What makes preaching good and bad?

[Becoming]

Have you sat through bad sermons that made you want to run lunatic in the streets? Preaching that's good can be life-changing and glorious. But bad preaching is enough to make you want to lose your religion sometimes. So I was wondering: What makes preaching good from your point of view? And what makes it bad? I'm interested in hearing the thoughts of both the devout and the folks who don't regularly go to church/synagogue/temple/ whatever.

[a4a]

I find it highly annoying that people preach to me in any form about religion. If I wanted to be preached to I would go to a church or other org. of faith to hear it.

 

I had a great experience with Mennonites recently..... I was very impressed by them as a group. Not once did they push their convictions on me, not once did they even hint to their religious belief. They came to volunteer, hundreds of them...... literally hundreds of them....and thanked me to no end for allowing them the oppurtunity to do so.

 

If one is going to promote religion......action speaks much louder than words in my view.

 

a4a

[Admiral Thrawn]

Have you sat through bad sermons that made you want to run lunatic in the streets? Preaching that's good can be life-changing and glorious. But bad preaching is enough to make you want to lose your religion sometimes. So I was wondering: What makes preaching good from your point of view? And what makes it bad? I'm interested in hearing the thoughts of both the devout and the folks who don't regularly go to church/synagogue/temple/ whatever.

 

Good preaching is Annointed preaching, the speaker is speaking with a holy passsion and fire and is bringing up insightful points from the word of God.

 

Bad preaching is when they start saying pay this and God will bless you, and start hammering at it, to the perspective, that you will get financially rewarded with special blessings, if you give to the Lord. The problem with this is that God is Sovereign, and if the blessings dont come, or do not come as expected, then people are going to be angry with religion, meanwhile the church has pocketed the extra money as a result of this type of preaching.

 

As for people who do not have money to really give, they encourage risking rent money or mortgage money to see that God will bless them. This will likely turn some people off.

[Becoming]

I find it highly annoying that people preach to me in any form about religion. If I wanted to be preached to I would go to a church or other org. of faith to hear it.

 

I had a great experience with Mennonites recently..... I was very impressed by them as a group. Not once did they push their convictions on me, not once did they even hint to their religious belief. They came to volunteer, hundreds of them...... literally hundreds of them....and thanked me to no end for allowing them the oppurtunity to do so.

 

If one is going to promote religion......action speaks much louder than words in my view.

 

a4a

 

We've got some great Mennonites doing great things here as well. They're refreshing, huh?

 

Is it the tone and/or content of preaching that annoys you? Or just the whole idea of preaching? What makes the tone preachy to you?

 

I hate the "I'm better than you and I know the truth" kind of authoritarian tone that some preachers have. I can't hear what they're saying because of their holier-than-thou sanctimonious tone.

[Outcast]

Take Joel Osteen as an example. I don't watch him regularly, but every time I've seen him, he's an encourager, not a demander. He doesn't look for sinners to condemn. His style is not 'I know all and have THE ULTIMATE TRUTH' but rather 'I believe this is a good way to live'. He talks about what Jesus talked about - love and forgiveness.

 

I hope very much that his popularity won't go to his head and turn him into one of those (shudder) TV money-grubber knowitall loonies because I think his brand of active, loving, compassionate Christianity is the sort that the world needs.

[a4a]

It is the preaching itself. I do not want to be converted, I do not want to hear or learn about religion unless I choose to do so on my own time in my own way. I do not attempt to push my views on people unless asked or it is a current conversation of a topic or side topic that is related.

 

I do find it disrespectful when people attempt the cold conversion ......

walk up to you while shopping, shove pamphlets at you, knock on your door, or attempt to preach to me when I did not ask for, did not desire, and want nothing to do with their religious belief.

 

I do have great respect for the group that I dealt with. Quite obvious that group practices what they preach in their org. I also have great respect for them as they did not feel the need to attempt a cold conversion, nor did they even ever ask about my religious belief....their non preaching was the best preaching I have ever heard.

