Perspective

[ZA Dater]

8 hours ago, basil67 said:

@ZA Dater you started this thread over two months ago.  Have you seen this woman since then?   If so, do the two of you discuss your personal lives and personal thoughts, or is it just business and impersonal topics such as politics and sports?

Is she single?

No I have not seen her because she is busy, we do text from time to time (replies are generally slow but not short replies) and actually most of what we text about is personal life, she has been on crutches for a while due to a sport injury.

She was single at the end of last year, whether she still is I have no idea. 

Honestly I am mostly at the point of giving up on having any chance to date her.

[ZA Dater]

10 hours ago, BaileyB said:

Further to basil’s comment, how athletic are you ZA? What team sports do you play? Are you a runner? Triathlete? Do you lift weights?

I do quite a bit of cycling and swimming,  some running, weights each day so yes I'd say I am fairly athletic. Athletic to me=slim.

[ZA Dater]

11 hours ago, FredEire said:

Yes and also you can have a 10/10 date, be all over them, they're all over you and then boom ghosted or receive a text saying they don't want to see you again.

And it's for all sorts of reasons, cold feet, not over ex, suddenly receiving a job offer etc, the list goes on. And it's a horrible feeling when you start to, as much as you know it's silly, imagine the white picket fence with someone and they're suddenly gone.

But that's what happens in dating, and it happens all the time. You have to be open to and accept/expect these experiences will happen before you meet someone who's mutually attracted and in it for the long haul.

That's what worries me a bit about you, you don't deal particularly well with rejection from people who have no interest in you, so how would you deal with rejection from someone who was interested and then isn't, or dumps you, or divorces you after a 10 year marriage. You might think it's all roses if you just experience a mutual attraction but it won't be, you will want more. And inevitably some of these situations won't work out.

I never imagine this because my experience is life it too short to look that far ahead. Nowhere in this entire thread have I mentioned long haul at all,  again life is too unpredictable to look that far ahead. My view on dating used to be long haul, married, kids but frankly I have missed the boat on those so now my view is very much medium term, share some great experiences, if it works out great and if not, well that is life but at least I have the good memories.

The reality is this thread is making me re assess what I actually want based on what I can apparently get and truthfully the two are so far apart at the moment I am leaning toward binning the entire idea. There are a few weeks to go and some close confidants to consult but based on what you all say there is very little upside for me based on what I can get versus what I like and that being the case my view is I'd rather just accept it and have nothing. 

[basil67]

16 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

No I have not seen her because she is busy, we do text from time to time (replies are generally slow but not short replies) and actually most of what we text about is personal life, she has been on crutches for a while due to a sport injury.

She was single at the end of last year, whether she still is I have no idea. 

Honestly I am mostly at the point of giving up on having any chance to date her.

Probably wise.  After all, we do make time for the things which are important to us

[ZA Dater]

13 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

There are ways you can date someone where there’s mutual attraction - but mutual attraction as we’ve said is fairly meaningless overall so most of the time there will be one date and that’s it. But here’s the advice:

1. Don’t swipe on every person on Tinder or Bumble. Only swipe on women that meet your minimum level of attraction. 
 

2. Be patient. If you only get 1 match for every 1000 swipes so be it. It might take months for that match to happen but just be patient and don’t take it personally.

 

3. If in your day to day life you do come across a woman you’re attracted to, ask for her phone number and/or out on a date early on. Make your romantic interest obvious. 

4. Don’t wait for “perfect”. If she meets your minimum attractiveness requirements and the conversation is good, that’s a prospect.

 

If you do those things, you’ll eventually get a date with someone you’re attracted to. And hopefully you’ll learn how meaningless it really is in the big picture. 

Exactly what I do, heck I have been lowering the standard for month already and still not getting any viable likes. My day to day life only sees me interacting with people who are not single so that is a non starter as for making interest obvious, apart from being kind and attentive, I have no idea how to do that.

Decided to delete all the dating apps, am done with them, tired of going round and round that hamster wheel.

The above made me think of something else which might be useful too.

 

[ZA Dater]

9 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Probably wise.  After all, we do make time for the things which are important to us

Just another nail in the lid really. I'll just try be her friend and regret I am not the sort of guy she wants to date, its not often I come across people I genuinely like and she is one of those but again life is not fair and we do not all get what we like.

What I will really regret though was not making a more decisive move at the event last year when her hand was all over my shoulder and arm. There is a price to pay for inexperience and I will keep paying it.

