let him deal with his own.

 

Just my thoughts.

[Owl]

Oh, you might bear one thing in mind while you're on this subject.

 

OM is a consumate LIAR. He had to be in order to carry this on as far as he has. So you'll NEVER know the truth of his feelings...because anything he WERE to tell you could well be a lie still.

 

All the more reason to let it go, and go take care of yourself.

[newbby]

but owl, om is no more a liar than ophelia herself!

no offense ophelia, i just though it was a strange thing to say to you.