 

a4a

[slubberdegullion]

IMHO, a good preacher will talk to me where I live, where the rubber hits the road.

 

Don't tell me about Great King What's-His-Crown who lay seige to a town and prayed for God to vanquish the infidels. Tell me about what it means.

 

Don't tell me that I was born a sinner. Tell me what sin is.

 

Don't beak on about how wonderful life is when you walk with Jesus. Tell me what walking with Jesus means.

 

Don't tell me that God is sovereign when there is so much anger, hate and death in the world. Tell me what I and others can do to bring peace to our little corner of the world.

 

Don't tell me that the Earth was created in 6 days, in 4004 BC, sometime in mid-October. Tell me how that myth came to be, how it was influenced by culture and dogma, and what it means to us today.

 

Don't tell me that Darwin was evil. Tell me how Darwin and faith can co-exist.

[Admiral Thrawn]

IMHO, a good preacher will talk to me where I live, where the rubber hits the road.

 

Don't tell me about Great King What's-His-Crown who lay seige to a town and prayed for God to vanquish the infidels. Tell me about what it means.

 

Don't tell me that I was born a sinner. Tell me what sin is.

 

Don't beak on about how wonderful life is when you walk with Jesus. Tell me what walking with Jesus means.

 

Don't tell me that God is sovereign when there is so much anger, hate and death in the world. Tell me what I and others can do to bring peace to our little corner of the world.

 

Don't tell me that the Earth was created in 6 days, in 4004 BC, sometime in mid-October. Tell me how that myth came to be, how it was influenced by culture and dogma, and what it means to us today.

 

Don't tell me that Darwin was evil. Tell me how Darwin and faith can co-exist.

 

It looks like you need some serious instruction on the rudiments of Christian theology:

 

Sin means falling short of God's standard (i.e. The Ten Commandments).

The Ten Commandments are as follows:

 

1) No idols shall be worshipped. Only one God, and He comes first in your life.

 

2) Do not say the name of the Lord in vain.

 

3) Six days you will work, keep seventh day holy.

 

4) Honour your parents.

 

5) Thou shalt not kill.

 

6) Thou shalt not steal.

 

7) Thou shalt not commit adultery

 

8) Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

 

9) Thou shalt not covet neighbours material possessions.

 

10) Thou shalt not covet neighbours wife.

 

Everybody has broken at least one of these commandments.

If you have broken any of these commandments, at least at one point in your life, that makes you a sinner.

 

Have you said the Lord's name in vain? Do you have idols in your life, or is the things of God first priority? Have you looked at someone else's wife and wanted to use her? Have you ever lied or deceived someone to your benefit and their detriment?

 

Jesus even goes further and says - if you hate someone - you are just as well a murderer. If you lust over someone's wife - you are just as well an adulterer.

 

So, that is what sin means in a nutshell. People have a pre-disposition to sin because they are of the evil corrupted Adamic seed. Because Adam ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, we've mutated into some evil God-hating and commandment breaking race and basically need a Savior rebirth us into a spiritual race.

 

Before we discuss 'walking with Jesus', you first have to understand in the Old Testament, a Lamb had to be killed to atone for the sins of the people for a year. Otherwise, people had to be stoned, or die and go to hell for committing any one of these sins. Everyone, will breach the law many, many, many times. There is no other way to pay for your sins then to go straight to hell, without God for eternity, and suffer in hellfire - except by accepting the atonement of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was punished on the cross for each and every sin you have committed. He did this because He loves you.

 

Once you accept Jesus into your life, then He said that He will never leave you nor forsake you. Even if you sin again, He is faithful and just to continue to forgive you and cleanse you from unrighteousness. That is the relationship with Jesus, it is a new walk with Jesus.

 

Anyway, I will not go on further unless you or anyone else reply. This is really the rudimentary elements of Christian theology that you really need to know.

 

As far as God's Sovereignity and Creation vs. Science, I do not wish to go into that. I know that there is evil in the world. God's way of dealing with it is to destroy the world system and start ruling the world directly Himself. Jesus will return and start a 1000 year reign in Jerusalem. The world system will be destroyed at the Battle of Armageddon. It will be another big topic to discuss Bible Prophecy.

