Perspective

[FredEire]

14 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Its not assumed. Someone who takes 5 days to respond is not interested. Someone who does not swipe right is not interested. Every single person that has not been from a dating site I have found interesting has NOT been interested, yes interested enough to take whatever kindness I have, take whatever generosity I offer, take whatever advice they can get from me but no there is always someone else they date. I'd say all of that is pretty absolute.

Again my point is not that, its the fact someone who has enjoyed success, dated people he wanted to date cannot ever relate to someone who has never had that opportunity. I do not resent him, I just find the fact he tries to offer fairly baseless generic advice to be irritating, I recall going through these exact thoughts a few years ago right before and after "well so and so is super confident her friends will love you" , nothing of the sort happened and I ended up making small talk to people for the rest of the evening after being looked up and down by her friends.

Once again there is someone else who well she is attractive, confident, has plenty to offer, again its advice with no relevance to me. 

The problem is not that you get rejected. I get rejected plenty, so do millions of others. The problem is your attitude stinks and all your assumptions and generalisations about women and everyone around you will prevent you from meeting anyone you could have something genuine with.

If someone decides they are going to lose before they even play the game and go in with a preconception that everyone is indifferent and bound to reject them guess what? They're not going to have any success. Even the opportunities for success they have they will reject or turn into a failure with their negative actions or lack thereof.

It's not going to fall into your lap, and feeling sorry for yourself is worse than useless. Get pro-active and make some goals for yourself.

Edited March 20 by FredEire

[Wiseman2]

If Inceldom is your comfort zone, that's the only place you're going to feel comfortable 

[ZA Dater]

25 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

If Inceldom is your comfort zone, that's the only place you're going to feel comfortable 

Not through my own choice.

[ZA Dater]

50 minutes ago, FredEire said:

The problem is not that you get rejected. I get rejected plenty, so do millions of others. The problem is your attitude stinks and all your assumptions and generalisations about women and everyone around you will prevent you from meeting anyone you could have something genuine with.

If someone decides they are going to lose before they even play the game and go in with a preconception that everyone is indifferent and bound to reject them guess what? They're not going to have any success. Even the opportunities for success they have they will reject or turn into a failure with their negative actions or lack thereof.

It's not going to fall into your lap, and feeling sorry for yourself is worse than useless. Get pro-active and make some goals for yourself.

You get rejected ok. Cool how much success have you had? Have you had success? I assume you have had instances where you dated people you found attractive? Or was it "well this person is only really one who likes me guess I just need to make do".

I have met enough people I liked, none were interested have you experienced this? 

This is exactly the same issue I am having with said friend, there are millions like me, you cannot ignore that and say " well it's all your fault all of the time".

I have lost before I start because well irrelevant what I do the outcome is the same, I am simply not good enough, not desirable enough not charismatic enough. This isn't pity it's the truth. Instead said friend tries to skirt around this in some half baked attempt to make me feel better. Just be honest. 

There are no goals because the best I can hope for here is exactly what I do not want. That's the beauty of choice, like I can be rejected I can reject what I do not want. And yes it falls into the lap of many, unfortunately for me I know far too many people who have it easy and unfortunately I chose to open up to these people in the hope they'd actually try make me feel better not worse. My mistake. 

[FredEire]

2 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

You get rejected ok. Cool how much success have you had? Have you had success? I assume you have had instances where you dated people you found attractive? Or was it "well this person is only really one who likes me guess I just need to make do".

I have met enough people I liked, none were interested have you experienced this? 

This is exactly the same issue I am having with said friend, there are millions like me, you cannot ignore that and say " well it's all your fault all of the time".

I have lost before I start because well irrelevant what I do the outcome is the same, I am simply not good enough, not desirable enough not charismatic enough. This isn't pity it's the truth. Instead said friend tries to skirt around this in some half baked attempt to make me feel better. Just be honest. 

