What makes a marriage joyless and boring?

[Ditherer]

I've got a theory... these "love is a decision, work at it" types are not in love, have never experienced true mutual love, and are posting from a position of bitterness?

Perhaps either ...

a) Dumped and unhappy about it, mad at their ex for not working at it?

b) Trapped in a not-so-great marriage themselves, and trying to justify it?

c) on an absurd fundy religous (thou shalt not have fun) mission to save marriages at all costs?

 

If you truly stand by this "decide to love, work at it" stance, do you have the courage of your convictions to give us "your story" - summarise your situation in a nutshell - to let us know where you're coming from? Otherwise your advice is a bit meaningless, I'm afraid. If you're here to do what you can to help others, I'm sure you'll think this over. If not, what exactly ARE you here for?

 

ta.

[Kenyth]

I've got a theory... these "love is a decision, work at it" types are not in love, have never experienced true mutual love, and are posting from a position of bitterness?

Perhaps either ...

a) Dumped and unhappy about it, mad at their ex for not working at it?

b) Trapped in a not-so-great marriage themselves, and trying to justify it?

c) on an absurd fundy religous (thou shalt not have fun) mission to save marriages at all costs?

 

If you truly stand by this "decide to love, work at it" stance, do you have the courage of your convictions to give us "your story" - summarise your situation in a nutshell - to let us know where you're coming from? Otherwise your advice is a bit meaningless, I'm afraid. If you're here to do what you can to help others, I'm sure you'll think this over. If not, what exactly ARE you here for?

 

ta.

 

 

Strangely enough, I've got a theory too.

 

All the, "You can fall in and out of love at the drop of a hat. It just happens to you. You have only one true soul mate.", people just want to keep thier options open in case something better comes along and they decide they want to bail. Someone has to take the blame, so why not make it "love"?

 

You can't apply "Decide to love" to every situation. It's not an across the board answer. It doesn't cure everything or solve everything.

 

You're seeing the answer, but you're not getting the question right.

 

I DON'T think everyone should stay in their marriages at all costs. Read my posts and you'll find I generally think you should get out if you're being mistreated.

 

I'm talking about the idiots who find the fireworks don't last forever and take it to mean their marriage and family should be sent to the scrap heap.

 

This is the answer for the, "I'm just not in love with my spouse anymore." kind of person. The one who just decides they've fallen out of love and don't know why. That crap is a cop-out. An excuse to blame some mystical "love" force for the heartache they're responsible for.

 

They DECIDED they don't want the relationship anymore because they selfishly want something better. Usually, they've found someone else and want to pursue it. Maybe they just decide that taking care of the kids is too much of a burden. Being able to say you just don't love someone anymore provides a much too convenient excuse for a**h***s who find themselves lusting for something else and want a bigger better deal. If you want to leave someone for selfish reasons, then for gods sake just be a mensch and admit it! You know?

 

I'm a stickler for setting blame where blame is due. All the Hollywood "True Love" crap seems to be poisoning the good sense of the population.

[WhoAmI]

Ya, that's the problem with typing something pithy.

 

"Love is a decision, not an emotion."

 

**

 

The above poster summed it up nicely. If your marriage is not "bad" then if you leave it you are being selfish. The cop out is, "I love you, but don't love you that way anymore. It's not the fault of either of us".

 

They typically fail to mention that they have a really close friend who understands them...

 

...at this point Love is a Decision is 100% valid. At it's core, love is a decision. When things don't seem to be going right, when your unhappy, you continue to work on your marriage because you choose to.

 

Of course, if your spouse is beating you, cheating on you, etc - then it is a no brainer - of course you have the option of leaving (understand what I'm saying here...obviously in many many states you can leave for no reason whatsoever).

[Ditherer]

The reason you just don't bump into anyone and decide to marry them is that everyone has DECIDED they have certian standards they want met. Looks, job, personality, family, vices, sexual habits, religion, strength, agility, health, etc. The dating process is all about discovery of the other person in depth. Throw in lust (AKA "chemistry") and there you have it.