 

Just like Jesus had to die on the cross to purge sin from people who trust Him as Savior, and a Lamb (which is pre-figured Christ) had to die in the Old Testament, God has an order of doing things. He is not simply going to start making a utopian society out of the blue, because the Jews rejected Him as King and crucified Him. He will have to return, when the Jews are about to be wiped out, and they finally call on Him to save them, then He will establish His rulership over the world, defeat the Anti-christ, and the evil army that almost destroyed the Jews in the future.

 

Again, Bible prophecy is another big topic.

[quankanne]

I don't want to hear that I'm a sinner destined for hell or have what I've done wrong pounded into me because I know that. I would much rather see and hear and feel the message of hope given when the priest or deacon tells me that no matter how screwed up I am, God loves me simply because I am His.

 

my co-worker's husband is the deacon at my parish, and he is very effective at delivering his homily (sermon) because he weaves in the message of hope and love with that day's Gospel reading as well as personal observation as a husband, daddy and son, all done in a short, to the point manner. Our priest also gives some pretty good homilies, though he sometimes goes long on them …

[Admiral Thrawn]

I don't want to hear that I'm a sinner destined for hell or have what I've done wrong pounded into me because I know that. I would much rather see and hear and feel the message of hope given when the priest or deacon tells me that no matter how screwed up I am, God loves me simply because I am His.

 

my co-worker's husband is the deacon at my parish, and he is very effective at delivering his homily (sermon) because he weaves in the message of hope and love with that day's Gospel reading as well as personal observation as a husband, daddy and son, all done in a short, to the point manner. Our priest also gives some pretty good homilies, though he sometimes goes long on them …

 

Are you saved?

[a4a]

Are you saved?

 

This question often baffles me........

 

a4a

[Becoming]

Ok Admiral, take the preaching elsewhere, please. I'm interested in hearing what people have to say on this subject, and as host for this question, I'm not interested in subjecting them to what many don't appreciate about preaching. The gospel can't be good news for those who are being choked by someone shoving it down their throat (a characteristic of bad preaching, IMHO).

[quankanne]

Are you saved?

 

that's okay, Bec, I'll bite ...

 

in what sense are you speaking of salvation? Do I believe that Jesus died on the cross for me? That he saved me from the fires of hell? That he's saving a seat before God? Yes, yes and yes.

 

however, being cognizant of these things doesn't make me any more "saved" than the person who is not aware of the salvation Christ offers because his act of love and sacrifice is an all-inclusive plan. Meaning, I believe all of mankind is saved by Christ, past, present and future, whether they profess belief or not.

[Outcast]

Just say 'yes'.

[Becoming]

Just say 'yes'.

 

And move on . . .

[Admiral Thrawn]

Are you saved?

 

that's okay, Bec, I'll bite ...

 

in what sense are you speaking of salvation? Do I believe that Jesus died on the cross for me? That he saved me from the fires of hell? That he's saving a seat before God? Yes, yes and yes.

 

however, being cognizant of these things doesn't make me any more "saved" than the person who is not aware of the salvation Christ offers because his act of love and sacrifice is an all-inclusive plan. Meaning, I believe all of mankind is saved by Christ, past, present and future, whether they profess belief or not.

 

 

I do not share the same belief though, if people do not hear or refuse the gospel, then they are lost. That is why Evangelists and Missionaries are making a huge effort to reach the whole world for Christ. They are going to Africa, Indonesia, Russia, South America, on a mission, because they know each soul save is one soul less going to hell.

 

There are many, many, many people around the world who are starving and desperate for the truth of the Gospel. To assume, everything is just going to be normal, if they do not get access, or at least an opportunity to hear the truth, is a lie.