There are no goals because the best I can hope for here is exactly what I do not want. That's the beauty of choice, like I can be rejected I can reject what I do not want. And yes it falls into the lap of many, unfortunately for me I know far too many people who have it easy and unfortunately I chose to open up to these people in the hope they'd actually try make me feel better not worse. My mistake. 

Yes, I've had a good amount of success. But in my teens and early 20s I had nothing but failure, and had a very similar attitude to you. I played the victim and blamed women and the world around me for my woes.

I think my perspective is a good one because I was an absolute flop in dating and got out of it. I recognise the rigid thinking and victim mentality that you carry, because that used to be me.

It changed when I took accountability, I realised that I could get out of the rut and I was in but it involved doing a lot of work on myself, changing my lifestyle, habits, perspective etc. I changed, and you can too. It only takes the determination to get up off your ass and do things which are uncomfortable and difficult, and drop the learned helplessness.

[FredEire]

27 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Not through my own choice.

It's absolutely, 100% your own choice. You're a person with agency, it's your decision.

Now you can't necessary "decide" to succeed with women, but you can absolutely work on changing your attitude, interpersonal relationships, mental health, lifestyle, diet etc. etc. Success is a byproduct of this.

[Wiseman2]

Expecting right wing supermodels to fall into your lap with zero effort on your part is a choice. 

[basil67]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

assume you have had instances where you dated people you found attractive?

Here we go again with your impossibly high expectations and the woe is me attitude.  Your inability date people who you find attractive is directly related to your impossibly high parameters in who you will accept.  I do understand that you can't lower your standards because what you like is what you like, so you might just have to accept that you will remain single.   

The rest of us date and marry successfully can do so because we find love even if the other doesn't look like a supermodel

As for this person in your life, it sounds like he doesn't listen to you, so telling him how you feel is pointless.  If you don't like him doing what he does just start avoiding him.  That's what the rest of us do with annoying people.  

Edited March 20 by basil67

[Weezy1973]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Not through my own choice.

Yes entirely your own choice. You refuse to do anything differently. You say over and over again online dating doesn’t work for you, and then continually go back to it over and over. Your choice. And when you do find a woman in real life you find attractive you refuse to ask her out. Your choice. You refuse to do anything at all differently and get upset when your results remain the same. Your choice. You continue to live in a place where you say there aren’t any options. Your choice. You refuse to go to therapy to help break the thought patterns that keep you stuck. Your choice. 
 

And until you choose to change any of the above, you will continue to fail. Your choice.

[Foxhall]

Not an outlook Ive ever practiced- but maybe there is merit in the notion that you have to be ruthless,

One could say you have to be ruthless to succeed in the business world- 

could you apply that to dating,

If you stay in a relationship that is not inspiring- for the sake of doing the right thing- could you end up missing out on someone who is more suitable for you 

Would you be better to do the nasty thing rather than the right thing or the noble thing,

to achieve true happiness you might have to break someone else's heart-  and maybe some of us are not prepared to do that, and the reward we get is we end up lonely or the loser ourselves in the long run,

I try not to be bitter- I say Im lucky to have future possibilities you never know whats ahead- but at times I get frustrated and regretful also.

 

 

 

[Alpacalia]

The title of this thread "Perspective." I'm going to give you a new perspective:

 

Edited March 20 by Alpacalia

[ZA Dater]

7 hours ago, basil67 said:

Here we go again with your impossibly high expectations and the woe is me attitude.  Your inability date people who you find attractive is directly related to your impossibly high parameters in who you will accept.  I do understand that you can't lower your standards because what you like is what you like, so you might just have to accept that you will remain single.   

The rest of us date and marry successfully can do so because we find love even if the other doesn't look like a supermodel

As for this person in your life, it sounds like he doesn't listen to you, so telling him how you feel is pointless.  If you don't like him doing what he does just start avoiding him.  That's what the rest of us do with annoying people.  