[FredEire]

18 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I never imagine this because my experience is life it too short to look that far ahead. Nowhere in this entire thread have I mentioned long haul at all,  again life is too unpredictable to look that far ahead. My view on dating used to be long haul, married, kids but frankly I have missed the boat on those so now my view is very much medium term, share some great experiences, if it works out great and if not, well that is life but at least I have the good memories.

The reality is this thread is making me re assess what I actually want based on what I can apparently get and truthfully the two are so far apart at the moment I am leaning toward binning the entire idea. There are a few weeks to go and some close confidants to consult but based on what you all say there is very little upside for me based on what I can get versus what I like and that being the case my view is I'd rather just accept it and have nothing. 

There are a few weeks to go, are you talking about turning 40? It doesn't have to be the death bell of your life 😂 But if you want to make it that way so be it.

One thing nobody has really mentioned is that you take yourself and life very very very seriously. If you want to make it a tragic melodrama by all means go for it, but it's going to drag you down and make you physically and mentally ill. Many people have a good time in life simply by laughing along and seeing the absurdity in it. It's something I've always struggled with especially in my emo younger years but I find life does go smoother when I'm not taking everything so seriously.

[ZA Dater]

28 minutes ago, FredEire said:

There are a few weeks to go, are you talking about turning 40? It doesn't have to be the death bell of your life 😂 But if you want to make it that way so be it.

One thing nobody has really mentioned is that you take yourself and life very very very seriously. If you want to make it a tragic melodrama by all means go for it, but it's going to drag you down and make you physically and mentally ill. Many people have a good time in life simply by laughing along and seeing the absurdity in it. It's something I've always struggled with especially in my emo younger years but I find life does go smoother when I'm not taking everything so seriously.

 I do take life seriously just the way I have always been. Yeah sure it just becomes more difficult to justify inexperience and heck maybe you are right, maybe I am better off avoiding dating completely. Its great fun to laugh along until the reality kicks in and that is not quite so funny or for me it is not funny.

Most of my life is centered around the needs of others so I can let that blur out my own life,  congratulate them when things go well, support them when things do not go well.

[Weezy1973]

51 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

…as for making interest obvious, apart from being kind and attentive, I have no idea how to do that.

I told you how right in the post you quoted. Ask them on a date.

[FredEire]

14 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

 I do take life seriously just the way I have always been. Yeah sure it just becomes more difficult to justify inexperience and heck maybe you are right, maybe I am better off avoiding dating completely. Its great fun to laugh along until the reality kicks in and that is not quite so funny or for me it is not funny.

Most of my life is centered around the needs of others so I can let that blur out my own life,  congratulate them when things go well, support them when things do not go well.

I'm a comedian in my spare time. I do it  because I take life too seriously, and it's a great therapy, it's a weight off my shoulders every time. Many comedians suffer from mental health problems

At the end of the day we're all born to die, that in itself is a tragedy. So we could all spend our time curled up in a ball rocking back and forward, or laugh at the absurdity of it all while we're here.

As Bill Hicks said life is a rollercoaster, it's a ride. We're not here forever, so what makes the most sense is to look around and take in the sights and sounds while we're here, and have some fun.

I also guarantee that nobody takes you as seriously as you do. Theres no need to put that much pressure on yourself.

[FredEire]

Also one of the qualities which is common in many guys punching above their weight is they are really funny. Being a good time and entertaining to be around is really really attractive, and the best thing is it's not dependent on how you look or how much money you have.

[ZA Dater]

1 minute ago, FredEire said:

Also one of the qualities which is common in many guys punching above their weight is they are really funny. Being a good time and entertaining to be around is really really attractive, and the best thing is it's not dependent on how you look or how much money you have.

Yeah well, no surprise I am never particularly enamored by those funny guys because its yet something else I cannot compete with but yes you are right I have seen how the combination of fun and funny seems to work quite well.

 

[ZA Dater]

5 minutes ago, FredEire said:

I'm a comedian in my spare time. I do it  because I take life too seriously, and it's a great therapy, it's a weight off my shoulders every time. Many comedians suffer from mental health problems

At the end of the day we're all born to die, that in itself is a tragedy. So we could all spend our time curled up in a ball rocking back and forward, or laugh at the absurdity of it all while we're here.

As Bill Hicks said life is a rollercoaster, it's a ride. We're not here forever, so what makes the most sense is to look around and take in the sights and sounds while we're here, and have some fun.

I also guarantee that nobody takes you as seriously as you do. Theres no need to put that much pressure on yourself.