 

It is not enough just to be aware of Jesus as a historical, or model religious figure, or have a belief that is just based on mental assent. This all has to be 'real', not some mental belief in order to be true. The blood of Jesus Christ, has to literally be applied to your soul. The Bible says, it is something that is 'appropriated' by faith, and that seems a bit stronger than mental assent.

 

Do you really believe? Are you really right with God today?

 

If you are congradulations! Otherwise, I'd be a bit worried, and really, really, make sure that I was saved. Because you dont want any surprises after the fact.

[Moose]

What makes preaching good from your point of view?

When the Spirit filled messenger backs up their sermon with Scripture.

And what makes it bad?

ANYTHING other than above.

[Nicholas]

If one is going to promote religion......action speaks much louder than words in my view.

“Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words.” - St. Francis

[EnigmaXOXO]

So I was wondering: What makes preaching good from your point of view? And what makes it bad?

 

I want to know that the man/woman attempting to bestow their wisdom upon me actually walks their talk. I want to recognize G-d through their actions, and not their words. And it's because of my unshakable faith, belief and trust in G-d (alone) that I'm fearful to place too much merit in the hypocrisy and hidden agendas of my fellow man.

 

Let that man or woman come baring stories of his own personal witness, rather than reading from a rehearsed script written by someone else. I want to hear how your life was changed through your faith. Spread your joy by sharing your personal miracles, not your convictions.

 

I believe that 'faith' and/or 'religion' is a personal blessing granted to each one of us regardless of our cultural differences. Those who's lives have been changed profoundly by their beliefs (or personal witness) often feel so empowered, that they want to share that gift. But in their eagerness to do so, they sometimes fail to recognize that G-d may have already granted their neighbor that same gift … just in a different way.

 

How is it, that in our excitement, we petty humans lose sight of our similarities and go about the unholy process of forcing each other to 'convert' to our own belief systems? Trying to pave our own road to salvation by "saving the souls" of others who probably didn't need any saving in the first place. If a man has "faith" in the goodness within him, then G-d has already been there and, for me, I wouldn't dare try to undo the Devine's work by fixing what clearly isn't broken. A man who truly knows G-d never feels alone, even if no one will join him and he's standing on his own.

 

I think I feel the same way as a fundamentalist Christian might feel if a devout Hebrew of Muslim tried to convince me through preaching that G-d speaks only through their doctrine and scripture … and that unless I accepted it as the gospel truth, I will be lost. Having already bared personal witness myself, I am somewhat saddened that in our ignorance and selfish desire to hang onto the Holy Spirit as our own personal possession, we attempt to "box" G-d in and claim ownership.

 

I'm probably just idealistic or perhaps not rigid enough in my own expression of faith, but I truly believe that salvation for mankind will only come when we finally learn to recognize how unlimited, universal, and all-encompassing the Devine's works (and words) really are.

[Becoming]

It's interesting that the Spirit shows up in both Enigma's and Moose's posts (maybe others, too, but these immediate ones spring to mind--don't mean to exclude).

 

What does Spirit-filled preaching mean exactly? I know what it is from my point of view, but am interested in others'. I suspect Enigma and Moose might differ on this, but maybe not. It sounds like Enigma's got a personal and universalist Spirit. How does that not devolve into a "Hitler has his God, I have mine" kind of thing?

 

Is the preacher just called to testify? Why, then, do we ordain some? Can't anyone just get up and give their personal witness?

 

I'm not seeking to be polemic; I'm really interested in hearing what others have to say.

[HokeyReligions]

IMHO, a good preacher will talk to me where I live, where the rubber hits the road.

 

Don't tell me about Great King What's-His-Crown who lay seige to a town and prayed for God to vanquish the infidels. Tell me about what it means.

 

Don't tell me that I was born a sinner. Tell me what sin is.

 

Don't beak on about how wonderful life is when you walk with Jesus. Tell me what walking with Jesus means.

 

Don't tell me that God is sovereign when there is so much anger, hate and death in the world. Tell me what I and others can do to bring peace to our little corner of the world.

 

Don't tell me that the Earth was created in 6 days, in 4004 BC, sometime in mid-October. Tell me how that myth came to be, how it was influenced by culture and dogma, and what it means to us today.