If impossible high standards means someone tall and slim then I really do not know. Frankly I'd say that's a normal standard.

What annoys me about this guy in this context is how suddenly I am the same as him, clearly I am not. Oh and he struggles with dating, no he doesn't and never has.

I haven't even started on the rest of what I find attractive 😄

[ZA Dater]

8 hours ago, FredEire said:

Yes, I've had a good amount of success. But in my teens and early 20s I had nothing but failure, and had a very similar attitude to you. I played the victim and blamed women and the world around me for my woes.

I think my perspective is a good one because I was an absolute flop in dating and got out of it. I recognise the rigid thinking and victim mentality that you carry, because that used to be me.

It changed when I took accountability, I realised that I could get out of the rut and I was in but it involved doing a lot of work on myself, changing my lifestyle, habits, perspective etc. I changed, and you can too. It only takes the determination to get up off your ass and do things which are uncomfortable and difficult, and drop the learned helplessness.

I am definitely not a victim. It just is what it is. I look how I look and I am what I am and I like what I like. You tell me this, when you meet people, heck I manage to overcome being awkward and shy, the conversation flows and yet no interest, you add this up over say 20 years and imagine how that feels. You cannot say all of that is my fault.

My lifestyle is never going to change on a "well maybe she will like this" or "that might make me more attractive". When you reach where I am it's firmly in that dark world of not giving a ... 

You tell me how you got out of that place? Please don't tell me it was by some sort of "well that will do"

[ZA Dater]

Here is another good example said friend wouldn't date partners with kids but apparently I must, why? 

Again where is the perspective to the advice being given. It's once again one thing good enough for him another good enough for me.

Oh and should I really ask someone on a date who takes 5 days to reply? Is that a good idea?

[basil67]

37 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

If impossible high standards means someone tall and slim then I really do not know. Frankly I'd say that's a normal standard.

What annoys me about this guy in this context is how suddenly I am the same as him, clearly I am not. Oh and he struggles with dating, no he doesn't and never has.

I haven't even started on the rest of what I find attractive 😄

I think you forgot to add 'pretty face' to "tall and slim". But if you have a look around in the real world at all the men who adore their partners who aren't both tall and slim, you would see that tall and slim not a normal standard.   I'm tallish at 175cm, but know plenty of women way shorter than me who've found love.  And I know plenty of women who aren't "slim" who've also found love. And I know plenty of short, round women who've found love.  These people are all doing far better at love and romance than you.  I feel like you only see what you want to see when you speak of "normal standard"

Regarding this guy who gives you bad advice, if he annoys you so much, stop being his friend.  

Edited March 21 by basil67

[ZA Dater]

10 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I think you forgot to add 'pretty face' to "tall and slim". But if you have a look around in the real world at all the men who adore their partners who aren't both tall and slim, you would see that tall and slim not a normal standard.   I'm tallish at 175cm, but know plenty of women way shorter than me who've found love.  And I know plenty of women who aren't "slim" who've also found love. And I know plenty of short, round women who've found love.  These people are all doing far better at love and romance than you.  I feel like you only see what you want to see when you speak of "normal standard"

Regarding this guy who gives you bad advice, if he annoys you so much, stop being his friend.  

As you say I like what I like no getting away from that. Just need to make the best of it whatever I can get I suppose be it a good conversation. I'll just keep inviting this person to events which she seems to like and accept that's the best I can do and once again rue ever believing I had a chance at more than that.

[Acacia98]

11 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Experience vastly different to mine on account of charm, good looks, charisma and plenty to offer. Yet when I mention this he simply tries to pretend his situation and personality is the same as mine, really not sure how that his helpful at all.

I am just properly irritated.

My sense is that you're getting something wrong here. While it may be true that your friend can't relate to you, the reason is not his charm, charisma, confidence and dating success. The reason is his self-centeredness and apparent low capacity for empathy. Those traits would make anyone, charismatic or not, unable to gain deep insight into the experiences and feelings of someone else.

