Perspective

[Weezy1973]

1 minute ago, ZA Dater said:

That's fine, it gets me the odd person to go to events and have coffee with.

If this is the high watermark for you in terms of connecting with people, you sure don’t aspire for much of anything meaningful. 

[Gebidozo]

28 minutes ago, FredEire said:

It seems like what he wants is not for us to give him insights but for him to convince us that his worldview is correct and make him feel better by agreeing that he is not enough and the awful unappreciative women he wants to date just don't care about all the good qualities he lists out about himself.

Of course. I’ve always said that. Deep down, he knows that his views suck, but he is neither honest nor strong enough to admit it and start changing them. So instead he just seeks confirmation for them. But LS is the wrong place for that. He’ll have better luck on incel or “men’s movement” forums or some such crappy place.

[ZA Dater]

27 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Yes, he is perfectly entitled to his opinion, of course.

But LS is a place to come for other viewpoints on relationship affairs when your own opinions and approaches have not worked out for you. It is a place where you can get other people's takes, and see if you might make some useful changes based on them.

Instead OP here is in a Mexican standoff with everyone here. He lets our opinions go in one ear and out the other while refusing to budge an inch on his approach which, by his own admission, have only brought him misery and loneliness.

It seems like what he wants is not for us to give him insights but for him to convince us that his worldview is correct and make him feel better by agreeing that he is not enough and the awful unappreciative women he wants to date just don't care about all the good qualities he lists out about himself.

Which is massively egotistical, as well as a huge waste of time.

 

Useful changes....my world view has not been proven to be wrong at all. Superficial attributes will always matter, there is no question that is true. 

No, there is nothing wrong with my approach, what's being silently and not so silently advocated is a drop in standards and a fundamental change in likes and I see absolutely no benefit of doing either. 

Deleted all dating profiles and felt pretty good about doing that.

 

[FredEire]

1 minute ago, Gebidozo said:

Of course. I’ve always said that. Deep down, he knows that his views suck, but he is neither honest nor strong enough to admit it and start changing them. So instead he just seeks confirmation for them. But LS is the wrong place for that. He’ll have better luck on incel or “men’s movement” forums or some such crappy place.

He wants the world to get in line with his views instead of change to be on the same wavelengths as others. There's posts that suggest he takes pride in this as a kind of rebellion but at the same time can't deal with the crippling loneliness this brings.

[Gebidozo]

5 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

That's fine

If that’s fine, why have you been posting 40 pages worth of repetitive, excruciatingly boring, and at times frankly repulsive complaints?

Where is your last shred of honesty? At least have the balls to say, “Yeah, my views haven’t gotten me anywhere, but I ain’t changing them, I’m stubborn that way, sorry guys, I won’t bother you again with pointless complaints”.

[ZA Dater]

4 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

If this is the high watermark for you in terms of connecting with people, you sure don’t aspire for much of anything meaningful. 

It is yea because it's the best I can do in terms of people I find attractive and enjoy spending time with. They aren't interested in anything else 

[Gebidozo]

1 minute ago, ZA Dater said:

my world view has not been proven to be wrong at all. Superficial attributes will always matter, there is no question that is true. 

Your worldview has been repeatedly proven dead wrong by everyone on this site.

Superficial attributes may matter or not, but they have nothing to do with your case. You aren’t superficially unattractive. You are quite fundamentally unattractive. Because of your worldview. Worldview is not a superficial attribute, and your worldview sucks donkey butt.

Pardon my French. You’re really infuriating. If you were my friend, I’d just smack you.

 

[ZA Dater]

8 minutes ago, FredEire said:

He wants the world to get in line with his views instead of change to be on the same wavelengths as others. There's posts that suggest he takes pride in this as a kind of rebellion but at the same time can't deal with the crippling loneliness this brings.

The best tonic to being lonely is simply not caring, I'd forgotten that but the later posts here have reminded me so thank you.

Again flip dating is so perfect any other alternative is nonsense, there would be no nonsense extremists groups if everything apparently worked so well. Nor would people be cheating on the "loves of their life" if everything is so wonderfully perfect. 

