Perspective

[FredEire]

20 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

Because women are complexed human beings that are looking for important qualities in a partner OTHER than sexual experience. If you have the qualities she is looking for in a man, if she finds you attractive, she will look pass your sexual inexperience. She will give it time and patience. 

 

True, but if he's totally disinterested in sex even the most patient woman will either assume the problem is them or that he's sexually impotent/asexual and give up, thereby confirming once again his negative feedback loop.

[Gaeta]

@FredEire: I agree with you OP is not interested in sex, or is afraid of it, and this was just another one of his excuses. 

[FredEire]

20 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

@FredEire: I agree with you OP is not interested in sex, or is afraid of it, and this was just another one of his excuses. 

Indeed.

There are cases of people who are either severely physically or socially challenged who will never have an opportunity to have sex even though they want to, though this is obviously not OPs case as he has had relationships and mentioned someone was looking for a hookup with him on Tinder.

I would say for the vast majority of those with a functional sex drive curiosity would get the better of them eventually, barring some sort of religious factor which again isn't OPs case.

Asexuality isn't well understood as it often isn't the total absence of attraction. Some even have celebrity crushes before they realise they are ace. The key thing though is that any of these thoughts are just an idea, and when it comes down to it they find sex unappealing or uninteresting.

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, FredEire said:

It's not a problem you can fix with logic, because your subconscious is drawing you to a certain type of individual who fits your biases and learned behaviours, who is comfortable for your negative outlook and view of the world and yourself. Someone who challenges this is not going to work as it pushes things in a direction which causes distress and cognitive dissonance.

You can't change what you like right now, but through changing your inner world you can change how you see and regard others and develop healthier habits. People who are suited for you will be attracted into your life rather than repelled.

Your assertion that you can logic your way out of this is flawed. You can keep trying the same thing over and over again if you want, but you'll continue being miserable. Best of luck with that if that's the route you decide to take.

 

No thanks! This is once again the same tired  'well you know that not so attractive person she could become very attractive over time' absolutely no thank you. Anyway I will ask, who do you think is suited for me? 

I have a lot of respect for you as a person but this post totally misses the mark completely. If you want an apple, you cannot pretend a orange tastes the same as an apple no matter how hard you try, that is just reality. Likewise someone poorly spoken, apathetic, unemployed, in poor shape is never ever going to pique my interest like someone who has their life together, has great general knowledge, confident, gainfully employed. Yes I have purposefully gone to extremes here. 

 

[ZA Dater]

29 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Indeed.

There are cases of people who are either severely physically or socially challenged who will never have an opportunity to have sex even though they want to, though this is obviously not OPs case as he has had relationships and mentioned someone was looking for a hookup with him on Tinder.

I would say for the vast majority of those with a functional sex drive curiosity would get the better of them eventually, barring some sort of religious factor which again isn't OPs case.

Asexuality isn't well understood as it often isn't the total absence of attraction. Some even have celebrity crushes before they realise they are ace. The key thing though is that any of these thoughts are just an idea, and when it comes down to it they find sex unappealing or uninteresting.

I am going to be blunt here, how interested would you be in having sex with someone physically unattractive? On one had we have one poster telling me if someone valued me enough a lack of experience would not matter, on another we have a poster telling me because I have not experience it will be a problem. Which is it?

Its a choice, there were people I could have slept with, I did not find them attractive in that way, I am not going to get drawn into exactly why but there was no dating prospects with any of them and none of them were compatible for me. I get it guys are apparently supposed to sleep around.

I had one relationship. Just one and we did have sex.

The person looking to hook up has ghosted me which is fine, looks wise she was not what I am into and without knowing anything else about her there is no way I am hooking up either because again there is no common ground. 

 

[Gaeta]

14 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Likewise someone poorly spoken, apathetic, unemployed, in poor shape is never ever going to pique my interest like someone who has their life together, has great general knowledge, confident, gainfully employed. Yes I have purposefully gone to extremes here. 

Again with both extremes. Please stop it.

We are not telling you to date unattractive women. We are telling you find attractiveness in something close to your desired woman. Example: A slim, beautiful woman of 5'4'' could be a good start for you! She would have all of your desired qualities but you'd bent your ridiculous rules on her height. 

Edited April 2 by Gaeta

[ZA Dater]

11 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

Again with both extremes. Please stop it.

