Perspective

[ZA Dater]

1 minute ago, FredEire said:

Yes, because even dating Jessica Biel would be a disappointment when he realises his slim, Hollywood actress girlfriend has morning breath, is in a bad mood or is upset with him, and he won't be able to affectively communicate to get around the issues.

The reality of having this is far less appealing than staying in the comfort of singledom imagining a sexy perfect goddess who will fix all his confidence issues.

I was in a relationship for 8 months and I experienced most of that. Guess what having a partner did make me more confident 

[ZA Dater]

Just now, FredEire said:

You must be joking.

You are riddled with self-doubt, insecurity, a chronic overthinker, lack confidence, lack at least some interpersonal skills, the list goes on.

You have demonstrated all of the above quite clearly just in this thread.

Thanks for this. I'll just throw in the towel.

[FredEire]

Just now, ZA Dater said:

I was in a relationship for 8 months and I experienced most of that. Guess what having a partner did make me more confident 

Not really, because a confidence gained through another person is not genuine confidence it's a charade. If it all changes as soon as they leave what you think of yourself fundamentally hasn't changed.

[FredEire]

1 minute ago, ZA Dater said:

Thanks for this. I'll just throw in the towel.

Do it if you want, nobody owes you anything other than yourself.

[Gaeta]

50 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

What 'attraction' feels like to you?

I would really like you answer this. You seem to have a different definition of what attraction is. 

[BaileyB]

14 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I was not that physically attracted to my ex, I was however very attracted to her personality which was warm and conversation just flowed, I enjoyed spending time with her and it was good to share the bad and good parts of life.

That’s called friendship. 

Or, at the very least, the infatuation stage of a budding romantic relationship. That said, it’s very clear that your “lack of attraction” ended the progression of this relationship to the stage that we are talking about - the reality of being in a long term relationship with another person. If I’m remembering correctly and you can correct me if I’m wrong, you held back (because you were not sure that you were attracted to the woman, you were waiting to see if it would develop and trying to talk yourself into feeling something that you didn’t think you felt. Eventually, she got tired of the fact that you were dragging your heels and the relationship was not progressing… and when the first sign of conflict arose - the relationship ended… in large part because as Fred said, you did not have the communication skills to negotiate the challenge. You fell back on - “I don’t know if I’m attracted to the woman…” and did not assert yourself. She very rightly said, this is not what I want for my life. 

Edited April 4, 2024 by BaileyB

[ZA Dater]

6 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Do it if you want, nobody owes you anything other than yourself.

I owe myself nothing, the cookie crumbles differently for everyone, some are more fortunate than others, that's just life, I pretty much gave up in this discussion its been confirmed what I thought in terms of my own value.

[ZA Dater]

2 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

That’s called friendship. 

Or, at the very least, the infatuation stage of a budding romantic relationship. That said, it’s very clear that you “lack of attraction” ended the progression of this relationship to the stage that we are talking about - the stage when she isn’t wonderfully supportive and enjoyable to spend time with. If I’m remembering correctly and you can correct me if I’m wrong, when the first sign of conflict arose - the relationship ended… in large part because as Fred said, you did not have the communication skills to negotiate the challenge. You fell back on - “I don’t know if I’m attracted to the woman…” and did not assert yourself. She very rightly said, this is not what I want for my life. 

Not true she simply just dumped me, no reason specified barring something trite about being official. Ultimately I got lucky I was never good enough for her. Everything was good until that day and yet I saw her two weeks ago for lunch it was very nice too. She has a great bf and is happy, I'll only ever wish her the best and thank her for allowing me a little time if not feeling so lonely.

[ZA Dater]

10 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

I would really like you answer this. You seem to have a different definition of what attraction is. 

The want to spend lots of time with a particular person. An intellectual connection, common interests, shared life views. Physical attraction too.

[FredEire]

9 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I owe myself nothing, the cookie crumbles differently for everyone, some are more fortunate than others, that's just life, I pretty much gave up in this discussion its been confirmed what I thought in terms of my own value.