 

OK. I can believe that you DECIDE to love someone when they seem to be exactly (or enough of) what you're looking for. We reject people as potential lovers when they don't measure up, but when someone comes along that ticks all your boxes, then to some extent you do 'ALLOW' yourself to form a relationship. This is quite separate from ATTRACTION, which in itself is wonderful (but can lead to the deluded state of INFATUATION) but only a stepping stone onto the path of love itself. This is why so-called Love At First Sight is a load of rubbish - you can experience powerful Attraction At First Sight I agree, but love TAKES TIME to grow; it cannot just magic up from nowhere. The whole At First Sight is poisonous rubbish that should be educated out of modern culture, as it only leads to misery and unrealistic expectations.

 

So now I'm OK with this "love is a decision" statement, IF I CAN ADD on one bit to it :

 

Love is a decision - when they meet your requirements.

 

So if I realise my partner does NOT meet my requirements, it's not working because my requirements have never been met, and never will be ... then I feel justified in calling it a day.

 

[lindya]

I'm talking about the idiots who find the fireworks don't last forever and take it to mean their marriage and family should be sent to the scrap heap.

 

This is the answer for the, "I'm just not in love with my spouse anymore." kind of person. The one who just decides they've fallen out of love and don't know why. That crap is a cop-out. An excuse to blame some mystical "love" force for the heartache they're responsible for.

 

They DECIDED they don't want the relationship anymore because they selfishly want something better. Usually, they've found someone else and want to pursue it.

 

I think sometimes this happens (ie "trading in the spouse") when people constantly look to other people to inspire them and make them feel alive. They get bored in their lives, and assume that the partner is to blame for this - rather than considering that perhaps they personally are stagnating. I suppose that's the typical mid-life crisis scenario. Like the old vampire countess who constantly needed to bathe in the blood of virgins in order to feel energised.

[OldEurope]

You are more of an artist. You don't necessarily want to analyze something. You want it to remain mysterious. To analyze your feelings, emotions, and the why of them would dull their lustre for you. You would probably find it tedious at best. I understand this. Minds that think along your lines probably have an entirly different way of explaining and thinking about abstract concepts like emotions and feelings.

 

You must also understand that I am of a more scientific mind. I feel compelled to analyze my feelings and the why of them. To understand them doesn't dull them for me at all. Everything has a why and a reason. The way it all fits together and runs is beautiful in it's entirety. For me, once you understand it, you have more control over it.

 

 

I was a military affairs and emerging markets correspondent for a big US newspaper for 15 years---not a poet-painter off in la la land here!

 

Some "analytical" minds such as mine do try to examine love inside out, top-down and back again, yet nonetheless come to see love and human emotion as occupying a far different category than what can be grasped and understood through the standards of empirical proofs and euclidean logic.

[Becoming]

Some "analytical" minds such as mine do try to examine love inside out, top-down and back again, yet nonetheless come to see love and human emotion as occupying a far different category than what can be grasped and understood through the standards of empirical proofs and euclidean logic.

 

So love has its own logic that you decide to follow?

 

Seriously, is this true? That love has its own logic, which is mysteriously illogical?

[Devils Advocate]

OK. I can believe that you DECIDE to love someone when they seem to be exactly (or enough of) what you're looking for. We reject people as potential lovers when they don't measure up, but when someone comes along that ticks all your boxes, then to some extent you do 'ALLOW' yourself to form a relationship. This is quite separate from ATTRACTION, which in itself is wonderful (but can lead to the deluded state of INFATUATION) but only a stepping stone onto the path of love itself. This is why so-called Love At First Sight is a load of rubbish - you can experience powerful Attraction At First Sight I agree, but love TAKES TIME to grow; it cannot just magic up from nowhere. The whole At First Sight is poisonous rubbish that should be educated out of modern culture, as it only leads to misery and unrealistic expectations.

 

So now I'm OK with this "love is a decision" statement, IF I CAN ADD on one bit to it :

 

Love is a decision - when they meet your requirements.