Just like I can't date people I find attractive you can't tell me dating works well for everyone.

Edited April 9, 2024 by ZA Dater

[ZA Dater]

1 minute ago, Gebidozo said:

Your worldview has been repeatedly proven dead wrong by everyone on this site.

Superficial attributes may matter or not, but they have nothing to do with your case. You aren’t superficially unattractive. You are quite fundamentally unattractive. Because of your worldview. Worldview is not a superficial attribute, and your worldview sucks donkey butt.

Pardon my French. You’re really infuriating. If you were my friend, I’d just smack you.

 

Walk into any social place and they matter without question. I don't care if I am fundamentally unattractive, I couldn't care less. I'll be alone irrespective so it makes no difference to me. 

Much like another stupid debate with a friend where once again I must over compromise for someone I really have no interest in. Told him to go find someone else to set up 

[Gaeta]

8 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

It is yea because it's the best I can do in terms of people I find attractive and enjoy spending time with. They aren't interested in anything else 

Well...everything in life is about our level of motivation. You are not motivated enough, you don't want it bad enough to be looking outside the box. You will grow old and alone. The beautiful ladies aren't interested in you at 40, imagine how uninterested in you  they'll be when you're 50,60,70. 

I imagine you becoming like these life-long single old men still drooling over much younger women. I doubt when you're 60 you find 60 yo women attractive. Nope. 

It's time for you to change while you're 40. Another 5-10 years and your view will make you a very creepy man no women want to be around.

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

The best tonic to being lonely is simply not caring

The best tonic for loneliness is to genuinely and sincerely try to connect with people - without any agenda whatsoever. Be it an act of service, or connecting over shared interests, or forming a new friendship. Unfortunately, you struggle to do this because in order to connect with people you will have to change your rigid ideology and adopt a more flexible, adaptable, and humble approach to relationships. You’ve said time and time again that you refuse to do this - thus, you are very lonely and trying unsuccessfully to convince yourself and others that this is simply your lot in life. Not one single person here has agreed with your assertion. 

Edited April 9, 2024 by BaileyB

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

The best tonic to being lonely is simply not caring,

First question - do you realize you’re on this loop? Simply not caring is a “solution” you’ve tried many times in the past and it doesn’t work. Mostly because humans are fundamentally social animals and were built to connect. 
 

You always loop around to this “not caring” solution and it doesn’t work for you. The loneliness, and feelings of low or no self worthy rear their heads and you venture back to online dating and the cycle begins again. It’s been the exact same for the past decade (at least). 
 

Everything you’re doing isn’t working for you, yet you steadfastly refuse to work on anything to improve. At some point you’ll hit rock bottom and hopefully, finally you’ll seek help. 

[FredEire]

17 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

First question - do you realize you’re on this loop? Simply not caring is a “solution” you’ve tried many times in the past and it doesn’t work. Mostly because humans are fundamentally social animals and were built to connect. 
 

You always loop around to this “not caring” solution and it doesn’t work for you. The loneliness, and feelings of low or no self worthy rear their heads and you venture back to online dating and the cycle begins again. It’s been the exact same for the past decade (at least). 
 

Everything you’re doing isn’t working for you, yet you steadfastly refuse to work on anything to improve. At some point you’ll hit rock bottom and hopefully, finally you’ll seek help. 

Agree, it doesn't work because we would not be 40 pages in if simply not caring was the solution or he was capable of that.

Maybe another thing the OP can try to do is practice non-judgement. Interact with those around you in a way that feels natural, ignoring any of the thoughts and feelings that come into your head and not letting them influence your behaviour.

For influence if you feel like asking a woman out, do it. Don't listen to the voices in your head saying that she may reject you and you have to instead invite her to a business outing with 20 other people to gauge her interest.

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, Gaeta said:

Well...everything in life is about our level of motivation. You are not motivated enough, you don't want it bad enough to be looking outside the box. You will grow old and alone. The beautiful ladies aren't interested in you at 40, imagine how uninterested in you  they'll be when you're 50,60,70. 