We are not telling you to date unattractive women. We are telling you find attractiveness in something close to your desired woman. Example: A slim, beautiful woman of 5'4'' could be a good start for you! She would have all of your desired qualities but you'd bent your ridiculous rules on her height. 

 Of course I would compromise you all seem to think there is no compromise. I'd ultimately want someone similar height to me.

At the end of the day wants and what is attainable are two different things, likewise needs versus wants. 

Edited April 2 by ZA Dater

[FredEire]

24 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I am going to be blunt here, how interested would you be in having sex with someone physically unattractive? On one had we have one poster telling me if someone valued me enough a lack of experience would not matter, on another we have a poster telling me because I have not experience it will be a problem. Which is it?

Its a choice, there were people I could have slept with, I did not find them attractive in that way, I am not going to get drawn into exactly why but there was no dating prospects with any of them and none of them were compatible for me. I get it guys are apparently supposed to sleep around.

I had one relationship. Just one and we did have sex.

The person looking to hook up has ghosted me which is fine, looks wise she was not what I am into and without knowing anything else about her there is no way I am hooking up either because again there is no common ground. 

 

Lol. No, that's not at all what I'm saying. I'm saying that by changing your mindset you will attract a woman who you like who also likes you. Right now you are only attracted to and meeting people who have no interest in you, because that's what your subconscious is seeking.

Again you are missing the intention of advice given to you because you are projecting your own meaning onto it based on your very rigid world view. If you can't accept the possibility that things can flow and change, including yourself, then you're going to be stuck.

I'm not in the camp that thinks you have to date someone you don't like, I agree there's not much point in this. I do reckon however you need to change your relationship with yourself and how you look at the world.

Edited April 2 by FredEire

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

At the end of the day wants and what is attainable are two different things, likewise needs versus wants. 

The way you’ve set things up in your mind definitely makes this true for you.

[Gebidozo]

11 hours ago, basil67 said:

The idea of seduction comes straight from creeps, incel-land and D grade romantic fiction.   

Just unpack it for a moment:  seducing is about a man or woman enticing their date to have sex.....but because it's about luring them (as opposed to discovering a mutual, honest connection) consent then becomes murky.  Thankfully, I have never met a guy who can seduce - the whole premise is creepy.  And it's probably why I find "charm" revolting 🤮  Give me a regular guy with good social skills any day!

I would argue that men who respect women don't engage in charm and seduction

Totally agree.

Seduction is cheap and phony, it’s basically acting, lying, manipulating, and exploiting weakpoints. 

Attractive men don’t need to seduce, what they do is honestly present themselves, find and create real connection, and display romantic interest.

[Gebidozo]

7 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

You also need to understand the close friends I have, for them women are about sex and nothing else, personality, that does not matter, its about getting them to bed and who has bedded the hottest one, which is very childish, being around this for years I really never bought into it, well I'd have liked to have had sex too but I quickly realized I do not have their look, their fun factor so was never going to be in the running.

You live in some sort of a cartoony, grotesque world populated by charming, yet evil seducers, unattainable tall beauties, scary short plump women with children, and the poor incelish you, such a nice guy who can’t get those beauties because they always fall for those bad handsome guys with “skills”.

You can’t begin to imagine how silly and ridiculous your ideas are, it’s like all you know about men and women is what you’ve learned as a little kid from some “wise” 8th grader whose sexual and romantic experience amounted to masturbating to Playboy photos.

LS people are being incredibly patient with you, yet you refuse to listen, you’re like a zombie in a cult, repeating the same meaningless mantras over and over again. What you need aren’t words, but a normal woman, some short, plump, sexy lady with kids, who’s into overgrown incels, maybe just being kinky that way. She would screw your incel mentality out of you, purge you from your false views. 

Edited April 2 by Gebidozo

[ZA Dater]

3 hours ago, FredEire said:

Lol. No, that's not at all what I'm saying. I'm saying that by changing your mindset you will attract a woman who you like who also likes you. Right now you are only attracted to and meeting people who have no interest in you, because that's what your subconscious is seeking.

Again you are missing the intention of advice given to you because you are projecting your own meaning onto it based on your very rigid world view. If you can't accept the possibility that things can flow and change, including yourself, then you're going to be stuck.

I'm not in the camp that thinks you have to date someone you don't like, I agree there's not much point in this. I do reckon however you need to change your relationship with yourself and how you look at the world.