At the end of the day we come into this world alone and we leave it alone, we are all we really have to rely on. You have to learn to help yourself and love yourself or you're never going to be in a good place.

[OKtoday]

11 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Again, I am quite accepting I may never ever find mutual attraction, not a nice thought but it is what it is. Glad you acknowledge that what I am looking for is rare.

There is enough good about me to outweigh the not so good, that is true of most people. I just simply refuse to settle, it's really that simple.

 

I see it as you refuse to ask anyone out on a “real” date.

Does that ever happen??

Will we ever see that here?

All these reasons you give yourself provide the perfect, last minute save to keep you in your comfort zone. It’s a nice, safe place to be. 

I don’t remember you ever making it known that you were interested in anyone without camouflaging it as a friendship, networking get-together.

This is one thing I’d see as a victory for you.

[ZA Dater]

8 minutes ago, OKtoday said:

I see it as you refuse to ask anyone out on a “real” date.

Does that ever happen??

Will we ever see that here?

All these reasons you give yourself provide the perfect, last minute save to keep you in your comfort zone. It’s a nice, safe place to be. 

I don’t remember you ever making it known that you were interested in anyone without camouflaging it as a friendship, networking get-together.

This is one thing I’d see as a victory for you.

Good point. I've been told I absolutely cannot date the people I want so why would I make an idiot of myself asking someone out and being rejected? I go the friend route in the hope I can build on that in time, I believe I have enough good qualities to be a good friend.

I have asked people, in 39 years not one has said yes who was not from a dating site. 

 

[Gaeta]

27 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

The want to spend lots of time with a particular person. An intellectual connection, common interests, shared life views. Physical attraction too.

You write off women when they don't fall within your parameters of beauty. So no, your attraction does not initially fall on your intellectual connection and common interest. I was talking about that initial attraction. Is there anything sexual in your initial attraction? 

[ZA Dater]

5 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

You write off women when they don't fall within your parameters of beauty. So no, your attraction does not initially fall on your intellectual connection and common interest. I was talking about that initial attraction. Is there anything sexual in your initial attraction? 

Yes there is but again it's a case of "well she ain't ever going to be interested" and move on.

[Gaeta]

20 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Yes there is but again it's a case of "well she ain't ever going to be interested" and move on.

That is not part of my question. I am interested in what you consider attraction. Have you ever experienced lust?

[Alpacalia]

OMG. This thread is the only thing running on LS these days. Congrats OP. 😄

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

I've been told I absolutely cannot date the people I want so why would I make an idiot of myself asking someone out and being rejected?

You date someone who is interested in dating you and stop chasing rainbows.

I’ve said this before but I will say it again, that is is like saying “I want to be a doctor but I’m trained to be a plumber.” When people point out that you will never be hired as a physician - you said, but I want to aspire to something more and you stomp your feet and complain about how unfair it is that you can’t be a physician. There is no logic in that. For a person who overthinks everything, you must see accept there is no logic in this - and this, no success or happiness to be found.

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

I go the friend route in the hope I can build on that in time, I believe I have enough good qualities to be a good friend.

You may, but you camouflage your true intentions by playing the role of “friend,” which inevitably fails because either you take your shot and get your heart broken and/or she realizes that your intentions are not sincere/you have an agenda/she tired of her orbiter and/or finds someone she is truly interested in dating... You have tried and failed countless times to turn “friendship” into romantic interest with women who are not romantically interested in you… that leads to a discussion about how you are not good enough and thus, you need to content yourself with the opportunity to bask in her presence and enjoy whatever attention she sends your way… which is not truly what you want and thus, brings unhappiness and creates bitterness when it inevitably fails! 

Edited April 4, 2024 by BaileyB

[FredEire]

27 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

You date someone who is interested in dating you and stop chasing rainbows.

I’ve said this before but I will say it again, that is is like saying “I want to be a doctor but I’m trained to be a plumber.” When people point out that you will never be hired as a physician - you said, but I want to aspire to something more and you stomp your feet and complain about how unfair it is that you can’t be a physician. There is no logic in that. For a person who overthinks everything, you must see accept there is no logic in this - and this, no success or happiness to be found.

