Perspective

[ZA Dater]

21 minutes ago, FredEire said:

My impression is that your standards are fluid and change by the minute. One moment you want a very rigid physical standard, the next you don't and only care about personality.

My suspicion is you tailor this to whoever you are talking to, if she's interested she strikes out on X requirement, if she not interested she is perfect and everything you could ask for in a woman.

The end result is that nobody every lives up to your standards and you don't have to face an uncomfortable situation where someone you like might like you back.

Not at all. There has to be a combination of physical and intellectual attraction, trust me nobody is interested so that that is an irrelevant assumption and yes all I am actually looking for is mutual attraction, a lack of that is why I struggle to see the point of dating if that is not present.

[ZA Dater]

2 minutes ago, FredEire said:

But you do exactly this, all the time.

You are full of contradictions.

That is the way I live, granted I am never expecting to ever be in the situation where I have mutual attraction because based on this I am apparently after "prime pickings" and well I suppos these people have endless choice and there is endless competition and sure maybe its not a good idea for me to even attempt to compete but also why not, apart from the fact the good things I have are generally deemed to be low value in a relationship but high value in a friendship.

[BaileyB]

8 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I am VERY interested in dating her for a whole variety of reasons, I however suspect she has limited to zero interest in dating me hence her taking days to respond.

If it’s taking her days to respond, then she is not interested and you need to let the idea go. You took your shot, and she isn’t interested. This is life.

If you didn’t think she was interested, it was probably unwise to message her because no doubt, her lack of response will be used as further proof of your theory that you are somehow unworthy and unsuccessful at dating. That’s my point, it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy and the bitterness grow even though that’s the inevitable result when you chose to pursue a woman who is not interested in dating you. No surprise there.

 

Edited April 4, 2024 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

in life you need to aspire to something else what is the point really?

The women you want to date can’t say the same thing though, and that is the inherent problem here. You want to aspire to something great but that woman would have to settle for a forty year old virgin with no self confidence, poor social/relationship skills, and a very poor attitude. That’s not a recipe for success in dating. 

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

Prime pickings are all you talk about!

Case in point. 
 

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Well that (dating someone “in your league”) has zero appeal to me at all, that being the case I'd rather just have nothing.

Prime picking and aspirational dating - or nothing. 

All or bust. 

Edited April 4, 2024 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

45 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

That is the way I live, granted I am never expecting to ever be in the situation where I have mutual attraction because based on this I am apparently after "prime pickings" and well I suppos these people have endless choice and there is endless competition and sure maybe its not a good idea for me to even attempt to compete but also why not, apart from the fact the good things I have are generally deemed to be low value in a relationship but high value in a friendship.

Same old self defeating talk - around and around… and around we go.

[Gaeta]

11 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Attraction might happen like that for you but it does not happen that way for me

What 'attraction' feels like to you?

[ZA Dater]

45 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Case in point. 
 

Prime picking and aspirational dating - or nothing. 

All or bust. 

Agree, exactly that. I know what I like.

[ZA Dater]

51 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

The women you want to date can’t say the same thing though, and that is the inherent problem here. You want to aspire to something great but that woman would have to settle for a forty year old virgin with no self confidence, poor social/relationship skills, and a very poor attitude. That’s not a recipe for success in dating. 

Based on this I may as well not bother at all. I thought inexperience was irrelevant, it either is or it isn't.

Despite this I am not giving up.

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, BaileyB said:

If it’s taking her days to respond, then she is not interested and you need to let the idea go. You took your shot, and she isn’t interested. This is life.

If you didn’t think she was interested, it was probably unwise to message her because no doubt, her lack of response will be used as further proof of your theory that you are somehow unworthy and unsuccessful at dating. That’s my point, it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy and the bitterness grow even though that’s the inevitable result when you chose to pursue a woman who is not interested in dating you. No surprise there.

 

You right nobody is ever interested lol barring people I have no interest in spending any degree of time with.

Granted it did take her 5 days to respond to the last msg so it's early days.