At least we partly agree. What part of my mindset should I change? The one where someone who is attractive had better choices than me? 

I am attracted to people who wow me in some way like this latest interest. My subconscious does not factor into this at all, when someone engages and communicates and hours fly by that for me is attraction. Dating site's have illustrated how attraction seems to work for me.

[FredEire]

36 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

At least we partly agree. What part of my mindset should I change? The one where someone who is attractive had better choices than me? 

I am attracted to people who wow me in some way like this latest interest. My subconscious does not factor into this at all, when someone engages and communicates and hours fly by that for me is attraction. Dating site's have illustrated how attraction seems to work for me.

How do you know your subconscious doesn't factor into it? You're not aware of it, that's why it's subconscious.

That wow moment that sometimes comes is all about your subconscious. Why do you consider a girl gorgeous, interesting, good chemistry etc etc? It's because something about her appeals to how you are wired, what you feel you need and you long for in a relationship, much of which comes from patterns experienced in childhood.

You often don't seem to see others points of view but believe it or not you could take a woman you think is the full package, everything you are looking for, real "wow" material and introduce her to another man, and he will think she's unattractive and dull.

The point myself and I think others are making is that you have to consider why she is giving you that wow moment, and part of it seems to be that she is not romantically interested in you, as it seems to be a bit of a pattern with women you meet and taking a liking to. What you can change is investigate why that is happening, and by understanding the factors that lead to this tendency you can process it and it may not have such a negative impact on you.

When I was younger and of a similar mindset to yourself I can't tell you how many times a girl I found pretty would start showing interest in me and suddenly her eyebrows were too close together, she had ugly teeth etc. I realise that's a bit different to your case but it was my coping mechanism, I was really really scared someone might like me and I'd end up getting into something with them, it was my convenient way to avoid it because I wasn't emotionally ready for it at the time.

Edited April 2 by FredEire

[Weezy1973]

34 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

What part of my mindset should I change? The one where someone who is attractive had better choices than me? 

There’s always going to be more attractive. And less attractive. So the choices aren’t “better” as they’re not interested in you. You’re only going to date women that are interest in dating you. The women that aren’t interested aren’t “better” because they’re not an option for you. So yes, that’s part of the mindset you have to change.

[ZA Dater]

6 minutes ago, FredEire said:

How do you know your subconscious doesn't factor into it? You're not aware of it, that's why it's subconscious.

That wow moment that sometimes comes is all about your subconscious. Why do you consider a girl gorgeous, interesting, good chemistry etc etc? It's because something about her appeals to how you are wired, what you feel you need and you long for in a relationship, much of which comes from patterns experienced in childhood.

You often don't seem to see others points of view but believe it or not you could take a woman you think is the full package, everything you are looking for, real "wow" material and introduce her to another man, and he will think she's unattractive and dull.

The point myself and I think others are making is that you have to consider why she is giving you that wow moment, and part of it seems to be that she is not romantically interested in you, as it seems to be a bit of a pattern with women you meet and taking a liking to. What you can change is investigate why that is happening, and by understanding the factors that lead to this tendency you can process it and it may not have such a negative impact on you.

When I was younger and of a similar mindset to yourself I can't tell you how many times a girl I found pretty would start showing interest in me and suddenly her eyebrows were too close together, she had ugly teeth etc. I realise that's a bit different to your case but it was my coping mechanism, I was really really scared someone might like me and I'd end up getting into something with them, it was my convenient way to avoid it because I wasn't emotionally ready for it at the time.

Wow for me is a combination of things, intellect, intelligence, confidence, well spoken, friendly, warm personality, ambitious, able to communicate well, pretty face, slim physique. There is not one singular thing.

I am not scared of mutual attraction I just know it's fairly unlikely when I compare myself to others.

[FredEire]

9 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

There’s always going to be more attractive. And less attractive. So the choices aren’t “better” as they’re not interested in you. You’re only going to date women that are interest in dating you. The women that aren’t interested aren’t “better” because they’re not an option for you. So yes, that’s part of the mindset you have to change.

I have a little bit in common with OP in that I have got that "wow" moment for girls who in the end didn't treat me very well or showed very little regard for my feelings.

I've dated girls who were physically as attractive or more attractive than these girls (in my opinion), and were much kinder and more invested in me, but didn't produce the same reaction.

