Moose Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Thank you for sharing...... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Nicholas Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Think about it, what good is freedom, respect and equality, if you are still going to die? Plenty good enough for me! Death is part of the human condition, denial of its existence is no more productive than denying any other reality (read : evolution) in your pursuit of religious enlightenment. I would die this instant if freedom, respect, and equality were instantly realized across the planet. Who wouldn't? If we can descend the Kingdom of God to here on Earth, we have all the advantages of paradise without the disadvantages of uncertain faith and communal division. So what if Ghandi achieved his goals, through DISOBEDIENCE, and non violence, he only bred more anarchy, and the false belief that, his actions could bring about lasting change Is India in a state of anarchy? Are they under British rule? If the Jews in the holocaust behaved as Ghandi how many do you think would remain? What are you advocating? Violence? The revolution in India was successful because it preyed on the British identity. They were seen (rightfully) as uncivilized, which ultimately was more damaging to the Crown than violence. and Martin Luther King , ah misguided Martin Luther King , named after the man who on one hand helped bring about the Reformation, and on the other started telling his followerd to kill the jews if they did not convert. he helped bring about an "integrated " society, but exactly what has been , and is being integrated? these were all JUST MEN, test them. So what? Do no good on this Earth and sit around waiting for (corpal) death? That sounds less like a religion and more like a cult. Link to post Share on other sites
Sasperilla Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 The bad thing about preaching is that people who preach tend to have ONE view of the world, will stick to view no matter what, and also believe that they are right and everyone else is wrong. I guess that's why it's called 'preaching'. But everyone knows that this is the quickest way to turn someone off - e.g. saying 'I am right, you are wrong and it doesn't matter what your opinions are, beacause I am still right'. A much better way would be to have a shared discussion where everyone contributes and all opinions are considered. Of course, the danger is in this, that you have to actually argue your viewpoint and then some flaws in your thinking might be pointed out to you which does not allow you to cling to your dogma without some level of doubt. The other bad thing about preaching is the belief that there is one RIGHT religion. Why preach to people in different countries who have their own spiritual beliefs and are happy with them? It's because some people are so convinced that their religion is right and others are wrong and they want to 'save' them. So how do they know their religion is right? Because they have examined all the world religions and found the best one for them/one that makes most sense? No, because everytime they hear a different viewpoint, they put their fingers in their ears and say 'La,la,la - I'm right, you're wrong!' And the good things about preaching? Eh....nothing actually. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Sasperilla, Tell me, what good is a wavering faith when you accept all views? No good. That's why I believe a certain way, and I believe it's right. That's why others believe the way they do, and they believe it's right. It doesn't matter to me if it's a Catholic preacher, or a Jewish preacher, or whomever. If they're spirit lead, and they are using scripture....it's all good. Link to post Share on other sites
Sasperilla Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Moose, It's not about accepting all views. It's about considering and respecting other views. If you can accept that your belief that you are 'right' is subjective (rather than a fact) and that others believe that their religion is right, then there isn't a problem. I take my hat off to you if this is what you truly believe, because I have met few who can do so. Sasperilla, Tell me, what good is a wavering faith when you accept all views? No good. That's why I believe a certain way, and I believe it's right. That's why others believe the way they do, and they believe it's right. It doesn't matter to me if it's a Catholic preacher, or a Jewish preacher, or whomever. If they're spirit lead, and they are using scripture....it's all good. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Becoming Posted January 18, 2006 Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 I think I get the distinction, Sas. For me good preaching isn't about shoving THE TRUTH (as though it is the absolute truth and not just my persective on the truth) down someone's throat. I do believe there is truth, but that it's so big none of us can ever comprehend it all; that's why it's important to share what each of us sees of it and compare notes trying to discern which views really are and are not in accord with the truth. Not just anything will do, but there is this sense in which discerning truth is an ongoing communal process. I must say I'm surprised, Moose (you often amaze me, bro:)), that Christ isn't mentioned as important since my understanding of Christian faith is that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son. Jewish preaching is accepted as bona fide because it's scriptural. What about Moslem preaching then? Or preaching from other religion's scriptures? Is the living Christ not an important part of Christian preaching? If so, how? Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Oh I'm such a dork, I'll chime in and say that the buddha said you should never believe because someone else instructs or recommends, but because from your personal experience it is right for you. There are a multitude of different paths because there are a multitude of individuals seeking truth. Anyways, I went to this baptist service once where the dude went on and on and ON about women submitting to men, as men submit to the lord. I had all these questions, ya know...like, does that mean that for the God of the Baptist Christian faith, women are like sub-human? I don't get it. It was such a "sermon for the mysoginists". Anyways, are you talking specifically about Christian sermons? Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Sasperilla, The original question is, "What makes preaching good and bad?". This encompasses all preaching, or at least, it's the way I understood it.It's not about accepting all views. It's about considering and respecting other views.Why would one consider anything other than their own core belief? I can respect other views, but I will not consider them to be my own. Why would anyone? You either believe in something, or you don't. To be laxed, or tolerant about it, is to not have faith in your own belief. Becoming,What about Moslem preaching then?I'm not familiar with Moslem, Jewish, or other Scriptures for other faiths.....but, if it's not from God, I believe it couldn't possible be, "good", preaching.Is the living Christ not an important part of Christian preaching? If so, how?Well, I think He is. But does every sermon have to include anything about Jesus to be considered good preaching. No. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Becoming Posted January 18, 2006 Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 Thanks, Moose. Otter, the original question wasn't specifically Christian preaching. I just happen to know Moose is Christian. Actually, I don't know much about other faith's and preaching either. I just know there's a lot of bad Christian preaching that isn't very deep. Like the sermon Otter heard. The scripture (from Ephesians 5) puts the onus on men to treat their wives like Christ treats the church--willing to die for her in order to care for her. The scriptural picture is actually one of mutual care--quite radical for a day in which men could do whatever they wanted with women. Yet the passage is often preached as though men can "lord it over" women, providing a scriptural sanction for such heinous things as domestic violence, though I'm sure the preached did mean this. For Christians, to act as the Lord means to use our power in service for the sake of another. Many abused women hear that men are the Lord and that it's their duty to love their husbands even though they're beating the life out of them; they're just taking one for the Lord like the Lord who was crucified to show us love. It's crazy thinking, but one not too hard to conclude from some of the preaching we get. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Becoming, I understand where you're coming from. I can't stand it when that goes down either. But I feel MUCH better when I consider the consequences these men will be facing for abusing God's words...... Link to post Share on other sites
penkitten Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 bad preaching is a preacher teaching his congregation something that is not entirely true and then he is held accountable to each soul he lead astray. good preaching is a preacher who teaches his congregation to the best of his ability and when in doubt, he honestly says " i looked it up and this is the best i could come up with so far".... Link to post Share on other sites
Sasperilla Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Moose, This sounds a bit different to your last 'it's all good post'. ]Why would one consider anything other than their own core belief? I can respect other views, but I will not consider them to be my own. It's not about considering them to be your own. It's about being knowldegable instead of just shutting your mind off. Do you think that if you were brought up in Moslem family, in a Moslem country that you would still be the same religion? Or is it not more likely that you would just pick up the faith that everyone else is and not consider the alternatives? Why would anyone? You either believe in something, or you don't. To be laxed, or tolerant about it, is to not have faith in your own belief. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but is the Christian faith not based on tolerance towards other people? Being tolerant is not about not having faith in your own beliefs. It's about accepting that others have different viewpoints to your own. Becoming,I'm not familiar with Moslem, Jewish, or other Scriptures for other faiths.....but, if it's not from God, I believe it couldn't possible be, "good", preaching.Well, I think He is. But does every sermon have to include anything about Jesus to be considered good preaching. No. So if there isn't a God in that religion, it's no good? Did you know that the majority of the world's population are Moslem? Guess they are all wrong then and are wasting their time. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 This sounds a bit different to your last 'it's all good post'. If it is indeed from GOD it is ALL good! If man twists his words to fit his purposes it isn't. Simple as that.It's not about considering them to be your own. It's about being knowldegable instead of just shutting your mind off. Do you think that if you were brought up in Moslem family, in a Moslem country that you would still be the same religion? Or is it not more likely that you would just pick up the faith that everyone else is and not consider the alternatives?That's hard to answer since I wasn't brought up in a Moslem family. But, I was brought up protestant, my Mother hoped I'd stay in that faith, but I didn't. I'm Babtist......No, I don't think I would've embraced Muslim at all thinking about it.Forgive me if I'm wrong, but is the Christian faith not based on tolerance towards other people?Sure. Towards other PEOPLE. But I won't be tolerant of other faith's that grind against mine. There's a set of rules that my faith follows. Veering of that path is unacceptable. Nor, do I care to be knowledgable about them. That's a waste of time and energy in my mind, and would most certainly lead me astray. We've even been warned to stay away from false doctrines.....what can I say? To seek knowledge in other religions isn't following my faith.....So if there isn't a God in that religion, it's no good? Did you know that the majority of the world's population are Moslem? Guess they are all wrong then and are wasting their time.I'm not talking about, "A", God, I'm talking about the one and the only GOD! If He's not in that religion, then yes, in my mind it's no good, and I guess if the Muslims don't have God in their faith, then yes, they are wasting their time..... Link to post Share on other sites
Sasperilla Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Guess that clears all that up then. It's a shame that the majority of the world's population are just wasting their time. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Guess that clears all that up then. It's a shame that the majority of the world's population are just wasting their time. How d'ya figure? You have to somehow magically know that you're on the "right" path in order to NOT be wasting your time? Individuals seek their own path. It's the seeking that is important. Not the path. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Guess that clears all that up then. It's a shame that the majority of the world's population are just wasting their time.I don't know why you'd think that. My posts are unique to me and my situation. Others may do what they may. Sure....I'd love for everyone to believe EXACTLY, the way I do.....but that's just not going to happen..... Link to post Share on other sites
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