Yes exactly.

I don't exactly agree with others that you need to "date within your league". At the moment I think you shouldn't date at all because anyone who is going to accept someone so down on themselves is not going to be a great person to date themselves.

I have seen many guys who are physically way out of the league of the women they are dating. They can do this because they're a boss who's really got their s*** together and have a lot to offer apart from their average looks.

[BaileyB]

16 minutes ago, FredEire said:

At the moment I think you shouldn't date at all because anyone who is going to accept someone so down on themselves is not going to be a great person to date themselves.

Agree.

17 minutes ago, FredEire said:

I have seen many guys who are physically way out of the league of the women they are dating. They can do this because they're a boss who's really got their s*** together and have a lot to offer apart from their average looks.

Absolutely. When that happens, it’s because that individual brings something else to the table… Sometimes, to be honest,  that is money. But more often than not, it’s personality. We have long said to ZA, a man can be of average physical appearance but have a very engaging personality, they are confident and self assured, they can be adventurous/fun, they can have a good sense of humour, or they bc a be very kind and thoughtful and still get the girl!! There are tons of examples in life - and it goes both ways. I know couples where the man is super handsome, kind, successful - and he is married to a woman of average physical appearance because there was something else that attracted him…

[Gebidozo]

15 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Attraction might happen like that for you but it does not happen that way for me. My point with the 6 ladies is my criteria cannot so rigid if I can find that number of people relatively easily.

What you describe is lust not attraction in my opinion. 

Again everyone has a different experience here.

Your opinion is wrong.

What I describe is attraction. What you describe is some prepubescent boy’s silly, unrealistic fantasies.

You are unbelievably rigid and stubborn. Everyone tells you the same thing, why do you refuse to listen and learn?

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, FredEire said:

I don't exactly agree with others that you need to "date within your league"…

I have seen many guys who are physically way out of the league of the women they are dating.

Yes it happens (just Google Pete Davidson’s girlfriends) but it is by far the exception to the rule. I do think there is often an illusion of average looking guys being with attractive women but that more has to do with the difference in energy (time, effort, money etc) that women spend on their appearance vs men. 
 

There is a lot of evidence showing that folks in long term relationships on average are about equal in physical attractiveness. And as has been said, when there are exceptions, there are usually really good reasons for those. As the OP has stated many times, he’s looking for a woman that is more physically attractive than himself but he’s acknowledged he doesn’t offer any of those other intangibles. Such is life. 

[Gebidozo]

15 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Firstly I don't go to bars and when I did, I didn't fit in very well. It also became very apparent the "attractive" people there were not interested in a non drinker non fun guy. Sure I could have wanted to kiss them but why think that when it's clear it's not possible.

That’s not the point…

*deep sigh*

Dude… It doesn’t have to be a bar. Are you trolling? It’s clear that I used the bar as an example. Why are you hanging onto those details when it’s clear that you have a huge, glaring problem? You don’t consider yourself attractive. There is no attractive woman in the world that would consider attractive a guy who doesn’t consider himself attractive. It just doesn’t work this way.

You present yourself as a dull, asexual, self-denigrating being with middle school level, cartoony, adolescent views of women and ridiculous demands to them. No attractive women is ever going to like you if you continue presenting yourself like that. You obviously don’t love yourself at all.

[Gebidozo]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I go the friend route in the hope I can build on that in time, I believe I have enough good qualities to be a good friend.

This is pathetic and creepy.

You do realize that it’s despicable to pretend to be a woman’s friend while cherishing the hope of getting into her pants some day?

There is no such thing as “building on friendship”. The most you can hope for is patiently wait until the woman you pretend to be a friend of will be in a vulnerable state of mind (lonely, hopelessly in love, post-breakup, etc.), and will let you have sex with her, using you as a tool to dull her pain. 

Do you really want such a thing to happen?

[Gaeta]

If a woman puts you in the friendzone, you are never getting out of there. If she puts you there in the first place it's because you ignite nothing in her. Then you trying to get out of that friendzone would be highly creepy to her. 

Women psychology 101.