I imagine you becoming like these life-long single old men still drooling over much younger women. I doubt when you're 60 you find 60 yo women attractive. Nope. 

It's time for you to change while you're 40. Another 5-10 years and your view will make you a very creepy man no women want to be around.

Put yourself in my shoes, how motivated would you be? Oh and let me guess looking outside the box would mean "well you know she might not be very attractive but she is sweet", no thanks. Frankly nobody I was ever interested in has been interested in me, I do not foresee that changing ever. 

Change to what, nobody can tell me this in a way which does not involve settling in some way or other. or the above which I have mentioned. As I say my level of care is at an all time low and I must admit this is not a terrible place to be.

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, BaileyB said:

The best tonic for loneliness is to genuinely and sincerely try to connect with people - without any agenda whatsoever. Be it an act of service, or connecting over shared interests, or forming a new friendship. Unfortunately, you struggle to do this because in order to connect with people you will have to change your rigid ideology and adopt a more flexible, adaptable, and humble approach to relationships. You’ve said time and time again that you refuse to do this - thus, you are very lonely and trying unsuccessfully to convince yourself and others that this is simply your lot in life. Not one single person here has agreed with your assertion. 

In other words settle for what I absolutely do not want. I get more of what I actually want with these friend zone interactions than I do attempting to date people who do not interest me in the slightest. I am tired of going on dates with people who communicate poorly, lack intellect, lack general knowledge and with whom it is almost impossible to engage, then I need to sit and hear about how bad their kids father is or how bad their job is. Very generally this sums most of the dates I have been on, and yes LOTS were with single mothers.

Flip I once went on a date with someone who simply would not communicate in any other fashion but one word answers, another thought it was a good idea to give me a sermon and then wanted to do all sort of sins with me with after the date (I declined), another told me she thought it would be fun to work a street corner before inviting me to her sons birthday party the next day (I did not go), another arrived telling me she had not seen her bf for 9 months and did not date, then made clear advances after the date which I declined. Another sat down and got up to go to the restroom and never returned, another had lunch and I thought the date went well, only to get text telling me she saw in minute one it would not work. Another tried to buy me gifts to impress me. More than a few did not arrive. Another arrived tipsy and left very drunk after being all over me.

Note how few good experience there are? NONE were pleasant at all, yet I co live with a model who would never see me as a date which is fine and I get good engaging conversation, someone who takes some sort of interest in me. Take K, we went to events of four years together and again I had someone who engaged with me and took some interest in me. Take this latest latest, the best conversations I have had in years have been with her, engaging, warm, kind and a great communicator. There have been other people like this too, even one conversation is a good one versus trying to adapt to people of OLD.

Do you blame me for rather looking at this hybrid friend type relationship, yes they wont date me and that hurts but there is a lot more I find attractive in those interactions, these people get me, I do not need to explain myself to them and it just works.  Further do you really blame me for lacking any sort of dating motivation based on the experiences I have had.

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

First question - do you realize you’re on this loop? Simply not caring is a “solution” you’ve tried many times in the past and it doesn’t work. Mostly because humans are fundamentally social animals and were built to connect. 
 

You always loop around to this “not caring” solution and it doesn’t work for you. The loneliness, and feelings of low or no self worthy rear their heads and you venture back to online dating and the cycle begins again. It’s been the exact same for the past decade (at least). 
 

Everything you’re doing isn’t working for you, yet you steadfastly refuse to work on anything to improve. At some point you’ll hit rock bottom and hopefully, finally you’ll seek help. 

Trust me I can force myself to not care and that is a very powerful emotion, instead of running myself into the ground, I can work around simply knowing there is nobody on OLD who will date me and equally very few which appeal to me. Absolutely nothing in life has been easy for me and I have had to cut people off, give up on dreams and go through various forms of hell for years at a time so yes I can absolutely cut this idea off completely, what I wanted to do was explore all possibilities before doing so but honestly there is no purpose in playing this game, it gets me nowhere, ultimately nobody around me cares whether I date, whether I am lonely, whether I do not date. 