So if I were you, I'd not expect much beyond superficial advice from this particular friend. If you want to stay friends, then value the friendship for what it is (I imagine it has value to you in some way or another). Don't attach much meaning to the superficial dating/relationship advice he may give you. You may also want to cultivate friendships/acquaintanceships with people who are more empathetic. Those are the people with thom you would presumably talk about dating experiences if the subject came up and you felt comfortable.

[Acacia98]

13 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Sorry everyone I am venting, just not in a very good place at the moment, family member is also not well so there is added anxiety.

Sorry about this. Hope you find comfort and your relative gets better. If you want to talk about any of it, we're here.

[FredEire]

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I am definitely not a victim. It just is what it is. I look how I look and I am what I am and I like what I like. You tell me this, when you meet people, heck I manage to overcome being awkward and shy, the conversation flows and yet no interest, you add this up over say 20 years and imagine how that feels. You cannot say all of that is my fault.

My lifestyle is never going to change on a "well maybe she will like this" or "that might make me more attractive". When you reach where I am it's firmly in that dark world of not giving a ... 

You tell me how you got out of that place? Please don't tell me it was by some sort of "well that will do"

Well it is what is is yeah, you're not good at dating by your own admission. But what you refuse to consider is that everybody has the ability to grow and change, but only if they want to and are willing to put in the hard work. This seems to be sorely lacking from you, you feel entitled and hard done by that a beautiful woman won't just fall into your lap.

Another thing you're missing is you don't do these things to get a woman, you do them to become a stronger, happier man. That's what's most important in life, a woman should not rule you or define you, you are debasing yourself and putting women first and yourself second, you need to flip that on its head and this only comes from building real confidence. Women come and go, the only thing that remains is you so you've got to learn to love yourself.

I got out of it by building myself up, going to the gym, learning new skills and most importantly going to lots of social events and meeting lots of people. When I met a girl I fancied I would ask for her number and try to meet up. And guess what sometimes she wasn't interested, but over time as my confidence rose more and more girls I met were interested. So no it wasn't just "well that will do", I discovered what made me more attractive was my willingness to just go for it and disregard my fear and not basing my life around running after women and not putting so much importance on someone on a dating app not texting me back.

[ZA Dater]

4 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Well it is what is is yeah, you're not good at dating by your own admission. But what you refuse to consider is that everybody has the ability to grow and change, but only if they want to and are willing to put in the hard work. This seems to be sorely lacking from you, you feel entitled and hard done by that a beautiful woman won't just fall into your lap.

Another thing you're missing is you don't do these things to get a woman, you do them to become a stronger, happier man. That's what's most important in life, a woman should not rule you or define you, you are debasing yourself and putting women first and yourself second, you need to flip that on its head and this only comes from building real confidence. Women come and go, the only thing that remains is you so you've got to learn to love yourself.

I got out of it by building myself up, going to the gym, learning new skills and most importantly going to lots of social events and meeting lots of people. When I met a girl I fancied I would ask for her number and try to meet up. And guess what sometimes she wasn't interested, but over time as my confidence rose more and more girls I met were interested. So no it wasn't just "well that will do", I discovered what made me more attractive was my willingness to just go for it and disregard my fear and not basing my life around running after women and not putting so much importance on someone on a dating app not texting me back.

At nearly 40 my time is up so yeah I can lament that. Now the only viable choices for me are choices that do not appeal. 

Your advice is very thankfully read abs accepted, I am glad someone managed to succeed where I cannot. I hardly ever meet people I like so I suppose there is that too. 

For me the thing that builds confidence is success. 

Contrary to belief I am pretty happy with the person I am. There is never mutual attraction but I am not unhappy with me the simple fact is I never appeal to people I really like.

That's just something I have to live with. This friend for example has hardly ever had this problem to the extent that yes he isn't always successful but he does get to go out people he finds attractive. That option is not one I have.