I have never been one for humor unless its very dry, apparently I do have a dry sense of humor. As for life mine is so empty and lonely I might as well just sit back and watch it go by. Everything I aspire to is mostly impossible, the best I can get is living vicariously though others who actually have the sort of full lives I have never been able to find, each day I try but as has been the case with this latest interest, its never ever enough or what the person actually wants.

No, I think one of the life changes I am going to make is take off this mask where I pretend everything is ok and actually show that its not OK, though then I just get told "cheer up". Everyday I am reminded of the fragility of life and the shortness of time.

[basil67]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Just another nail in the lid really. I'll just try be her friend and regret I am not the sort of guy she wants to date, its not often I come across people I genuinely like and she is one of those but again life is not fair and we do not all get what we like.

It does not reflect well on you that you rarely meet people you genuinely like, and this lack of appreciation of what others have to offer will certainly get you started on the wrong foot in both love and friendship.   Sure, some people take longer to warm to than others, and there's a handful who are just obnoxious...but most are good people who are personable and kind.

And no, we don't magically all get the things we want.  Heck, my life certainly didn't turn out as I had planned, but do you hear me moaning about it? No.  I'd rather be happy with what I do have than be a misery guts who nobody wants to be friends with.

Quote

What I will really regret though was not making a more decisive move at the event last year when her hand was all over my shoulder and arm. There is a price to pay for inexperience and I will keep paying it.

Unless regret goes hand in hand with a learning experience, it is nothing more than self pity.  A complete waste of emotions, an excess of which will make you a very unattractive person.  So what did you learn from being too slow off the mark, and what will you do differently next time you meet someone who you get on well with and would like to date?

Also, this didn't go pear shaped because you have inexperience...it was because of a lack of resilience.   If inexperience was a justifiable reason to never try something new and scary (like asking someone out), the human race would have died out long ago.   That said, as you lack resilience, I would always advise only asking those who you've built a rapport with (even a brief chat in a lift would be sufficient).  Cold approaches are only for the guys who have supreme self confidence.

Edited April 8 by basil67

[Gebidozo]

40 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Yeah well, no surprise I am never particularly enamored by those funny guys because its yet something else I cannot compete with but yes you are right I have seen how the combination of fun and funny seems to work quite well.

 

See, you're envious again.

That's so off-puting. No wonder women don't like you. Envy is such an ugly thing, nobody is attracted to it in another person.

 

[FredEire]

36 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I have never been one for humor unless its very dry, apparently I do have a dry sense of humor. As for life mine is so empty and lonely I might as well just sit back and watch it go by. Everything I aspire to is mostly impossible, the best I can get is living vicariously though others who actually have the sort of full lives I have never been able to find, each day I try but as has been the case with this latest interest, its never ever enough or what the person actually wants.

No, I think one of the life changes I am going to make is take off this mask where I pretend everything is ok and actually show that its not OK, though then I just get told "cheer up". Everyday I am reminded of the fragility of life and the shortness of time.

I also have very dry humour. Some of us are more conscious of the darker side of life, usually through hard upbringings, which I have the impression you had.

However, people don't like constant reminders of how hard and miserable life can be, that's just the reality. If you are a dude with dark energy, that's just the reality of that. But you can choose to have a laugh at the darkness and lighten the mood, or wallow in it and repel the people around you. It's a choice at the end of the day.

Dark energy can actually come across as attractive and mysterious, but not if you choose to express it as self-pity.

[FredEire]

1 minute ago, Gebidozo said:

See, you're envious again.

That's so off-puting. No wonder women don't like you. Envy is such an ugly thing, nobody is attracted to it in another person.

 

Correct. People respond to the things you are. If you are empty vacuum of the things you are not but wish you were it's not going to attract anyone.

I think the takeaway of this herculean thread is that there's plenty of things OP is lacking that he can work on. Worrying about age/looks etc and things largely out of his control is pointless when there's so many things he could be doing and is not.

Deal with those first, if you still have no luck with dating worry about it then.

[basil67]

Interesting....  @FredEire and I both wrote about your evident and unattractive self pity at the same time.  If it's this obvious to us, it's going to be equally obvious to all around you.  Unless you change your outlook, it will remain a major road block to success. 

Edited April 8 by basil67

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

Also, this didn't go pear shaped because you have inexperience...it was because of a lack of resilience.   If inexperience was a justifiable reason to never try something new and scary (like asking someone out), the human race would have died out long ago.   That said, as you lack resilience, I would always advise only asking those who you've built a rapport with (even a brief chat in a lift would be sufficient).  Cold approaches are only for the guys who have supreme self confidence.

The only positive is she is still around, I am sure we will still communicate but I will always wonder...what if.