If I could say "sure that was really good, I fell in love with her, it did not work because I made that mistake, we shared that and enjoyed this" I'd say cool, lets keep trying but realistically I am never ever going to get to that point, just like millions of others do not either. There is nothing to suggest I am ever going to be what people I like want and more than that there is nothing to suggest I am getting any better or finding people I truly relate to and who relate to me. 

Make no mistake I appreciate the kick in the head I get by some in this thread, clearly people who do not know me do care to some degree and that is humbling. The pressure on me to date is overwhelming, everyone around me is in relationships or married, some have kids (what a blessing they are) and I am the odd one out, that is hard to live with. 

For me improving is not defined by changing what I like. I do think this latest set back has been the straw that has broken the camels back and this has been years coming, I always knew I'd one day meet someone who really captivated me and I guess I should be thankful I did meet that person.

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, FredEire said:

Agree, it doesn't work because we would not be 40 pages in if simply not caring was the solution or he was capable of that.

Maybe another thing the OP can try to do is practice non-judgement. Interact with those around you in a way that feels natural, ignoring any of the thoughts and feelings that come into your head and not letting them influence your behaviour.

For influence if you feel like asking a woman out, do it. Don't listen to the voices in your head saying that she may reject you and you have to instead invite her to a business outing with 20 other people to gauge her interest.

Why should I not judge when I am judged constantly? Mostly judged because I am always single, never have anyone and as I get teased "never gets laid". The problem is when I do interact in ways that feel natural with me its about current affairs, politics and business and those pretty much run the conversation which is fine if the other person is can talk on those topics but unfortunately few people I seem to meet are so when I meet someone who is, who communicates well, really engages, has opinions and ideas and then the topics become more personal things just seem to work because there is a base. 

The bold is almost impossible to do because 20 odd year of rejection is a heavy weight to carry.

[FredEire]

15 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Why should I not judge when I am judged constantly? Mostly judged because I am always single, never have anyone and as I get teased "never gets laid". The problem is when I do interact in ways that feel natural with me its about current affairs, politics and business and those pretty much run the conversation which is fine if the other person is can talk on those topics but unfortunately few people I seem to meet are so when I meet someone who is, who communicates well, really engages, has opinions and ideas and then the topics become more personal things just seem to work because there is a base. 

The bold is almost impossible to do because 20 odd year of rejection is a heavy weight to carry.

Because judging people is bad for the soul, negative and useless. How other people judge you really shouldn't be paid any mind.

But don't worry, you've laid out perfectly for me why you are a hapless victim who is unable to change. Enjoy being nailed up on that cross, hope it doesn't get too chilly up there.

[basil67]

7 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Well being honest is quite a good trait, I call things as I see them. Suddenly its a crime to have standards, OK, that is interesting but thanks nonetheless. Suddenly its wrong to not like particular people, again I have no problem not being liked much like I see no problem in not liking funny guys. Equally I do not like apathetic people who know nothing about the world around them. You forget while I can give it, I can certainly take all manner of insults, there are some in this very thread, I could not give a continental.

You right I judge.......and so does everyone else!

It's fine to judge and dislike apathetic people and other particular people. And it's fine to be open and honest about it. Absolutely your prerogative.   

But to turn around and say that you're a kind and caring person is the very antithesis of your attitude.  Do you know something which genuinely kind people do? They withhold judgement and find goodness in even the ones who are hard to like.  

 

[Weezy1973]

Basically what you’re describing on the online dates are dates where there wasn’t any chemistry. And that’s extremely normal for online dating. What isn’t normal is how big a disaster those dates are in your mind (hint: therapy could help with that). And then your insistence on disparaging the women you went on dates with, which is completely unnecessary. Just because they’re not a match for you, doesn’t make them lesser human beings. 
 

Online dating for the most part is going out on dates with people that aren’t a match. That’s the bulk of it. And once in a while, you get a date with someone that  is a match. And often that doesn’t work out either. It is what it is. But acceptance of that reality instead of fighting it will make you a happier person.