 

So if I realise my partner does NOT meet my requirements, it's not working because my requirements have never been met, and never will be ... then I feel justified in calling it a day.

 

 

What you say is on the surface an acceptable and understandable comment but dig a little deeper and it is just a nicer way of saying the same thing, "I'm bored with you and want to try someone else."

 

Now if they never met your requirements why would you ever be with them ? (love is a decision is correct but all decisions had better be informed ones or it is no better than the love at first sight ideal)

Taking the example that you have presented and applying these ideals "Love is a decision - when they meet your requirements" then this partner at one time did meet all of yours but something has to change before that is no longer true. The only possibilities are you changed (your wants, goals or desires) or they did.

It is an important facet of this philosophy that you have to communicate, be honest with, and support your partner (and definately let them know how any changes are affecting you WHEN THEY HAPPEN not years later). Doing so should keep you growing and changing in the same way and avoid the very problem that has been the death knell of so many marriages. The "We grew apart" excuse only exists if you allow it to happen to you and the point of this philosophy is to not let that happen.

[Ditherer]

What you say is on the surface an acceptable and understandable comment but dig a little deeper and it is just a nicer way of saying the same thing, "I'm bored with you and want to try someone else."

 

Now if they never met your requirements why would you ever be with them ? ... this partner at one time did meet all of yours but something has to change before that is no longer true. The only possibilities are you changed (your wants, goals or desires) or they did.

 

In my case I was simply immature and not strong enough to finish the relationship YEARS AGO when I should have. I've simply 'gone along with it' because I felt there was no better alternative. That sucks, I know, and you don't have to tell me what a fool I've been, I'm all too painfully aware of how feeble I am. Guilty as charged!

 

So what now? It's OK to decide NOT to start a relationship with someone, because they don't meet your requirements. It's OK to FINISH a non-marital elationship with someone if you're honest and straightforward to them about how things have changed, or you've come to realise it's not working. But if the same thing happens in a marriage.. what then? Despite what the "you made a commitment, you carry on at all costs" brigade think, I think if you KNOW deep-down.. if you're 100% sure you've done all you can but you simply CANNOT make it work, then it's only fair to all involved to give it up and move on.

 

*I* know it's not a straightforward case that I used to love her to bits but now I'm "bored and want to find something exciting again" - no, I've no real confidence I'll EVER find what I'm after, but I know I've never had it here. It's never been right. I've just been too weak to let go of the "something that's a bit better than nothing".

[Ladyjane14]

Because love is not a feeling, it is a decision.

 

I'm with Slubber...."Love is a decision.

 

Even further, I think most folks who have successfully reconciled a previously troubled marriage would agree with that. We decide to love and trust our partners. We re-make that decision every day. We treat Love and Trust in the manner of verbs....an action that is done DECISIVELY, demonstratively.

 

Love isn't a crack in the sidewalk that you "fall" into. That would be Infatuation, and it only lasts for about two years on average. Strong stuff to be sure, and most of us have erroneously called it love at some point or another. Infatuation might result in a heart-pounding, palm-sweating, knee-quivering good time...but still, it ain't the 'real deal'.

 

I think what prevents marriages from becoming stale, what results in "the real deal", might be in as simple as Teamwork. As a concept, that might sound juvenile or utilitarian....but it's more than what it appears on the surface.

 

For many years, I stood my ground and expected for my husband to join MY team. Time went by, and obviously THAT wasn't working!

 

Then came a serious crisis in our marriage. We had reached 'The End' really. I saw him jumping off the edge of the earth, and in sympathy for him, I pulled him back from the precipace...and made a "decision" to join HIS team.

 

I don't think gender roles necessarily matter in that decision. Women shouldn't have to follow their husband's lead as if it were the 1950's. It's possible that the criteria for who joins who's team could be as simple as NEED. If your partner is having a rough time....then why not support him/her? Why not get on their team?

 

Obviously, I'm not talking about toxic people. I'm not talking about people engaged in deal-breaking behaviors at a chronic level. That's a different thing altogether. But if you love your mate, and if they're a decent person, albeit with human faults....then why not be supportive of them, and why not do it at a level that is completely energetic and participitory?