 

Don't tell me that Darwin was evil. Tell me how Darwin and faith can co-exist.

 

Great post. Your idea of a good preacher or sermon is similar to mine. Beyond this it becomes Bible Study - done in a different setting.

 

 

Equating God's law to today's problems. SHOWing me how to incorporate my belief (if I had one!) into daily living and dealing with today's problems and social issues using the ancient scriptures. Demonstrating how to be saved and how to know the difference between leaning on faith and embracing faith.

[HokeyReligions]

It's interesting that the Spirit shows up in both Enigma's and Moose's posts (maybe others, too, but these immediate ones spring to mind--don't mean to exclude).

 

What does Spirit-filled preaching mean exactly? I know what it is from my point of view, but am interested in others'. I suspect Enigma and Moose might differ on this, but maybe not. It sounds like Enigma's got a personal and universalist Spirit. How does that not devolve into a "Hitler has his God, I have mine" kind of thing?

 

Is the preacher just called to testify? Why, then, do we ordain some? Can't anyone just get up and give their personal witness?

 

I'm not seeking to be polemic; I'm really interested in hearing what others have to say.

 

To me "spirit filled" preaching shows in someone who is genuinly filled with joy and love and frankly bursting at the seems to share it with others because they honestly want others to feel as happy and fulfilled as they feel. They find the scripture that brought them to God and that which they cling to for guidance and encouragement and share that with others.

[Moose]

What does Spirit-filled preaching mean exactly?

To me, it means the person who is preaching is allowing the Holy Spirit fill his/her soul and letting the words simply flow out of their mouths as if guided supernaturally.

 

I've seen this happen a lot. I've even experienced it personally when witnessing to others. They would ask questions, and even though I knew I didn't know the answer, it would spill out of my mouth, with reference to scripture even.....kinda eerie, but at the same time, very humbling that the Holy Spirit would even consider dwelling within me, giving me chills thinkin' bout it.

 

"Preach the Gospel at all times, and when neccessary use words".....

Excellent quote. Leading by example.

 

Words that come out of your mouth are a direct reflection of your soul. If you're, "Spirit Filled", it will show in your words, actions, and even your lack of actions.....

[Nicholas]

I had a Priest once that was really good about relating things to our lives. I don't know if it was spirit-filled or not (I'm unclear on what that really means) but it was definitely inspiring to hear him speak.

 

He made religioius adherence really accessible. For example, he gave a really good speech on gluttony where he insisted that, for most, it has nothing to do with eating. He also used humor really well.

 

I don't think I'm describing it as well as I'd like to. He was good though. He made it clear that he wasn't above any of it, it was nice to feel like we're walking with him instead of to him.

 

The thing that bothers me most about preaching is when someone speaks without knowing what they are talking about. Sure, God's law is absolute, but there's something really unsettling [and, I feel, unchristian] about heterosexuals speaking of the sinfulness of homosexuality.

[Chris777]

It's interesting that the Spirit shows up in both Enigma's and Moose's posts (maybe others, too, but these immediate ones spring to mind--don't mean to exclude).

thats part of the actual problem they aren't nessesarily the same spirit. the Bible warns us to test all spirits to see if they are of God.

for example many professing "christians" adore and follow leaders such as our president, even going so far as excusing their behavior that is clearly NOT Christian. "ye shall know them by their fruit" the very same man who professes to follow Jesus, in one turn slaps that very same savior, by trying to please men, by professing that Mohammed is a prophet (when biblicaly he is NOT) and then slapps back when he should have turned the other cheek (911 and everything since) their are many people that claim to be christians, but do their actions , when compared to the Bible, really demonstrate it?

What does Spirit-filled preaching mean exactly? I know what it is from my point of view, but am interested in others'. I suspect Enigma and Moose might differ on this, but maybe not. It sounds like Enigma's got a personal and universalist Spirit. How does that not devolve into a "Hitler has his God, I have mine" kind of thing?