[FredEire]

11 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

At nearly 40 my time is up so yeah I can lament that. Now the only viable choices for me are choices that do not appeal. 

Your advice is very thankfully read abs accepted, I am glad someone managed to succeed where I cannot. I hardly ever meet people I like so I suppose there is that too. 

For me the thing that builds confidence is success. 

Contrary to belief I am pretty happy with the person I am. There is never mutual attraction but I am not unhappy with me the simple fact is I never appeal to people I really like.

That's just something I have to live with. This friend for example has hardly ever had this problem to the extent that yes he isn't always successful but he does get to go out people he finds attractive. That option is not one I have.

You are the age you are, there is capacity for self improvement no matter your age, social status etc. I played the victim and thought trying was useless when I was 20, so it can be at any age really.

The fact that you don't meet people is a very obvious place to start, how do you expect to get any results if this is the case?

You also have to accept that it's a numbers game, a large number of times you shoot your shot with a woman you will get rejected, that's just life. Forget all the social media rubbish about being some alpha chad who wins every time, it isn't real. The majority of guys who are successful daters and seeing a number of woman will be trying something with a number of other women and getting shot down, you have to get comfortable with it and realise failure is part of success.

Life isn't so rigid, you're not perfect and you're not going to be. Embrace it, live with it and learn to love yourself. You say that you do but everything you post suggests the opposite.

Edited March 21 by FredEire

[Weezy1973]

58 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

At nearly 40 my time is up so yeah I can lament that. Now the only viable choices for me are choices that do not appeal. 

You’ve complained about your choices since you’ve been on this site which I’m guessing is at least a decade. And quite frankly have had the same issues all your life by your own accounts. This definitely isn’t a “close to 40” thing.

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

When you reach where I am it's firmly in that dark world of not giving a ... 

Except you do or this thread (and the hundreds of others you’ve started) wouldn’t exist.

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, FredEire said:

You are the age you are, there is capacity for self improvement no matter your age, social status etc. I played the victim and thought trying was useless when I was 20, so it can be at any age really.

The fact that you don't meet people is a very obvious place to start, how do you expect to get any results if this is the case?

You also have to accept that it's a numbers game, a large number of times you shoot your shot with a woman you will get rejected, that's just life. Forget all the social media rubbish about being some alpha chad who wins every time, it isn't real. The majority of guys who are successful daters and seeing a number of woman will be trying something with a number of other women and getting shot down, you have to get comfortable with it and realise failure is part of success.

Life isn't so rigid, you're not perfect and you're not going to be. Embrace it, live with it and learn to love yourself. You say that you do but everything you post suggests the opposite.

Maybe you help with this, how do you pretend to others everything is well when it is not? I can't do that anymore so I need some advice.

The successful guys I know tend to be able to date people they want rather than settling for whoever wants to date them.

I have nowhere to meet people and zero confidence either so I just go about my day, sure I'll see someone superficially attractive but I know she wont be single. Every single person around me has a partner

 

[Gaeta]

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

As you say I like what I like no getting away from that

As what you like changed over the years? Nowadays I don't like what I used to like at 20 yo or 30 yo....I especially don't like what I was into at 40 (I'm embarrassed to say I had a bodybuilder phase lol). My bf happens to be very tall but the man I dated before him was 5'8''. Attractiveness comes in different package. You sound like you refuse explore, think outside the box. Have you ever met someone that was not your typical type of woman but after spending a bit of time with her she became beautiful? That's very important. You can date the most attractive woman in the world but if she is not kind and loving you won't see her physical beauty anymore. 

[Gaeta]

6 hours ago, basil67 said:

 I'm tallish at 175cm, but know plenty of women way shorter than me who've found love.  And I know plenty of women who aren't "slim" who've also found love.

Agreed. I am 160 cm and a bit thick and had no problem finding dates. Tall and slim represent about 10% of the population, it's far far from being the standard in women.