Why? My best guess is because they appealed to hardwired needs arising from patterns in my relationship with my mother, and the tendency to want to fill in that emotional gap.

So now I'm exploring this in therapy, in order to better understand how my emotional needs are wired and therefore be better able to change my approaches and attitudes and dating and attract better people into my life.

[ZA Dater]

7 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

There’s always going to be more attractive. And less attractive. So the choices aren’t “better” as they’re not interested in you. You’re only going to date women that are interest in dating you. The women that aren’t interested aren’t “better” because they’re not an option for you. So yes, that’s part of the mindset you have to change.

Which on short is why I am not particularly falling over my feet to date. The options I have are wholly unappealing in every single way.

I ask you this, take someone to breakfast who you enjoy spending time with and provides intellectual stimulation versus going to breakfast with someone who will sleep with you but provides no intellectual stimulation at all. Which one are you choosing?

[FredEire]

2 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Wow for me is a combination of things, intellect, intelligence, confidence, well spoken, friendly, warm personality, ambitious, able to communicate well, pretty face, slim physique. There is not one singular thing.

I am not scared of mutual attraction I just know it's fairly unlikely when I compare myself to others.

But that is all completely or partly subjective.

You could consider a girl intelligent and confident, another man could consider her a dull bore who likes the sound of her own voice.

Even with physical attributes like slim you could like the look of a woman's figure, another man may think she's unpleasantly skinny.

Again it all comes down to how you grew up and your unique wants and expectations.

[ZA Dater]

Just now, FredEire said:

But that is all completely or partly subjective.

You could consider a girl intelligent and confident, another man could consider her a dull bore who likes the sound of her own voice.

Even with physical attributes like slim you could like the look of a woman's figure, another man may think she's unpleasantly skinny.

Again it all comes down to how you grew up and your unique wants and expectations.

For me it's based on people I have met nothing more than that. So I am going to ask latest interest to go to breakfast with me, apparently I am good company in her eyes but that's just someone being polite.

Other options, none really tired of dating sites.

[Weezy1973]

7 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Which on short is why I am not particularly falling over my feet to date. The options I have are wholly unappealing in every single way.

Groucho Marx Syndrome: “I wouldn’t join a club that would have me for a member.” 
 

 

8 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I ask you this, take someone to breakfast who you enjoy spending time with and provides intellectual stimulation versus going to breakfast with someone who will sleep with you but provides no intellectual stimulation at all. Which one are you choosing?

Depends if I’m looking for sex or a conversation. 

[FredEire]

10 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

For me it's based on people I have met nothing more than that. So I am going to ask latest interest to go to breakfast with me, apparently I am good company in her eyes but that's just someone being polite.

Other options, none really tired of dating sites.

That's completely avoiding the point I made. All the women you meet have certain qualities which make them attractive or otherwise to you, other men may different opinions and that's based on your subjective opinion.

There is no objective "wow" or golden ratio of dating. Yes some people may have physical attributes which make them easier on the eye to more people but that's about it. In terms of continued interactions and personality everybody is going to have their own unique take.

Edited April 2 by FredEire

[ZA Dater]

4 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Depends if I’m looking for sex or a conversation. 

I'd want both not one or the other... ideally. 

[ZA Dater]

2 minutes ago, FredEire said:

That's completely avoiding the point I made. All the women you meet have certain qualities which make them attractive or otherwise to you, other men may different opinions and that's based on your subjective opinion.

There is no objective "wow" or golden ratio of dating. Yes some people may have physical attributes which make them easier on the eye to more people but that's about it. In terms of continued interactions and personality everybody is going to have their own unique take.

True and what I like is not going to change but some people are also universally attractive. Sure, agreed but equate that to my lack of success and it's even worse actually because it indicates even less interest. 

Inevitably I am always competing with someone. I can go with a degree of vulnerability but what does that actually accomplish? Someone with options will evaluate the one they like most and truthfully am I really a good option?

[Weezy1973]

22 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I'd want both not one or the other... ideally. 

Sure, if you’re looking for a relationship. But you were asking about breakfast.

[basil67]

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

 Of course I would compromise you all seem to think there is no compromise. I'd ultimately want someone similar height to me.

At the end of the day wants and what is attainable are two different things, likewise needs versus wants. 

We all think there is no compromise because you give your descriptions in a very uncompromising way.   If you'd date a 5'4 woman, why did you even bring height into the equation of what you're looking for in a woman?