 

We tend to think of partnership in terms of plurality, and why not?...the word "partnership" suggests it. But if you were really playing a team sport....like soccer for example, then the success of the game might be determined by simply choosing your 'field position' accurately. Individuality counts at that point, talent, strength. Not just your own but your partner's as well. You can each play forward and then back at need. You can play side by side agressively or defensively. But it'll never be static. There's just the two of you to cover the whole field afterall.

 

At the end of the day though....it's a DECISION to stay in the game. It's a decision to support and love your partner. It's a decision to accept their love and support in return. It's not always easy. Sometimes we're "not feeling the love". Sometimes we're gonna have to work and sweat to get to the good place again. But that's what keeps it interesting, not boring at all.....when you're bringing your 'A-game'.

[Devils Advocate]

In my case I was simply immature and not strong enough to finish the relationship YEARS AGO when I should have. I've simply 'gone along with it' because I felt there was no better alternative. That sucks, I know, and you don't have to tell me what a fool I've been, I'm all too painfully aware of how feeble I am. Guilty as charged!

 

So what now? It's OK to decide NOT to start a relationship with someone, because they don't meet your requirements. It's OK to FINISH a non-marital elationship with someone if you're honest and straightforward to them about how things have changed, or you've come to realise it's not working. But if the same thing happens in a marriage.. what then? Despite what the "you made a commitment, you carry on at all costs" brigade think, I think if you KNOW deep-down.. if you're 100% sure you've done all you can but you simply CANNOT make it work, then it's only fair to all involved to give it up and move on.

 

*I* know it's not a straightforward case that I used to love her to bits but now I'm "bored and want to find something exciting again" - no, I've no real confidence I'll EVER find what I'm after, but I know I've never had it here. It's never been right. I've just been too weak to let go of the "something that's a bit better than nothing".

 

I've bolded the bits that are most important in this paragraph and let's address them now.

 

First, are you really sure that you have done all you can ? Most separating couples state that is so but truthfully the ones who try a little harder and approach the areas of their lives that are causing this disturbance with more reason and less emotion tend to realise these difficulties are simply the daily difficulties of interacting with others and the problems will always be there no matter who their with.

 

Second, "you never had what you were after", here is the major contention between the two approaches towards relationships. Define what it is that you want and verbalize that. Customarily once you have decide what this mysterious something is and stated it aloud things will become clearer. What you will probably say is you wanted some "wonderful feeling" that cannot truly be defined and that whoever is in your life is not giving it to you. You fail to realize that you are the only one responsible for how you feel. Others can try to inspire them in you but only you can make them happen.

 

In conclusion, the point we're trying to express is do not look to your partner as the solver or source of all problems, simply see them as the one who is there to support you as you try to solve your own.

[Outcast]

Great post, Ladyjane, and kudos to you, too, DA

[Becoming]

I think what prevents marriages from becoming stale, what results in "the real deal", might be in as simple as Teamwork. As a concept, that might sound juvenile or utilitarian....but it's more than what it appears on the surface.

 

For many years, I stood my ground and expected for my husband to join MY team. Time went by, and obviously THAT wasn't working!

 

Then came a serious crisis in our marriage. We had reached 'The End' really. I saw him jumping off the edge of the earth, and in sympathy for him, I pulled him back from the precipace...and made a "decision" to join HIS team. . . . .

 

 

At the end of the day though....it's a DECISION to stay in the game. It's a decision to support and love your partner. It's a decision to accept their love and support in return. It's not always easy. Sometimes we're "not feeling the love". Sometimes we're gonna have to work and sweat to get to the good place again. But that's what keeps it interesting, not boring at all.....when you're bringing your 'A-game'.

 

 

Yes, LJ, this is a great post, but I wanted to ask you about this team thing. Does it have to be either his team or your team? My huband and I have had that power struggle and now are working to create our own team together, playing to our individual strengths and supporting our weaknesses. It's hard work, to be sure, but never boring. (Sometimes tiring, but not boring.)