No response is no interest so yea it would be a case of not good enough, there is no other way to frame that. 

[FredEire]

12 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Agree, exactly that. I know what I like.

Except you have never been physical with a woman, so your knowledge is severely limited.

You know what fantasy is in your head that you think you like.

Edited April 4, 2024 by FredEire

[ZA Dater]

2 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Except you have never been physical with a woman, so your knowledge is severely limited.

You know what fantasy is in your head that you think you like.

I have been physical with my ex gf. For me dating is more than sex.

[BaileyB]

8 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Except you have never been physical with a woman, so your knowledge is severely limited.

You know what fantasy is in your head that you think you like.

And that fantasy does not see women as human beings.

The fantasy relates primarily to physical appearance and ultimately, in this fantasy there would be a woman who builds confidence, soothes previous hurts, creates worth where it is lacking, and projects the image to the world  that ZA would very much like to project. That’s a lot to ask of any relationship partner…

Edited April 4, 2024 by BaileyB

[FredEire]

1 minute ago, BaileyB said:

And that fantasy does not see women as human beings.

The fantasy relates primarily to physical appearance and ultimately, in this fantasy there would be a woman who builds confidence, soothes previous hurts, creates worth where there is none, and projects the image to the world  that ZA would very much like to project. That’s a lot to ask of any relationship partner…

Yes, and it doesn't take into account that she will have her own hurts and shortcomings as well, because she's a human being.

The only one who can heal ZA Dater is ZA Dater, with the help of a therapist.

[BaileyB]

20 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Based on this I may as well not bother at all. I thought inexperience was irrelevant, it either is or it isn't.

For the right person, it is not.

But there needs to be other things that would interest someone enough to be willing to overlook the fact that you have little relationship experience. As has been said above, your attitude is more than enough to dissuade someone. Add to that the fact that you will only date those who are beautiful, slim, and have only the best social skills - let’s be realistic, you are looking for the rare bird who has her choice of men but says, I like this shy, inexperienced, socially awkward man. The likelihood of that is probably the same as the likelihood that you will someday decide a short, overweight, socially awkward woman is the one for you… As you have said, not going to happen. You can’t fault a woman for not doing what you yourself refuse to do - 

[ZA Dater]

3 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Yes, and it doesn't take into account that she will have her own hurts and shortcomings as well, because she's a human being.

The only one who can heal ZA Dater is ZA Dater, with the help of a therapist.

You forget I actually like to support people, I have been through some horrendous experiences in life so I have a great degree of empathy. I am a pretty good shoulder to cry on apparently.

As for therapists they were of no use before and I won't be going down that road again.

[ZA Dater]

1 minute ago, BaileyB said:

For the right person, it is not.

But there needs to be other things that would interest someone enough to be willing to overlook the fact that you have little relationship experience. As has been said above, your attitude is more than enough to dissuade someone. Add to that the fact that you will only date those who are beautiful, slim, and have only the best social skills - let’s be realistic, you are looking for the rare bird who has her choice of men but says, I like this shy, inexperienced, socially awkward man. The likelihood of that is probably the same as the likelihood that you will someday decide a short, overweight, socially awkward woman is the one for you… As you have said, not going to happen. You can’t fault a woman for not doing what you yourself refuse to do - 

Again, I am quite accepting I may never ever find mutual attraction, not a nice thought but it is what it is. Glad you acknowledge that what I am looking for is rare.

There is enough good about me to outweigh the not so good, that is true of most people. I just simply refuse to settle, it's really that simple.

 

[FredEire]

1 minute ago, ZA Dater said:

You forget I actually like to support people, I have been through some horrendous experiences in life so I have a great degree of empathy. I am a pretty good shoulder to cry on apparently.

As for therapists they were of no use before and I won't be going down that road again.

It's not about a shoulder to cry on it's that a relationship won't fix anything, you will be the same guy with the same insecurities and it won't make you any happier unless you are already happy in yourself. You will have to support your partner but you won't be able to because at the moment you can't even support yourself. Until you can do that you're never going to have the kind of relationship you desire.