[FredEire]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

It's fine to judge and dislike apathetic people and other particular people. And it's fine to be open and honest about it. Absolutely your prerogative.   

But to turn around and say that you're a kind and caring person is the very antithesis of your attitude.  Do you know something which genuinely kind people do? They withhold judgement and find goodness in even the ones who are hard to like.  

 

OP doesn't seem to like people and finds them a hassle. It seems like he just wants to get what he requires from them, input the right social algorithm to get a good reaction be it a laugh, a social connection, sex etc.

One example is how he seems to find going on a date with a woman he doesn't find attractive as a fate worse than death. I've gone on several dates over the years where I met a girl, knew pretty quickly I wasn't interested but we had fun, a good laugh and although I knew I wouldn't see them again at least romantically I went home feeling it was a night well spent. There was one recently where after a few minutes I found out the girl was gay and there had obviously been a misunderstanding on my end. But no problem, se was cool we talked for a couple of hours and had some drinks and it was fun. I feel like OP might just turn up say "no thanks" and unceremoniously walk out the door.

And before you say I'm advising you to date people you don't like, obviously the aim is to date people you like. My point is it's not always as much of an awful fate to socially meet up with someone you're not interested in romantically as you portray it to be.

[FredEire]

3 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Basically what you’re describing on the online dates are dates where there wasn’t any chemistry. And that’s extremely normal for online dating. What isn’t normal is how big a disaster those dates are in your mind (hint: therapy could help with that). And then your insistence on disparaging the women you went on dates with, which is completely unnecessary. Just because they’re not a match for you, doesn’t make them lesser human beings. 
 

Online dating for the most part is going out on dates with people that aren’t a match. That’s the bulk of it. And once in a while, you get a date with someone that  is a match. And often that doesn’t work out either. It is what it is. But acceptance of that reality instead of fighting it will make you a happier person.

He's now listed a number of examples of women who were interested in him in some way. That should be a confidence booster and proof that the "sexual marketplace" has not completely abandoned him, but instead only the beautiful unobtainable women count and the women he isn't attracted to are almost subhuman in comparison.

[Foxhall]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Do you blame me for rather looking at this hybrid friend type relationship, yes they wont date me and that hurts but there is a lot more I find attractive in those interactions, these people get me, I do not need to explain myself to them and it just works.

Well I suppose that is something- at least you know you are able to connect with certain ladies-  the old backdoor entry as they say- maybe some day they might just see you in a "more than just friends light",

right time right place and all that,

but Id tend to agree on that if your getting an enjoyable conversation and feeling boosted by it-  and your feeling an attraction- well that is a positive,

 

 

 

[FredEire]

13 minutes ago, Foxhall said:

Well I suppose that is something- at least you know you are able to connect with certain ladies-  the old backdoor entry as they say- maybe some day they might just see you in a "more than just friends light",

right time right place and all that,

but Id tend to agree on that if your getting an enjoyable conversation and feeling boosted by it-  and your feeling an attraction- well that is a positive,

 

 

 

The issue is if someone he doesn't fancy likes him, it seems to make him feel like dirt.

I've dated and slept with women who were both very attractive and very unattractive, and once you get past the masturbatory physical fantasy of putting certain women on a pedestal, you realise there isn't really much difference in the experience, we're all people and the same things make us tick.

It should be a compliment and a confidence booster if anyone finds you attractive enough to pursue you, not an insult. Even the odd time gay men have chatted me up although I'm not that way inclined, I appreciated the flattery.

Edited April 9, 2024 by FredEire

[ZA Dater]

6 hours ago, FredEire said:

The issue is if someone he doesn't fancy likes him, it seems to make him feel like dirt.

It should be a compliment and a confidence booster if anyone finds you attractive enough to pursue you, not an insult. Even the odd time gay men have chatted me up although I'm not that way inclined, I appreciated the flattery.

Absolutely disagree..if I am never found attractive by people I find attractive all it shows me is what my general attraction level is.

Attention for attention sake is to me irrelevant.