I guess I bristle at the either-or nature of joining either his tearm or her team.

But maybe that's just me.

[Outcast]

I guess I bristle at the either-or nature of joining either his tearm or her team.

 

Two possible answers. One is that you take turns joining each other's 'team'. The other is that there's no such thing as 'his' and 'her' teams. The two make a team together. It's not about wins and losses but about win-win solutions. Both people need to strive to seek a win for each other.

[Becoming]

Two possible answers. One is that you take turns joining each other's 'team'. The other is that there's no such thing as 'his' and 'her' teams. The two make a team together. It's not about wins and losses but about win-win solutions. Both people need to strive to seek a win for each other.

 

Right. It's not about winning over the other: that just leads to loss for both. It's about winning together. I get that.

 

But sometimes when two people marry who have power issues, it becomes "my way or the highway." I couldn't join anybody's team under those conditions.

 

But I don't think that's what LJ is talking about. So we await her enlightenment. . . .

[Outcast]

I believe what LJ was saying was that SHE was the perpetrator of the 'my way or the highway' crime. We see it a lot, especially in the anti-porn discussions.

[sumdude]

The problem is that Love is both a noun and a verb.

[Becoming]

I believe what LJ was saying was that SHE was the perpetrator of the 'my way or the highway' crime. We see it a lot, especially in the anti-porn discussions.

 

Ah, ok. I don't have the history you do. Thanks.

[Outcast]

From her post above:

 

For many years, I stood my ground and expected for my husband to join MY team. Time went by, and obviously THAT wasn't working!

[Ditherer]

Although there are some similarities with this thread originally and my case, and I started off with generalities, I feel I'd be hijacking this thread with more specific details of my situation, so I'll try to stop that and keep my stuff in my thread... DA, I've responded there ( http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t68535/ ), should you wish to read it!

Thanks

[Ladyjane14]

Oops. I had a REALLY long post, but then I lost it. I'll have to re-create it in a day or two when my schedule isn't quite so hectic. Between the holidays and work....I'm just beat.

 

Thanks for the nice compliments Outcast and Becoming.

[Becoming]

Looking forward to it, LJ. I lost a longish post yesterday, too.

[JESSICA23]

He Has been like this off and on.. it seems like he can just trun on the switch whenever he feels like its not an issue anymore.. and if it was a problem AS IN DEPRESSION.. I told him two years ago when we first started having this problem to go get some help.. BUT HE DIDNT.. i told him i would go with him .. but he didnt. so i figured well i suppose he can fix it on his own. which he did way better for a few months.But then he started back at his old ways. He is ver y controlling too and i feel like i have to ask permission on everything i do and I AM A GROWN WOMAN.. dont tell me NO.. we can discuss it but dont just tell me NO. He dosent like to go out and do things.. he used to but now he says hes a homebody.. I have to beg him to go out with friends.. to the comment about telling him to go take a shower.. I DO AND IM SOOO SICK OF IT.. he is a grown MAN>>>>>>> and i didnt marry a 10 year old ya know.. i tell him you better go take a shower before you come to bed.. he works in an office and they alll smoke except him IN THE BUILDING and he wants to come home and go to bed and cuddle without even showering.. I cringe when he touches me.. i go to a different place when we have sex. JUST SO I CAN RELAX.

[FWIW]

You hooked up way too young, and you've grown apart. It happens - don't feel guilty.

You DO need to talk to him about it. Tell him exactly how you feel and ask him to decide what he wants. Either he shapes up and meets you at LEAST halfway or that's it. If he's not prepared to put in the effort to give you WHAT YOU DESERVE (things he's QUITE capable of) then he's not giving any commitment to the marriage, and as far as you're concerned it's over.

Don't waste your life on a relationship that's broken beyoned repair. Life's too short to waste hanging around in a hopeless situation.

Good luck, and a virtual hug if you need one

[Ladyjane14]

Two possible answers. One is that you take turns joining each other's 'team'. The other is that there's no such thing as 'his' and 'her' teams. The two make a team together.