 

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, FredEire said:

Correct. People respond to the things you are. If you are empty vacuum of the things you are not but wish you were it's not going to attract anyone.

I think the takeaway of this herculean thread is that there's plenty of things OP is lacking that he can work on. Worrying about age/looks etc and things largely out of his control is pointless when there's so many things he could be doing and is not.

Deal with those first, if you still have no luck with dating worry about it then.

Honestly I think this thread has established I am a useless individual so I might as well just own that. Its always about what is lacking not what there actually is and that is why I am heavily leaning toward throwing the idea of dating away, perhaps I should have done this years ago, clearly there is nothing about me which is any good whatsoever and seeing as I am happy with who I am, I cannot see any tangible good reason to re invent myself then still be told "well what you like is not your level".

So fix one thing then another becomes a problem and so it goes on and on, trying to tailor myself to what I think people want, tried this once and wont be doing it again.

Put simply this cannot be fixed that much has been illustrated in this thread.

[FredEire]

36 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Honestly I think this thread has established I am a useless individual so I might as well just own that. Its always about what is lacking not what there actually is and that is why I am heavily leaning toward throwing the idea of dating away, perhaps I should have done this years ago, clearly there is nothing about me which is any good whatsoever and seeing as I am happy with who I am, I cannot see any tangible good reason to re invent myself then still be told "well what you like is not your level".

So fix one thing then another becomes a problem and so it goes on and on, trying to tailor myself to what I think people want, tried this once and wont be doing it again.

Put simply this cannot be fixed that much has been illustrated in this thread.

Frankly I think that's an insult to everyone who has corresponded with you over the last 30 odd pages as if we thought you were a useless individual we wouldn't bother. For that to be you conclusion it's disappointed.

As I've already said numerous times debasing yourself and basing all your actions on what you think other people want will never work. You need to envision how you can be a stronger man and what qualities to cultivate and people around you will respond to this better as a by-product.

[FredEire]

Also I think it may be a good idea to bin dating temporarily and focus purely on self-improvement. Maybe the period before your 40th birthday is a good benchmark.

As a businessman you know the importance of good use of time. All your energy mentally spent on dating seems to be agonising and beating yourself up with no actual dating, so it's a bad use of your time.

[ZA Dater]

6 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Frankly I think that's an insult to everyone who has corresponded with you over the last 30 odd pages as if we thought you were a useless individual we wouldn't bother. For that to be you conclusion it's disappointed.

As I've already said numerous times debasing yourself and basing all your actions on what you think other people want will never work. You need to envision how you can be a stronger man and what qualities to cultivate and people around you will respond to this better as a by-product.

I am strong just unattractive and bitter. Being the honest, kind, thoughtful, caring person has got me nowhere but I am quite happy to be that person even if nobody else values that person. The reality is I can do everything right and still get it wrong.

The more I read the more impossible it seems, the more inclined I am to take whatever good I can find and enjoy that for what it is. 

I see it this way

1: Find mutual attraction: about as likely a finding oil in my backyard

2: The need to see if I am compatible with that person

3: Do compromises needed to properly engage with the person

4: Be the kind caring thoughtful, generous person I know I am.

On the ladder I can do 4 pretty well but none of the other seems to work and logically I ask myself, is it really such a loss to choose a friendship over all of this? Its probably why when I am rejected over and over again my friends comment is "just be her friend", maybe he can see I am unsuitable for anything more.

[Weezy1973]

4 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

I told you how right in the post you quoted. Ask them on a date.

Interesting that you ignore this. 
 

I’m going to try one more attempt  at suggesting therapy. Specifically Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). If you seek a therapist that practices CBT and in you first appointment tell them you have a fear of rejection and can’t ask women you’re attracted to out on dates, they’ll be able to treat that. It’s a form of social anxiety. And CBT is about the least “touchy-feely” therapy out there. It’s very logical and practical. 

[Gebidozo]

4 hours ago, basil67 said:

Interesting....  @FredEire and I both wrote about your evident and unattractive self pity at the same time.  If it's this obvious to us, it's going to be equally obvious to all around you.  Unless you change your outlook, it will remain a major road block to success. 

It’s extremely obvious to everyone, but the OP’s problem is that he doesn’t even admit he’s wallowing in self pity.

He thinks he is being all stoic, humbly accepting his own lack of attractiveness and magnanimously forgiving women for dating more attractive guys. In reality, he’s mad at those women, envious of those men, and sees himself as a victim of a cruel, shallow “society” that mercilessly oppresses deep and selfless people like himself.