 

thats why you hear so many Christians adhere to the bible as absolute, in that if one is truely a Christian , they believe it as a guide.

If you believe God is the author, then why would he contradict it?

especially if his son had to endure torture, and death fo it, not to mention the faithful martyrs?

without having a standard any yahoo can get up and proclaim he, or she has found the "new and improved"(more evolved/enlightened) path/way . Ranging from Budda, Mohammed, Joseph smith, Charles T. Russel, Ghandi, Hitler, David Koresch, Ron Hubbard, The Dahli Llama. The list is endless, but historically only 1 man has ever came back. What does that say? As a Christian, I am confronted with thousands of opinions of men(and their utter fantasys as well) and I can choose to either dismiss the Bible, as many modern "christians" do, thus falling away from the truth, or I can believe it. I saw a show on Houdini, the other night, talking about his quest to expose spiritualist as frauds, where he teamed up with Popular Science Magazine, offering a reward, for any spiritist who could prove they had special powers. Well get this THEY WERE FOOLED big intellectual , scientific, "evolved" Popular Science magazine, was utterly fooled, by common magicians parlor tricks, from an elete socialite doctors wife. They were all but ready to give out a large reward, but Houdini knew better, and exposed her for a fraud.

and thats my point, smoke and mirrors looks good, looks real, but in the end its fantasy. their is a reason the Bible REPEATEDLY tells us to test things, people, spirits, etc. THEIR IS NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN. No matter how modern we think we are. we still repeat the same problems, and sins over and over. look at the results (the fruit)

 

Is the preacher just called to testify? Why, then, do we ordain some? Can't anyone just get up and give their personal witness?

It is didturbing how many preachers go in to get educated , going in believing the bible, and coming out not believing it.

Look at whom Jesus, chose to spread the gospel. It was not the

Sanhedron, not the Pharisees, or Sadducees , but simple plain ordinary working every men. How many times did Peter, or Paul publicly proclaim that they had the "annointing" of God, in the bible?

and how many do it today?

Matt 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name saying, I am Christ: and shall deceive many.

Matt 15:9 – But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men,

Rom 1:21 – Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Col 2:8 – Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the traditions of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Ephe 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Pro 14:12 – There is a way which seemeth right unto a man but the end thereof are the ways of death.

 

as for my witness , I used to be as secular and worldly as many still are, I believed , in evolution, that I was a good enough person to go to heaven, after all I wasn't as bad as "them". Then the Lord made me eat my own foolish words, as I now see how wicked I was, and we as humanity really are. It really rains on your world view to go from believing people are basically good, to realizing we are not and that we are at our very core our very essence evil. No matter How much I wanted to be the author of my own salvation, I couldn't be in that I had no more gleaning of the truth out of myself than all of the other so called enlightened people such as Martin Luther King, Ghandi,

Lincoln, and so many more combined. Think about it, what good is freedon, respect and equality, if you are still going to die? They are attractive Feel Good issues, but in the end they are shallow and meaningless in the light of eternity. So what if Lincoln freed the slaves, we are still slaves to capitalism, So what if Ghandi achieved his goals, through DISOBEDIENCE, and non violence, he only bred more anarchy, and the false belief that, his actions could bring about

lasting change, If the Jews in the holocaust behaved as Ghandi how many do you think would remain?, and Martin Luther King , ah misguided Martin Luther King , named after the man who on one hand helped bring about the Reformation, and on the other started telling his followerd to kill the jews if they did not convert.

he helped bring about an "integrated " society, but exactly what has been , and is being integrated? these were all JUST MEN, test them.

the next Hitler that comes along will have a tongue that sprays honey into most every ear it comes into contact with, but what bitterness, is the honey disguising?

be very careful what, and whom you follow, as deception is no more difficult to achieve, than telling people what they want to hear , rather than what they don't want, or like.

 

I'm not seeking to be polemic;

Neither am I, but sometimes all it takes is a spark

I'm really interested in hearing what others have to say.

ask and ye shall receive