 

Weirdly enough, I think BOTH of the 'two possible answers" are right. And I don't think it's necessarily a case of 'either/or'.

 

I've started to look at my marriage in a different way lately. And this is hard to explain, so bear with me......

 

It used to be that I thought of my marriage as a blending of two individuals creating Unity. The goal being perfect partnership in which the two former individuals operate in unison to achieve happiness.

 

These days, I've come to realize that my former ideal was unrealistic. There are in actuality THREE entities involved in a good two-person partnership; the individuals themselves accounting for two of the three, and the union of those two individuals being the third.

 

It's somewhat abstract thinking, I suppose. I have a hard time wrapping it up in words. How can there be three entities when there are only two people? But I think that respect for Individuality is often lost in marriage. People tend to focus on the aspect of Unity, much as I once did. The expectation is that the couple will always operate as ONE team; a perfect partnership working toward common goals. Individuality isn't given it's due.

 

Unity is a good thing when dealing with goals that are common to both partners; things like keeping a roof over the family's head, food on the table, and enough money set by to get the kids through college . But if the expectation of perfect unity doesn't allow equal room for individuality....then there can't help but be strife. Power struggles for control of the captaincy of the "team" can't help but ensue as each individual strives to forward his/her personal goals and ideals.

 

Maybe success requires a certain omnipresence in all three aspects of the partnership. In other words, to be a constant player on all three teams....'yours', 'mine', and 'ours'.

 

I do think that in choosing "field position", it's wise to put your best effort where it's most needed. When your partner is in trouble, YOU are in trouble. Since you've been present on his team all along, you have an awareness of his needs, but it's time to put some sweat into it when he's having a tough time.

 

This doesn't have to be about the BIG deals in life. It can be the little things. Example: Husband comes in from work breathing fire. He's surly, snapping at the kids and complaining about everything and anything that strays into his view.

 

If you choose that moment to exert your energy to HIS team, maybe you'll find out he's just hungry or frustrated. You can make him a sandwich or just listen while he vents out his troubles. You can be 100% participatory in HIS moment. It's about different levels of efforting. You're present in all aspects, but expending more energy where the need is greatest.

 

Not easy to be sure. It's more natual to recoil from your partner's bad attitude when he's in conflict. But the payoff is that once he realizes that you truly are 'on his side'.....he's going to recover much more quickly. If he's a pretty good guy, eventually he'll begin to reciprocate.

 

The bottom line is that because you are omnipresent in all three aspects, you're aware when you need to exert more effort in the one that is 'needy'. Expending your energy doesn't have to be static and equal. It can be fluid, where you put more effort 'here' and less 'there', depending on which aspect of the relationship needs the most attention.

 

You can't make choices for your partner. You can't tell him where he ought to expend his effort. But that doesn't mean that YOU shouldn't make the best choices possible on how you should expend your effort.

 

And it is necessary to spend some on yourself too. You can't be interesting if you aren't Individual. You're not unique if you're just an extension of another person. Further, when you don't tend to yourself....chances are good that you're building resentment because of it. That will just cause more difficulty and friction.

 

There are times when your partner's needs will be of greater moment than your own. If you look at your energy expenditure as something "fluid", something that you can make adjustments to fairly quickly....then it's not so difficult to forego offense when your partner's needs interrupt your own. It's a temporary crisis.

 

Say "Surly Husband" came home 'breathing fire' and catches you indulging your individuality. Say, you're reading a book or painting a picture. Well, it's a "sweat" to put your own thing on hold, it's extra effort to put aside your own needs. But it's temporary. If his crisis is bigger, then it needs the energy first. You don't have cause to get 'bent out of shape', because you know that you'll be able to shift your energy back into your own endeavors soon enough.

 

Anyway, this is a long post...and it's still a 'work in progress' here. I suppose we all muddle through as best we can. But I can say this....that since we've each adopted a more generous attitude with each other, we're enjoying our relationship alot more. We're working with better unity as well. Of course, we still have occasional disagreements and misunderstandings. There are still some snags, but our recovery time has improved.