They were of now use I expect because you expected to march in and them to spoon-feed you a magic solution, rather than slowly working through your issues together.

[ZA Dater]

12 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

And that fantasy does not see women as human beings.

The fantasy relates primarily to physical appearance and ultimately, in this fantasy there would be a woman who builds confidence, soothes previous hurts, creates worth where it is lacking, and projects the image to the world  that ZA would very much like to project. That’s a lot to ask of any relationship partner…

And yet I have met these people so again they do exist so not sure where the fantasy part comes in. No it does not relate primarily to physical appearance either.

[BaileyB]

5 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Yes, and it doesn't take into account that she will have her own hurts and shortcomings as well, because she's a human being.

Of course, she will not look beautiful and her breath will smell badly in the morning. She will be grumpy at the end of a long day or because she’s frustrated and tired of listening to this constant overthinking and analysis. She will not want to do the same things that he wants to do, she will want to spend too much time with her girlfriends, or she will be messy and not clean up after herself at home. There are any number of frustrations and “disappointments” in a relationship and no doubt, ZA will spend his time wondering if he is still attracted to the woman and if this is the right relationship for him all the time. The narrative will just change from “is this the right person for me” to “do I really want to stay in this relationship?”

[BaileyB]

2 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Glad you acknowledge that what I am looking for is rare.

That’s not a compliment. 

Ugh, how did I get drawn into this circular discussion - again!! 🤣

Edited April 4, 2024 by BaileyB

[ZA Dater]

1 minute ago, FredEire said:

It's not about a shoulder to cry on it's that a relationship won't fix anything, you will be the same guy with the same insecurities and it won't make you any happier unless you are already happy in yourself. You will have to support your partner but you won't be able to because at the moment you can't even support yourself. Until you can do that you're never going to have the kind of relationship you desire.

They were of now use I expect because you expected to march in and them to spoon-feed you a magic solution, rather than slowly working through your issues together.

With respect you experience with therapy is clearly different to mine, there are no issues to work though barring a fundamental lack of attraction.

[FredEire]

2 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Of course, she will not look beautiful and her breath will smell badly in the morning. She will be grumpy at the end of a long day or because she’s frustrated and tired of listening to this constant overthinking and analysis. She will not want to do the same things that he wants to do, she will want to spend too much time with her girlfriends, or she will be messy and not clean up after herself at home. There are any number of frustrations and “disappointments” in a relationship and no doubt, ZA will spend his time wondering if he is still attracted to the woman and if this is the right relationship for him all the time. The narrative will just change from “is this the right person for me” to “do I really want to stay in this relationship?”

Yes, because even dating Jessica Biel would be a disappointment when he realises his slim, Hollywood actress girlfriend has morning breath, is in a bad mood or is upset with him, and he won't be able to affectively communicate to get around the issues.

The reality of having this is far less appealing than staying in the comfort of singledom imagining a sexy perfect goddess who will fix all his confidence issues.

[ZA Dater]

4 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Of course, she will not look beautiful and her breath will smell badly in the morning. She will be grumpy at the end of a long day or because she’s frustrated and tired of listening to this constant overthinking and analysis. She will not want to do the same things that he wants to do, she will want to spend too much time with her girlfriends, or she will be messy and not clean up after herself at home. There are any number of frustrations and “disappointments” in a relationship and no doubt, ZA will spend his time wondering if he is still attracted to the woman and if this is the right relationship for him all the time. The narrative will just change from “is this the right person for me” to “do I really want to stay in this relationship?”

I was not that physically attracted to my ex, I was however very attracted to her personality which was warm and conversation just flowed, I enjoyed spending time with her and it was good to share the bad and good parts of life.

[FredEire]

2 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

With respect you experience with therapy is clearly different to mine, there are no issues to work though barring a fundamental lack of attraction.

You must be joking.

You are riddled with self-doubt, insecurity, a chronic overthinker, lack confidence, lack at least some interpersonal skills, the list goes on.

You have demonstrated all of the above quite clearly just in this thread.